In the need of some advice...

[ricco67]

Okay guys.....I need a bit of impartial advice.

I am looking to buy an HDTV and upgrade my cable for it, but there are a few things though...

First off, I have a TIVO with a lifetime subscription that I KNOW can't record in HDTV. no biggie, figured I'd upgrade the storage and Ebay it. No biggie. (it'll probably go for about $600 or so)

Then I thought about it and figured I don't really NEED the cable package since I'll probably just watch movies on it to use the aspect ratio (which is AWESOME!) properly....therefore, I'd keep my beloved TIVO....

I was thinking about purchasing a NEWER TIVO that can record HDTV, but then I'd have to buy an additional subscription for the TIVO. The thought of giving cable MORE of my money doesn't appeal to me, as illogical as that sounds....

Basically it's this...if I purchase the TV and NOT get the HDTV package, but would only enjoy the full picture while watching DVD's would this bring harm to the TV.

Believe me, I've been debating back and forth to the point I'm dizzy.

maybe a fresh perspective might help me out before I make my final decision..

[Montrose1100]

Here is what I would do...

Sell everything, except keep the tv u have, and only get basic cable. Save up that money for a wonderful vacation you could take in the not so far future, or go blow it on something you've always wanted!

As hypocritical as this might sound - Because the Internet is probibly worse then T.V. - But I think it's a beautiful world out there, and should not be seen from behind a screen.

[Jeebus]

Pre-Post Edit: Okay, it's the 4th and I'm bored, so I typed the following impartial editorial over HDTV. I re-read your post before I posted this one, and realize you just want to know whether watching DVD's in their native aspect-ratio (which I would assume is 16:9 or widescreen) will harm the widescreen tv, to which the answer is no. Oh, if your DVD's are full-screen versions, then depending on the DVD player, they might automatically stretch to fill the widescreen tv. I have a Sony DVD player that does this. If anyone knows how to get it to play 4:3 movies in 4:3 without stretching them, please let me know. FYI - I've been through the menu a hundred times. If your DVD player does play in 4:3, and that's the format of your movies, then you risk burn-in (depending on whether you get a plasma) from the black vertical matte aspect-ratio bars that would frame your 4:3 picture. Read below for more info if bored!

Original Post..

Okay, you're looking at HDTV. First is choosing what type of technology. Obviously a DLP, Plasma, or LCD correct? If space is not an issue, I recommend the DLP. Half the depth and weight of a conventional TV, this makes the most sense as a replacement. Only consider Plasma or LCD is space is an obvious issue, you want to mount it, or are just one of those (like me) who want the coolest stuff to needlessly show off.

Secondly, size and resolution. There are some different formats to look for. Ignore the pimple faced teenager at Best Buy. He is wrong, I don't care what he tells you, trust me, he is incorrect. There are 3 different standards: SD, ED, & HD.

Standard Definition (SD) is what you're watching at home right now on your old heavyweight CRT tube-tv. It offers 480 lines of resolution interlaced, or 480i. This is what all channels & networks have broadcast at up until advent of HD.

Enhanced Definition (ED) is what you're DVD's are. ED offers 480 lines of resolution progressive. You've seen the catch phrase that sells DVD players "progressive scan"? Hold on, this is where it gets tricky. Interlaced pictures are pictures that contain a left field of odd lines, and a right field of even lines. Interlaced tvs, show you Field A, then Field B one after another, creating each frame of motion. Progressive however, takes both Field A and Field B and lays them together for a better image. This is ED or 480p.

High Definition is the same as Ed, except that it offers a higher resolution for more detail. The low end of HD is 720 lines horizontal, that is also progressive, or 720p. Upgrades in HD have produced 1080i, and now 1080p, or 1080 Progressive. 1080i, or interlaced was a "quick fix" of sorts until the industry could perfect 1080p. Now that 1080p is here 1080i's are disappearing off the shelves as older, discontinued models.

Okay, with all that under your belt, you need to choose a actual screen size. I have a 42" plasma with a HDTV tuner built in. This is so that I can unconnect the cable, connect an over-the-air HDTV antenna and catch local HDTV stations (NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, FOX, etc..). Without an HDTV tuner built into your tv, you're basically buying a jumbo computer monitor.

If you're buying under 50 inches, consider ED (480p). The reason why is that one, you'll save hundreds on your tv. Secondly, at optimal viewing distance, with a screen under 50 inches, it is nearly impossible for the naked-eye to distinguish 480p (ED) from 720p (HD). If you are looking at over 50 inches then I suggest spending the money to get 1080p. It's the best, hands down.

My 42" plasma is ED, and I have had friends with larger HD (720p & 1080p) tvs watch mine without being able to tell that they were watching HDTV in ED. Also, DVD's are formated for ED at 480p, so if you do go under 50 inches, there is no reason to buy HD just for your DVD's as you can not increase the native quality of a picture by displaying it on a higher resolution. Also, there are very few HD tv channels available right now, non of which, to my knowledge are broadcasting at minimum HD quality (720p) except maybe Discovery HD. Most are broadcasting at ED (480p).

