Office Building At 811 Main St.

[MidtownCoog]

What about faux-stret level retail instead?

That what my building has. A Starbucks is in the lobby, which connects to the tunnel system.

[ricco67]

Most people don't like being that tied to their job. If they don't like what they do, being in the same building for so much of their waking life creates a feeling of entrapment.

Additionally, the interests of both residential and office tenants are to keep a secure premesis, but that becomes exceptionally difficult if the same elevator bank serves different populations that come and go at different hours. The best solution would likely entail giving each building use its own lobby with either a seperate entrance or an access-controlled interior passageway, but then you may as well have one office building next to a residential building, joined by a skywalk or tunnel. Same difference, more or less.

...now live-work units--that's a whole different story altogether. Those really can be sweet little deals, but the target market for those tends to be an entrepreneurial or telecommuting crowd, so I come back full circle to the bit about people needing to be happy with their work.

Also look at it this way, when I lived 5 minutes from home, it made life MUCH easier to run errands or go to the ball park while everyone else was struggling just to get home in the 'burbs.

I lived in the 'burbs. the burbs sucked.

[musicman]

Also look at it this way, when I lived 5 minutes from home, it made life MUCH easier

most of us live 0 mins from home.

[TheNiche]

Also look at it this way, when I lived 5 minutes from home, it made life MUCH easier to run errands or go to the ball park while everyone else was struggling just to get home in the 'burbs.

I lived in the 'burbs. the burbs sucked.

To be clear, I'm weighing the value of a residential/office mixed-use structure vs. residential next to office, rather than simply long commute vs. short commute.

To burb or not to burb is not at issue.

[ToolMan]

there are numerous empty business spaces currently along main. if there was that much demand those business spaces would be taken up and i would believe that the hrs of the ones that are there currently would be extended beyond typical business hrs.

You are forgeting there will be 47 floors occupied by tennants and they would benefit during lunch time. It has worked with other buildings; however, after 5:00pm is another topic.

[musicman]

....... however, after 5:00pm is another topic.

and i believe this is what many living in the area have the most issue with. on the weekends and evenings, if they need something they have to go somewhere else. until there is demand (which means more living downtown), primarily businesses with big pockets will be those to enter the market.

Edited July 14, 2007 by musicman

[Subdude]

Btw the architects for this are Pickard Chilton. They also designed the unbuilt AIM tower in Greenway Plaza, which would have been nice. There isn't a rendering on their site yet, but keep checking.

Pickard Chilton projects

[Jax]

and i believe this is what many living in the area have the most issue with. on the weekends and evenings, if they need something they have to go somewhere else. until there is demand (which means more living downtown), primarily businesses with big pockets will be those to enter the market.

Soon there will be the pavilions at least. Maybe if that is popular enough during non business hours, other businesses nearby will follow. That's why I think retail on this part of main street may make sense - because it's in walking distance of the pavilions. If the pavilions are as hot as we all hope they are, people will want to open businesses within walking distance to try to cash in on some of that crowd.

Opening retail a few blocks away on Main makes the most sense if there is a fairly continual retail presence between the pavilions and the main street location. People are less likely to walk two deserted blocks to get to one isolated store than the are to walk two busy blocks. So I think that is the real issue.

[musicman]

i agree Jax, having a focus on Main St. would be the best plan.

[Trae]

Soon there will be the pavilions at least. Maybe if that is popular enough during non business hours, other businesses nearby will follow. That's why I think retail on this part of main street may make sense - because it's in walking distance of the pavilions. If the pavilions are as hot as we all hope they are, people will want to open businesses within walking distance to try to cash in on some of that crowd.

Opening retail a few blocks away on Main makes the most sense if there is a fairly continual retail presence between the pavilions and the main street location. People are less likely to walk two deserted blocks to get to one isolated store than the are to walk two busy blocks. So I think that is the real issue.

That is a good plan. I think the Pavilions will be what we want it to be. I think all of Main Street should be lined up with retail and restaurants.

[dbigtex56]

I wonder why Hines didn't follow through with that 'architecturally significant' parking garage hoopla.

He's created a nasty view for the proposed new tower.

[lockmat]

I wonder why Hines didn't follow through with that 'architecturally significant' parking garage hoopla.

He's created a nasty view for the proposed new tower.

Does it say he gave it up in the portion of the article only viewable by subscribers?

And why do you say he created a nasty view?

[Jax]

It seems unlikely to me that the "architecturally significant" parking garage is going to be across the street from the proposed trophy tower and remain as unfinished looking as it currently does. Maybe they are waiting for the final design of the big tower before the put a facade on the garage?

And why do you say he created a nasty view?

He means that people working in the first 14 floors of the new tower will be looking out at the ugliest parking garage in Houston which was recently built across the street from the proposed site by Hines. Unless they are planning on improving it...

[dbigtex56]

Additionally, the interests of both residential and office tenants are to keep a secure premesis, but that becomes exceptionally difficult if the same elevator bank serves different populations that come and go at different hours.

Modern elevators can be programmed to service different floors at different hours.

Also, elevator key systems are common, effective and easily used.

[wxman]

Rendering?? It seems that some on this forum has already seen it.

[Trae]

I think only Fernz has seen it.

[gwilson]

I'm curious. What do you think the estimated cost of building a 50 story tower like this would be?

+100mm or -100mm?

[RedScare]

$200 mil (or more).

[gwilson]

wow. Is that in large part due to land cost, or is that construction only?

[Trae]

I think a lot of it may be land.

