Which Texas City Cares Most About Its History?

[H-Town Man]

I just conducted a completely non-scientific and error-prone (but nonetheless interesting) experiment to find out which Texas city cares the most about its history. Noticing that each of the largest Texas cities has a "Then and Now" history book, and that these books have wide visibility as inexpensive buys for lovers of local history, I went to Amazon.com to see how they each rank in sales. Below are the results, with publication date in parentheses.

Houston Then and Now (9/26/2003) #348,505

Dallas Then and Now (8/1/2001) #127,075

San Antonio Then and Now (7/10/2005) #98,962

Austin Then and Now (11/29/2006) #79,434

It would seem from this that residents of Austin and San Antonio take the most interest in their city's history, especially when you consider the number of books bought per capita compared to their larger siblings. Of course, one factor in the lower sales for Houston and Dallas could be that the books have been out longer, and thus most of the people who would want them already bought them several years ago. Still, it is interesting to note that Dallas's book has been out two years longer than Houston's, and yet is still far ahead of it in sales.

Anyone care to attempt an explanation?

[musicman]

Still, it is interesting to note that Dallas's book has been out two years longer than Houston's, and yet is still far ahead of it in sales.

Anyone care to attempt an explanation?

the people that read in DFW actually live in FW so they wouldn't buy the book?

[TheNiche]

the people that read in DFW actually live in FW so they wouldn't buy the book?

Oh, for god's sake... Horse genitals.

[Jeebus]

Oh, for god's sake... Horse genitals.

I don't know. This theory actually sounds plausible...

[Vertigo58]

Austin and San Antonio

by far have done a more serious approach to historical preservation than we. Get to know older residents especially those tied in to historical organizations of those cities and they will enlighten you. I attended a recent Historical Society event in SA were many of the elderly were very early decedants of early Spanish Texas settlers/dinitaries. There are still a few dwindling societies that want younger people to join but hey I know I'm there. A peron interested just has to have the passion in them to want to become involved.

Houston became the place to run to for jobs esecially after WWII so it just couldnt keep up with the demand and over population is had beco me inundated with. To get back to your original question the ones that care about its history are some on this forum and rest are unaware of this forum or are dying off.

Edited January 7, 2008 by Vertigo58

[musicman]

Oh, for god's sake... Horse genitals.

deja vu. that's pretty much what i thought when i read the initial post. maybe without the horse genitals.

[H-Town Man]

deja vu. that's pretty much what i thought when i read the initial post. maybe without the horse genitals.

Is there any particular thing wrong with what I said?

Just having a little fun here....

[RedScare]

Am I reading your numbers wrong? Per capita readership for Houston would be 348,000/2100000, or 16.6%. Dallas is 127,000/1290000, or 9.8%. SA is 98,000/1400000, or 7%. Austin is 79,000/800,000, or 9.9%.

Under your unscientific theory, Houston would be most historically minded, by about 70% more than the others.

Of course, the more likely theory is that Houstonians buy the book because it is the only way to see what the city USED to look like, before we tore it down.

[H-Town Man]

Am I reading your numbers wrong? Per capita readership for Houston would be 348,000/2100000, or 16.6%. Dallas is 127,000/1290000, or 9.8%. SA is 98,000/1400000, or 7%. Austin is 79,000/800,000, or 9.9%.

Under your unscientific theory, Houston would be most historically minded, by about 70% more than the others.

Of course, the more likely theory is that Houstonians buy the book because it is the only way to see what the city USED to look like, before we tore it down.

These numbers refer to their ranking on Amazon.com, not sales. I have no idea what actual sales numbers are.

[RedScare]

These numbers refer to their ranking on Amazon.com, not sales. I have no idea what actual sales numbers are.

[H-Town Man]

???

[RedScare]

Just laughing at my reading of 348,000 as actual book sales, versus the incredibly anemic ranking of book sales.

[musicman]

Is there any particular thing wrong with what I said?

I just conducted a completely non-scientific and error-prone experiment

the lack of technical content perhaps?

Edited January 7, 2008 by musicman

[H-Town Man]

I just conducted a completely non-scientific and error-prone experiment

the lack of technical content perhaps?

Not sure what you mean by that... I posted numbers, and admitted that it was non-scientific and error-prone. This was really more of just a light interest post than anything else.

