SMF

I blame poor management.

   But I have already given the Turkish developer a down payment for my condo because he said he was going to make Dallas shine, on the quiet south side of downtown behind city hall, 2 blocks from the Ghetto. He told me that even though all his other major projects and super tall skyscrapers have fallen into to the toilet, this one REALLY won't this time and he has learned his lesson and he is going to open a Subway franchise next to city hall so their is something to eat near city hall. He said almost all the condos are already sold and that if I didn't give him a check for $30,000 I would be homeless in Dallas. Are you calling me some kind of idiot or something?

I have already purchased my condo on the north side of one of the 80 story towers so that I will have a view of the Dallas skyline and the other super tall tower going up on the other side of down town. I suggest you all do the same because these units will go very quickly. I'm kind of surprised there are any units left in this glorious Turkish project. Dallas is better than New York. Nobody's moving to Houston anymore. All Houston has is a 40 story tower while Dallas has two 80 story towers and two 60 story towers being built as we speak. It's time Houston faces reality and accepts the fact that Dallas has the tallest towers in Texas right now and there is nothing you can do about it except drool.

This project is 100% assured! Nothing can stop it! It' s practically built already! Everyone in Houston is jealous because these super tall towers are absolutely, 100% certain to be built! There is no chance this will not happen! I'm going to get a condo there and send Houston a post card saying "KISS MY A...." Dallas is unstoppable! Houston sits stagnant. In all my years of observing major projects being proposed, NEVER have I seen a project so well thought out, so well funded and such well established, seasoned developers make such a convincing statement to the media which leaves no doubt as to what the future holds for land they don't yet own.

@ On The Other Hand - LOVE IT! That's what I'm talking about. @ Montrose - Who would have ever guessed in 1933 that Alcatraz would ever be a tourists destination? Or the grungy old beaten up Fisherman's Wharf? Or Ellis Island? I would never try to predict what will be romanticized in the future. They were just ordinary buildings used for practical purposes. I think the Astrodome has as good a chance as anything standing today to be a top visited landmark in the world in the future, if marketed correctly. It's certainly got a better chance than anything else in Houston. It's got historical relevance. It's big. People have already 'heard' about it outside of Houston. And even if it doesn't become a top visited landmark in the future, it could still be a usable, terrific public space for the locals to enjoy. I strongly disagree that it's 'just a stadium'. If it was 'just a stadium' we wouldn't be having this discussion. It would have been torn down years ago like Texas Stadium. The Astrodome revolutionized stadiums. It helped put Houston on the map in the 1960's. It made people re-imagine what kinds of events could be held indoors. It represents an engineering milestone and is an unique architectural icon. About what to do with it... Frankly, at this point, I'm tired of listening to wild ideas and cooler than cool hypotheticals of repurposing of the dome. To me it isn't about coming up with the coolest idea anymore, it's about coming up with the most REALISTIC cool idea that has a better chance of happening against an army of people who would just as soon see it become another 10 acres of additional parking. People have been dreaming up cool ideas for 15 years and nothing happens. Granted, the park idea does not allow for the coolest or wildest structures to be built inside the dome or cater to any specialize group of people with a particular interest. I know many people love the idea of indoor skiing, water parks or casinos ect., because all of those things are more fun than just going to a park full of boring trees that just stand there and do nothing. But the park idea works for me because it keeps the dome as an multipurpose usable venue. It's not about building something really cool inside the dome. The dome is already cool. It's about the events and fun activities that would be going on inside the dome - a climate controlled, comfortable environment that also has some notoriety and historic relevance. Do they need living trees and a park environment to hold special events inside the dome? I don't know, but the permanent living park idea certainly sounds more inviting and provides extra reason to want to go there or hold your event there instead of at another large, less ornamental indoor venue. Holding a public event inside the dome could kind of be like holding a party on the Queen Mary only instead of a party it could be street fairs, big time festivals, farmers markets, concerts, conventions or any other traditionally held outdoor events that people travel to other parts of town to go to for weekend fun. The dome is so big, you could have different events held at once. There may be ideas of what to add inside or new types of events we haven't even thought up yet. The park idea has legs and would allow for growth. The park idea would allow the dome to return to the days when it attracted a large variety of events. But instead of buying a ticket and sitting in seat to watch athletes and famous people do their stuff, the public would be on the floor, truly interacting with this unique space. Throw in the fact that famous people once did cool things on this ground and it only adds to the fun and novelty of being there.

