Texas Central Project

[gmac]

Best practices around the world don't mean shiznit here. That's just the way it is. Cars are here to stay.

[Slick Vik]

Best practices around the world don't mean shiznit here. That's just the way it is. Cars are here to stay.

Sounds like LA 30 years ago.

[Ross]

Sounds like LA 30 years ago.

LA is full of cars. And always will be.

[IronTiger]

Looks like Citylab would have prefered a downtown station

 

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/11/amid-great-progress-texas-high-speed-rail-takes-a-big-step-back/416733/

Yeah, but "conventional wisdom" also holds that downtown is the center nucleus that radiates out to smaller parts of town. The reality is however that Houston just isn't built that way.

[Slick Vik]

LA is full of cars. And always will be.

1. It wasn't always like that. In fact it had 1500 miles of streetcars at one point. Insert your point here about how your dad took them.

2. LA also thought it never needed rail, and now is aggressively building it at a pace faster than any city in north america

3. Why do the car lovers always take rail as a threat on their way of life? It reminds me of when the hint of gun control is mentioned to gun owners.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Slick Vik

[IronTiger]

Don't answer him, you know the answers he gives.

[Ross]

Don't answer him, you know the answers he gives.

 

You're no fun. 

 

[gmac]

Vik, how many days in your life have you commuted to work, or anywhere, by rail?

[august948]

1. It wasn't always like that. In fact it had 1500 miles of streetcars at one point. Insert your point here about how your dad took them.

2. LA also thought it never needed rail, and now is aggressively building it at a pace faster than any city in north america

3. Why do the car lovers always take rail as a threat on their way of life? It reminds me of when the hint of gun control is mentioned to gun owners.

 

1.  Streetcars had their time and place.  That time and place has been more or less over with for about 80 years.  "Insert your point here about how your dad took them"?  Are you copying some else's talking points?

 

2.  If the good people of LA feel the need to build rail and want to spend the money on it, more power to them.  What's your point here?

 

3.  I think the more relevant question is why some rail lovers take cars as a threat to their way of life.  There's room for both.  Just like it's your option to carry or not carry.  Except that the right to carry is enshrined in the Constitution and the right to a train is not.  Not sure why you're bringing up gun laws here.

 

[Slick Vik]

Vik, how many days in your life have you commuted to work, or anywhere, by rail?

I take it five days a week. And I've taken it in San Francisco, New York, boston, Mexico City, London, buenos Aires, Rome, Tokyo, Vancouver, Chicago, Miami, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Washington, D.C., and Dallas.

[IronTiger]

For those wanting a downtown station, is there any real reason other than a variant of these four arguments?

1) Dallas is getting theirs downtown. I feel jealous, and demand we should get parity. They mock us openly, and we deserve better.

2) I have this fantasy of a huge downtown-centric multi-modal transit center that requires it being downtown to work. I expect, or at least hope, that everyone takes public transit, and putting it at the NW Mall site would be conducive to none of that.

3) Despite all signs to the contrary, I really want downtown to be the center of Houston, where the center of town is.

4) Northwest Mall's area is a dump and will never improve or gentrify over time, or with the addition of a new HSR train station. There will also never be any transit over in that direction either.

[Slick Vik]

For those wanting a downtown station, is there any real reason other than a variant of these four arguments?

1) Dallas is getting theirs downtown. I feel jealous, and demand we should get parity. They mock us openly, and we deserve better.

2) I have this fantasy of a huge downtown-centric multi-modal transit center that requires it being downtown to work. I expect, or at least hope, that everyone takes public transit, and putting it at the NW Mall site would be conducive to none of that.

3) Despite all signs to the contrary, I really want downtown to be the center of Houston, where the center of town is.

4) Northwest Mall's area is a dump and will never improve or gentrify over time, or with the addition of a new HSR train station. There will also never be any transit over in that direction either.

Not putting it downtown is short sighted. If you can't see that you're blind and/or biased.

[august948]

Not putting it downtown is short sighted. If you can't see that you're blind and/or biased.

 

Since it's a private project, I'm sure you can offer to invest $12 billion in TCR for them to take it downtown.  Might get you a seat on the board of directors.  Let us know how that works out.

 

[Montrose1100]

For those wanting a downtown station, is there any real reason other than a variant of these four arguments?

1) Dallas is getting theirs downtown. I feel jealous, and demand we should get parity. They mock us openly, and we deserve better.

