Office Building At 811 Main St.

[TheNiche]

Not only that, but apparently The Niche doesn't know how a spine works.

The spine is also more S-shaped than truly linear but hey, he's an econ fella so I will forgive him.

y=x³ is produces a linear function. The graphed curve has multiple inflection points, but that does not equate to non-linearity.

But hey, Kinkaid isn't an econ fella, so I will forgive him.

Can't you think of Main Street as a long slender thing in the center of a blob-like thing (downtown).

Of course I can, but then we need to change our wording and talk about "social blobs" rather than "social spines" to keep from confusing people.

That's is what Uptown is for, especially Uptown Park.

I classify yuppies at a lower income level than you do, it seems.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Just picture it 10 stories shorter than this classic:

Just kidding of course. I couldn't help it. When I read Hines 47, that's all I could think of! FYI - There are no good pictures of 57 sauce on web..

That's actually what inspired the name.

And as for the ten stories of parking... I'm curious as to how this would be handled asthetically, especially given the current environment that exists on that block, not to mention the new parking garage across the street that has sparked so much recent controversy.

[Pumapayam]

Hey can anybody update Wikipedia. Houston is in the middle of a huge building boom and all the website has to say is the last major structure built was the second Enron tower. I think all these projects being proposed deserves at the very least an honorable mention.

Anyone can update wikipedia, all you have to do is click "edit" and put whatever thoughts you want to mention about this on there.

[KinkaidAlum]

y=x³ is produces a linear function. The graphed curve has multiple inflection points, but that does not equate to non-linearity.

But hey, Kinkaid isn't an econ fella, so I will forgive him.

Of course I can, but then we need to change our wording and talk about "social blobs" rather than "social spines" to keep from confusing people.

I classify yuppies at a lower income level than you do, it seems.

Did you really go home and do some research on spines? LOL

First, you stated "Because spines are straight. They act as corridors."

Now, you give an equation and talk about graphed curves producing linear functions.

Do you ever admit you are just wrong?

Main Street can certainly act as the "social spine of the region." The most important function of a spine is to provide strength, support, and to facilitate movement and serve as a connector to the limbs.

Calling it the social spine doesn't mean that all things social must have a Main address. It simply means that Main Street will have a connection to these "limbs." Main Street will be the central connector to the Houston Pavilions, Theatre District, Allen's Landing, Discovery Green, Bayou Place, sporting venues, and more. MetroRail already provides strength and support and facilitates movement. Adding future connections (U Line, SE Line, Uptown connector, Intermodel Transit Center, North extension, commuter rail, etc...) will only make Main Street healthier.

[Deut28Thirteen]

The renderings that I have seen do not have any sort of ornamental top to the building on the Hines 47. It is 47 floors, thats it. And they have said it will have street level retail.

Just happy to hear it will have Retail.

[TheNiche]

Did you really go home and do some research on spines? LOL

No, I plugged the word "spine" into Wikipedia from work, knowing that I'd get a disambiguation page. I did. It supported my argument. I posted a link to it.

First, you stated "Because spines are straight. They act as corridors."

Now, you give an equation and talk about graphed curves producing linear functions.

Do you ever admit you are just wrong?

Yes. I was wrong not to use the word "linear" in place of the word "straight." My mind was grappling with the concept of Main Street (which is straight) as a spine (which is linear). My bad.

Main Street can certainly act as the "social spine of the region." The most important function of a spine is to provide strength, support, and to facilitate movement and serve as a connector to the limbs.

Calling it the social spine doesn't mean that all things social must have a Main address. It simply means that Main Street will have a connection to these "limbs." Main Street will be the central connector to the Houston Pavilions, Theatre District, Allen's Landing, Discovery Green, Bayou Place, sporting venues, and more. MetroRail already provides strength and support and facilitates movement. Adding future connections (U Line, SE Line, Uptown connector, Intermodel Transit Center, North extension, commuter rail, etc...) will only make Main Street healthier.

This is the region, as defined by the US Census Bureau. The red line is the Red Line LRT route, only part of which is even located along Main Street. These proportions are all out of whack. If this is a "spine", then our region needs the built equivalent of diet and exercise.

If, as you claim, the function of the spine is "to provide strength, support, and to facilitate movement and serve as a connector to the limbs," then it seems to me like Loop 610 and Beltway 8 probably do a better job. ...nah, they DEFINITELY do a better job. Moreover, once the future connections that you're talking about are built, it seems to me as though the Red Line loses primacy as a corridor. It becomes just another guided rapid transit route. Nothing special. One limb of many.

And my original point, by the way, was that a couple of towers with ground level retail in downtown Houston aren't going to turn Main Street into a "social spine of the region". They're drops in a bucket...nay, a swimming pool. I'm not saying that it won't improve downtown as a district, but I think that my point stands.

[Houston19514]

No, I plugged the word "spine" into Wikipedia from work, knowing that I'd get a disambiguation page. I did. It supported my argument. I posted a link to it.

