totheskies

So is there going to be any street-level retail for Main Place?

I think it's worth it to talk about the general trends for Downtown retail (restaurants being a HUGE part). In recent months, several new eateries have opened in downtown, and in the coming months we will gain some true Houston staples like BB's cafe, Niko Niko's and Phoenicia. Along with others.

So the question is this... is downtown finally the new hotspot??

Wow... this is all I could have hoped for downtown... and more!! I am a loyal Phoenicia customer. Only problem is I live so far away that I only get out there about twice a month. Now, I'll be able to take my bike there!!!!!!

I agree that eventually we want downtown to have a "mainstream" grocer, but this is and Byrd's market are a great start. The crowds that come for Phoenicia are the type of crowds that downtown wants to be "discovered" by. They are young and/or independent with fewer suburban ties (generally) and more disposable income. This IMO is the perfect fit.

And we can still meet the "mainstream needs" via the rail line... Randall's and two Fiestas are there. I will guiltily admit that I'd rather sit on the train a few mins more and hike across the road to the Fiesta by Reliant than the one at Wheeler station... selection-wise, there's just no comparison between the two.

So what is the final floor count going to be? 19 or 22?

So you're saying that the blue lights that we saw a couple of weeks ago were a collective figment of our imaginations? The Chase building is in fact an inanimate object. But being an object that houses living humans, it also houses their actions and conversations... which therefore means that it can and most certainly has housed disagreements. I was not referring to a disagreement between the physical building an arrangement of letters posted into the blogosphere. I was (obviously) referring to the ongoing discussions among people that decide the Chase buildings lighting scheme.

The argument has already been solved. The people who pay the light bill decide whether the lights should be turned on or off, and for how long.

I like how Houston imitated C2H's old hometown of Denver and copied their lighting scheme.

For now... hopefully we will continue to "see" disagreements like those from the Chase building.

^^ Right. As I said.... TXDOT. Last time I checked, smoke is not flourescent in most cases, but it can definitely obscure vision when combined with light sources. The downtown lighting scheme generates far less light pollution than our ever-constant high-mast freeway lights. So if you want to see stars, you need to either turn off those power-lamps, or cut on up to Cut 'n Shoot.

I think your use of the word progressive to describe more lighting is misguided. As the term is often ascribed to liberalism, and as liberalism in general deplores wasted energy and destructive environmental practices, and as having a boatload of lights on at night is wasteful and potentially destructive, I think what you're a proponent of is actually a regressive lighting scheme. No amount of LEED certifications will negate the fact it makes more sense environmentally to leave the lights off than on.

I'm in total agreement with Hanuman on this issue. Let's have more dark space in the city. I'd like to be able to point out Orion or the Big Dipper to my children someday* (without having to go to the boondocks to do it).

*Why won't anyone think about the children?!!

You probably need to talk to the chemical plants and TxDOT if you want to see stars in Houston. As Niche posted above, the downtown scrapers aren't going to help you see any stars alone.

I stand by my viewpoint that having a coordinated outdoor lighting scheme is progressive as opposed to regressive, while recognizing the fact that a lighting scheme involving indoor lights could also be progressive and/or regressive.

Sounds like we should press the city to develop an ordinance that says we should be "all on" or "all off". That's the only way this argument would ever be solved.

Considering that the Astrodome has its own zipcode, and inner loop Houston is desperate for hotel space, I wish that they would reconsider the hotel idea. Astrodome could easily divide up into 1200 spacious rooms.

Sorry, but no one needs to have a fact-based preference. You either prefer a more progressive lighting scheme in downtown, or you don't. The consensus among most major US cities is to have a more progressive lighting scheme. Houston doesn't and there's nothing "wrong" with that. But some people want more lighting in downtown Houston. I for one am glad that someone over in the Chase building hasn't given up on outdoor lights for their building, and I hope that the other skyscrapers in downtown follow suit.

I think this is the best response to all the people who have complained about the Embassy Suites being so short. (+1)

And really hotels in Houston aren't built tall, this is no Miami. Our tallest, the Hyatt Regency, at 30 stories, suffers being

located next to true skyscrapers, and makes no visible impact, although you sometimes see it peeking through buildings when your on the freeway.

The Hilton-Americas makes a good impact from the Gulf Freeway, and thats it.

They're not right now, but that mentality seriously needs to change. This city is hurting for hotel rooms... especially inside the loop. The Galleria doesn't even have enough for its daily business. Downtown would be able to attract a lot more conventions, festivals, etc. if we had more hotel rooms. Tall is not something I care about, but we need another hotel that is at least the size of the Hilton Americas to be truly competitive.