But in keeping with that theme, if you're not interested in what I have to say, there are several hundred other threads on here for you to make sour remarks on.

[musicman]

But in keeping with that theme, if you're not interested in what I have to say, there are several hundred other threads on here for you to make sour remarks on.

no sour remarks were made but your line These numbers refer to their ranking on Amazon.com, not sales. I have no idea what actual sales numbers are. is sure caused me to laugh. I guess you're not having a little fun anymore?

[TheNiche]

no sour remarks were made but your line These numbers refer to their ranking on Amazon.com, not sales. I have no idea what actual sales numbers are. is sure caused me to laugh. I guess you're not having a little fun anymore?

I'd think that the rank is based on sales...at least on Amazon.com. The problem with using an online retailer's numbers is that there are pretty stark differences between online book buyers and those that buy from bricks-and-mortar book stores. For that matter, people who buy books in the first place (other than, perhaps, the Bible) also tend to break down pretty easily by demographic factors. And that if you charted rank on an x axis and sales volume on the y axis, the curve would look something like y = x^-1 = ¹/_x where the lower the rank, the less the incremental difference there is between sales volumes so that the difference between DFW's and the Houston area's population probably account for some of the difference in rank. Add to that the different release dates, as you'd already cited, that San Antonio's history just has a broader appeal in a wider context, that UT alums are going to go ga-ga over Austin stuff, just as A&M alums would if there were something targeted towards them, and these rankings actually start looking intuitively reasonable.

Edited January 7, 2008 by TheNiche

[musicman]

y=x^-1

for everyone's edification y=1/x Edited January 7, 2008 by musicman

[TheNiche]

for everyone's edification y=1/x

I wish Editor would invest in a HAIF add-on that would allow for more elaborate formulas. I'm just too used to entering these things on a slick graphing calculator and seeing them pop up on the screen the way that I'd write them on paper.

Nerd power!

Edited January 7, 2008 by TheNiche

[musicman]

Nerd power!

niche i can see you with one of these. LOL the ultimate with a lifetime guarantee!

[H-Town Man]

no sour remarks were made but your line These numbers refer to their ranking on Amazon.com, not sales. I have no idea what actual sales numbers are. is sure caused me to laugh. I guess you're not having a little fun anymore?

Can anyone else explain to me what this means?

[H-Town Man]

I'd think that the rank is based on sales...at least on Amazon.com. The problem with using an online retailer's numbers is that there are pretty stark differences between online book buyers and those that buy from bricks-and-mortar book stores. For that matter, people who buy books in the first place (other than, perhaps, the Bible) also tend to break down pretty easily by demographic factors. And that if you charted rank on an x axis and sales volume on the y axis, the curve would look something like y = x^-1 = ¹/_x where the lower the rank, the less the incremental difference there is between sales volumes so that the difference between DFW's and the Houston area's population probably account for some of the difference in rank. Add to that the different release dates, as you'd already cited, that San Antonio's history just has a broader appeal in a wider context, that UT alums are going to go ga-ga over Austin stuff, just as A&M alums would if there were something targeted towards them, and these rankings actually start looking intuitively reasonable.

I don't think that the <10% difference in populations between the Houson and DFW areas should account for that great of a sales rank difference. Especially since most people in the Fort Worth area do not identify that closely with Dallas (they have a very independent pride in their city, and there is actually also a Fort Worth Then and Now book). I agree with the rationale for San Antonio to an extent, but not so much on UT alums... are there really that many more UT alums than UH + Rice alums? And why would somebody who attended college in a certain city be that much more likely to buy a book on the history of that city than somebody who just lives there?

My guess on why the Austin and San Antonio sales are so much higher is that those cities have developed more of a local charm and pride of place than have Houston and Dallas, which tend to be seen by their residents from a more practical standpoint as places to live and build an income.

[Vertigo58]

My guess on why the Austin and San Antonio sales are so much higher is that those cities have developed more of a local charm and pride of place than have Houston and Dallas, which tend to be seen by their residents from a more practical standpoint as places to live and build an income.

And the Oscar goes to!!!!!!!!!

[musicman]

Can anyone else explain to me what this means?

i was simply quoting you. if you can't explain it, no one else can most likely.

[H-Town Man]

i was simply quoting you. if you can't explain it, no one else can most likely.

What on earth was your point?

