DNAguy

Real info:

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/morning_call/2015/01/high-speed-rail-station-could-redevelop-dallas.html

 

The Dallas-to-Houston bullet train is going through an environmental review process and Texas Central Railway, the private company behind the project, won't comment on where a Dallas station could be built. But DART has gotten a head start with its own drawing for where the station should go.

 

The rendering shows a massive airport-like concourse on the former Reunion Arena site near Union Station to accommodate the bullet train and additional DART stations. The rendering also shows both the Morning News and WFAA buildings as "potential redevelopment blocks." The rendering is preliminary, DART officials say.

I was at the meeting. What an utter waste of time. It was like going to a meeting in the 1800's of the idea of ending slavery was proposed. Is eckels alive? People were angry basically your stereotypical pitchfork crowd. I wanted to comment but they may have killed me. But it was a bunch of uneducated imbecile NIMBY's. They would be okay with trains going on Washington but not in their neighborhood. Yea good luck with that when there are a lot of rich NIMBY's on that corridor also. It was all fear mongering and no substance. And as someone else said they already have much louder trains going through there. And if it ends at NW transit center then commuter rail will go down the same corridor. Which wil get hell also.

Why? What extra benefit comes from having the station Downtown, where there's little room for parking, and far from the center of mass of people likely to use the service. What benefit is there to having the train spend an extra 15-30 minutes winding its way through neighborhoods to Downtown, when everyone could be off the train and on their way to their final destination at a terminus at Northwest Mall?

 

None of my colleagues who live in GOOF are in favor of a near 40 foot train trestle through their neighborhood.

Is there any better acronym than 'GOOF' when describing these homeowners and their concerns.... ok, ok too easy.

Anyhow, you're missing the biggest and most ridiculous fallacy in your argument. You already have longer, louder, and slower trains going through your neighborhood. Your NIMBY-ism is showing so you better zip up your fly and tuck it back in. It's blinding you from seeing the forest from the trees here. 

If you think that NW mall is better b/c its closer to the 'real center' of Houston, it has real estate to accommodate a large station / development, it has the ability to connect w/ downtown AND the Galleria areas if/when METRO / COH invest in better public transportation, and it most likely will be cheaper then I might be more on your side.

Saying downtown is an inferior spot loses me though. It is most likely the best possible spot. as detailed by the post above. It has multiple locations (Hardy yards AND old Post Office) that can accommodate a large station / development. It is the center of Houston's public transportation and freeway system, it can be connected to the Galleria area (and already is connected to the Medical center) if/when METRO/COH invest in better public transportation,but is not the cheaper option.

So it comes down to cost.... which will most likely get you your outcome as this will be privately financed.

But what I can't understand is why you don't fight like hell to try and get this line THROUGH your neighborhood with the understanding / agreement from the developers that a.) it can't be elevated b.) Sections must be trenched and sound barriers installed at all at-grade rail locations. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/your-money/between-heaven-and-earth-an-airline-ticket-gone-awry-.html

http://gawker.com/united-airlines-customer-service-was-so-bad-it-made-a-m-1677143383

United approaching Comcast status for most most epic viral customer service fail.

All black people are cool. Just like all white people and Asian and Hispanic and all races are cool.

Except Kim Jong Un.

He may be a homicidal tyrant, but there's no denying he's a fashion icon. Where do you think Macklemore got his idea for his 'famous' haircut?

I can't tell which comment section I love more; Chron's or Yahoo's

Every time I read either, I think of this:

I just drove that Allen Parkway ramp for the first time and it was borderline terrifying spiraling into the Freeway in my Jeep.

No objection closing that ramp. I like the proposal to reroute 45 along 59 and 10 and turn the Pierce into a Parkway. I'd really love a rail line that goes along such Parkway into Allen Parkway and then into Kirby...although that would take a shift in attitudes in this town.

If you thought the Afton Oaks opposition to the University line was bad, try and put a rail line through River Oaks. The streets would run red with the blood of MERTO officials. Ok maybe not, but it would be stopped faster than a hooker in sketchers. 

