OMG The Appraisal District SUCKS!

[Mark Resident]

I was helping a freind in my building protest his 1/1/09 appraisal. HCAD appraised his place $45000 higher than an official appraisal he had done in April 09. This so called "impartial" panel ignored everything I had to say and/or documentation I showed them. They said the appraisal was "too late in the year" (3 months after Jan 1) but in coming up with THEIR appraisal, they compared his unit to properties sold in Jan and Feb 08, 10 MONTHS before end of year AND before the economy tanked, home values hit the skids, the hurricane, the mortgage crisis, etc.etc. I asked for an explanation for the inconsistancy; I got none. And, when they couldn't find any units similar to his that sold near the end of the year for what his was appraised at, they included units on lower floors that sold for half as much and then came up with an "adjusted sales value" that was considerably higher. One unit on the second floor had a selling price of $205000 and an "adjusted selling price" of $351000. I asked them how they came up with that and was told they "dont have this information available". In other words "we pulled these numbers out of our asses and we don't have to tell you anything about how we did it"-- which is certainly fair, dont you think?

The whole process was so slanted against the protestor it was unbeleivable. They shut down any serious attepmts at discussion with with half baked answers or they would keep repeating "we are running out of time" or "we must move on". The whole thing took about 10 minutes. What a waste of taxpayor money, going through the motion of doing something just to say "see, we are fair, we give you a chance to prove us wrong!" And, if this wasn't bad enough, when we were finished, one panel member, a rather old caucasion man, made a snarky comment to my freind, pointing to some literature that explains the arbitration process, that it was available in both english and spanish (my freind is asian and didn't say much because oh his limited english speaking skills) . It was just all one big joke. I really want to follow up on this with some kind of action but dont know what. Is this pretty standard fare fot treating people by the Appraisal district?

[editor]

There are quite a few people on HAIF with experience protesting their appraisals. Hopefully you'll hear from one of them soon.

[Flashman]

My experience with HCAD (I assume you are in Harris County) has been much different. I am not a professional appraiser, and have protested my appraisal at least 10 times.

IN all but the last three years I have has success with the informal appraisal. In preparation, I use the information supplied online (did you have this information?) which very precisely describes the adjustements to the sales values of adjacent properties. (I live in The Montrose, so many adjustments are needed. There are few comparable houses to ours that get sold. We live in a house built in 1915 by Joe Stewart of Stewart and Stevenson. That is it in my thumbnail).

The last three years I have been to the panel and have found them reasonable, rational, and - dare I say it - friendly. They looked at my arguments (using their data) and while they did not give me exactly what I asked for, they did come close.

I am sorry that you had the opposite experience.

[Mark Resident]

My experience with HCAD (I assume you are in Harris County) has been much different. I am not a professional appraiser, and have protested my appraisal at least 10 times.

IN all but the last three years I have has success with the informal appraisal. In preparation, I use the information supplied online (did you have this information?) which very precisely describes the adjustements to the sales values of adjacent properties. (I live in The Montrose, so many adjustments are needed. There are few comparable houses to ours that get sold. We live in a house built in 1915 by Joe Stewart of Stewart and Stevenson. That is it in my thumbnail).

The last three years I have been to the panel and have found them reasonable, rational, and - dare I say it - friendly. They looked at my arguments (using their data) and while they did not give me exactly what I asked for, they did come close.

I am sorry that you had the opposite experience.

I had sales data on all the units sold in the building. There are 300 units and they are all very similar except for sq feet and elevation (30 floors in the building) Instead of using actual sales on the higher floors (where my freind's unit is ) they took sales on the lower floors, which sold for less money due to the lower elevation, and then "adjusted" them to be comparable to his unit (i.e., if the unit were moved to a higher floor, what would it be worth?) and then came up with ridiculously high dollar values. When I asked them to explain there methodology, they conveniently plead ignorance.

There have been some units that have sold on the higher floors but they chose to ignore those sales, even though they were comperable; because, their way came up with a higher number. And then, conveniently, they don't have to explain why. I was really very irritated by the whole process... It just seem like a complete sham. And then they completely ignore his appraisal done in April (by a professional appraisor) saying it was too late in the year(three month later) Very lame...