2) I have this fantasy of a huge downtown-centric multi-modal transit center that requires it being downtown to work. I expect, or at least hope, that everyone takes public transit, and putting it at the NW Mall site would be conducive to none of that.

3) Despite all signs to the contrary, I really want downtown to be the center of Houston, where the center of town is.

4) Northwest Mall's area is a dump and will never improve or gentrify over time, or with the addition of a new HSR train station. There will also never be any transit over in that direction either.

ALL OF THE ABOVE. 

 

it's nice to live in a fantasy world where important business people from Dallas and Houston will take this bullet train to and from each other, walking only blocks or one light rail station to their respective offices. Also, for sports fans to hop on the bullet train, hop on the light rail, and go down to NRG Park. Or families visiting whatever exhibit at either cities' museums (go ahead and throw in the hotels along the light rail lines). Or family members visiting for the weekend to hop on the rail lines to their houses. 

 

In reality this will be very few of the people who might consider this. If we were super dense, urban, walkable (and the same for Dallas), this would be a very real fantasy. People can easily pick up their family members from NW Mall by car. People will Uber, Taxi, have rides already at either location. Because not everyone using this HSR will be ending their final location along the red or other light rail lines. 

 

I've come to terms with the NW Mall site. It's not that far away, and would have easy access to Memorial to avoid I-10 if needing to get Downtown. Or Washington for that matter. Yes I want a fabulous/expensive inter-model station Downtown with all transportation modes available but that won't happen for a while. We still have some time to go. Besides, think of the historical median they would have to deface! 

[Sunstar]

For completely selfish reasons I'm glad to see it at the Northwest Mall site as I live just on the other side of the freeway and it would be within walking distance. Of course I almost never travel to Dallas, but I have this notion that it will raise property values in the immediate area. If I lived anywhere else in the city I'd be outraged. 

[JJxvi]

I really doubt that TCR is going to build some crown jewel station at NW Mall anyway.  If it is a success, then maybe they will extend the line downtown anyway at some point.  I suspect though that NW Mall will actually be viewed as being a pretty good location in the long run.

[Slick Vik]

1. Streetcars had their time and place. That time and place has been more or less over with for about 80 years. "Insert your point here about how your dad took them"? Are you copying some else's talking points?

2. If the good people of LA feel the need to build rail and want to spend the money on it, more power to them. What's your point here?

3. I think the more relevant question is why some rail lovers take cars as a threat to their way of life. There's room for both. Just like it's your option to carry or not carry. Except that the right to carry is enshrined in the Constitution and the right to a train is not. Not sure why you're bringing up gun laws here.

My point is LA is the ultimate car oriented city but even it realized that a strictly car oriented society is not the answer. Houston will find out soon enough, the hard way.

[ADCS]

I really doubt that TCR is going to build some crown jewel station at NW Mall anyway.  If it is a success, then maybe they will extend the line downtown anyway at some point.  I suspect though that NW Mall will actually be viewed as being a pretty good location in the long run.

 

It will likely be nicer than you think. The model is for most of the money to be made off of retail to begin with. It wouldn't surprise me to see something like a CityCentre be developed beside the train station.

[gmac]

I take it five days a week. And I've taken it in San Francisco, New York, boston, Mexico City, London, buenos Aires, Rome, Tokyo, Vancouver, Chicago, Miami, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Washington, D.C., and Dallas.

 

OK, and in your apparently extensive commuting experience (Las Vegas doesn't have commuter rail, btw), when you looked out the window did you see a bunch of cars, perhaps?

 

As an aside, I am incredibly impressed that you have lived and worked and commuted in 10+ major cities around the world. Kudos on your lengthy international career!

[BigFootsSocks]

OK, and in your apparently extensive commuting experience (Las Vegas doesn't have commuter rail, btw), when you looked out the window did you see a bunch of cars, perhaps?

As an aside, I am incredibly impressed that you have lived and worked and commuted in 10+ major cities around the world. Kudos on your lengthy international career!

Que Simpsons Monorail joke.

[Slick Vik]

OK, and in your apparently extensive commuting experience (Las Vegas doesn't have commuter rail, btw), when you looked out the window did you see a bunch of cars, perhaps?

As an aside, I am incredibly impressed that you have lived and worked and commuted in 10+ major cities around the world. Kudos on your lengthy international career!