Yes. I was wrong not to use the word "linear" in place of the word "straight." My mind was grappling with the concept of Main Street (which is straight) as a spine (which is linear). My bad.

This is the region, as defined by the US Census Bureau. The red line is the Red Line LRT route, only part of which is even located along Main Street. These proportions are all out of whack. If this is a "spine", then our region needs the built equivalent of diet and exercise.

If, as you claim, the function of the spine is "to provide strength, support, and to facilitate movement and serve as a connector to the limbs," then it seems to me like Loop 610 and Beltway 8 probably do a better job. ...nah, they DEFINITELY do a better job. Moreover, once the future connections that you're talking about are built, it seems to me as though the Red Line loses primacy as a corridor. It becomes just another guided rapid transit route. Nothing special. One limb of many.

And my original point, by the way, was that a couple of towers with ground level retail in downtown Houston aren't going to turn Main Street into a "social spine of the region". They're drops in a bucket...nay, a swimming pool. I'm not saying that it won't improve downtown as a district, but I think that my point stands.

OMG I am ROTFLMAO at the pedantry. Now Main Street cannot be a spine but the essentially circular Loop and Beltway can??? Too much hilarity. Niche, you are in over your head again. Back out before it's too late. ;-)

Edited July 18, 2007 by Houston19514

[TheNiche]

OMG I am ROTFLMAO at the pedantry. Now Main Street cannot be a spine but the essentially circular Loop and Beltway can??? Too much hilarity.

...by Kinkaid's definition, yes. And I agree. It is hilarious.

[Houston19514]

...by Kinkaid's definition, yes. And I agree. It is hilarious.

Ahhh, I see you have the straw man factory up and running again. Good work; I like it when you take things out of context and create straw men.

[Highway6]

I agree with Niche.

Yeah, he may be lightly anal with the semantics... but he's right in shooting down the idea that two new buildings with street level retail will have any sort of measurable impact when considering what the orignal poster deemed "regional social ______ (spine / blob / whatever)"

Love the map... ya should have put two insy bitty black dots on that insy bitty red line to further make your point.

[bkjones98]

Several posts ago, a few of you referred to the exterior of the building being or no being LEED? I looked it up on wiki, and found "Low Energy Electron Diffraction". Is that correct? Can someone give an lay explanation.

"The straw-man factory up and running," thats funny.

[lockmat]

Several posts ago, a few of you referred to the exterior of the building being or no being LEED? I looked it up on wiki, and found "Low Energy Electron Diffraction". Is that correct? Can someone give an lay explanation.

"The straw-man factory up and running," thats funny.

No, it's actually Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design.

http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CategoryID=19

I think that's what you were asking for.

[KinkaidAlum]

I don't think anyone is claiming that two office buildings on Main Street with retail spaces will become the social spine of Houston.

That said, redeveloping the gaping hole that is the Shamrock site as well as the last seedy block (West Bldg) will be HUGE. Right now, there are televens of posts on this board talking about how Main Street is sketchy between Main Street Square and Preston Station. People have stated they hate walking on these blocks, especially at night. Developing new projects that will have retail between the clusters will have a significant impact on the walk between them and could help lead to the continuity needed to make the entire area a pedestrian friendly environment> This area will stretch from the Theatre District/Bayou Place east to Preston Station/Market Square/Minute Maid Park and south to Macy's/Main Street Square/Houston Pavilions and then east again to Discovery Green/Toyota Center/GRB/Hilton/Shops at Houston Center/Four Seasons.

That shape would roughly look like the actual shape of a spine (forming a coiled S).

[Houston19514]

I don't think anyone is claiming that two office buildings on Main Street with retail spaces will become the social spine of Houston.

That said, redeveloping the gaping hole that is the Shamrock site as well as the last seedy block (West Bldg) will be HUGE. Right now, there are televens of posts on this board talking about how Main Street is sketchy between Main Street Square and Preston Station. People have stated they hate walking on these blocks, especially at night. Developing new projects that will have retail between the clusters will have a significant impact on the walk between them and could help lead to the continuity needed to make the entire area a pedestrian friendly environment> This area will stretch from the Theatre District/Bayou Place east to Preston Station/Market Square/Minute Maid Park and south to Macy's/Main Street Square/Houston Pavilions and then east again to Discovery Green/Toyota Center/GRB/Hilton/Shops at Houston Center/Four Seasons.

That shape would roughly look like the actual shape of a spine (forming a coiled S).

You are exactly right, Kinkaid.

[Highway6]

I don't think anyone is claiming that two office buildings on Main Street with retail spaces will become the social spine of Houston.

If the city is really on its toes and the two projects (Hines 47 and their other proposed tower) come to fruition, they could really promote Main Street as being the long lost social spine of the entire region, not just the city (I'm assuming the two new Hines towers would facilitate a variety of retail opportunities on the ground floor).

[houstonfella]

Hines47HBJ Full Link

This is the link to HBJ's article on Hines' new 47 story skyscraper. Hopefully this will inform to some degree, but no renderings still.