[Flashman]

Professional appraisors don't have any bearing on tax appraisals.

You have one more level of appeal, unless I am mistaken. You should certainly take it!

[TheNiche]

I was helping a freind in my building protest his 1/1/09 appraisal. HCAD appraised his place $45000 higher than an official appraisal he had done in April 09. This so called "impartial" panel ignored everything I had to say and/or documentation I showed them. They said the appraisal was "too late in the year" (3 months after Jan 1) but in coming up with THEIR appraisal, they compared his unit to properties sold in Jan and Feb 08, 10 MONTHS before end of year AND before the economy tanked, home values hit the skids, the hurricane, the mortgage crisis, etc.etc. I asked for an explanation for the inconsistancy; I got none. And, when they couldn't find any units similar to his that sold near the end of the year for what his was appraised at, they included units on lower floors that sold for half as much and then came up with an "adjusted sales value" that was considerably higher. One unit on the second floor had a selling price of $205000 and an "adjusted selling price" of $351000. I asked them how they came up with that and was told they "dont have this information available". In other words "we pulled these numbers out of our asses and we don't have to tell you anything about how we did it"-- which is certainly fair, dont you think?

The whole process was so slanted against the protestor it was unbeleivable. They shut down any serious attepmts at discussion with with half baked answers or they would keep repeating "we are running out of time" or "we must move on". The whole thing took about 10 minutes. What a waste of taxpayor money, going through the motion of doing something just to say "see, we are fair, we give you a chance to prove us wrong!" And, if this wasn't bad enough, when we were finished, one panel member, a rather old caucasion man, made a snarky comment to my freind, pointing to some literature that explains the arbitration process, that it was available in both english and spanish (my freind is asian and didn't say much because oh his limited english speaking skills) . It was just all one big joke. I really want to follow up on this with some kind of action but dont know what. Is this pretty standard fare fot treating people by the Appraisal district?

Having had my own opinion of value disrespected at the ARB hearings, I understand your frustration, however you have to understand that these guys aren't there to explain why. They cannot possibly know what the adjustment methodology is for every single neighborhood in Harris County. Their place is to assess the evidence that you bring before them as compared to the evidence that the HCAD representative can present and to evaluate the merit of each party's opinion of value. Additionally, there are only so many different routes by way of which value can be assessed for tax purposes, and they are obligated to abide by the rules.

I'd be pissed off about the rules in your situation too, mind you. The thing about not accepting your appraisal is assinine. But that's not the ARB's place to judge. To the extent that they were trying to give you the brush-off, they probably were. Unless you had an argument to present that was based on accepted valuation principles (and it doesn't sound like you did) then you were wasting their time. Also, bear in mind that the panel is comprised of private citzens appointed by elected officials, not employees of HCAD or even related to any HCAD employees, and are paid for their time only, regardless of their decisions; the only person representing the government's view was the HCAD representative, and his purpose in life is to prevent values from being lowered and to ensure that more tax revenue can be raised...which is to say that he enables wasteful spending but does not participate in it directly.

You have one more level of appeal, unless I am mistaken. You should certainly take it!

Just bear in mind that there is a non-recoverable $500 fee involved to enter arbitration. Make sure that it is a worthwhile pursuit before you initiate that step.

[house567]

I agree with you Mark Resident. HCAD needs improvement.

I wrote the following letter sent (certified mail) after my protest on July 6. I did not receive a reply.

July 6, 2009

Dr. Oliver Esch, Chair

Harris County Appraisal Review Board

13013 Northwest Fwy

Houston, TX 77040

Dear Dr. Esch;

I feel a grave injustice was committed this morning (July, 6, 2009, 8:10 am) as I attempted to present my evidence for my property tax protest to the ARB.

1. No where in the HCAD website, or in HCAD literature that I received, does it say that “Formal hearings will be limited to 15 minutes.” When a homeowner is attempting to protect (in most cases) their largest personal expense of a lifetime, 15 minutes is an injustice.