Even w/ a guarantee not to make a stop between Shephard and San Felipe or even all the way to Westheimer, RO would be opposed. Although, it would be an awesome route / ride.... especially during the azalea bloom in early spring and during the Christmas light season after Thanksgiving. 

Let the voter's decide in a referendum and live w/ their choices. If they say no, then so be it. The precedent was set for the Astrodome. Any large infrastructure project now needs a majority of citizen support.

If you don't want new taxes, vote no. If you feel its within the government's role to levy taxes for public safety, vote yes. Democracy baby.

It's pretty incredible how many threads degrade to arguments about transportation.

It's close to Thanksgiving. Did you expect any argument / discussion to stay on topic? 

The fact that we didn't end up on the topic of religion or politics is some sort of minor miracle.

Bobruss.  The 73 townhomes will roughly be where "Live Oak Place" is located.  That conceptual plan by BBP is from 2002.  It would be amazing if the whole bayou could be "restored" like the concept.  But...let's be realistic. That is mostly private commercial/industrial property.  Some of it will be converted to public green space, like where is Silos are.  But,unless, whole hell of a lot of money as added to the BBP partnership's budget the entirety of the concept cannot expected to come true.  At least not in the foreseeable future anway. 

 

DNA - Have you been over to the Bayou around there?  It is really nice.  BBP has been working on it for a long time and continues to do so. 

Navi, you called me out.

I haven't been there since roughly 2009-2010 when I would ride my bike on Navigation and Clinton to satisfy my deathwish / avoid high gas prices.

Man that seems like an eternity ago. 

Well, I will take the long way home one day and check this out then. Challenge accepted.

Well, this thread is officially side tracked..

Are you suggesting we don't add any more capacity to our roadways as millions more people continue to move here??

I wasn't aware expanding 610 would spur more suburban development. if anything, not doing anything about our inner city traffic problems would sway more people to suburban living, to "avoid all the traffic".

If you assume that everyone has to drive their own car to work, then building more and more freeways is the only answer.

You are correct in that.

[i've already packed my things in anticipation of my comments being moved to the Transportation section of HAIF  ]

 

AND NOW

ANOTHER THING THAT HOUSTON HAS A SHORTAGE OF:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2014/10/23/housing-shortage-looms-for-houston-baby-oomers.html

 

Houston faces one of the largest housing shortages for Baby Boomers in the country, according to a new report.

Metrostudy Corp., a national housing research and consulting firm with an office in Houston, analyzed the current housing market for Boomers. It found that Houston has the second-largest deficit nationally for Baby Boomer housing. The Bayou City could face a shortage of more than 260,000 homes for active adults 55 and older...

I wonder if ppl will really downsize. Especially her in Houston.

If you refinanced in the last 5 years or so / have paid off your house, what is the incentive to actually move? Smaller houses in 'hip' areas cost just as much as the house you're most likely going to sell and Interest rates are going to go up soon(ish?). 

I mean, you can use that $ you saved refinancing to hire a lawn person. Most suburbs are have a fake towncenter-like place now that bring enough of a city feel closer to where you live. And you have extra rooms for your kids / grandkids for the holidays.

I think this is 'shortage' is a manufactured crisis.

(1)  No it is not just as bad as it was 10 years ago,  and (2) Just imagine how bad traffic would now be on the Katy Freeway,not to mention Northwest Freeway, Westpark Tollway, Southwest Freeway, Westheimer Rd, Memorial, etc etc. had the Katy Freeway not been expanded.

I don't want to get too far into this, but you're assuming that the growth to the west of Houston would have happened even if they didn't build those freeways.

I would argue that without expanding the Katy, building the Westpark tollway, etc that we don't see places Cinco Ranch get built.

Induced demand is a real thing and until ppl understand that, we're doomed to keep repeating the 'build more lanes, build more suburban communities' rinse and repeat that we've been doing for the last 60+ years.