Finally, Plasma vs LCD.. My vote is to Plasma. I've heard the arguement for LCD, and I've seen the 60 inch, 1080p Plasma vs LCD demo's. I wasn't impressed. LCD still isn't where it should be. The only benefit to LCD i see is that your screen won't burn in if left on still pictures for long times. A good example of this would be if you watch non-HD channels on your HDTV. When doing this, black aspect ratio bars will be on either size to matte the screen picture, which due to being 4:3, will not fill the screen. If you change to a HD channel after watching non-HD tv for a period of time, you will see the aspect ratio bars burned into the HD picture. Fortunately, 3rd generation plasmas are better about this and most come with burn-in protection tools & repair functions.

So you have alot of choices. All narrowed down?

If under 50 inches, go with ED. If over 50 inches go with HD 1080p.

If space is not an issue, go with DLP. If space is an issue, go with Plasma.

Get a tv with a HDTV tuner unless you are 100% sure you will never need it.

Now, as for Tivo? I don't know. I have a DVR, and as of last week hate it. I was defending it in another forum, but TWC seems to be trying to lose me as a customer, so I might be forking out the cash to go HD DirectTV with a DirectTV-DVR.

To anyone that wishes to correct me on anything I posted, feel free. i'm no expert, be rather an enthusiast. If you work at Best Buy, have pimples, are a teenager, and really do know what you're talking about when it comes to home theater - then by all means, post as well!

Edited July 4, 2006 by Jeebus

[ricco67]

Oh Jeez, jeebus!

Well, I have most of the information that you stated, except for the clarity of the ED perhaps being more cost effective if viewed in a relatively small space.

I'm buying a 37-42" Sony HDTV (with built in tuner), the only issue with me is plasma V. LCD as to not only visual quality; but longevity of the picture/TV.

in regards to a DVR, I'd suggest the TIVO, It's absolutely terrific.

In a previous relationship I had a 57" hitachi HDTV and fell in love with it, however, just viewing "regular" TV (like MTV and such) that didn't offer HDTV seemed a bit stretched. Some stations allowed for the "margins" that were animated so you could see the Program without the "stretching" as some stations had a tendency to do.

I guess we're both bored. LOL.

[Jeebus]

I have a 42" Samsung. It was my wifes choice that I conceded to. I was considering that one, the Magnavox with dynamic back lighting, or the best rated Panasonic. What I didn't like about the Sony's is that they seemed over priced. I felt like I was buying it for the Sony nameplate and not the expected level of quality they usually produce. Some consumer ratings sites have since back up my suspicions.

I would recommend one of the three above. They are all excellent and were up for purchase by myself last November. The Magnavox seems to have the lowest quality, but the dynamic back lighting is supposed to make watching tv easier one the eyes (I have no proof, but have read from random reviews as such).

I would also recommend plasma. With a little TLC, the plasma will give you back the brightness, sharpness, & clarity LCD can't yet give you. My Samsung comes with burn-in protection tools & repair tools in the menu that do work, as I've used them quite a bit to counter my wife's extended sessions with non-HD MTV & E! Either way, good luck!

[jm1fd]

If all you're going to do is watch DVDs on it, then you're wasting your money. DVDs don't come close to taking full advantage of the resolution that an HDTV is capable of putting out.

[travelguy_73]

Oh Jeez, jeebus!

Well, I have most of the information that you stated, except for the clarity of the ED perhaps being more cost effective if viewed in a relatively small space.

At this point, spending money on an EDTV (unless you are putting it in a secondary room) is a waste. HD prices are where ED was only two years ago. HD is the future, might as well get the HDTV so that you aren't getting the itch to replace the ED in a year when the HD bug bites you.

I'm buying a 37-42" Sony HDTV (with built in tuner), the only issue with me is plasma V. LCD as to not only visual quality; but longevity of the picture/TV.

Longevity isn't a concern anymore. Early plasmas had burn-in issues, but the current generations don't have this issue assuming you break them in properly. As for what you should buy, it is really up to what looks good to you. I don't care for LCD and DLP just because I think they look grainy. For me, plasma was the hands down winner, though the color blank still doesn't match the saturation on LCDs.

An early-adopter friend of mine bought an HD-DVD player when they first came out. I *really* wanted to like it (have it on my Xmas list) but I have to say that the quality isn't a huge leap over a regular DVD player that has been properly set up (i.e., good cables!).

In a previous relationship I had a 57" hitachi HDTV and fell in love with it, however, just viewing "regular" TV (like MTV and such) that didn't offer HDTV seemed a bit stretched. Some stations allowed for the "margins" that were animated so you could see the Program without the "stretching" as some stations had a tendency to do.

Watching SD on a widescreen plasma (probably any widescreen) borders on painful. I have gotten used to it, but it just doesn't look very good. My Philips Ambilight has a nice automatic stretch that compresses the center of the screen (where the action tends to take place) and stretches the sides to fit the 16:9. Much better than early widescreens which just stretch the whole thing out but still doesn't make me very happy. Thankfully the HD channels are so beautiful that I find myself watching whatever is on HD just to see the clarity (I still don't have an HDTiVO, only an SDTiVo).

I recommend getting on AVS forum and do some research before you buy. Those guys are fanatics and really helped me to make the right decision with my home theater.