2. After reading ALL the HCAD information about the Protest Process, and after viewing the HCAD suggested video from the HCAD website home page, “How to Present Your Case at an Appraisal Review Board Hearing”, I assembled a twelve minute Microsoft Powerpoint presentation which I felt would accurately, adequately, and succinctly inform the ARB panel of my situation.

My short presentation contained time-stamp photographs, diagrams of changing traffic flow, graphs, and tables crucial to my case and suggested by the “How to Present Your Case at an Appraisal Review Board Hearing” video. I had practiced and was ready to assemble my laptop, extra monitor and small speakers for the panel (so that they would not have to move an inch to accommodate viewing) and necessary electrical cords in less than 60 seconds. I also had the HCAD required four copies of evidence (each one labeled for three panel members and HCAD appraiser). I also had four copies of a typed outline “general points” in case my laptop chose not to work.

To my horror, upon entering the ARB room, I was told that I could not present my evidence with multi-media.

At NO time during my informal hearing (a week earlier) was I told that multimedia was disallowed.

Nowhere on the HCAD literature or website does it say that multimedia is disallowed.

I found it sarcastic and unjust that the appraiser during my formal meeting WAS allowed to use her computer to present evidence against me by showing the panel photographs and area maps.

For these just reasons I feel I should be allowed to re-present my case after I have time to select and print (at great expense) designated photographs, tables, and diagrams. I have always tried to work within the rules and prepare in earnest. However, not being apprized of the “rules” (invisible as they may be) makes the tax protest process a sham.

[missjanel]

Just bear in mind that there is a non-recoverable $500 fee involved to enter arbitration. Make sure that it is a worthwhile pursuit before you initiate that step.

This is not entirely true. I did not appeal this year like I had planned but my understanding is that you pay the $500 to begin the arbitration process. If you win your case $450 is refunded to you. However you must file for arbitration within 45 days of your ARB hearing.

[BryanS]

I agree with you Mark Resident. HCAD needs improvement.

I wrote the following letter sent (certified mail) after my protest on July 6. I did not receive a reply.

July 6, 2009

Dr. Oliver Esch, Chair

Harris County Appraisal Review Board

13013 Northwest Fwy

Houston, TX 77040

Dear Dr. Esch;

I feel a grave injustice was committed this morning (July, 6, 2009, 8:10 am) as I attempted to present my evidence for my property tax protest to the ARB.

1. No where in the HCAD website, or in HCAD literature that I received, does it say that “Formal hearings will be limited to 15 minutes.” When a homeowner is attempting to protect (in most cases) their largest personal expense of a lifetime, 15 minutes is an injustice.

2. After reading ALL the HCAD information about the Protest Process, and after viewing the HCAD suggested video from the HCAD website home page, “How to Present Your Case at an Appraisal Review Board Hearing”, I assembled a twelve minute Microsoft Powerpoint presentation which I felt would accurately, adequately, and succinctly inform the ARB panel of my situation.

My short presentation contained time-stamp photographs, diagrams of changing traffic flow, graphs, and tables crucial to my case and suggested by the “How to Present Your Case at an Appraisal Review Board Hearing” video. I had practiced and was ready to assemble my laptop, extra monitor and small speakers for the panel (so that they would not have to move an inch to accommodate viewing) and necessary electrical cords in less than 60 seconds. I also had the HCAD required four copies of evidence (each one labeled for three panel members and HCAD appraiser). I also had four copies of a typed outline “general points” in case my laptop chose not to work.

To my horror, upon entering the ARB room, I was told that I could not present my evidence with multi-media.

At NO time during my informal hearing (a week earlier) was I told that multimedia was disallowed.

Nowhere on the HCAD literature or website does it say that multimedia is disallowed.

I found it sarcastic and unjust that the appraiser during my formal meeting WAS allowed to use her computer to present evidence against me by showing the panel photographs and area maps.

For these just reasons I feel I should be allowed to re-present my case after I have time to select and print (at great expense) designated photographs, tables, and diagrams. I have always tried to work within the rules and prepare in earnest. However, not being apprized of the “rules” (invisible as they may be) makes the tax protest process a sham.

You've gone about this all wrong.

You work up these "expensive" photos, tables, diagrams... put it on a laptop computer.... you go through all that... and you want the City to lower your taxes? You just spent the difference on any tax savings on a fancy multi-media PowerPoint presentation!

