Renault/Nissan Buying GM?!

[Subdude]

I almost fell out of my chair when I read this. Who would ever think that GM would end up as a partner of Renault/Nissan. I would be amazed if GM went for it.

By KEN THOMAS, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - A top shareholder in General Motors Corp. said Friday that automakers Renault SA and Nissan Motor Co. are interested in purchasing a significant stake in GM and including the Detroit automaker in their alliance.

Billionaire investor Kirk Kerkorian's company, Tracinda Corp., told GM Chairman and Chief executive Rick Wagoner in a letter that Renault and Nissan are receptive to the idea of including General Motors in their partnership and purchasing "a significant minority interest" in the automaker.

Tracinda, a large minority shareholder in GM, said the existing French-Japanese partnership has created "tremendous engineering, manufacturing and marketing synergies, resulting in substantial benefits and cost savings to both Renault and Nissan."

Shares of GM increased $1.48, or 5.39 percent, to $28.92 in midday trading on the New York Stock Exchange after the news.

Tracinda urged GM's board to form a committee to "immediately and fully explore this opportunity together with management," as it feels the alliance could help GM "realize substantial synergies and cost savings and thereby greatly benefit the company and enhance shareholder value."

GM, in a statement, said the Tracinda request "will be taken under advisement" by its board of directors. The automaker said it has not received any offers or proposals from Renault/Nissan about an alliance. GM said it would have no further comment.

[TJones]

Very Very Interesting.

[CE_ugh]

Well its better than bankruptcy

[Subdude]

True enough, but I'm not convinced that's where GM is going to end up. Maybe a 50% chance over the next few years. The story is that Kirkorian is throwing GM into Renault's arms to cash out his share at a profit, rather than wait around for GM to fix itself.

[Talbot]

I wonder if they will change any of their cars? That would be interesting.

Can you buy Renaults in the U.S.? If not that would be cool to see them start to sell here in the states.

[TheNiche]

I almost fell out of my chair when I read this. Who would ever think that GM would end up as a partner of Renault/Nissan. I would be amazed if GM went for it.

Seems kind of incestuous to me, considering how relatively few automakers there are that market cars in the U.S.

[editor]

It used to be possible to buy Renauts in the U.S. in the 70's. My aunt had one.

If it does happen, I hope the GM cars get influenced by Nissan, and not the other way around, like what happened with Daimler-Chrysler. Chryslers have always been crap. Now they're crap with BMW pinstripes.

Why so harsh on Chryslers? Because there shouldn't be a paved road in the United States that you can't take a particular brand of car on but that every other car can drive on. My father would rent cars quite often for business, and bring them home at night. Whever the rental company would supply him with a Chrysler he would have to to take the long way home because the Chrysler couldn't make it up the regular road to our house. Instead, he would have to take the dirt road the long way around the back of the mountain.

I was with him in a Chrysler once when it tried to go up the regular road, and about halfway up the thing got slower and slower and slower and then just stalled. This was a brand new car. New car smell and less than 100 miles on the odometer and everything. That's when he explained to me that it always happens with Chryslers on that road.

Until DaimerChrysler can figure out how to build a car that can go up that road that my crappy Volkswagen could take at 50mph, I'll stay away thank you.

[TJones]

Editor, they are actually Mercedes stripes.

I can assure you that Nissan will NOT take any styling cues from GM. GM may get some kind of cross-breed from Nissan, like they have done with Isuzu in the past, or Nissan might get a nice V8 powerplant to put in a Z car or a Skyline. That thought makes me all giddy ! Nissan has also been figuring out how they are gonna get a deisel to put in their TITAN for '08, so maybe a Duramax.

[Subdude]

It used to be possible to buy Renauts in the U.S. in the 70's. My aunt had one.

If it does happen, I hope the GM cars get influenced by Nissan

It is my understanding that the Renaults were garbage and they were driven from the US market. Both under their own name and then after they had acquired AMC.

To me, some of the Renault/Nissan cars are real dogs style-wise. Like the Renault Modus, which reminded me of a frog that had mutated in some scientific radiation experiment gone awry.

Nissan has some ugly ones too, with the Armada looking like it was beat especially hard with the ugly stick.

