312

Has anyone checked out club ISIS which I believe opened in the old Mercury Room location? It's at Main@Prairie close to Byrds store.

That was a large and really cool space...

I wanted to comment on so much more, but walls of text are hard to navigate. this was the main comment I wanted to address.

head to the med center area, plenty of cranes over there too.

I'm sorry but I wasn't including hospitals expanding...

Anyone else gets this logic? .... But this is exactly the irrational reasoning Anti-Rail folks have been saying for this past decade. I have lived in this area before and after rail and visited many a establishments before and after. Light rail has no real correlation to them. There are way too many other factors that contributed to the pre-rail fall, post-rail rise & fall, and now rise of downtown establishments.

Same thing applies to all the other rail lines including the Richmond line.

No offense, but I was not and am not anti-rail. Looking back I may have been if I knew the impact was going to be so lasting. There was a lot of fall out due to rail construction especially along Main Street. Light rail certainly had an negative impact during construction per the tenants and landlords that were impacted by it downtown. I get tired of hearing all of these factors with regard to downtown which seem to be created by groups whos interests really kind of seem self-serving and the restrictions imposed instead of striving to make downtown a friendly environment for all business that have an interest in opening within the area. Leasing space has always been for the most part a first come first serve type of situation and restrictions hinder its growth. I look at the 300 block of Main which seems to be the best performing block in downtown in terms of the amount of restaurants and bars located all on the same block, but yet you don't hear anything about it ? I read that this area has 9000 employeess located within the court buildings. Compare the daytime employment demographics of blocks downtown to new projects located next to the convention center and determine what section has better demographics, more restaurants/bars/cafes clustered together,and higher liquor sales. How can this be intentionally ignored. It seems that there has been an effort to extinguish this area (Market Square) of downtown as being the section of town known for bars,restaurants,entertainment, and games. It has been re-named the "historic district", instead of giving it a name that relates to the area, like the entertainment district. Also, Market Square is the name of this area. Why do we need to try to carbon copy areas be naming an area of downtown "Main Street Square" also ? Main Street is a street. Why do we have statues erected for "Market Square" located on Main Street within the "Main Street Square " area instead of on display in Market Square ? How confusing ? Perhaps that is the intent. It's almost as silly as having to fly to France and having to go to the Louvre to see statues from Greece. It seems that it is done to intentionally confuse those who aren't familiar with downtown's origin. I hear people say that the residential base needs to increase for retail to make it downtown. Really ? I have always felt that Midtown has a lot of downtowns workforce as it is downtown's neighborhood. Light rail pushed a lot of business to Midtown and Midtown grew as I see it substantially due to lightrail construction downtown. I think more people don't live downtown because in short it is expensive. If you speak with apt. property managers in Midtown I believe that they will tell you that most of their apts. are occupied by 2-3 people living in tight quarters, because it makes it affordable. If we could acknowledge that this residential base in Midtown is a major contributing factor and that not only are there 140,000 people that work downtown daily but a great amount that live in downtown/Midtown and have people make an effort to get that information out then downtown might not have such a perceived problem and need for groups. Downtown by design was made to accomodate commercial demand anyway, and commercial opportunities shouldn't be pushed away for the lack of being able to explain this relationship to Midtown(downtowns neighborhood) to potential retailers considering the area, in addition to pushing it towards coh funded projects to boost convention business. I like Midtown, but it is not a CBD...I believe that as someone else already stated in this forum(sorry,can't remember who) that downtown is the only part of town with so many cranes due to new construction if not the only area in Houston undergoing construction of buildings. How can it be doing so poorly when we have so much optimism about office space that new buildings are being constructed with the economy in the state it is. Why do we have to divide downtown up into so many different sections anyway ? Why not have 1 downtown and promote the area as a whole instead of as an incubator strictly for convention business tourists ? Again, I am going to have to say that I think light rail was a problem during construction, and that it being completed is going to have to be a positive but have also realized that so much more could be done by those who are supposed to promote the area to support the entire area, but then there might need be so much of a perceived need for these types anymore because I really think the area stands a good chance of doing better without all the limiting restrictions and money spent to confuse people over making downtown an area for all of Houston to enjoy.

I couldn't get the text file to download right but here are all of the tax files available:

http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/taxfiles.html

Remember to divide the amts. by app. (.14)

Per T.A.B.C. "The ABC" (ha-ha) Over: $212,000./month in sales...