You need to make your point through much more lower tech, rudimentary means.

1.) For an entire year... let the shrubs in your yard grow wild... but not too wild... Just enough to make the place slightly scary. Just enough to give the message: "Do not enter here." This sends the message that the home owner is some kind of financial and/or mental stress in that s/he is no longer capable of maintaining proper appearances (kinda like the overworked IT guy in your office.) Keep it like this for year - so that when HCAD comes around - they get the proper money shot: one of an unkempt, scary house.

2.) Start some interior renovations, but none that require permits. Start knocking out a dining room wall - but don't go over the top. Just knock a few holes in the drywall like what you would see from rough renters. Violently re-arrange the furniture in your house, like renters. Take up the floor coverings. Somewhere in the house, you're going to find a crack of some sort in the slab. Most of the time, you don't have to worry about these. Don't push them in saying you have a "cracked slab" - cause they'll mark your tax record... but just enough high light the concern. But take pictures of all this.

3.) The day before you are scheduled to appear, go help someone move out of their house - or go rollerblading, without any protective gear. As sure as the sun does rise, you will be extremely sore the next morning. You will not have normal, physical movements. You will look like someone who is in pain. And you will be.

4.) The day of your protest... do not wear - under any circumstances - any type of business dress. No coat and tie. Not even business casual. No laptop. Comb your hair, but not fully. If you are going to talk face-to-face with the board, eat a highly offensive breakfast - and do not brush your teeth. Along the same lines of bad personal hygiene, consider changing the oil in your car the night before - and leave the oil under your fingernails. We're trying to match the person to the home.

5.) Take a few pages of hand-written notes (large print – no cursive), wrinkled and coffee-stained, and 3 or 4 Polaroid pictures - just slightly out of focus. The more amateur, the better. Carry on about the plight of you... and your home.

[Mark Resident]

Having had my own opinion of value disrespected at the ARB hearings, I understand your frustration, however you have to understand that these guys aren't there to explain why. They cannot possibly know what the adjustment methodology is for every single neighborhood in Harris County. Their place is to assess the evidence that you bring before them as compared to the evidence that the HCAD representative can present and to evaluate the merit of each party's opinion of value. Additionally, there are only so many different routes by way of which value can be assessed for tax purposes, and they are obligated to abide by the rules.

I'd be pissed off about the rules in your situation too, mind you. The thing about not accepting your appraisal is assinine. But that's not the ARB's place to judge. To the extent that they were trying to give you the brush-off, they probably were. Unless you had an argument to present that was based on accepted valuation principles (and it doesn't sound like you did) then you were wasting their time. Also, bear in mind that the panel is comprised of private citzens appointed by elected officials, not employees of HCAD or even related to any HCAD employees, and are paid for their time only, regardless of their decisions; the only person representing the government's view was the HCAD representative, and his purpose in life is to prevent values from being lowered and to ensure that more tax revenue can be raised...which is to say that he enables wasteful spending but does not participate in it directly.

Just bear in mind that there is a non-recoverable $500 fee involved to enter arbitration. Make sure that it is a worthwhile pursuit before you initiate that step.

They don't have to explain how they come up with a number? Nothing in my building sold for more than $300k since last summer when the last penthouse for sale, sold. As you get to the end of the year, the numbers really drop off. They appraise as of 1/1/09 so you would think they would look at the numbers at that time. Yet they take a condo that sold for $205000 in October and develop an "adjusted sales price" of $351000. It has no relationship with reality. And there is an HCAD representative there, why doesn't he explain it? He isn't allowed to say anything apparently. I'm not asking for an explanation for appraisal methodology for every neighborhood in Harris County, just mine. Is that really that difficult?

Why don't they have to explain why? I didn't make any numbers up, I just brought in "real" sales data to make my case. It doesn;'t get much more real than that?

By the way, what constitutes an "accepted valuation principle". Real sales data and an apprasial by a third party does not?

Thanks for your response... I am just trying to understand the process.

[Mark Resident]

Professional appraisors don't have any bearing on tax appraisals.