[TheNiche]

I don't think that the <10% difference in populations between the Houson and DFW areas should account for that great of a sales rank difference. Especially since most people in the Fort Worth area do not identify that closely with Dallas (they have a very independent pride in their city, and there is actually also a Fort Worth Then and Now book). I agree with the rationale for San Antonio to an extent, but not so much on UT alums... are there really that many more UT alums than UH + Rice alums? And why would somebody who attended college in a certain city be that much more likely to buy a book on the history of that city than somebody who just lives there?

My guess on why the Austin and San Antonio sales are so much higher is that those cities have developed more of a local charm and pride of place than have Houston and Dallas, which tend to be seen by their residents from a more practical standpoint as places to live and build an income.

If you understood my math, you'd understand that a 10% difference in sales could result in a 30% difference in rank. Arbitrary numbers, but it illustrates the trend. And that is only a suggested contributing cause.

Rice and especially UH alums tend to be both fewer in number and less engaged than UT alums. Civic pride, among them, is much more mellow or non-existant...many went to Austin to have fun.

I also kind of wonder what other books might already be out there that are competing with the Then & Now series in each city. Perhaps its just an issue of market share.

[H-Town Man]

If you understood my math, you'd understand that a 10% difference in sales could result in a 30% difference in rank. Arbitrary numbers, but it illustrates the trend. And that is only a suggested contributing cause.

Rice and especially UH alums tend to be both fewer in number and less engaged than UT alums. Civic pride, among them, is much more mellow or non-existant...many went to Austin to have fun.

I also kind of wonder what other books might already be out there that are competing with the Then & Now series in each city. Perhaps its just an issue of market share.

I did understand your math, and I agree that the lower rankings go, the less difference there probably is in proportional sales, but I don't think that's enough to account for Dallas's much higher ranking than Houston's.

Why would somebody who went to college in a city be more likely to buy a book about that city's history than somebody who actually lives there, and may have lived there their whole life? UT takes in about 8,000 new students a year, so maybe some of them will end up being interested in Austin history, but how would that outweigh the fact that in Austin you have not much more than a million actual residents, whereas in Houston you have over 5 million people who call the city home?

[musicman]

whereas in Houston you have over 5 million people who call the city home?

Houston City, Texas Statistics and Demographics (US Census 2000)

Houston Population: 1953631

[TheNiche]

I did understand your math, and I agree that the lower rankings go, the less difference there probably is in proportional sales, but I don't think that's enough to account for Dallas's much higher ranking than Houston's.

Why would somebody who went to college in a city be more likely to buy a book about that city's history than somebody who actually lives there, and may have lived there their whole life? UT takes in about 8,000 new students a year, so maybe some of them will end up being interested in Austin history, but how would that outweigh the fact that in Austin you have not much more than a million actual residents, whereas in Houston you have over 5 million people who call the city home?

Why would anybody open up a store in Uptown Park, the most exclusive retail center in Houston, and sell nothing but UT stuff? It's not like they're even targeting UT Health Science Center, UTMB, or other affiliated locals. The bulk of the business is rooted in UT-Austin alums. And they like Austin...a lot. A whole frickin' lot.

And given that this is really more of a picture book than hardcore history, with academic overtones and lengthy bibliography, like I tend to read, I'm sure that it'd sell quite nicely to this crowd either as an impulse buy or as gifts bought for them.

[H-Town Man]

Houston City, Texas Statistics and Demographics (US Census 2000)

Houston Population: 1953631

Musicman's back! In previous posts we have been referring to the metro areas... I think that is a more realistic way of estimating the proportion of people who would identify with Houston as opposed to Austin. City limit lines are pretty arbitrary.

[H-Town Man]

Why would anybody open up a store in Uptown Park, the most exclusive retail center in Houston, and sell nothing but UT stuff? It's not like they're even targeting UT Health Science Center, UTMB, or other affiliated locals. The bulk of the business is rooted in UT-Austin alums. And they like Austin...a lot. A whole frickin' lot.

And given that this is really more of a picture book than hardcore history, with academic overtones and lengthy bibliography, like I tend to read, I'm sure that it'd sell quite nicely to this crowd either as an impulse buy or as gifts bought for them.

Whereas the average person who likes Austin enough to actually live there wouldn't be as likely to buy this book?

Sorry, I just don't think that going to college in a city makes you more likely to buy a history book about that city than actually living there.