[Jeebus]

At this point, spending money on an EDTV (unless you are putting it in a secondary room) is a waste. HD prices are where ED was only two years ago. HD is the future, might as well get the HDTV so that you aren't getting the itch to replace the ED in a year when the HD bug bites you.

This is the only thing I disagree with. You can still save between $400 to $800 dollars by going with ED instead of HD. It won't be until after all stations are forced to HD that you should ever consider ponying up the extra money. Just go to any Sears. They have their HD & ED screens next to each other. You'll never be able to see a difference (remember, under 50 inches only!). For me, I saved $700 dollars by going with ED, which more than paid for a small home theater system.

Longevity isn't a concern anymore. Early plasmas had burn-in issues, but the current generations don't have this issue assuming you break them in properly.

What is the "break-in" amount of time & process?

As for what you should buy, it is really up to what looks good to you. I don't care for LCD and DLP just because I think they look grainy. For me, plasma was the hands down winner, though the color blank still doesn't match the saturation on LCDs.

I think you meant the color black in your post, which I agree with. Blacks & shadows are horrible on plasmas compared to DLP. LCD's just look dull in comparison.

An early-adopter friend of mine bought an HD-DVD player when they first came out. I *really* wanted to like it (have it on my Xmas list) but I have to say that the quality isn't a huge leap over a regular DVD player that has been properly set up (i.e., good cables!).

The problem is that without HD-DVD's (very few on the market - mostly new releases), then the player is worthless.

[travelguy_73]

This is the only thing I disagree with. You can still save between $400 to $800 dollars by going with ED instead of HD. It won't be until after all stations are forced to HD that you should ever consider ponying up the extra money. Just go to any Sears. They have their HD & ED screens next to each other. You'll never be able to see a difference (remember, under 50 inches only!). For me, I saved $700 dollars by going with ED, which more than paid for a small home theater system.

No offense to Sears, but retail outlets rarely have their systems set up properly (with the right equipment and cables). So yeah, an HD set will compare poorly with an ED set if they are both on S-vid cables and showing non-HD programming. With that said, my opinion is that if I am going to spend the money, I want to get something that will last for a number of years. Yes, you can definitely save some money and go with ED, assuming you never wanted to watch HD (isn't that a pretty big assumption?). If I was going to do that, and cabinet depth wasn't an issue, I would just stick with a CRT tube whose SD picture totally blows away most other monitors (of course they are d*nm heavy (my old Toshiba 36" was over 200lbs--thank goodness for Craigslist!)). Besides my 50" Philips, I have an 20" ED Viewsonic (glorified monitor) in my bedroom and it is fine for watching CNBC in the AM, but that's all I ask of it.

What is the "break-in" amount of time & process?

Plasmas are more susceptible to burn-in during their infancy. If you reduce the contrast and brightness below 50% for the first 80-100 hours (vary your programming so that you have lots of variety of colors, shapes, and movement during that time), it will allow the monitor to break-in properly. The peeps over at AVSforum even have a break-in DVD http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....1&post6230381

I think you meant the color black in your post, which I agree with. Blacks & shadows are horrible on plasmas compared to DLP. LCD's just look dull in comparison.

yes, black. The Panasonic and Pioneer ($$) have decent black saturation, but the rest pretty much look like charcoal gray.

The problem is that without HD-DVD's (very few on the market - mostly new releases), then the player is worthless.

For me it isn't the current lack of movies, but the (1) price of those movies, and (2) only a subtle increase in quality of the video. I mean, it looks great all, but it isn't like when you moved from VHS to DVD. Now *that* was a life-altering event! I believe that HD-DVD and Blue-ray are a blip on the home theater radar. It's going to be all about downloading from the'net to a home theater PC and transmitting to your home theater monitor from there. If I want to them burn to a DVD (to take on the road) I'll do it myself.

[Jeebus]

No offense to Sears, but retail outlets rarely have their systems set up properly (with the right equipment and cables). So yeah, an HD set will compare poorly with an ED set if they are both on S-vid cables and showing non-HD programming.

You're correct that they were not hooked up with component cables. I would think the same cable connecting them both, with Discovery HD, would be a fair enough comparison. I'm not looking to compare the optimal quality of the best cabling, I'm looking to compare the resolution of each screen. Having both screens show the same picture is a enough of a controlled experiment in itself. Remember, I'm talking about the 37" & 42" screens. At 6 to 8 feet (optimal viewing range) your eye still can not make out a difference in 480p, to 720p, whether its RGB, S-Vid, RCA, or Co-Ax.

With that said, my opinion is that if I am going to spend the money, I want to get something that will last for a number of years. Yes, you can definitely save some money and go with ED, assuming you never wanted to watch HD (isn't that a pretty big assumption?).

I challenge this opinion as I have an ED screen, and I watch HD programming in perfect clarity. I have yet to have another HD owner question the resolution of my screen. I can't emphasize this enough: Below 50", HD is not distinguishable from ED to the naked eye. Not unless you put an off brand ED model against a reputable brand HD model, or you sit 1 foot from the screens (HD & ED of same manufacture), pausing them both to look for, and then compare possible imperfections. Trust me, I've spent many hours in many stores doing this before I was finally convinced that there is no visible difference between the two.