I still don't think GM would agree to this. They haven't done well with their partnerships and have been busy gettting out of them. Without a full-blown merger it would be hard to realize economies of scale large enough to turn GM around, and it is hard to imagine GM giving up management control.

[TJones]

Nissan has some ugly ones too, with the Armada looking like it was beat especially hard with the ugly stick.

That picture of yours is a Japanese and Euromodel only car, that will actually be hitting Dealerships here next week, and it is called a Versa.

Plain......Wouldn't be caught dead in.

This one, you couldn't get me out of. 2 door model slated to hit at the end of this year or early next.

This is an Armada !

.....and this is the guy that "saved" Nissan. Carlos Ghosn.

Edited July 1, 2006 by TJones

[Subdude]

That picture of yours is a Japanese and Euromodel only car, that will actually be hitting Dealerships here next week, and it is called a Versa.

Not to quibble, but the Versa is based on a Renault Megane. The Versa doesn't seem quite as ugly as the Modus - few things do - but it's still not exactly the style king.

Getting Ghosn to work his magic at GM is part of the rationale for the deal. Although he "saved" Nissan, Renault is having a hard time.

[TJones]

Not to quibble, but the Versa is based on a Renault Megane. The Versa doesn't seem quite as ugly as the Modus - few things do - but it's still not exactly the style king.

Getting Ghosn to work his magic at GM is part of the rationale for the deal. Although he "saved" Nissan, Renault is having a hard time.

....and your RUDE comment about that beautiful Armada ?

Oh, I forgot to tell you that Nissan is gonna market that Versa as a mini Murano, Ugh ! NO COMPARISON !

Edited July 1, 2006 by TJones

[dalparadise]

This seems like a merger made in heaven. Not one of these brands is doing well. Together this turd triad would probably just quietly go away.

[TJones]

That was a good one dal. Too bad it is a false statement. Nissan is in the "Black" my man. Chevy's sales are higher than last years. Here is some light reading for you.

http://www.gm.com/company/investor_information/earnings/

They (GM) are making a remarkable comeback after the 2005 fiasco.

I went and found this article for you also dal.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=1258201

Edited July 1, 2006 by TJones

[dalparadise]

That was a good one dal. Too bad it is a false statement. Nissan is in the "Black" my man. Chevy's sales are higher than last years. Here is some light reading for you.

http://www.gm.com/company/investor_information/earnings/

They (GM) are making a remarkable comeback after the 2005 fiasco.

I went and found this article for you also dal.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=1258201

Okay, GM closes plants coast-to-coast and lays off tens of thousands of workers, and shows a uptick after the worst performance in company history? Yeah, things are great over there.

Nissan shows a profit (dateline nearly a year ago, by the way) after years of decline and that makes everything okay? Nah...they're still fighting for traction, just like most manufacturers. The ridiculous interest rate giveaways and discounts over the past 12 months were not made out of the goodness of their hearts. The auto industry is in bad shape. I will agree with you that Nissan is making some strides in the right direction, but there is a lot left to do. And associations with trainwrecks like Renault (and GM) aren't helping.

[editor]

I just saw that the VW Rabbit is coming back. This was my first car. Bought it used after it sat in a vacant lot for three years with the windows down. It was full of snow, leaves, and squirrels. 81k on the odometer. Paid $500 for it. I pushed out as much of the leaves and snow as I could, and the squirrels bolted immediately because the thing started right up. I couldn't believe it. Drove it down to the local garage. Three days and another $500 later, it had some new parts and passed inspection.

Drove that thing from Florida to Nova Scotia to Iowa, and most places inbetween. It had 200k on the odometer when it died two years later. The mechanic said the engine was just worn out, and the only thing to do was replace the whole thing.

Damned thing had no air conditioning and a black interior. One day it got so hot inside that the glue melted off one of the butterfly windows and it fell into the car while it was parked. It only had an AM radio, but that's OK because I was still in my talk radio phase. But the radio would stay on even when the car was off. Fortunately, it didn't seem to do any harm when I forgot and left the radio on all night. I also had the first car alarm in the neighborhood -- my sister's pit bull "Rufus" on a chain. At the grocery store parking lot I'd tie him to the bumper and he'd stand on the roof of the car and bark at people who got too close.