"Mixed Beverage Tax Receipts: 12-28 attached."

Find your favorite location downtown and then compare it to the rest of downtown.

Then, compare downtown places to other locations in different parts of the city.

If you are in business to make money how can being located at street level in downtown (if you are going to be downtown anyway),not be the place to be- all things considered.

bev12-28.txt

Total Amount–$1,900.35

Showing 79 transactions

after 11/18/2008 matching Flying Saucer

Looks like FS is doing okay in liquor sales. Thanks mint.com for reminding me what a lush I am.

Per T.A.B.C. "The ABC" (ha-ha) Over: $212,000./month in sales...

oh man, I'm afraid to post in this thread. hahaha

I prefer to use the connotative definition of ghetto rather than the denotative definition, since it is so limited in use. maybe it is the time in which I grew up, but the word seems to have shifted definition from that which is described in the dictionary, to be more of a description of something that just generally sucks.

That place is ghetto.

That dudes car is ghetto.

The problem is though, that outside of people that use the word with the understanding of that connotative meaning it can be construed as being a racist comment, and certainly in the context of how it was written above, it sure does look pretty bad.

Anyway, downtown's club scene has come a long (very long way) from the days when I remember ecstasy rings, real all night raves, drug busts, most of them were around the Franklin (wasn't Spy one of the ones shut down?) area.

I think the downtown area has come a long way and has not gone backwards, but is continuing to move forward. The area around Market Square, the area around HP, around the ballpark. Downtown is a great place, but parking does suck (although it is not ghetto ).

I agree with you. I hope that we can possibly agree that everyone has differences and that those differences can be considered or viewed as a positive and it should be expected in an area with so many people. I also believe it would go a long way for people to know about the demographics of the area, specifically near the courthouses in Old Market Square because it doesn't seem that the information about the demographics especially in this area gets out. The county employees 16,000 people (per their website) and at least 9,000 of them are employed by the courts in and around Old Market Square if not more because of the way the figures are broken down. Which means that a lot of them are actually down here on a daily basis and not just during a basketball game, not to mention that a baseball game has higher attendance and more games in the course of a year. The demographics in Old Market Square are comparable to other areas of downtown even the HP areas, if not better. Also believe that in looking at liquor sales on the street, and factoring that in especially "F. Scr" (downtown location) for example that street level retail is a great opportunity for businesses entering downtown, along with the strong retail density that is already in place in the vecinity of Old Market Square and Main Street. F.S. has higher liquor sales located at street level than most businesses not only in downtown but even other areas of the city, especially when factoring the size and market rents on the street! A business can pay a lot more but why pay higher rent when you can pay lower rent right on the street and have exposure, signage, comparable if not better demograhics, and where people can actually frequent your establishment on a regular basis that either live in the area or that actually live in the city , and maybe not just during a convention or if they are a tourist from out of town. California has 2nd level and 3rd level retail but I'm not a fan of it in Houston and especially without or with limited signage.I believe being located on street retail is more desireable, where there is signage and exposure, at a better value. MOST importantly why wouldn't those businesses want to locate on street level and potentially have higher liquor sales pound for pound, especially now that light rail is completed.

Are office rents quoted on an annual per square ft basis? Is this just because there's more flexibility in purchase sizes going on than for the kind of apartment we talk about in monthly terms?

Skimming an article from the height of the Manhattan Imaginary-Future-Value Decade, I see,

"...the Seagram Building. 'It’s such a beautiful building,' Mr. Durst said, 'and those rents that people are willing to pay to go there!'

...impresses landlords in two ways: It’s absolutely the hallmark to any portfolio, and it’s a huge moneymaker, with eager tenants dropping well over $100 per square foot... It’s a bit less than 800,000 square feet, so the Seagram is the only site on the list that wouldn’t clear $2 billion. It is a building however, that would probably clear $2,000 per square foot."

My puzzlement is that if one could gross (800K*100+) and net fifty million or more every month, then even a multibillion-dollar building would be minting money inside of five years and it would be worth a much larger multiple of the monthly rate (than this, above) to prospective owners who bid. If it is a yearly rate, then it makes more sense.