The last thing to consider is when the FCC is going to require all channels & stations go to HD programming? Until that time you might get 1 or 2 new HD channels a year to add to the 4 free ones, and the 6 to 8 premium ones currently available. It could be five to seven more years be HD becomes manditory. In the meantime what are you going to do with that wasted resolution? DVD's are only 480p, so you're not going to get your money's worth there. Besides, if I had never told you I have EDTV, the only way you could have ever figured it out is by looking at the model number on the serial number tag that says ED4242 - versus its HD counterpart that reads: HD4242.

NOTE: Remember, I'm ONLY speaking of ED & HDTV's UNDER 50 inches.

[Jeebus]

I googled "ED vs HD" and got these links reaffirming my editorial about the benefit of buying an EDTV over a HDTV on models under 50 inches:

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

My point remains, if you're buying under 50 inches (42", 37", or smaller) then save your money and get ED. If you are buying 50 inches or bigger, then skip 720p and go straight to 1080p (both HD).

[texas911]

I just got a true 42" LCD 1080p TV and can tell you that yes you can see the difference. Its one fo the few 1080p TVs available. I then bought a new Sony DVD player that upcoverts DVDs to 1080i. The results are fantastic! The upconvert gets rid of the black letter box bands, but doesn't distort the picture. I also have TimeWarner HD that upconverts to 1080i, and its also very very nice. The one thing you have to do is get HDMI cables because its the only way to get 1080 signals into your TV.

HD is the way to go.

[Jeebus]

I just got a true 42" LCD 1080p TV and can tell you that yes you can see the difference. Its one fo the few 1080p TVs available. I then bought a new Sony DVD player that upcoverts DVDs to 1080i. The results are fantastic! The upconvert gets rid of the black letter box bands, but doesn't distort the picture.

As for upconversion, its more of a "gimmick" than anything. Think about it, how can you increase the native resolution of an image yet keep 100% quality? Simply put, you can't. A good example is anytime you've tried to make a 800x600 image the wallpaper for your 1024x768 display. If you have it fit the screen, you'll see the distortion. So how can a screen that has 1080 lines of resolution make and image with only 480 lines (DVD's), or 720 lines (some HD programming) look better? It can't. At most, some online reviews have reported upconversion simply smoothes out the progressive scan process, eliminating some of the progressive scan lines that can intermittently be seen in fast moving sequences around objects in motion. However, the actual image quality will not improve in clarity, sharpness, or detail.

The letterbox bands should disappear no matter what type of DVD/HDTV combo you have. The only time they won't, is if the film is shot in anything wider than 16:9, which how some production companies shoot. Here's an excerpt from this website:

Here's the problem: any given TV or projector comes in its own native format--typically either 4:3 or 16:9. On the other hand, movies and video come in many different aspect ratio formats. TV programs and videos intended for regular TV are done in 4:3 format, often denoted "1.33" since 4 divided by 3 = 1.33. On the other hand, programs made for HDTV are in 16:9 format, which is 1.78 (16 divided by 9 = 1.78). However, these are not the only two formats that video material comes in. Movies, music videos, and other content on DVD comes in a variety of formats including 1.33, 1.78, 1.85, 2.00, 2.35, 2.4, 2.5, and so on. So there is no universal standard for the rectangular shape of a video picture. But one thing is clear: no matter which format projector you get, either 4:3 or 16:9, it will NOT fit all the video material you will want to watch in its native frame.

I also have TimeWarner HD that upconverts to 1080i, and its also very very nice. The one thing you have to do is get HDMI cables because its the only way to get 1080 signals into your TV.

The reason your TWC HDbox is 1080i, is because a majority of the networks have chosen to broadcast in 1080i. There are a few broadcasting in 720p though. 1080p is said to be on the horizon, and to be to 1080i what 480p is to 480i. As for having to have HDMI cables to get 1080i programming, this is false. Otherwise, I would not be able to watch HD on my EDTV, using component cables! Your HDTV tuner/decoder inside the tv is what allows you to watch 1080i. All EDTV's come with the same HDTV tuner/decoder as HDTV's. The only difference between the two is the on-screen resolution. All HDMI does is improve the quality of the incoming signal.

HD is the way to go.

Without a doubt I agree that HD programming is the way to go. In a few years it will be the only way to go. I'm only advising that one can save a little money by not falling for the trap of purchasing something just because its advertised as "the best". My advice? Take the "1080" 42 inch back and get either a 42" inch ED and save about $1500 dollars. If you have to have the letters "HD" on your tv, then get the 42" 720p HD model and still save at least $1000.00. But know that if you buy the 42" HD, you're only buying the name "HD" to make yourself feel better - so you might as well jump up to 50 inches, and get a 1080p. This way you'll truly be able to enjoy 1080i programming (as little as there actual is available out there).

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bust chops around here. I just hate to see people pay hundreds more for something that is simply not there. I almost bought a 42" HD without even thinking, but luckily I "accidently" found EDTV. After my research, I realized that the electronic comanies are trying to pull yet another "fast-one" on the consumer.