You have one more level of appeal, unless I am mistaken. You should certainly take it!

Why do professional appraisals have no bearing...??? Without some type of proffesional opinion about the value of your property, how do you support your case?

Thanks for your input...

[BryanS]

They don't have to explain how they come up with a number? Nothing in my building sold for more than $300k since last summer when the last penthouse for sale, sold. As you get to the end of the year, the numbers really drop off. They appraise as of 1/1/09 so you would think they would look at the numbers at that time. Yet they take a condo that sold for $205000 in October and develop an "adjusted sales price" of $351000. It has no relationship with reality. And there is an HCAD representative there, why doesn't he explain it? He isn't allowed to say anything apparently. I'm not asking for an explanation for appraisal methodology for every neighborhood in Harris County, just mine. Is that really that difficult?

Why don't they have to explain why? I didn't make any numbers up, I just brought in "real" sales data to make my case. It doesn;'t get much more real than that?

By the way, what constitutes an "accepted valuation principle". Real sales data and an apprasial by a third party does not?

Thanks for your response... I am just trying to understand the process.

Which building? What condos are you talking about? We have several people on HAIF that can pull data that might explain a lot. Did any unit in the building sell for more than 351K? Any of them? The penthouses?

For example, Tremont Towers... everything went into foreclosure - but the city will not accept foreclosed sales as valid sales. They don't. Also, other non-foreclosure type of sales, atypical of the building, won't hold water either. If I bought my unit for 300K and out of generosity I sell it to you for 150K, that doesn't count either.

At one point I was looking at some townhouses, and all of the units sold in the 350K range. I found a foreclosure in the low 200's. Even if I had bought that place for 220's, my tax bill would be comparable to the other units (300's).

[kylejack]

Which building? What condos are you talking about? We have several people on HAIF that can pull data that might explain a lot. Did any unit in the building sell for more than 351K? Any of them? The penthouses?

Presumably he's in the Mark Condos, 3505 Sage.

[Mark Resident]

Presumably he's in the Mark Condos, 3505 Sage.

Yup......

[BryanS]

How interesting.

3505 Sage.

A general description of building:

Homes at The Mark feature:

-Breathtaking skyline views (varies per unit)

-Sparkling swimmng pool and recreation area

-Business Centers

-Lush landscaped courtyard with reflection benches

-Soaring 10 foot ceilings

-Unified concrete construction

-"Ultra-Quiet" soundproofing system

-Private garages available

-Private storage available

-Perimeter cameras

-High-speed traction elevators

-Full building coverage fire sprinkler system

Number of Units: 301

Number of Floors: 30

Number of Penthouses: 6

Year Built: 2001

http://www.highrises...he-mark-condos/

...so 301 units...

Go to HCAD. Put in "3505 Sage" ... "View All"

The highest appriased unit is Unit #5 on the 30th floor at $472K. And then as you go down from 30th to the first, the appriased values go down to 134K. Those values are consistent with this MLS page:

Mark Condo Listings

High of 599K down to 123K. Only two listings are below 135K (those people would have a better case at protesting). The majority are well above 135K. Oh... and note... the one for sale for 599K - is appraised at 472K (Unit 3005).

Looking at the HCAD values... and the MLS listings... both seem to be fairly in sync. The non-independent "professional" appraisal of 45K less than the HCAD/MLS values is where the problem lies.

What floor are we talking about here? If we're talking the upper floors, near the very top... and nothing is for sale up there... but there was a comparable sale floors below... using that sale + adjusting for the floor difference + the existing values of the other units at/near the same level (in the upper floors)... you can easily come up with an appraised value of 351K - for the upper units.

I don't see the claimed inconsistencies here. All the data is too uniform.

[Mark Resident]

How interesting.

3505 Sage.

A general description of building:

Homes at The Mark feature:

-Breathtaking skyline views (varies per unit)

-Sparkling swimmng pool and recreation area

-Business Centers

-Lush landscaped courtyard with reflection benches

-Soaring 10 foot ceilings

-Unified concrete construction

-"Ultra-Quiet" soundproofing system

-Private garages available

-Private storage available

-Perimeter cameras

-High-speed traction elevators

-Full building coverage fire sprinkler system

Number of Units: 301

Number of Floors: 30

Number of Penthouses: 6

Year Built: 2001

http://www.highrises...he-mark-condos/

...so 301 units...

