woody_hawkeye Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) Both bills have been signed by the governor. Next step will be some extraordinary measures to get the public out to vote, including disussion and education. Education, consultation, Voting Edited June 19, 2007 by woody_hawkeye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfootball Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Very cool. Great news for The Woodlands and Houston. Would like to see more of these kinds of deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy76 Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Is this woodlans specific? Or does /can it apply to other areas in the same boat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 unincorporated areas around texas are paying close attention to this legislation as it may benefit other developments. Legislation progressGov. Rick Perry signed into law May 14 legislation allowing regional participation agreements between cities and special districts.The bill, SB 1012, by state Sen. Tommy Williams, R-The Woodlands, is one of two key pieces of legislation needed to finalize the agreement brokered by Williams with the city of Houston to remove the threat of annexation in exchange for tax dollars to fund regional projects. this bill is not woodlands specificThe Texas House of Representatives passed the bill May 11 by state Rep. Rob Eissler, R-The Woodlands, which would expand the Town Center Improvement District to include and collect sales tax from most of The Woodlands in Montgomery County. Eissler said the TCID bill's passage in the Senate should not be a problem. Soon after its passage in the House, the Texas Senate received Eissler's TCID bill, as a substitute for a similar bill filed by Williams, which will speed its trip to the governor's desk, Eissler said. this bill is woodlands specificThe Woodlands' proposed agreement with Houston totals $45 million over 30 years plus an initial $16 million. In exchange, the city of Houston will not annex The Woodlands before 2014, when the community can decide its own government structure.The final hurdle in the legislative process will be the governor's signature on the TCID bill. Then the agreement must receive the blessing of Houston City Council and voters in The Woodlands in an expected November ratification election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 here we go. i've copied a letter going around the woodlands this morning.Historic Event! And a note by Claude Hunter:At approximately 3:45 pm on 5/24/07, the Texas House concurred with theSenate in passage of HB 4109 which allows for expansion of Town CenterImprovement District to include all of The Woodlands that is in Houston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Lucky Woodlanders! You don't even have a town yet, but you already have politicians making misleading statements about your taxes. Claude fails to mention that these "lower assessments/taxes" are lowered by increasing the sales tax at the mall stores by 1 cent, AND increasing sales taxes everywhere else in the Woodlands by 2 cents...equal to the combined City of Houston AND METRO sales taxes, I might add. I wonder if the overwhelming urge to call themselves "The Woodlands, Texas" will dull the pain of increased taxes, or if anyone will even notice. Ah, the joys of home rule and self-determination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 (edited) so, if i spend 10,000 a year in the woodlands, i'll pay an extra $200 in taxes. at the same time, my association fees could be cut in half (for me that would be $200, for katiedidit $400). seeing as i spend less than $400/mon outside of groceries, i could come out ahead. the people who spend the most will pay the most. let's not forget the people who travel to the woodlands to shop; they will be paying the lion's share.according to the woodlands development company:current pop (01/01/06)the woodlands 80,659montgomery co 375,51920 mile trade area 1,231,820projected pop (2010)the woodlands 102,893montgomery co 453,31320 mile trade area 1,456,679easily, there are more people from outside the woodlands who will be paying for "the woodlands, tx." the financial burden will shift, somewhat, from the homeowners to the spenders, whether or not they live here.more taxes to come from somewhere other than woodlands residents.... May 24, 2007, 9:57AMHotel business strong in Town Center areaLocal facilities stay booked up with mix of travel and conventionsBy BETH KUHLESChronicle CorrespondentThe hotel business is booming in The Woodlands, and it is getting harder and harder to find a room for visitors during weekdays. From the full-service to smaller, limited-service offerings, rooms are filling up."It's hard to find a room here, you often can't stay here," said Oak Ridge North Mayor Fred O'Connor, a member of the Town Center Improvement District board. "We had people come in and we had to put them up in Conroe."While many think of the mega-sized space in The Woodlands Waterway Marriott Hotel and Convention Center or The Woodlands Resort & Conference Center as the big winners in the community, it is actually the smaller hotels ringing Town Center that are leading the growth this year."Clearly, The Woodlands Town Center is becoming a regional destination for corporate meetings, conventions and leisure travel," said Frank W. Robinson, president of Town Center Improvement District."The strong corporate economy, coupled with the emergence of the destination appeal, have made The Woodlands Town Center an attraction for overnight visits. The full-service hotels meet the demands of certain segments of business and Town Center is fortunate to have upscale limited-service properties that attract leisure and business visits as well as corporate and convention groups."Between January and April, hotel taxes collected in Town Center grew 14.7 percent over the same period in 2006. The biggest increases were seen in smaller, limited-service hotels, which have been able to raise rates because of the demand..........Room for moreAnother element that may be leading to the overall success in Town Center