Edited July 6, 2006 by Jeebus

[texas911]

You are wrong, my 1080P TV won't show 1080 material unless its HDMI. HDMI has a security feature that lets it know that you're not hooking up your 1080 source to your computer and copying it. In fact, there are some 1080i HDTVs that can't even show 1080i because they were produced before the HDMI standard was released. Its a big what to do over on the HDTV forums. I dont' know how the DVD player upconverts DVD to 1080i but it sure looks good on my TV, way way better than on my friends regular TV. No lines and the picture is as smooth as butter.

No way I'm sending back my HDTV for EDTV, that's laughable. Infact, I'd wouldn't buy any TV that isn't 1080P right now unless I had to. I keep my TV's a long time and want it to be ready for the future. EDTV is only 480p right?

BTW, my 42" LCD 1080P TV cost $1800. I'm sure it'll get cheaper.

ED TV 640X480=307,200

HD TV 1280X720=921,600

HD TV 1980X1080=2,138,400

I think that just about anyone will see the difference between the formats.

[Jeebus]

You are wrong, my 1080P TV won't show 1080 material unless its HDMI. HDMI has a security feature that lets it know that you're not hooking up your 1080 source to your computer and copying it. In fact, there are some 1080i HDTVs that can't even show 1080i because they were produced before the HDMI standard was released. Its a big what to do over on the HDTV forums.

The HDMI connection on your TV is not the connection that will determine whether a broadcast will play. Its the connection coming out of your cable box. What determines whether your TV can produce 1080i is its HDTV tuner/decoder (ATSC format). The problem with the older HDTV's is that they can only decode 720p, the original HD ATSC format. Still, these TV's have to be over 5 years old for that to be happening.

If you have the same TWC Scientific Atlanta HD-DVR box that I do, then NO, you do not need HDMI to view 1080i broadcasts. I have recorded quite a few HD shows via S-video & RCA cables to my computer. No HDMI cable required. If infact you hook your cable box to your tv with anything else besides an HDMI cable and it doesn't work, then you might as well have bought a new car that will only run on Chevron brand gasoline.

You are somewhat correct about the the future of HDMI though. The electronics industry is trying to get it so that both pieces of hardware will have to be able to communicate over HDMI for the media will play.

There was a video card company two years ago that produced some HDMI bypass cards that you can use to get around the encryption. I don't know if they've been pulled from the shelves yet. I have a friend who purchased two. I'll email him and get the link.

I dont' know how the DVD player upconverts DVD to 1080i but it sure looks good on my TV, way way better than on my friends regular TV. No lines and the picture is as smooth as butter.

You can't compare a DVD viewed on a regular tv to that of any HDTV. The reason is that DVD's are encoded at 480p. SDTV's are 480i. EDTV's are 480p, which goes back to one of my original points about 42" EDTV's. All your 1080p HDTV is doing is smoothing out a few progressive scan lines that are sometimes noticable. Again, a high price to pay for such a minute feature. Oh, you'll eventually get to a movie or DVD that will letterbox on you. Your 1080p HDTV with all its bells & whistles can't influence what aspect ratio a filmmaker should use.

No way I'm sending back my HDTV for EDTV, that's laughable. Infact, I'd wouldn't buy any TV that isn't 1080P right now unless I had to. I keep my TV's a long time and want it to be ready for the future. EDTV is only 480p right?

Its only laughable if you have money to burn, in my opinion. Let me ask you this: Lets say a car manufacturer makes a sports car. They also make a special edition of the same sports car with a fancy badge and only 5% more horsepower than the stock model. Would you be willing to pay 20 to 30% extra for that badge & 5% extra performance? Well, that's "ED" vs "HD" in the UNDER 50 inches catagory. What's funny is how all my friend who spend $500.00 to $2000.00 grand more have used the same argument against me about how they paid extra to make sure they got a TV that wouldn't become outdated. Here's the shocking truth. I have the exact same HDTV tuner/decoder in my 480p that is in the 720p, and the 1080i versions of my tv. The only resolution I might not be able to decode (simply because I never bothered to look) is 1080p, which no channels will ever singularly broadcast on . There's too much money to be lost by a media company that only offers its media to those with the most expensive TV's. The only thing that is different about my TV is my horizontal line count. My EDTV will last just as long as all my friends HDTV's, as well as yours.

ED TV 640X480=307,200

HD TV 1280X720=921,600

HD TV 1980X1080=2,138,400

I think that just about anyone will see the difference between the formats.

These numbers show the native resolution (which you have incorrect for ED, its 704x480) for those formats. They're great numbers for analytically measuring the performance of a given TV, but they hold little value with HDTV's under 50 inches. Is it just me or is no one listening or actually googling this for themselves to find out?

BTW, my 42" LCD 1080P TV cost $1800. I'm sure it'll get cheaper.

You'll have to show me a link to where you found a brand name 42" LCD 1080p HDTV for $1800.00 from a legitimate online vendor. That's simply unbelievable. Literally - unbelievable. Hell, show me one for under $2500.00 and I'll be impressed. Edited July 6, 2006 by Jeebus

[texas911]

If you have the same TWC Scientific Atlanta HD-DVR box that I do, then NO, you do not need HDMI to view 1080i broadcasts. I have recorded quite a few HD shows via S-video & RCA cables to my computer. No HDMI cable required. If infact you hook your cable box to your tv with anything else besides an HDMI cable and it doesn't work, then you might as well have bought a new car that will only run on Chevron brand gasoline.