[gwilson]

I did some searches of projects on skyscraperpage and most of them in the sub 40 floor range are well under 100mm.

I've always wanted to build a tower.

My goal would be to build a completely self sustaining mixed use tower that combines office and living space and some dual spaces (living spaces with attached working spaces for at home professionals). ideally, the building would be able to keep running in spite of power outages, etc. It would also turn it's ability to generate power in to a revenue generator where the building could sell it's power to it's residents at a substantial discount over being on "the grid" and paying reliant or someone else.

Edited July 15, 2007 by gwilson

[RedScare]

The HBJ article said the building will bee 900,000 sq. At $200 psf, that would put it at $180 mil. The new Enron Tower, at 1.2 million sf, reportedly cost $300 mil to build, $250 psf. Admittedly, that tower was a Taj Mahal, but tower construction is expensive.

Interesting fantasy you have, g. Me, I fantasize about building high speed rail nationwide.

[jdbaker]

wow. Is that in large part due to land cost, or is that construction only?

It's overwhelmingly construction costs. A prime CBD block in Houston would only cost 10-15 Million.

[editor]

$200 mil (or more).

Wow, that seems like a lot.

Before my current home I used to live in a brand-new (completed in late 2006) 47-story building. It cost $60 million. I know residential buildings have different demands than commerical buildings, but a $140 million premium on a building of the same height seems like alot. Then again, I'm not in the real estate development game.

[Trae]

Here is a building that adds class A office space, retail (and a restaurant), plus residential pretty well. It is a 660 foot building being built in Atlanta's Buckhead District.

The Sovereign

Edited July 15, 2007 by Trae

[RedScare]

Editor, it is possible that the cost did not include buildout. That is common in condo towers. Any idea the square footage of the building?

BTW, another example, closer to home, is 5 Houston Center. It is 580,000 sf, and cost $115 mil to build in 2002....dead-on $200 psf.

[fernz]

From Fernz' description in the other topic, it sounds like this will look similar to the Houston City Centre project on the Shamrock site two blocks up. Not bad if you ask me. Both are 3/4 block projects, in this case saving wrapping around the Stowers Building. So would it be reasonable to guess parking on the quarter block on Fannin adjacent to Stowers, and the tower section on the half block along Main. This could be real nice.

I am sorry for misleading you. I did not mean angling as in the City Center project where the angle is on the elevation. I meant angling as seen in floor plan, meaning that it is not a square box. I would say the shape is "similar" to the PanAm building in NY. It is all curtain wall though, very slick, without any strong bands or patterns, as most of the buildings you can see on the architect's website (particularly this one: http://www.pickardchilton.com/pagProject.a...#39;&ID=43)

I saw a printed version of the rendering, so I apologize, I have no links or images to post. But I'll say it again, it is a nice, slick building, much better that their last tower (Calpine Center) but not another Pennzoil.

[gwilson]

The HBJ article said the building will bee 900,000 sq. At $200 psf, that would put it at $180 mil. The new Enron Tower, at 1.2 million sf, reportedly cost $300 mil to build, $250 psf. Admittedly, that tower was a Taj Mahal, but tower construction is expensive.

Interesting fantasy you have, g. Me, I fantasize about building high speed rail nationwide.

Well, I guess I'll keep with building big houses for a while. But who knows.

[TheNiche]

Modern elevators can be programmed to service different floors at different hours.

Also, elevator key systems are common, effective and easily used.

This is true, but the introduction of visitors to the mix of residents and office employees can create a security risk...and for people paying highrise prices, there is a strong tendency within that market to seek a commensurate level of building security.

I did some searches of projects on skyscraperpage and most of them in the sub 40 floor range are well under 100mm.

I've always wanted to build a tower.

My goal would be to build a completely self sustaining mixed use tower that combines office and living space and some dual spaces (living spaces with attached working spaces for at home professionals). ideally, the building would be able to keep running in spite of power outages, etc. It would also turn it's ability to generate power in to a revenue generator where the building could sell it's power to it's residents at a substantial discount over being on "the grid" and paying reliant or someone else.

How do you handle water purification and wastewater treatment and removal?

[woolie]

I did some searches of projects on skyscraperpage and most of them in the sub 40 floor range are well under 100mm.

I've always wanted to build a tower.

My goal would be to build a completely self sustaining mixed use tower that combines office and living space and some dual spaces (living spaces with attached working spaces for at home professionals). ideally, the building would be able to keep running in spite of power outages, etc. It would also turn it's ability to generate power in to a revenue generator where the building could sell it's power to it's residents at a substantial discount over being on "the grid" and paying reliant or someone else.

Natural gas is expensive electricity. Combined-cycle would be too large/complex for a single building, so it'd probably be just regular turbine, at half the efficiency (twice the fuel costs.) Your residents would strangle you after the first electricity bill. It would probably be several times the cost of grid electricity. If on the other hand, you mean switching over from grid to on-demand generation via diesel generator, this is a standard system hospitals, data centers, etc. use. In this case, your residents would strangle you when they realized the premium it added to their condos w.r.t. to the small benefit. Even then, it wouldn't be fast enough to switch over before all the computers in the building shut down. You'd have to add a very expensive Uninterruptible Power Supply system for that. And if you want to offer datacenter grade electricity, start adding in various line conditioners, triple redundant generators, etc..... I think there's a reason this doesn't exist in residential buildings It'd be cheaper just to give a small UPS system to each tenant for their computers.

My building has backup generators, but only because extended loss of electricity would be catastrophic. People could lose their entire life's work.

Edited July 15, 2007 by woolie