is cooperation among the hotels. Instead of undercutting prices, the hotels are providing overflow for major conventions or groups that come to the area.At least two more hotels are in the pipeline for Town Center. Market Street is negotiating for a 70-room boutique hotel, which it hopes to announce by the end of the year, said Harold Dull, general manager of the shopping and office district.A 10-story hotel with 150 to 200 rooms was on the drawing boards by The Woodlands Development Co. near Waterway Square.full storythe tax burden for incorporation will not be completely on the backs of the residents, in fact, the tax burden could be less for many woodlands residents. Edited May 26, 2007 by bachanon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double L Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Lucky Woodlanders! You don't even have a town yet, but you already have politicians making misleading statements about your taxes. Claude fails to mention that these "lower assessments/taxes" are lowered by increasing the sales tax at the mall stores by 1 cent, AND increasing sales taxes everywhere else in the Woodlands by 2 cents...equal to the combined City of Houston AND METRO sales taxes, I might add.I wonder if the overwhelming urge to call themselves "The Woodlands, Texas" will dull the pain of increased taxes, or if anyone will even notice. Ah, the joys of home rule and self-determination. All that's really happening is that they are choosing to let the TCID govern The Woodlands instead of the city of Houston. Only the sales tax will be effected, not your property or income tax...and most the commercial development is in the town center anyways. So yeah, you're paying two more cents at McDonalds in exchange for avoiding Houston's high property taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I'd say that The Woodlands, TX has a 50/50 chance of being a success.I think they'll find they miss Big Brother planning their future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double L Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I think the Town Center Improvement District has shown to be very capable of governing The Woodlands if you look at what they've done in the Town Center and I think they've got good representation from all across The Woodlands. I think this is gonna be a near-perfect deal for Woodlands residents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 All that's really happening is that they are choosing to let the TCID govern The Woodlands instead of the city of Houston. Only the sales tax will be effected, not your property or income tax...and most the commercial development is in the town center anyways. So yeah, you're paying two more cents at McDonalds in exchange for avoiding Houston's high property taxes.Really? I need to check my math. Last time I checked, Houston's tax rate was 64.5 cents per $100. The Woodlands MUD and Assessment fees were a combined 74 cents per $100. So much for high Houston taxes.Here's some more fun facts. HISD tax is $1.47. Conroe ISD is $1.59. Harris County tax is $0.40. Montgomery County is $0.69.Combined City/County/School in Houston is $2.51 per $100.Combined MUD/Assessment/County/School in The Woodlands is $3.02 per $100. That's 20% HIGHER.Yeah, I think I'll move to the tax-free Woodlands and save a bundle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double L Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 (edited) I see your point, but to have added Houston's tax burden to all of that would have been too much strain and this is still the better deal which gives us the abillity to govern ourselves without affecting our property taxes. Edited May 25, 2007 by Double L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I see your point, but to have added Houston's tax burden to all of that would have been too much strain and this is still the better deal which gives us the abillity to govern ourselves without affecting our property or income taxes.Well, that is the point I am trying to make. If Houston annexed the Woodlands, it would take over the MUD payments, as well as fire and police protection, and streetlights. Therefore, your 74 cent MUD/Assessment tax would be replaced by Houston's 64.5 cent tax, resulting in LOWER taxes. You might still have some assessment for parks and swimming pools, but considering that most of the services, such as fire and sheriff patrols would be funded by Houston, the assessment would be a fraction of what it currently is.The reason I point this out is that you and others are clearly not doing your math. There are people that have a lot to gain by adding another layer of government to the Woodlands. You guys need to be asking tough questions. But, all I see is bad math. Obviously, it does not affect me, since I live in Houston. In fact, I would oppose annexation. But, your taxes are already 20% higher than ours, and they are going higher....and you are bragging about it.Makes no sense at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double L Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 (edited) That is efficient, you would have to appeal to the Texas state water board to get the district disbanded and the property handed over to Houston. I don't think there were efforts to do that.Basically, I think that the most important thing to Woodlands residents is the planning and we still have something that puts money into Houston, but you have a good idea that should be considered. Edited May 25, 2007 by Double L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 the assessment taxes will go down. so the .74 comparison will be moot.even if the houston taxes would have been lower, the services received for those taxes would have been abysmal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 What would the boundaries be, and would TW be able to annex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double L Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 The way the deal works is that Houston agrees not to annex in exchange for money from The Woodlands to pay for various capital improvement projects. Also, the Town