ES is going to make an awesome impact from 45s.

I'm forever amazed at the annexation/anti-annexation arguments. The amount of mis-information relative to the awesome sum of experiential evidence is somewhat stunning. I think the problem is that the pro-annexation crowd can't get over the myth that those who live "in county" somehow manage to receive "free" services from the COH that the residents of COH pay for but aren't compensated for. Whether or not the concerns alluded to are legitimate isn't something I can validate; it's a topic that arose in the thread. It's possible that the COH might see that again, the low property values wouldn't compensate them for the services they'd have to provide and do one of their "strip annexations" up the feeder of I-45 to take in the Exxon office park.

What I find somewhat amusing is this thought that we get the benefit of HPD without having to pay for it as though HPD was a benefit. HPD is the problem, not the benefit. Or to put it another way, we get the benefit of HPD being virtually non-existent in the form of roaming criminals who eventually run afoul of the law in the County jurisdiction. "Getting Annexed" means that we get what they got in Kingwood. Fire and Ambulance service that can't find the residences and Barney Fife, three half days a week in a Blue & White who sees it as his job to pass out tickets to the unsuspecting on Kingwood Blvd. It would be hilarious if it weren't for the fact that there have already been reported deaths of people waiting for bambulance service, (I have a friend who lives in Kingwood who will regail anyone in earshot of the horror stories). What actually happens is that once an area is annexed by COH, it's as though it's been roped off. Emergency calls are bipassed by Sherrif and PCT. 4 because HPD/HFD are now seen as first responders. So the only way around this is for those neighborhoods that can, continue with the same contract constabulary service they paid for before Annexation, but..............for whatever reason, and I suspect it's turf war problems, the response times go way, way up. If you really want to see the benefits of annexation.......take a trip to Willow Brook mall. It's not Westwood yet......but it's getting there fast.

Having said all that I don't have a dog in this hunt; I only live in Spring because the house is paid for and with only a few work years left there's little reason to move. Upon retirement, we'll sell the place and move permanently to the Hill country. My hope and prayer for those of you who live in COH is that one day, maybe, (but I won't hold my breath), you'll get a Mayor that will see services as a priority and not a problem.

Services are a priority... especially for the current mayor. But the problem is that everyone in Texas is cheap and they want something for nothing. If we want more policemen, better roads, more frequent and reliable transit etc., the city has to make more money. The only way for the city to make more money is for us to pay higher taxes. HPD is severly under-staffed, and they're not about to go and find more officers until we start footing some of these bills. I wish we were paying higher in sales tax or something... as long as the money is put to good use.

Yikes, and their website says there are 50 store fronts. So in year, they will still have 44 empty retail spaces?

no bueno

Don't think so. Unlike Houston Pavilions (downtown is still considered a deadzone for the serious retail shopper), West Ave is right across the street from River Oaks, and only a few miles from Rice Village, Highland Village and The Galleria. This is prime retail space for sure.

Also, I think enough Houstonians have been to Dallas and been jealous of how nicely the uptown developments have come together there. They want spaces like that in central Houston. Now we finally have one.

My guess is parking.

It would be so great to see someone build a parking garage with some street-level retail right here. That way, we take care of the growing parking needs for the area, generate some more retail interest, and form a solid link from Houston Pavilions to Discovery Green.

Did anyone catch that the Chase building has BLUE LED lights now?? They were on briefly tonight!!! Woohoo, downtown is going to get its lighting back!!

My guess is that all of the major towers are now working on replacing their lighting with energy-efficient LEDs. The Chase Building wins the race though, with red, white and blue settings (perfect for Independence day)

The money should be spent according to whatever will create a larger pool of better-qualified applicants. At the undergraduate level, that has very little to do with academics and more to do with lifestyle amenities and sports programs; these are also the programs that foster alumni involvement. At the graduate level, research spending is the name of the game.

If they can select from a better pool of prospective students (more like UT-Austin) then they're going to do better on average, one way or the other, and corporate recruiters won't need to be sought after...they'll just show up.

Fully agree. Another big issue for the main campus is a growing concern for safety. This is a big open campus that is active for basically 10 hours of the day, five to six days a week. Yes, there is a "police force" but they (like most departments) are grossly under-staffed. So most of the time, this place sits vacant and ripe for vadalism towards the few people that are here after hours.

So campus improvements and encouraging student life help in another very important way... they make UofH safer because more people will be around. Not to mention that many of these new additions include retail components that are desperately needed on campus as well.

Not much skyline imparct, but it will be so great to get much needed hotel space in downtown!! And great to see another burned parking space.