[marc]

Renderings!!! Yes. We need them. Once that happens, maybe someone can put together a compilation (like a Chicago or London 2010) of what DT will look like in a few years. (REAL projects only...not fantasy ones Dominex)

All three of the newest towers seem to be relatively the same height. Explanations?

m.

Edited July 19, 2007 by marc

[Pumapayam]

Hines47HBJ Full Link

This is the link to HBJ's article on Hines' new 47 story skyscraper. Hopefully this will inform to some degree, but no renderings still.

800 Main is the address, that is not that close to the Pavilions orthe Residential Tower project.

And it seems that it will replace a current building, rather than a surface lot.

[Houston19514]

800 Main is the address, that is not that close to the Pavilions orthe Residential Tower project.

And it seems that it will replace a current building, rather than a surface lot.

3-4 blocks to the Pavilions. 4-5 blocks to One Park Place.

[Jax]

Isn't main Main Street Square the closest station to the Pavilions? And this place is only one block from that right? So it seems like it should be pretty convenient for people walking between the station and the Pavillions.

[musicman]

Isn't main Main Street Square the closest station to the Pavilions? And this place is only one block from that right? So it seems like it should be pretty convenient for people walking between the station and the Pavillions.

northbound it is quicker to exit bell to access the pavillions. southbound main street square is closest

[HtownWxBoy]

northbound it is quicker to exit bell to access the pavillions. southbound main street square is closest

Yea b/c if you are going northbound and you don't exit until Main Street Square you are going to pass right by HP and then have to backtrack.

[editor]

Enough with the spine argument, children.

Back on topic:

It looks like not everyone is happy with Hines 47 going up. There's an article in Preservation Magazine lamenting the destruction of the existing buildings.

http://www.nationaltrust.org/magazine/arch...2007/071607.htm

[shasta]

Enough with the spine argument, children.

Back on topic:

It looks like not everyone is happy with Hines 47 going up. There's an article in Preservation Magazine lamenting the destruction of the existing buildings.

http://www.nationaltrust.org/magazine/arch...2007/071607.htm

Has Hines ever cared about Historical or Neighborhood Preservation?

Go back and look what was on the downtown sites where their buildings now stand.

[marc]

Enough with the spine argument, children.

Back on topic:

It looks like not everyone is happy with Hines 47 going up. There's an article in Preservation Magazine lamenting the destruction of the existing buildings.

http://www.nationaltrust.org/magazine/arch...2007/071607.htm

I always am in a quandary regarding building newer, most times taller, structures to replace outdated, nonfunctional ones.

I enjoy seeing progress and architectural wonders built. BUT, on the other hand, understand the need to preserve the styles of the past. I do not envy those who make the decisions on what to keep and what to plow under and build on top of.

m.

[ricco67]

I always am in a quandary regarding building newer, most times taller, structures to replace outdated, nonfunctional ones.

I enjoy seeing progress and architectural wonders built. BUT, on the other hand, understand the need to preserve the styles of the past. I do not envy those who make the decisions on what to keep and what to plow under and build on top of.

m.

I'm right there with you, I was kinda' hoping they'd spare the montague, but the fact that that entire block wasn't put up to it's full potential made it an easy buy. It's just a pity they couldn't put it further up or down on main. Personally, I think it would do a bit better over by Bell street or on Praire, but whatever.

[Guest danax]

"Hines has applied for a certificate of appropriateness to demolish the Beatty-West building, a city landmark since 2004"

A certificate of appropriateness from the architectural committee to demolish a city landmark? Ha, what a joke!.....only in Houston.

[TheNiche]

"Hines has applied for a certificate of appropriateness to demolish the Beatty-West building, a city landmark since 2004"

A certificate of appropriateness from the architectural committee to demolish a city landmark? Ha, what a joke!.....only in Houston.

Yeah, no kidding. This article is misleading.

1) It won't be a 900-foot skyscraper.

2) Hines doesn't own the Stowers Building, so it is not theirs to save. They aren't saving it.

3) Certificate of Appropriateness? City landmark?

[sevfiv]

Yeah, no kidding. This article is misleading.

1) It won't be a 900-foot skyscraper.

2) Hines doesn't own the Stowers Building, so it is not theirs to save. They aren't saving it.

3) Certificate of Appropriateness? City landmark?

-"900 sq. ft. building" was a typo (supposed to be 900,000)

-What are the chances that Hines could have made an offer to Spire that would have resulted in a change of hands of Stowers?

-Owners of landmarks must submit a COA to the city (the Houston Archaeological and Historic Commission) for any kind of exterior alteration. If it is denied, that is when the 90 day wait comes into play, i believe.

Edited July 23, 2007 by sevfiv

[TheNiche]

-What are the chances that Hines could have made an offer to Spire that would have resulted in a change of hands of Stowers?

The article says that Hines is saving it. Even if your speculation were realistic, then it would not be Hines saving it...it'd be Hines trying and failing to buy it and knock it down. Big difference.

Spire Realty saved it. They should give credit where credit is due.