Center Improvement District expands across all of The Woodlands, sometime before 2014 we will vote to approve a city government, probably modeled around the town center improvement district.I would not mind HPD, HFD or PWS coming out here, especially if we can do it in a way that will mean lower property taxes. I just want to see the Woodlands Master Plan and design review boards stay in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxman Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 We already are "The Woodlands, TX." That's what everybody puts on envelopes, including me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double L Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 It's not an incorporated city, but it is a census-designated place. What happened is George Mitchell bought the land, organized his master plan and only sold land to developers who agreed to build along with his plan. Then the Town Center Improvement District, Woodlands Community associations and the Homeowners assocation were formed along with design review boards in each of the villages. That is what is today called "The Woodlands". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody_hawkeye Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 Both bills have been signed by the governor. Next step will be some extraordinary measures to get the public out to vote, including disussion and education. Education, consultation, Voting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxDave Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I am a little confused, I tried to research the background but this seems to be a pretty confusing issue.Is this an opportunity for The Woodlands to eventually incorporate as their own city or just develop some sort of quasi-government to keep Houston off their backs for a little while longer?I would think as an attractive, affluent annexation target, the residents (citizens?) of The Woodlands would have tried to establish some sort of home rule long ago.Interestingly, this is a point where Houston seems to demonstrate the Texas spirit of independence more than the Dallas area. Houston has several huge areas that do not belong to any municipal entity (especially to the north and west) and these areas seem to resist any such action. Meanwhile in Dallas, almost every developed area belongs to one municipality or another (with a few exceptions). It kinda helps give Houston the image of a "frontier" town with people living out on "the range". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody_hawkeye Posted June 24, 2007 Author Share Posted June 24, 2007 (edited) I am a little confused, I tried to research the background but this seems to be a pretty confusing issue.Is this an opportunity for The Woodlands to eventually incorporate as their own city or just develop some sort of quasi-government to keep Houston off their backs for a little while longer?I would think as an attractive, affluent annexation target, the residents (citizens?) of The Woodlands would have tried to establish some sort of home rule long ago.This is the way it has unfolded: 1. Houston had an agreement for annexation rights years ago but the agreement also had a clause for withholding any action until about 2010. 2. As the expiration of the withholding clause approached, the community held meetings to determine what it wanted to be when it grew up. A formal project management process was put into place to determine this in an orderly fashion. 3. The "downtown" area of The Woodlands continued to develop and needed a 1% tax for the business section to operate, so a special tax district was established. 3. As data was collected and momentum gained on the parameters and vision of "adulthood" of The Woodlands, the community changed directions and began to see the need to be incorporated. The community association invited the mayor of Houston to give a keynote address to The Woodlands community in an annual meeting. He wished the community to be what it wanted to be.4. The community decided it preferred to have a special tax district as a stepping stone to incorporation. 5. The Texas senator representing the area had a meeting with the mayor and got an agreement to pursue self government. He got support from his peer in the House and they together put together two bills to enable this to occur. The rest is history of this last legislative session.6. Next the residents must approve the expansion of the special tax district of the downtown area to include the villages in Montgomery county. Then the one governmental body will be in place after officials are elected. Next would be efforts to incorporate. That will take a few years. Edited June 26, 2007 by woody_hawkeye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Interestingly, this is a point where Houston seems to demonstrate the Texas spirit of independence more than the Dallas area. Houston has several huge areas that do not belong to any municipal entity (especially to the north and west) and these areas seem to resist any such action. Meanwhile in Dallas, almost every developed area belongs to one municipality or another (with a few exceptions). It kinda helps give Houston the image of a "frontier" town with people living out on "the range".This is not an issue of independence on the part of Houston's suburban residents. It is an example of the City of Houston's leaders ferociously protecting its ETJ, versus the Dallas officials not caring. Since permission from the city is required to incorporate inside that city's ETJ, none of the Dallas suburban cities would exist without Dallas allowing it. In the 60s and 70s, the City did not care. Houston, on the other hand, not only aggressively annexed, but fought any attempts to hem it in.Dallas is now suffering from its shortsighted approach. Houston, while criticized by smart growth advocates, is relatively healthy by big city standards, due to its no incorporation policy. Note to Dallas whiners. This is only related to city government, not which city has neater buildings or a better nightlife or cool hotels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.