The rates can be quoted monthly, or annually. The N.O.I. is going to be a huge factor in determining a sales price for a investor in an income producing building. Longer term leases in commercial typically increase the value of a building. Short term leases typically (in my opinion less than 3 years) don't really add any value. Apts. are a different animal and the rates take into consideration a tenant roll with frequent rollover. In a strong market I typically see base rental rates and NNN's separated in class "A" product and new buildings. Some landlords may prefer using C.P.I. In a weaker market I see more class "A" quoted on a full service/gross basis. Every landlord is different and as a result you will probably find several different variations of how a lease is stuctured and the variation will differ more when considering industrial space or retail space as well. I hope this helps.

I spoke with a person yesterday that told me that NNks and Ktz were competing for the same space in M.Square Park.I was told that the space in the park was app. 400 SF and that this person actually made the decision to select one of these concepts. Learning of Ktz interest in the downtown area it sounded like a good idea to explore this further especially since 312 has a grease trap already w/ a starting rate of .50/SF/NNN being offered at 312. So,I asked the person who I was speaking with for the contact information for Ktz so that I could contact Ktz to see if there was potentially any interest in 312. I was told by this person that they didn't have the contact information, and couldn't even recall the name of the contact person.

i'm not talking in the area of the sinkhole. i'm talking farther south.

Eminent domain came to mind after reading Governor Aggie's very interesting point regarding streets/areas being let go due to L-Rail.

Businesses (i.e. street level retail) are already "creeping back" into downtown because of increased interest and demand. I think the first rail lines will aid that process, but we may not see a total rejuvenation until the full system is completed and operational. Once that happens, downtown goes from being a stop on the rail system to being a hub of the system. I say a hub instead of the hub, b/c most of the traffic will be at Wheeler station as the Red Line and the U-line will be the most used. IMO, Lower Midtown will be the main focal point once the system is built, followed by downtown.

Light rail construction seems like it took around 3 years to complete and then it seems that it took another 2 years or more for people to finally realize that it was completed, especially for those who didn't frequent the downtown area. I remember people mentioning light rail construction and the congestion it caused well after it was completed. So, I do agree that we probably have already noticed business creeping back into downtown, but think that during or shortly prior to expansion downtown might see a "spike" in activity from businesses potentially interested in the area as well.

I think that this historic park is very important to the city and I think it deserves to be recognized for it's historical importance as being where the city originally began. The clock located within the clock tower(correction) 301 Travis (the corner of Congress/Travis) was originally on the courthouse built on this location. I heard that it some how lost and later recovered from a fire dept. that some how ended up having it at their location. I believe that this area should have something that makes it really stand out and distinguished and am not sure what would do this, but felt like something along the lines of some type of tall monument which would remain lit at night that branded the location would be really neat. Maybe this is corny, but perhaps a torch light which stood for the spark that started the city's beginning.

Saw this cool picture of the clock (housed in the and clock tower)on the home page of Houston Architecture today. I heard that the clock was originally located in Market Square Park.

Here is the link: http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/Building/2248/Market_Square_Clock_Tower.php

Prior to light-rail construction Downtown seemed "hotter than a two dollar pistol" to me. During light rail construction it seemed to drive and benefit business in Midtown and other areas. I have a feeling that as light rail expands into new areas of the city that downtown will perhaps have some of the same business driven back into the area that was driven out of the area during light rail construction. Are/Will businesses located in other areas of the city that are anticipating and preparing for the impact of light rail construction on their area consider moving/moving back into downtown as a good long term solution to the pending construction problems they might be facing?

Yes, in the tunnels. Specifically, under the Reliant building. Weekdays, business hours.

I was aware of this, but still believe Whataburger could still do well at street level. I'm not sure though if the proximity to the other location would be an issue.

What are you talking about? The event will be in January, not July.

Further, while Boston and NY are clearly more known for their marathons, Houston's is plenty-well known in the marathon world. And Houston has PLENTY of experience hosting large events, easily the match of Boston. (and let's be serious, in the universe of "large" events, the Olympic marathon trials would not rank very high.)

I like the idea. It would be neat to have it in Houston along with whatever else we can eventually land. I think either way it wouldn't hurt to have it under our Houston's belt in attracting more events to the city.

There's also some kind of Seafood and Sandwich place or something coming in the old Quizno's slot (500 block).

I believe that I might know which one you are talking about it. I think it has a large red and white banner in the window. ..The Shay Mcelroy construction also on the 500 block of Main Street looks fantastic. They really did an awesome job !!