How would you know? You don't have a 1080P TV? Your TV can only view 480P. So basically, you don't know what you're talking about. You can't view anything over 480p. Is that not simple enough for you? HDMI is purely digital and that's why the movie industry wanted some type of "protection", S video and RCA are analog, they aren't as scared because it won't make an exact copy. HDMI has copy protection built in.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?sk...d=1138084694260

I had a 10% off coupon to go on top of the listed price. With free in home delivery and they hauled away my 11 year old 32" TV which weighed like 200lbs and was broken. I'll probably end up keeping this new TV another 10 years at least, I'm cheap like that.

[Jeebus]

How would you know? You don't have a 1080P TV? Your TV can only view 480P. So basically, you don't know what you're talking about. You can't view anything over 480p. Is that not simple enough for you? HDMI is purely digital and that's why the movie industry wanted some type of "protection", S video and RCA are analog, they aren't as scared because it won't make an exact copy. HDMI has copy protection built in.

Okay, I'm going to remain polite, but again you are incorrect. ALL EDTV's can view HD programming. I can watch 1080i on my EDTV, and I'll explain how. All the major networks broadcast in 1080i. If I could only watch 480p, then I wouldn't be able to see what I currently see on my TV - which is everything.

You are confused between a screen's resolution and broadcast specifications. They are two entirely different things. Allow me to clarify: My EDTV (480p) can decode 1080i broadcast signals and display them at 480 lines of progressively scanned resolution, by using the ATSC HD Format TV Tuner/Decoder that your "TV" does not even have. Keep reading to find out the bad news..

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?sk...d=1138084694260

Okay, this isn't even a TV. It's a monitor. Your "TV" is not a stand alone product. You can hook anything from DVD player to a PC computer to it, but has no ATSC HD TV tuner/decoder built in. You sir just spent two grand on a glorified computer monitor. Your monitor is worthless without a cablebox to plug into it. Try it. Turn it on and try to catch any channel without the assistance of a cablebox or satellite dish (only using a traditional antenna of course, which ALL TV's require to recieve terrestrial TV station broadcasts via radio waves). You'll get nothing, not even static.

I'm cheap like that.

Yes, apparently you are. You basically just bought a car with no motor. Edited July 7, 2006 by Jeebus

[texas911]

OMG you are either super dense or just can't face the facts!

Your ED TV can't produce HD pictures! Its impossible for it to show anything more than 480p. Real HD starts at 1080i, sure your TV can down covert 1080i to 480p but so what? Its still 480p which isn't HD!

Don't try and give out false information to people asking for advice.

And I was well aware of what I was buying, why would I need a built in tuner if I was going to use cable service for viewing content. You are always harping on telling people to save money by buying inferior technology (EDTV) but now you're saying that they should buy an HDTV with a tuner which most people won't even use!

Dude, you are so wrong on so many levels its not even funny!

Where is the rebuttle on the HDMI? Don't tell me your EDTV takes HDMI?

ED TV was made to dupe people like you into thinking they are getting HD quality TV when in fact you are not!

Here it is in simpler terms for you. 480 does not equal 1080, for that matter it doesn't even equal 720. Can you understand this simple equation?

BTW, its not a computer monitor. You can use it as one, but its an HDTV. If you get right down to it, all HDTVs are computer monitors since real HD signals are digital, not like your EDTV which takes only analog. The HDTV I bought takes HDMI, DVI, VGA, Component and S-Video.

You just can't admit you're wrong.

I think the term you're looking for is OWNED!

[ricco67]

Gentlemen, gentlemen!

My original question was the kind of rig I should set up for viewing.

Let's put away the technical issues with picture and resolution, I'm already made my mind on getting a 37-42 inch HDTV. The price isn't much of an issue because I want something that's going to last me at least 5-6 years.

My original question involved the overall setup I want as far as my TIVO and TIVO options.

[Jeebus]

OMG you are either super dense or just can't face the facts!

Yes, I am so dense, and can't face your "facts" that you have yet to provide any hard evidence for. Everything I've said can be proven by simple demonstrations, or a little light reading on the internet. I just can't beleive you replied without even doing a little homework first. You've said enough in this post that anyone can disprove your knowledge base just by going to the Best Buy website and reading the spec cards on the TVs.

Your ED TV can't produce HD pictures! Its impossible for it to show anything more than 480p. Real HD starts at 1080i, sure your TV can down covert 1080i to 480p but so what? Its still 480p which isn't HD!

I never said ED was HD. I said that ED can infact decode and display HD programming. You are still confused! There is a difference between screen resolution and broadcast specifications. Although they are measured by the same unit, they are entirely different. I'll even post it in bold print this time. Here's how it works:

ABC Broadcasting sents out LOST in 1080i

TWC Cable receives the signal and sents LOST out to the consumer at 1080i

EDTV's receive the 1080i signal and downconvert the image to 480p

720p HDTV's receive the 1080i signal and downconvert the image 720p

1080i & 1080p HDTV's receive the signal and play natively at 1080i or 1080p repsectively

Oh, and "real HDTV" is 720p - and not 1080i, per the ATSC, who is the authority on the matter.