Go to HCAD. Put in "3505 Sage" ... "View All"

The highest appriased unit is Unit #5 on the 30th floor at $472K. And then as you go down from 30th to the first, the appriased values go down to 134K. Those values are consistent with this MLS page:

Mark Condo Listings

High of 599K down to 123K. Only two listings are below 135K (those people would have a better case at protesting). The majority are well above 135K. Oh... and note... the one for sale for 599K - is appraised at 472K (Unit 3005).

Looking at the HCAD values... and the MLS listings... both seem to be fairly in sync. The non-independent "professional" appraisal of 45K less than the HCAD/MLS values is where the problem lies.

What floor are we talking about here? If we're talking the upper floors, near the very top... and nothing is for sale up there... but there was a comparable sale floors below... using that sale + adjusting for the floor difference + the existing values of the other units at/near the same level (in the upper floors)... you can easily come up with an appraised value of 351K - for the upper units.

I don't see the claimed inconsistencies here. All the data is too uniform.

You may want to look a little closer... There are two big penthouse units for sale. One for $999K and one for $599K. The 599 is an empty shell. The 999 is completed. Both have nearly same sq feet. Both are valued at $472K by the HCAD. Yup. They (especially the $999k unit) got a good deal from HCAD. There are only two other units for sale with an asking price above $300K. One small penthouse that just went on the market for about $350k and one on the 20+floor for 325. The 325 has been on the market for about 6 months. As i said, nothing has sold for anything close to $300k since last summer, and that includes sales of units on the higher floors. It is SALES that counts, not SALES LISTINGS...

[TheNiche]

They don't have to explain how they come up with a number? Nothing in my building sold for more than $300k since last summer when the last penthouse for sale, sold. As you get to the end of the year, the numbers really drop off. They appraise as of 1/1/09 so you would think they would look at the numbers at that time. Yet they take a condo that sold for $205000 in October and develop an "adjusted sales price" of $351000. It has no relationship with reality. And there is an HCAD representative there, why doesn't he explain it? He isn't allowed to say anything apparently. I'm not asking for an explanation for appraisal methodology for every neighborhood in Harris County, just mine. Is that really that difficult?

Why don't they have to explain why? I didn't make any numbers up, I just brought in "real" sales data to make my case. It doesn;'t get much more real than that?

By the way, what constitutes an "accepted valuation principle". Real sales data and an apprasial by a third party does not?

Thanks for your response... I am just trying to understand the process.

Yes, that is too much to expect that you receive an explanation of their valuation methodology. As I already explained, the board members are not employees of HCAD. They have a decent understanding of the rationale underlying a valuation, however they are not HCAD appraisers and do not and cannot have every coefficient for every formula in every neighborhood memorized, nor could they be expected to successfully articulate the neighborhood-level methodology by glancing at a set of formulas. Appraisals are complicated things; that's part of why it's easy for them to be wrong.

The HCAD representative can talk and does talk when there's something for him to talk about, but in your case--honestly--I just don't think that you went about protesting using an accepted method. Go to the HCAD website and review the documents that they've got posted on the ARB hearings. If you want to be an expert on the process, you can buy this book or you can use the accepted valuation methods summarized here.

One of the things you have to understand, as well, is that the State of Texas does not force property owners to report the sales price to the local appraisal district; this is very different from most other states that levy property taxes, where reporting is compulsory. As a result, HCAD does not receive sales data for most transactions and they have to fill in the gaps using statistical analysis. There are even cases where HCAD has no sales comps within one neighborhood and dips into nearby a neighborhoods' data to fill in the gaps. I recently helped a friend whose property was in the City of Houston and HCAD's comps were all from within the City of Bellaire...and that quarter-mile made all the difference (the HCAD rep at the ARB hearing revealed exactly which comps they'd used, btw, and from that evidence the ARB members were very accepting of the argument being presented to them). Although frustrating, you can use this to your advantage, but only if you follow the rules.