Agree on the memorial bit. Niko Nikos is brilliant. It's about time they expanded. I just hope they can stay in business at that location. It seems a lot of food joints have come and gone on Market Square.

I think that this historic park is very important to the city and I think it deserves to be recognized for it's historical importance as being where the city originally began. The bell tower that is at the corner of Congress/Travis was originally on the courthouse built on this location. I heard that it some how lost and later recovered from a fire dept. that some how ended up having it at their location. I believe that this area should have something that makes it really stand out and distinguished and am not sure what would do this, but felt like something along the lines of some type of tall monument which would remain lit at night that branded the location would be really neat. Maybe this is corny, but perhaps a torch light which stood for the spark that started the city's beginning.

wow that's awesome... thanks 312!!! I have a rehearsal in downtown late Saturday night... I'll be sure to tell people about Nit Noi!!!!

BTW... restaurants for downtown. We need more "chain places" in downtown too! A Freebirds, Taco Cabana (don't understand why this hasn't happen yet) and some other places that can immediately help to stir late night and weekend culture. Mongolian BBQ joints are always a plus for me too.

I agree with you that some more "chain places" with name recognition at street level would be awesome. Especially, types like the ones you have mentioned that are fun to visit. Burger King as you probably know used to be located next door to Nit Noi, and am not sure why they closed that location. It would be nice to have another chain type of option other than only Subway across the street like Mc Donalds or Whataburger that might offer another reasonably priced breakfast option or even a Denny's.

Kylejack and Redscare: I appreciate your input. I figured that BBQ would be a good business downtown because it appeals to a lot of people and figured it would be great to have a place for lunch or the late night crowd frequenting the bars. I think Phili sandwiches would do well also, very unique. I have heard that on the weekends there are limited places to eat in downtown and that people end up driving either to Mai's or to Katz in the montrose area. Del Rey and Frank's pizza are apparently the only operators open late night and have heard that they have a line so long it requires a police officer to monitor it. In speaking to Nit Noi it is my understanding that this weekend they are going to start staying open late night to acommodate the crowd. I believe they will stay open until 3 am.

Speaking of this block, Cava Bistro recently had a small budget movie shot in it and I got to be an extra. Its called Playing House and its currently in post-production. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1529564/

I would like to ask the HAIF members what kind of restaurant or bar would be a fit for the "The Hub" building and that would compliment this block ? I think that a BBQ restaurant, Chinese Buffet or restaurant with crawfish might do well here. I look forward to hearing your suggestions.

Here is a picture of the exterior (bottom of page):

http://www.hsacq.com/312-main-street-downtown-houston-texas

I hope that once the dust settles that it won't be forgotten and that it gets promoted as much as Discovery Green.

Here is a photo of the "the hat".

Is that the old Burgheim's Drug Store? If so, it was an icon when I worked downtown in the 70's-80's and 90's. They had a very good lunch counter too, something that was hard to find back then. Loved that 'witch's hat'on the roof.

Yes.I believe it's a white building with a green cone shaped roof.

Too bad there's such limited residential options...

I haven't heard that there was a lack of residential in mid town...

Actually,I consider mid-town to be downtown's neighborhood which seems to have 100's of apartments and options within 2 minutes from downtown.

Nit Noi Thai Cafe opened for business last week downtown on the block of 300 Main Street and they were packed for lunch. Nit Noi had butcher paper up on the windows while they were doing construction to their space at 301 Main Street( previousely Cava's)at the corner of Congress. Cava's moved right across the street next to Cielo Bistro.This block seems to have emerged as Downtown's Restaurant Row as it seems to have the most restaurant cafes and bars in downtown that are all located on the same block and or within close proximity including: Mia Bella,Grum Bar, Clark's,Notsuoh,The Office Bar, Martel's Bar,Cava's Bistro,Cielo,Red Cat Jazz Cafe,Del Rey,and Voice within Hotel Icon."The Hub" building is the only remaining location on this block available for a restaurant or bar and has an updated tan stucco facade which replaced the fire engine red tile and large neon "Hub" signage. If you go to this link

and scroll towards the bottom of the page there are some cool photos of this historic block and "The Hub" building over the years:

http://www.hsacq.com/312-main-street-downtown-houston-texas