That's what I'm saying. It needs to be better than what we already have at the airport. DT has (will have) the hotels, conventions and activities. Business travelers from Dallas won't like having to deal with the same issues they have to coming in at Houston airport. I can see how it would be great on the Dallas end to get to the station, but once they are in Houston HSR won't be much or any better what is already here.

People from Houston and people coming from Dallas will still have to rent a car, still have to deal with parking and still have to wait in traffic to get to downtown Houston. Even in the best possible scenario, this whole project seems like a long shot to me. I think they would increase their chances for success by making certain that the station ties into both cities existing rail transit and making the entire experience as easy on the traveler as possible. It need to be significantly better and faster than air travel.

If they don't build in downtown Houston and downtown Dallas, this will fail shorty after the novelty wears off. If people have to drive to NW Mall to catch a train, they might as well drive to Bush or Hobby to catch a plane. If you are going to do this, spend the extra billion and do it right.

What is the Eiffel Tower? Its just a collection of old oxidized steel beams shaped like a droopy letter A. When people compare the Astrodome to the Eiffel Tower they are not comparing the amount of tourism they bring or fame they have today. They are comparing the architectural breakthroughs that they represent, uniqueness, iconic relevance and the identification with the cities they are in. Both achieved fame outside their own city. Maybe few people talk about the dome today outside Houston but that wasn't always the case. If you watch old t.v. shows and movies the Astrodome was referenced all the time. I realize that some people can't get past the fact that in 2014 people from all over the world tour the Eiffel Tower and the Astrodome is mothballed. But if repurposed and marketed correctly, I think the Astrodome could absolutely one day attract the same kind of tourism that the Eiffel Tower currently does. The older the dome gets, the more historically relevant it gets. Believe it or not, not everyone was impressed with the Eiffel Tower when it was built or when it began to show it age either. In fact, a lot of destinations were discarded eye sores before they were reborn as tourist attractions. Alcatraz, Fisherman's Wharf and Pier 39 in San Francisco come to mind. What I'm saying is that even if the Astrodome never achieves the same type of acclaim that the Eiffel Tower receives, the dome is the closest thing we have to it in Houston. I think of the dome as "HOUSTON'S Eiffel Tower", not as something that competes with the Eiffel Tower as it exist today. At least not yet. Just as people identify the Eiffel Tower with Paris, the Astrodome WAS commonly identified with Houston for years, many years ago, and can be again if directed to. It's all about marketing and repurposing. As long as the building exist, it has the chance to become famous again. If they tear it down it is a lost opportunity FOREVER. Not just for Houston, but for the world - even if the world or Houston doesn't know it yet.

It is a great compliment to an imperfect city like Houston when someone on the other side of the globe can't stop thinking about it. I don't blame Slick Vic or anyone for being so obsessed over Houston. However, I do think it's strange for someone to be obsessed over a city they consistently trash on an hourly basis - especially while one is supposedly traveling around the world. Weird.

    Go tell it to the O.P. And don't be so gullible. Nobody ever said that Houston was New York. But that doesn't mean we don't get ANY tourists. http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2013/11/08/still-undiscovered-but-improving.html?page=all "For Houston being such a business-centric town, it might surprise some to know that the bulk of visitors, 69 percent in 2012, were leisure travelers — and the majority of those leisure travelers were visiting friends or family members. The remaining 31 percent of visitors to Houston were business travelers." "Perhaps the most noteworthy fact that TNS pointed out was that 86 percent of visitors surveyed said they were satisfied with their visit to Houston. John Packer, vice president and travel and research for TNS, explained during a Friday presentation of the research that the satisfaction rate was particularly high among Houston visitors who are residents of New York, Chicago and Washington, D.C. Eighty-four percent of residents surveyed from these places said they were satisfied with their visit to Houston."

Spare me. After reading all the non-sense you consistently post, I don't believe anything you say.