They have redone all the hiking/biking trails along that part of the bayou recently....on the diagram there is a big "Buffalo Bayou Partnership Park" shown....they are currently redoing the park area just to the west of this area....I'd say they heard your wishes...

Not quite.

If you look at the BBP's original master plan, the east section of the bayou had a far grander plan for restoration:

http://www.buffalobayou.org/pdf/East_Sector.pdf

I'm all for the redevelopment.

But are we losing an opportunity to restore the Bayou and make it a park for ALL to use?

According to any cop that has pulled me over, it is not 'safe' to drive over a speed limit....

If they increase the speed limit on a road that has had no safety improvements, does that mean that the police are liars? Are speeding tickets not there to secure the safety of the citizens, but as a means to generate revenue?

Say it ain't so!

DNA, and I suppose you're against paying school taxes if you don't have kids or they are already out of school.

anyway, this thing needs to be meglev with its own path into downtown.

Not at all. 

Paying for school taxes benefits us all.. even if you don't have kids going to school. If you don't educate ppl, they end up skill-less, unemployed and on the government dole. So its self defeating to make that argument as you're going to pay for it either way. Education is far cheaper than endless poverty / welfare. Teach a man to fish... no free lunch... etc.

I really don't know why you made that leap. But we digress from the fact that the ppl who are asking for a costlier alignment are at the same time avoiding the extra costs of being a city by getting an exclusive sweetheart 'township' arrangement that puts more of a tax burden on Montgomery county / surrounding areas while keeping their tax burden artificially low.

It reeks of hypocrisy... and the people who live there are too blind to see it.

found this today.

 

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/neighborhood/woodlands/news/article/Woodlands-leaders-push-for-high-speed-rail-5898268.php

 

The chances of it going down the I-45 corridor are fading very quickly. If they really want to be considered then they should stop being so whiny and incorporate. The Woodlands is growing at an enormous rate, but they aren't as important as they think sometimes.

This.

Why as a Houston area tax payer would I support a rail alignment that would only benefit a select group of suburbanites who have a system of government that is specifically designed to avoid annexation and keep their tax burden artificially lower?

Pay your 'fair share' and I might start listening to you.

The design of the elevated 183 thru North Austin is quite pleasing to the eye. It always reminded me of a modern take on a Roman aqueduct.

You know what, you're right!

I could never place what that section of 183 reminded me of and now it clicked!

I wouldn't say it made the area nicer.... then again I don't know what it looked like b/f they elevated the road.

Highways are public or owned by toll road authorities. The users are separate from the infrastructure, which is decidedly not the case in the American model of freight railroads.

 

Please take a look at a map of the right-of-way, particularly in satellite mode, and see why this would be extraordinarily difficult, especially since it is private companies that are involved.

 

You would also be involving the City of Houston in this, given that there would be several major street disruptions that would be involved with this, each of which would be a 2-3 year, multimillion dollar project.

 

None of these serve to improve the product; they serve only to appease people who truly do not want change in their neighborhood - an extremely small fraction of the people who will benefit from the project.

Your first point is extremely valid and something I don't think I considered fully.

However, TxDOT has been in negotiations with UP about relocating tracks in central texas and I don't think its outside the possibility that we could seem some sort of agreement on this alignment as well. I stress "possibility".

I agree with everything you said.

I'm just saying its not impossible and would actually be the better option (my opinion) for the surrounding community if they do bring the train into downtown to trench the thing

I can't think of any example where an elevated train, road, or highway ever made the surrounding community 'nicer'.

I still think the NW mall is where the station will be located for the reasons mentioned.

*sigh* I'm sorry but don't businesses make money off of what people want? Or is this some alternate reality. You act like customers have no influence over what companies do at all which is flat out wrong. Sure, yeah, it's a private company and they will do what they want, but understand that it's a balance also between customer and company.

You're telling me that ppl will pay more $ for a train ticket if it means they built noise canceling walls vs. a ticket that cost less that's on an ugly elevated rail line?

The customer is the person riding the train (mostly business ppl), not the individuals that live in the neighborhood by the tracks. Yes, I know there might be some spill over, but lets not pretend that a pretty train really matters here.