Yes... we now have setback

What floor is MP on now? When is the topping out party?

As an East End resident, I hope that the city and county stick to their guns and build it downtown. I am good friends with the President of the East End Management District, and she has been organizing citizens to put more pressure on the City and County to close this deal. We don't want to lose this stadium in our area!!

The benefits to the East End are much greater than the Galleria/ Meyerland area. This will help spur developement along the East End rail line and for the whole neighborhood. Plus, the last thing that the Galleria needs is another major traffic burden during rush hour.

I think I prefer the Red lights atop the JP Chase Bank Building... it looks really nice. They should consider keeping that lighting throughout the year (and using it). It would be especially classy if Chase kept the red, and Enterprise Plaza went back to it's white lights. Would be a nice contrast for the lighting scheme, which is something we haven't seen much of lately. It certainly wouldn't hurt if Wells Fargo decided to rejoin the party and fix its damaged lights too.

One thing's for sure... the performing arts crowd will be taking full advantage of the new park for our constant rehearsals and shows. This is going to be very exciting.

Kylejack and Redscare: I appreciate your input. I figured that BBQ would be a good business downtown because it appeals to a lot of people and figured it would be great to have a place for lunch or the late night crowd frequenting the bars. I think Phili sandwiches would do well also, very unique. I have heard that on the weekends there are limited places to eat in downtown and that people end up driving either to Mai's or to Katz in the montrose area. Del Rey and Frank's pizza are apparently the only operators open late night and have heard that they have a line so long it requires a police officer to monitor it. In speaking to Nit Noi it is my understanding that this weekend they are going to start staying open late night to acommodate the crowd. I believe they will stay open until 3 am.

wow that's awesome... thanks 312!!! I have a rehearsal in downtown late Saturday night... I'll be sure to tell people about Nit Noi!!!!

BTW... restaurants for downtown. We need more "chain places" in downtown too! A Freebirds, Taco Cabana (don't understand why this hasn't happen yet) and some other places that can immediately help to stir late night and weekend culture. Mongolian BBQ joints are always a plus for me too.

My mother always told me I was born 40, so that makes me 65. Which means I'm your elder. And you should respect your elders.

I apologize for not being more clear. I'm not calling HOB weak. I'm calling entertainment-oriented anchors weak as a category, which specifically means that such anchors may take up a large chunk of space (at a significant rent discount by the square foot) and draw many people at a time, but that they have a difficult time justifying complimentary retail other than food service. Compare the traditional regional mall business model to that of an entertainment-anchored mall:

A strong mall anchor focuses on apparel and general merchandise, providing enormous draw and broad appeal across all demographics. In-line retailers then have three angles of attack: 1) they can specialize on certain products and themes that appeal to various segments of the large and diverse base of shoppers, 2) they allow comparison shopping between numerous similar stores, and 3) they can exploit convenience-oriented and impulse-driven retail.

In contrast, entertainment-oriented retail anchors start off with a fairly limited demographic appeal such as limits segmentation potentials, they draw people mostly during off hours, and they do not foster an atmosphere conducive to comparison shopping. Aside from food service, there's weak synergistic potential.

And yes, totheskies, I realize that our generation is supposed to go gaga over this kind of thing, so sayeth the Gen-X marketing managers that promote products at us. I don't care. The fundamental rules of retail still apply, no matter how many voracious consumers or European sedans were depicted in the architects' renderings of HP.

Right so that's the textbook difference between successful retail, successful entertainment venues and the advantages of one over another. Got it. HP's current retail scheme is sub-standard (being kind there)... I hope they are trying to recruit more variety for that end of the development.

Depends on whose goal you're talking about.

The City's goal was to have a thriving downtown entertainment-oriented mecca, serving the populations that you identified. The City specifically denied funding for any uses that were not considered sufficiently "public", including residential, hotel, or office space. The subsidies were provided to the developer on the basis that the developer build shell space and were in no way dependent upon the developer hitting an occupancy threshold or successfully attracting the tenants that were initially targeted, nor were there any incentives put forward to benefit prospective tenants.

The developer, working from 2006 rental rates and 2006 cap rates, didn't much have to care if occupancy problems persisted as had been the case in so many similarly-themed projects because they were able to make the project appear sexy enough to arrange for a huge lump sum subsidy. Their assumptions were wrong.

In summary: 1) The City got what it paid for, shell retail space, and would've been better off directly courting retailers such as HOB with incentives to open up shop downtown, letting the retailer determine which is the best location for a new venue. 2) The developer is likely stuck with HP for a good long while, not a good position to be in if the mortgage comes due at any point over the next several years. 3) Downtown promoters have lost the opportunity to point to a successful and transformative project, which is what they were desperately hoping for. Instead they got a rehashed Bayou Place. 4) Convention-goers, out-of-town visitors, and suburbanites get to enjoy the handful of facilities that the City of Houston's subsidies made possible. Houstonians get that enjoyment, too, but overpaid for it. We shouldn't brag about it.