Ah, youth.

[Subdude]

I thought it was really strange that VW is resurrecting the Rabbit nameplate for the Golf. It was my impression that the original was a bit of a dog quality-wise. VW just stumbles from mistake to mistake, at least in the US where it has lost a big chunk of market share. The Phaeton has already been yanked.

[editor]

I looked at the Phaeton. It was way overpriced for what you got, but had a few nice luxury features. But that was the problem -- just a few. It was missing a lot, and again, was overpriced.

I'm not sure if the original Rabbit was of bad quality. The one I got seemed very good, but it was also a very very basic car at a time when people were starting to demand more. My father had a VW station wagon when I was a kid that he drove through the woods for years collecting firewood. It went places I wouldn't take a 4x4. I believe it was based on the Beetle.

I think it can be said without reservation that the VW Bus was very high quality, simply based on the number of them still on the road after all these decades.

[TJones]

Nissan shows a profit (dateline nearly a year ago, by the way) after years of decline and that makes everything okay? Nah...they're still fighting for traction, just like most manufacturers. The ridiculous interest rate giveaways and discounts over the past 12 months were not made out of the goodness of their hearts. The auto industry is in bad shape. I will agree with you that Nissan is making some strides in the right direction, but there is a lot left to do. And associations with trainwrecks like Renault (and GM) aren't helping.

........and the trend continues with Nissan, btw, they have been showing a profit for the past 6 to 7 years. Before that happened, it was Renault who got them out of the crapper, not the other way around, it was Renault taking the risk of going into business with Nissan, NOT the other way around.

[dalparadise]

........and the trend continues with Nissan, btw, they have been showing a profit for the past 6 to 7 years. Before that happened, it was Renault who got them out of the crapper, not the other way around, it was Renault taking the risk of going into business with Nissan, NOT the other way around.

Interesting. You gotta feel for a brand that looks to Renault for help.

[Subdude]

Interesting. You gotta feel for a brand that looks to Renault for help.

The GM Board has approved discussions with Renault/Nissan. I guess they can't just refuse, but it is still hard to see how this will ever work.

[TJones]

The GM Board has approved discussions with Renault/Nissan. I guess they can't just refuse, but it is still hard to see how this will ever work.

Sub, this is the real deal on the whole GM front. The ring leaders at GM are trying to unload their stock before they go into junkbond status. What do you do ? You create a buzz about a company, that is doing very well, buying a piece to help restructure your Company. Stocks rise a bit, and the Big Wigs, start selling and trading their shares while they still can. There has not been any real gossip going on with the Nissan side of things though. Either there is nothing serious going on here, or Nissan wants to wait until something is concrete to talk about.

Edited July 8, 2006 by TJones

[Subdude]

Well, technically GM is already in junk status.

This deal gets down to Kirkorian trying to unload his share at a profit by bringing in Ghosn. He doesn't believe current management is capable of a turnaround, although I doubt he cares one way or another if GM survives in the long run. He just wants to get out without getting taking a huge hit. Nothing wrong with that, I suppose. It will be months before a partnership deal can be hammered out, and even then it may not be approved.

[jmancuso]

doesn't renault control most of nissan stock? or is it the other way around?

i remember renaults here in the US in the 80's and wow, were those things POSes. as for GM, other than their trucks, they have been cranking out unreliable shitboxes for years so its no wonder why they are in the shape they are in now.

[TJones]

doesn't renault control most of nissan stock? or is it the other way around?

i remember renaults here in the US in the 80's and wow, were those things POSes. as for GM, other than their trucks, they have been cranking out unreliable shitboxes for years so its no wonder why they are in the shape they are in now.

Renault owns Nissan, much like Mercedes owns Chrysler. Not to worry though, you aren't getting Renault engineering in the cars, just Renault styling from Ghosn and hishandpicked team. Ghosn has a bit of a Midas touch, seems everything he touches does very well.

[Captain Impossible]

Actually I've been thinking about getting a Versa in the next couple of years. That's if I can't manage that Altima hybrid, if it turns out well.