Don't try and give out false information to people asking for advice.

Prove anything I've said wrong with factual, coherent information and I will admit it.

And I was well aware of what I was buying, why would I need a built in tuner if I was going to use cable service for viewing content. You are always harping on telling people to save money by buying inferior technology (EDTV) but now you're saying that they should buy an HDTV with a tuner which most people won't even use!

It makes no sense to buy a $2000.00 42" computer monitor. It makes perfect sense to buy a $2000.00 42" tv. You're the one that bought the monitor. You can blame only yourself.

Dude, you are so wrong on so many levels its not even funny!

Again, "dude", all I ask if for you to prove me wrong. Until then, I'm fairly confident the entire board is giggling at your 42" computer monitor.

Where is the rebuttle on the HDMI? Don't tell me your EDTV takes HDMI?

What rebuttal is needed? Yes my EDTV has an HDMI slot.

ED TV was made to dupe people like you into thinking they are getting HD quality TV when in fact you are not!

Right, I'm the one who got duped. You're the one who got one over on the eletronics industry by buying a TV with no TV tuner!

Here it is in simpler terms for you. 480 does not equal 1080, for that matter it doesn't even equal 720. Can you understand this simple equation?

When did anyone ever say that 480 lines equals any other amount of lines? All you have to do is quote me if I said it.

BTW, its not a computer monitor. You can use it as one, but its an HDTV. If you get right down to it, all HDTVs are computer monitors since real HD signals are digital, not like your EDTV which takes only analog. The HDTV I bought takes HDMI, DVI, VGA, Component and S-Video.

Wow. You really have no clue what you are talking about. You have officially bit off more than you can chew. You should have spent five minutes on any online electronic store website before you shot off your mouth like that. I've got you quoted as saying that EDTV is analog. You do realize that you are 100% wrong right?

Yes, my EDTV has all those connections as well. The factory must have mistakenly put them on my analong tv huh?

You just can't admit you're wrong.

I admit that I was wrong to think I could enlighten someone like you. Good luck with your "digital HD computer monitor". I hope for your sake the cable never goes out!

Oh, and all you've "owned" today is a $2000.00 42" computer monitor.

[Jeebus]

Ricco, if money is no object, then I would recomment whatever HD-DVR option Tivo or DirectTV has. I have cable right now, so I don't specifics. I know it was talked about in another forum here about 3-4 weeks ago though.

My reason for advising you to get the HD-DVR with your dish is so that 1: you can watch HD programming on your HDTV, 2: So you can record you favorite shows in their HD format, which will make for a more enjoyable experience when playing them back. I do this for LOST, Sopranos, Entourage & a few others.

Have you picked out a TV model yet?

[nmainguy]

Without getting into a pissing match, I'm sure someone here could give me good advice.

We want to upgrade to something under 50" that will display anything available in HD and be able to record and keep for future use anything broadcast over the airwaves, satellite or cable. We would also like to use it as a computer monitor. We hate TWC but are so techno-deprived that we're not sure what to do. We're not in a hurry-we'd like a 1st rate system set up by Xmas 2007. Is there new technology coming out before then? Should we wait? Nothing is carved in stone-I just offered up our wish list in hopes that someone could steer us in the right direction-what to buy; where to go to buy it; who to hire to install if we can't find the wall plug...

I've read all your comments and advice-sometimes 2 or 3 times over and some of you guys seem to have a grip on the fundamentals.

HELP?!?!?!?

Edited July 7, 2006 by nmainguy

[ricco67]

I have been looking at the Mitsubishi and Sony Wega HDTV's.

More than likely I'm going to be with cable, but the thing that irritates me is that I'm about to put up my TIVO up for bid on Ebay and was hoping to upgrade to another lifetime TIVO (if I can find one) that has a lifetime subscription and then upgrade the Hard drive on that one as well.

I'm looking to buy a place in the next few months, so I won't really know what my cable/dish options are, but the TV I currently have appears to be on it's last legs and if I'm going to buy a new TV, I might as well get one that will last me a few years and that's why I'm pondering all my options.

The HDTV's in my price range have dropped consideraby over the past few years and the price range I'm looking at is between $1800-2400 and that's with different brands!

But I did learn something new about the cables.

[Jeebus]

TWC cable sucks. I'll warn you now. The DVR is okay, but its buggy sometimes. In the last month since defending TWC on the the other thread, I've come to hate it. As soon as possible we're switching to the dish.

With the TWC HD-DVR, if you order any of the movie channels, the guide will sometimes lock the whole system up on you for about 10 minutes at a time, forcing a cable box reboot. The DVR is also stupid when it comes to delaying a scheduled recording due to a live event running long. And sometimes the damn thing will think its recording one of your scheduled shows based on the time slot, even though the show isn't there that night.

Without getting into a pissing match, I'm sure someone here could give me good advice.

We want to upgrade to something under 50" that will display anything available in HD and be able to record and keep for future use anything broadcast over the airwaves, satellite or cable. We would also like to use it as a computer monitor. We hate TWC but are so techno-deprived that we're not sure what to do. We're not in a hurry-we'd like a 1st rate system set up by Xmas 2007. Is there new technology coming out before then? Should we wait? Nothing is carved in stone-I just offered up our wish list in hopes that someone could steer us in the right direction-what to buy; where to go to buy it; who to hire to install if we can't find the wall plug...