Ok, but 2006 was a world of crazy-ass speculation anyway, and no one could have predicted how bad things were going to get when HP was ready to open. I'm sure that the developers faced some ridiculously hard decisions to get this thing off the ground, and now thanks to so many businesses backing out or stalling, we're left with a half-empty development. Sounds like a story that virtually every city in the United States could tell about it's malls or shopping venues right now. No one is healthy, and we're not even sure what healthy is anymore.

IMO, HP should narrow in its focus first and choose who's more important. They've got the hipster Gen-Y crowd on lock with the entertainment venues. Now they need to go for some things that will appeal more to conventioneers and general Houstonians... a Houston-themed gift shop, a Metro RideStore, a nice Western wear shop like Cavender's. These are places that will appeal to both the tourist crowd and the "downtown tourists" that aren't as familiar with the inner city. It would be a nice way to foster retail interest without trying to redefine what is already working.

Doubtful. If white people aren't willing to ride the bus to get to light rail (in which case they could already get to HP by bus), then you're limited to small concentric circles around rail stations as the catchment area. That's very limiting with respect to METRO's Phase II implementation once you segment out the demographics to conform to the target market.

In order to attract retailers and achieve a reasonable level of occupancy, HP must overcome the fact that it is a mere community center with weak entertainment-oriented anchors and narrow demographic appeal (similar to the plight that faces the ever-beleaguered Marq-E Center, except that that one has visibility, signage, and free parking). HP would need to generate the broad appeal of a regional mall, but that's just not realistic.

OMG how old are you???

I guess I'm trying to reason how the House of Blues is considered a "weak entertainment-oriented anchor". It's been very successful, and hasn't had any trouble competing with the Verizon or Warehouse Live. Pete's is doing very well every time I go there, and it seems that Andalusia and LSL are off to a good start. I agree the reatil of HP is beyond weak becuase it's not well-planned and there's not a healthy retail population in downtown yet. But if you're calling the entertainment segment of this developement "weak" then you're not familiar enough with the project to be making a comment.

HOB Houston is in the plus column... so much so that it makes Live Nations 3Q profit earnings report...

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9MjAwNjl8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1

I recently posted my thoughts of Houston Pavilions on SSP...

PROs

-NRG leased ALL of the Pavilions' office space, so this basically has allowed them to stay alive. And insured that we'll at least have retail space for the future in that area.

-The House of Blues Houston is the rock of this development hands down. It's been one of the most successful of the HOB franchise to date, and continues to draw top notch crowds for it's concerts. Don't know how the restaurant has held up, but HOB is certainly not going anywhere.

-Forever XXI has a steady stream of retail customers, so it can be counted on the plus side.

-Business overall has started to pick up in the restaurant arena. Guadalajara has been a big hit, and has a strong showing of daytime and evening customers. Still a little early to see about Yao, III Forks, Mia Bella and Andalusia, but what I've heard so far has been good.

-Houston Pavilions has went above and beyond the call for promoting retail shopping in downtown. They have contracted out pedicab services that go to the Theater District, Discovery Green and Midtown to pick up shoppers and bring them to HP. Most people don't know about this, but it's really handy and (hopefully) is adding to the visibility of HP.

CONs

-Lidz and Journeys were early casualties... they opened too soon, and were in HORRIBLE locations. The development is just now getting enough "interest" that people are willing to actually walk through it, but at the beginning there just wasn't anything there.

-Books-a-Million is (IMO) the crappiest of the big bookstore chains. It doesn't fit in downtown Houston. I applaud them for their bravery, but I think that B&N or Borders (or an ORIGINAL big bookstore!!!) would have been much better for that area. I do shop there though, because I want to support retail in downtown, and their travel guide section is passable.

-Pedicabs aside, they still haven't done enough to forge a link with the new "zone of activity" by Discovery Green. There's still way too many people that come to downtown to visit the park, but don't know about HP. They need to be more aggressive with their promotion. I continue to hear that there's "nowhere to eat" or "nothing to do" once people are done at the park.

-It's half empty for crying out loud!!!! So frustrating!

So for me, HP is still in the plus column by a 5-to-4 vote. We're much better off having what we have of it than we were with 3 surface parking lots, but there's still a long way to go. I think that 2010 is going to be a good year for HP though, especially on the retail side.