The idea didn't get past the Texans or Rodeo and I don't think they could find investors. I don't know the whole story. Here is the rendering. http://images.chron.com/photos/2005/08/17/2885413/311xInlineGallery.jpg

Why that's tackier than the Dallas skyline. O well, at least they never covered it in fake snow and tried to get people to ski down it. Don't worry Paris, I still think your tower rocks even if someone was allowed to cheapen it for a little while. My regard for the Houston Astrodome wouldn't diminish if there was a plastic snow hill inside it either. And to be honest, Cloud, I really, REALLY am not that worried about a ski zone inside the dome - besides just silly, the idea is way too far fetched for anyone to take seriously. You might as well propose putting the worlds largest fiberglass dinosaur in it and market it as the world largest family friendly interstate truck stop. When it comes to the Astrodome, I'm much more worried about the wrecking ball than I am in this silly non-sense.

Your welcome. My two-letter response was much more than you can expect this silly idea to receive from the county.

There are tons of fun things to do in Houston. And many more coming - especially if you like touristy stuff and kid stuff. The Grand Texas Complex is currently under construction. There's another project in Texas City called Adventure Pointe that is under development. And believe it or not the EarthQuest people still haven't thrown in the towel. Galveston is a treasure. There are many many things to see and do there. Moody Gardens, Pleasure Pier, Schlitterbahn, The Strand, Historic Buildings, and yes the BEACH. Thousands go into the water and enjoy going to beach every year. Top notch shopping in uptown and great parks all around. Buffalo Bayou is going to blow people's socks off. Great museums and theaters keep people happy in Houston too. Slickvick - You have proven yourself to be a completely unreliable source on transit and city planning. Now you have proven conclusively you know nothing about tourism too. Give it up. You can post YOUR OPINIONS until the end of time and you won't convince anyone that Houston doesn't rock. And no matter where it ranks on your own personal list, Space Center Houston is a great tourist attraction and thousands go there every year and love it.

NO!

@ slickvic - you lost me at San Antonio, Austin, Charleston and Denver. In fact, you lost me the first time I ever read anything you ever wrote. There is nothing stopping Houston from having, building or organically creating anything a tourist might travel to see in most of those other cities you mentioned in the future. A river walk? Amusement Parks? A music scene? That stuff comes and goes. If anyone is interested enough to travel to other cities to see that crap, they would travel to see them in Houston. You were better off when you ridiculously started comparing Houston to places with crystal clear beaches and mountains. Just because you have an affinity for cheap road-side attractions doesn't mean that you have a clue about what attracts tourism, ESPECIALLY quality tourism. Your predictions of the future sound about as clouded as your perception of the hear and now - and it's hardly honest or rational.

   My bad. I'm sorry. I mis-read your post the other day about being "what would be swell". I thought it was directed at me the first time I read it and got too defensive. I was going to tell you go back re-read but I just now followed my own advice and realized that what I said was based on my own misunderstanding. My post directed at you was uncalled for and misguided. Sorry again. BTW, I agree with everything you said above.

Agreed. Street performers belong on the Galveston seawall in front of the Pleasure Pier or maybe hanging around Kemah. But DEFIANTLY NOT in front of the Menil. Slick Vic, this thread is about tourism not mass transit. Listing cities that have far better rail transit systems in no way has anything to do with tourism or boringness. Why does EVERYTHING have to do with transit in your world? It is only ONE aspect of life. In fact, mass transit doesn't even qualify as ANY aspect of life for most Houstonians or people that visit here because everyone has cars. Mass transit isn't what makes a city attract tourists or cause or prevent a significant number of people from being bored except for the urbanists and no one gives a rats ass what they want. It's like listening to a baby cry. Eventually, you just tune it out or stick a pacifier in it's face. In the end, it accomplishes and means nothing. So you can't handle the fact that some visitors actually enjoy Houston and have nice things to say about it (the topic of this thread) - so you immediately start in with the juvenile "Houston is boring" bash-troll routine we've already seen from you a million times. Everyone calls you on it except someone called city KID, so you start bashing the transit system (as usual) and somehow try to tie tourism, boringness and mass transit together. Now we get to read a long list of cities that have great mass transit system and it still doesn't mean a hill of beans to anyone interested in Houston tourism and it definitely has nothing to do with the reason the OP started this thread.