No those are all the cities I've taken rail in. Commuting you can limit to Houston, Dallas, San Francisco, Vancouver, and New York. And yes Las Vegas is a monorail.

[IronTiger]

I think I figured out why it doesn't go downtown. If we assume urban areas are more expensive to go through (more sound walls, more crossings, etc.) it mostly has to do with sprawl and where the rail is coming in.

The "urbanized" area from Dallas downtown area to less developed areas (around the I-20 border) is about 9 miles. From the first "urbanized" area (development on both sides of the track), for Houston, that's Barker-Cypress Road. Onto Northwest Mall is 23 miles, then add on another six if you wanted to take it downtown. Houston's not the only one with sprawl, if Houston was north of Dallas, then there would be 30 miles of sprawl from downtown to McKinney (as the crow flies), then it would be less than 19 miles from Highway 6 (near Alvin) to downtown (following the tracks), or if the tracks came in from the northeast, about 9 miles out of downtown before hitting "the city".

[ADCS]

I think I figured out why it doesn't go downtown. If we assume urban areas are more expensive to go through (more sound walls, more crossings, etc.) it mostly has to do with sprawl and where the rail is coming in.

The "urbanized" area from Dallas downtown area to less developed areas (around the I-20 border) is about 9 miles. From the first "urbanized" area (development on both sides of the track), for Houston, that's Barker-Cypress Road. Onto Northwest Mall is 23 miles, then add on another six if you wanted to take it downtown. Houston's not the only one with sprawl, if Houston was north of Dallas, then there would be 30 miles of sprawl from downtown to McKinney (as the crow flies), then it would be less than 19 miles from Highway 6 (near Alvin) to downtown (following the tracks), or if the tracks came in from the northeast, about 9 miles out of downtown before hitting "the city".

 

Also, the folks in south and east Dallas aren't rich white folks with political connections and the means to litigate.

[Sparrow]

I realize it wasn't addressed in the last mile report, but certainly the TxDOT intended rebuild of I-45 might have something to do with not going all the way to Downtown just yet. How could TxDOT possibly allow use of their right-of-way over/under/thru I-45/I-10 before a massive $6B+ rebuild?  

[Howard Huge]

There are too many damn "powers that be" in Houston.

It's getting old.

[ADCS]

There are too many damn "powers that be" in Houston.

It's getting old.

 

Eh, there are really only four - land developers, auto dealers, engineering departments and wealthy middle age to elderly residents with strong opinions and without jobs 

[cloud713]

I think I figured out why it doesn't go downtown. If we assume urban areas are more expensive to go through (more sound walls, more crossings, etc.) it mostly has to do with sprawl and where the rail is coming in.

The "urbanized" area from Dallas downtown area to less developed areas (around the I-20 border) is about 9 miles. From the first "urbanized" area (development on both sides of the track), for Houston, that's Barker-Cypress Road. Onto Northwest Mall is 23 miles, then add on another six if you wanted to take it downtown. Houston's not the only one with sprawl, if Houston was north of Dallas, then there would be 30 miles of sprawl from downtown to McKinney (as the crow flies), then it would be less than 19 miles from Highway 6 (near Alvin) to downtown (following the tracks), or if the tracks came in from the northeast, about 9 miles out of downtown before hitting "the city".

No offense, but surely you didn't just come to that conclusion.. I thought that was pretty obvious? Or at least to anyone who knows the development trends and demographics of each city.

[BigFootsSocks]

The more people that understand that, the better though. There's way too much confusion over this site that hasn't been officially announced by TCR (by FRA, yes).

Would be great for TCR to clarify this soon.

[Urbannizer]

http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/2015/11/japanese-company-investing-40m-in-dallas-houston-bullet-train.html/

 

 

Japanese company investing $40M in Dallas-Houston bullet train

 

As Vice President Joe Biden hinted last week, a Japanese investment firm plans to invest tens of millions of dollars in the planned high-speed train line between Dallas and Houston. Japan Overseas Infrastructure Investment Corporation for Transport and Urban Development, whose headquarters is in Tokyo, announced on Saturday its decision to invest $40 million in the project.

 

Texas development company Texas Central Partners plans to use the same high-speed railway technology used for decades on the Shinkansen system that links Tokyo and Osaka.

 

 

[astros148]

and they cant go downtown. yeah right