I've read all your comments and advice-sometimes 2 or 3 times over and some of you guys seem to have a grip on the fundamentals.

HELP?!?!?!?

As much as we seem to bump heads, I'll offer any advice I can if your interested.

[nmainguy]

As soon as possible we're switching to the dish.

I hear all kinds of things about the dish-it won't receive in the rain; it blacks out if it's cloudy. What's the real deal and have they really fixed the plasma screen burn-in problem?

[texas911]

Jeebees has quoted me in his signature! Wow! I'm so honored.

Let me simplify this for you jeebees. Your EDTV can recieve HD signals, but it can't display them in their glorious high definition greatness, you're stuck with maringally better than standard TV picture quality, its like taking a 5megapixel photograph and down converting it to 1megapixel. Its funny how you keep saying your EDTV shows you HD content, technically yes but its in a substandard format. Hilarious!

And call my HDTV a computer monitor if you want, I'll just go on and enjoy viewing my HD signals in its native 1080 format which is in the order of 4X the resolution of your EDTV! Anyway, I don't know of to many 42" computer monitors. Here is the exact copy of the Best Buy description of the TV I bought. Why don't you skim it and find out how wrong you are about everything you've posted. Take note about the copy protected HD content via HDMI.

Embrace the stunning and vivid clarity of high-definition programming and gaming with this LCD monitor that doubles as a computer monitor and a high-definition TV (requires connection to HD cable box, satellite or multimedia PC).

Learn more about HDTV.

HD-Ready: Fully capable of high-definition display when connected to an optional HDTV source (over-the-air, satellite or digital-cable set-top box).

HDMI-HDCP input provides an uncompressed all-digital audio/video link for the highest-quality connection and supports copy-protected HD broadcast content

1080p display provides the highest quality progressive scan picture possible from a high-definition source

You must be jealous that I found a 1080p 42" HDTV that cost less than your EDTV. I think my Cell phone has a higher resolution than your EDTV.

You have DVR cable? Wow, you bought a TV with a built in tuner and you're not even using it! What a waste!

I will agree with you that Time Warner sucks though. Yes they do but what other choice is there.

For true HD quality, Satellite is just to compressed.

Your still owned.

[Jeebus]

You must be jealous that I found a 1080p 42" HDTV that cost less than your EDTV.

If you had a 42" 1080p HDTV for the same price as my 42" 480p EDTV, then yeah - I would be jealous. Am I jealous of your 42" HDTV READY computer monitor? No, because I have no need for a 42" computer monitor in my living room.

At least you've finally made clear that you understand what I've been talking about. Unfortunately you still have no practical application of the knowledge, but hey - its a start.

I bought a tv for a reason (as opposed to buying a monitor). Any given day I might decide to ditch cable. If I do, I'll still be able to watch tv, on my - yes, you guessed it: tv!

You've yet to do anything to "own" me though execpt butcher the facts about HDTV. Seriously, how could you make such an obtuse statement as "EDTV's are analong"? I think that just proves how much you really know on the subject. It takes more than reading the spec sheet for an HD ready monitor on Bestbuy.com to know enough about the subject to speak publicly on it.

Your still owned.

I still own what? Oh, you meant "you're". I guess now you're owned. Edited July 7, 2006 by Jeebus

[nmainguy]

Again, I hear all kinds of things about the dish-it won't receive in the rain; it blacks out if it's cloudy. What's the real deal and have they really fixed the plasma screen burn-in problem?

[Jeebus]

I've had issues with burn in on my plasma. It must be because its an EDTV. No, seriously, they all have that problem. For me, it has mainly been from watching regular 4:3 TV channels. When doing so, the cablebox throws up black matte borders on either side. What happens is that if you watch enough 4:3 and then go to 16:9 (HD channel), you can see the outline of where the 4:3 channel's edges were, and the matte area is darker than the rest of the screen.

My analog EDTV[sic] came with built in protection and repair tools for burn-in. About once a week I run the repair tool (whether its needed or not) for about 30 minutes. I usually do this on a Sunday and just put the cable to one of the digital music channels. I've had my TV for about 6 months now & watch it about 4 hours a day (which comes out to about one thousand hours so far), and I have no sign of burn-in damage.

[nmainguy]

I've had issues with burn in on my plasma. It must be because its an EDTV. No, seriously, they all have that problem. For me, it has mainly been from watching regular 4:3 TV channels. When doing so, the cablebox throws up black matte borders on either side. What happens is that if you watch enough 4:3 and then go to 16:9 (HD channel), you can see the outline of where the 4:3 channel's edges were, and the matte area is darker than the rest of the screen.

My analog EDTV[sic] came with built in protection and repair tools for burn-in. About once a week I run the repair tool (whether its needed or not) for about 30 minutes. I usually do this on a Sunday and just put the cable to one of the digital music channels. I've had my TV for about 6 months now & watch it about 4 hours a day (which comes out to about one thousand hours so far), and I have no sign of burn-in damage.

Thanks. So what about dish vs. cable?