Show them respect, don't waste their time, maintain a meekish kind of professionalism, and follow the rules. It sucks, but that's how the game is played.

[BryanS]

You may want to look a little closer... There are two big penthouse units for sale. One for $999K and one for $599K. The 599 is an empty shell. The 999 is completed. Both have nearly same sq feet. Both are valued at $472K by the HCAD. Yup. They (especially the $999k unit) got a good deal from HCAD. There are only two other units for sale with an asking price above $300K. One small penthouse that just went on the market for about $350k and one on the 20+floor for 325. The 325 has been on the market for about 6 months. As i said, nothing has sold for anything close to $300k since last summer, and that includes sales of units on the higher floors. It is SALES that counts, not SALES LISTINGS...

Yes, sales. Speaking of sales...

How much did your friend pay for his/her unit, when they bought it? 300? 325? 350? Over 375?

We can only guess that your friend has a unit above the 20th floor and the tax district thinks it is worth 351K. If it is near the top (27/28/29+), 350's-ish seems reasonable.

With high-rises... there are the very top floors... and then everything else. Given that the median tax appraised is in the 190's... the fact that nothing has sold in the 300's is really of no surprise. The very top floors, however, the prices could be all over the place - and they are.

[Mark Resident]

Yes, sales. Speaking of sales...

How much did your friend pay for his/her unit, when they bought it? 300? 325? 350? Over 375?

We can only guess that your friend has a unit above the 20th floor and the tax district thinks it is worth 351K. If it is near the top (27/28/29+), 350's-ish seems reasonable.

With high-rises... there are the very top floors... and then everything else. Given that the median tax appraised is in the 190's... the fact that nothing has sold in the 300's is really of no surprise. The very top floors, however, the prices could be all over the place - and they are.

He paid a whole lot more than it was worth on December 31st, that's for sure...

Lets see... from Jan 1 2008 to the present, the highest amount paid for a unit at the Mark was 260000 other than a penthouse that sold for 325k. It was a unit on the 27th floor with 1401 square feet and is very comparable to my freinds unit. It also has the best view. You will find little difference between this unit and any on the 28 or 29 floors. I live there; I would know. It was sold in May 2008; before the financial crisis. Now, armed with that knowledge and you see a unit on the 2nd floor "grossed up" to $351,000, as presented by the appraisal district, what would your reaction be? How about "where did THAT number come from? "I'm sorry sir I don't have this information available and, gosh, we seem to be running out of time and we have to make a decision right now"!!! "Can't that guy on the other side of the table tell me?" No, he has already had his turn to speak". Come on... that's total BS!

[kylejack]

He paid a whole lot more than it was worth on December 31st, that's for sure...

Lets see... from Jan 1 2008 to the present, the highest amount paid for a unit at the Mark was 260000 other than a penthouse that sold for 325k. It was a unit on the 27th floor with 1401 square feet and is very comparable to my freinds unit. It also has the best view. You will find little difference between this unit and any on the 28 or 29 floors. I live there; I would know. It was sold in May 2008; before the financial crisis. Now, armed with that knowledge and you see a unit on the 2nd floor "grossed up" to $351,000, as presented by the appraisal district, what would your reaction be? How about "where did THAT number come from? "I'm sorry sir I don't have this information available and, gosh, we seem to be running out of time and we have to make a decision right now"!!! "Can't that guy on the other side of the table tell me?" No, he has already had his turn to speak". Come on... that's total BS!

Home values started declining in Houston in Q2 2007, like a rock.

[20thStDad]

Home values started declining in Houston in Q2 2007, like a rock.

Where? That's when we bought our house, and there isn't jack in our price range available any more around here.

I think prices have held steady or risen, it's the inventory that has suffered. There is so little to choose from, the good stuff goes quickly and the stuff you keep seeing on searches is unsold for a reason. We did get a nice unsolicited reduction in appraised value, thanks for that.

[Mark Resident]

Yes, that is too much to expect that you receive an explanation of their valuation methodology. As I already explained, the board members are not employees of HCAD. They have a decent understanding of the rationale underlying a valuation, however they are not HCAD appraisers and do not and cannot have every coefficient for every formula in every neighborhood memorized, nor could they be expected to successfully articulate the neighborhood-level methodology by glancing at a set of formulas. Appraisals are complicated things; that's part of why it's easy for them to be wrong.