I guarantee you that a HAIF poll is not an accurate sampling of the residents in Houston. HAIF is fun, but I don't believe the comments here are reflective of the real world in even the slightest capacity. Most people outside this menagerie never even heard of GFR. Most would find the idea silly. Intriguing maybe, but ultimately cheap and cheesy. Correct. (congrats) The Astrodome is not the Eiffel Tower, but it is the closest thing with have to it's uniqueness and distinctiveness. No other building in this town comes close to it's fame. Don't treat it like some cheap road-side attraction. The L.A. Times doesn't. http://articles.latimes.com/2013/nov/05/entertainment/la-et-cm-astrodome-houston-preservation-20131105

@ Montrose - Do you really think people would travel across the country to go to a fake ski mountain if they can go to one in their own town? Or better yet, travel to the real thing? - Not trying to belittle your opinion either. I like that you are thinking about attracting tourist. And if they spared no expense with the ski idea and used genuine fake snow instead of plastic pellets AND they don't start building these in every city in America, I could maybe warm up to the idea. But like I hinted to in my earlier post, the main reason I'm against the idea (since you asked) is that I hold the Astrodome in very high regard for it's uniqueness. I would prefer that anything they build inside the dome to attract people will compliment the midcentury architecture without competing with it or taking away from it. Or in this case, make a joke of it. I know others don't share my reverence for the dome, but I do think of it as Houston's own Eiffel Tower. Can you imagine if someone built a roller coaster on the Eiffel Tower because 'it's fun' and 'may attract more tourist'. Maybe it would. But it would also cheapen it. Thinking of the Stratosphere Tower in Vegas. Like I said, my first priority would be saving the dome at any cost, and if a fake ski resort would save the structure, I'd change my tune very quickly. And to answer your question - Yes, I do think people would travel across the country to go to a special event held inside a 9.5 acre indoor park in the historical Houston Astrodome if they do it right, keep it natural and don't use plastic trees. Looking straight up, the view of the ceiling from the middle of the floor is to die for. If it was surrounded by living trees, living grass and a babbling brook it would be even awesom-er IMO. The ski thing has it's place in Houston. Out with the other not-too-unique family-style attractions on the outskirts like every other city in America - New Caney sounds perfect for this - no lie.

@ Montrose - Yes. If these ski-mountain things become popular they will be common in every city just like water parks. Who travels to hotels or to another far away city to go to water parks? Even in the metroplex the proposed areas for these things are always way out in the burbs where they belong. The Astrodome is unique. An indoor park on that scale would be unique. I would never compare an indoor climate controlled park inside the Astrodome with any other green space in Houston or America. There are other indoor parks for sure, Moody Gardens has them. But what would happen in a space like the Astrodome is that large events could be held inside. Concerts, conventions, festivals ect. all comfortably climate controlled and weatherproof. Many people could and would use it. Hotels would fill up for events held inside. Skiing has limited appeal. The ski mountain thing may be fun (for some) but it is an eyesore. I hold more reverence for the Astrodome than to put a glorified water slide, roller coaster or any other cheesy fly-by-night amusement facility in there. However, if the ski thing was one of the only things that kept them from tearing down the Astrodome I would be for it. And to be fair, I've heard worse suggestions than the ski carny attraction idea - but not many. Putting a fake ski mountain inside the Astrodome would be like putting a Shepard Fairey doodle inside the Louvre. Anyway the likelihood of anything this ridiculous happening is ZERO so don't even worry about it.

Agree. When this was first proposed I was excited to see Houston get another high rise. I didn't care about the neighborhood. Having something you may not like being built next to you is the risk and price ANYONE might have to pay for the privilege living in Houston (especially the inner city). But now, there so many other, much more interesting high rises going up in much more appropriate areas of the city, that I wouldn't miss this tower at all if got cancelled.

It would break my heart to see something as cheap and trashy as a fake snow mountain inside Houston's one undisputed, revolutionary architectural icon. I'd sooner they make it a flea market or a bingo parlor first. A multi-purposed enclosed green space is the best idea I've heard yet. Glad to know there is a serious force behind it. If Houston has to have a fake ski zone, stick it out in New Caney with Grand Texas and EarthQuest and hide it behind the tall pines so no one has to see it.