Ummm. Maybe you should reevaluate what you said about London, etc... While most EuroStars do mostly go to St. Pancreas they also go to other stations such as Waterloo which is RIGHT ON THE THAMES! Even St. Pancreas gets you deep in the thick of things. That's the real sticking point with any rail project is that it takes you into the thick of everything or the densest of places that otherwise would be difficult to get too or be time consuming by any other means. Sure NW mall site might become fully developed later on, but seriously if you look there now its a wasteland. Not exactly an attractive stop. Not exactly one that's connected to a lot of different systems which Downtown is starting to develop.

 

Once again you perfectly illustrate that for literally no reason you are limiting the scope of the project when it's still in it's infancy. I could go on and on about cities in Europe too, but that's not the point of this thread nor should it go down that road. Another thing I simply don't get is all this talk  about this fictitious budget we keep trying to calculate in our collective minds. The only people that need to worry about costs on this project is TCR. Not any of us.

 

Am I insane for wanting to continue to inject optimism into a thread were everyone seems to want the bare minimum? Isn't the Texas persona to think big, act big, and build big. Isn't it a Houston thing (or once was) that we push the limits of what can be done.....oh yeah I remember that latest advertising run claiming Houston is a city without limits. Maybe I interpreted that as meaning more than just endless sprawl....

People can 'want' until the cows come home.

This is private money, though. 'Want' has nothing to do with this. The only thing that matters here is '$'.

Please explain how trenching could be done without reducing the BNSF/UP line to single tracking for weeks, if not months.

If highways can do it, then by golly I'm sure we can figure out how to do it w/ tracks.

I'm not saying it would be as cheap as reducing their capacity, but it can be done.

Some thoughts off the top of my head:

1 idea: Construct a temporary 3rd track if necessary / room in ROW. Maybe needed, maybe not.

More likely: Dig partial trench on one side. Dig dig under street / ROW while supporting it. Support under freight lines. Install tracks on trenched portion. 

Open trenched tracks for freight.

Start trenching other side for what will be HSR.

I know it sounds simple, but its amazing what can be done w/ a staged plan. Now there may be UP/BNSF outages every once in a while but they don't use those tracks 24/7. 

Surely there's not enough room to trench four rail lines along the corridor without taking property, perhaps in sections, but not along the full corridor. TCR needs their dedicated two, and there's no way the existing two lines are going away. Elevating the two new lines are the way to go to avoid having to use eminent domain.

Trenching would disrupt the UP and BNSF operations on their trackage there more than elevation would. They would likely not agree to this.

Both of these statements are incorrect.

With a trench and cap or partial cap, you can get your desired 4 tracks in the trench while having either light rail or roads as an overhang / cap on top.

The trenching would be down in stages and can be done w/ minimum effect to train operations.

The idea that the elevated section would be anything other than what the METRO is going to build for the LR in the 2nd ward is laughable. It will be done the cheapest way possible and look like the HOV section that goes from I10 to downtown. An elevated track here will be an eyesore for the community, further divide SN22, and suppress home values along the tracks even further.

Even if we were to trench, would the company bear the brunt of a trench and cap? No. It's too cost prohibitive. Literally might cost as much to trench this section as the whole other 200+ miles. TXDot, UP/BNSF, TCR, METRO, and the city will have to go in on this together..... which almost assuredly means that this will never happen. 

So b/c we want to do the elevated section on the cheap..... NIMBY's will rightfully fight the project...... So then the TCR will back away from this alignment.... and we get a station at Northwest mall.

Thank you.  I actually wrote DallasHoustonHSR yesterday and they responded that more detailed county by county maps will be posted on their website by mid week.   So hopefully that will give me a more zoomed in view I am looking for.

Because most of us here are 'city folk' and have no land in the country, I'd be curious if you'd give us some of your concerns as a rural land owner.

Would having a high speed train through your property be a major inconvenience? What kind of concessions would you accept if it indeed had to go through your property?