The HCAD representative can talk and does talk when there's something for him to talk about, but in your case--honestly--I just don't think that you went about protesting using an accepted method. Go to the HCAD website and review the documents that they've got posted on the ARB hearings. If you want to be an expert on the process, you can buy this book or you can use the accepted valuation methods summarized here.

One of the things you have to understand, as well, is that the State of Texas does not force property owners to report the sales price to the local appraisal district; this is very different from most other states that levy property taxes, where reporting is compulsory. As a result, HCAD does not receive sales data for most transactions and they have to fill in the gaps using statistical analysis. There are even cases where HCAD has no sales comps within one neighborhood and dips into nearby a neighborhoods' data to fill in the gaps. I recently helped a friend whose property was in the City of Houston and HCAD's comps were all from within the City of Bellaire...and that quarter-mile made all the difference (the HCAD rep at the ARB hearing revealed exactly which comps they'd used, btw, and from that evidence the ARB members were very accepting of the argument being presented to them). Although frustrating, you can use this to your advantage, but only if you follow the rules.

Show them respect, don't waste their time, maintain a meekish kind of professionalism, and follow the rules. It sucks, but that's how the game is played.

"Too much to ask"?? Sorry, I don't buy it... The "third party" appraisor did the same types of adjustments by making comparisons with other units in the building, allowing for differences in sq feets, upgrades, and elevation. It was very clear from his data sheet how he came up with his adjustments; and...... they were reasonable. This information could have been made available very easily if HCAD wanted to make it available. Of course, keeping the "unbiased" panel in the dark does make for a convenient excuse...

As for respect; everyone wants to be treated with respect, but it works both ways. The kind of arrogance that I saw on display during this hearing when (certain) panel members were deliberately playing stupid when I would point out discrepancies or trying to run out the clock to avoid any kind of explanation for how the did things was punctuated by the panel members sarcastic remark about the how the arbitration rules were "available in both English and Spanish" which was directed at my freind who is asian. There was no mistaking his attitude when he said it. This kind of behavior is neither respectful nor is this person deserving of respect.

[kylejack]

This kind of behavior is neither respectful nor is this person deserving of respect.

Well if you're not willing to bite the bullet and show respect to the people that have this kind of power over the appraised value, why are you complaining? You're standing on principle that he is not deserving of respect. You've baked your cake, now eat it.

[Mark Resident]

Well if you're not willing to bite the bullet and show respect to the people that have this kind of power over the appraised value, why are you complaining? You're standing on principle that he is not deserving of respect. You've baked your cake, now eat it.

What a stupid comment...

I'm saying that people like that do not deserve respect. His comment came at the end of the meeting. I was respectful (as was my freind), throughout the entire meeting. I was frustrated when they started their double talk but it did not matter by that time.

[HoustonOrange]

What a stupid comment...

I'm saying that people like that do not deserve respect. His comment came at the end of the meeting. I was respectful (as was my freind), throughout the entire meeting. I was frustrated when they started their double talk but it did not matter by that time.

I do happen to be a professional appraiser and a registered arbitrator as well. I'm with you Mark. The things I've seen HCAD present are legit, buth when the property owner presents a similar argument - it's not acceptable in their eyes. Almost forget - I also worked at HCAD for a year as an appraiser. The ARB comes under attack from the "higher ups" if they start slashing values too much. I've seen all sides.

[4RingsCircus]

Home values started declining in Houston in Q2 2007, like a rock.

Where do you live? The value of my home, and those in my neighborhood have gone up for the past 4 years, slightly slower pace this year (2009) but certainly 2007 to 2008 was a steep climb... I have to say its the same for 3 other people I know, inclines in prices (real sales prices) in their neighborhoods.

As for the original poster...

This is very discouraging news, I have appealed mine in the past (not drastic changes) without issue. I did not appeal this year, although I should have.... Your post gives me some concern coming into next year, when I fully expect to have to appeal to bring mine back inline with my fellow neighbors.