richardtb

I have a copy of the Greenwood King Houston market report and they compare 1/01/08-3/3/08 to 1/01/07 to 3/31/07 and it gives a totally different picture than the Chronicle's article which compares 2006 and 2007. For instance, the average days on market in Southampton area has gone up 439%.

Wow our area is up almost 20%. So much for the housing crisis.

Thanks for all the opinions.

There were other things about my visit that made me uncomfortable. It is "sell by owner," so the current owner showed us the house. When we asked her about the house, she didn't seem to know anything about anything. Pretty much said that she had just lived here and all the work was done by the previous owner. This seems a bit odd to me since both husband and wives are engineers and this does not seem to match with the personality of the engineers that I have known.

The next day, the owner emailed us the seller's disclosure statement which we had requested. In the form it mentioned that right before the put the house on the market they had a company do a property inspection report and a condition of property survey. Is that a common thing to do?

I have a strong suspicion that the more I will find out about the house (through a professional inspection..), the more potential problems will be uncovered.

The OP has already said the addition was done at least two owners ago. Whether or not it was done with a permit is kind of irrelevant now. So is the opinion of your architect buddy too really. On the other hand, make sure you get a decent inspector to check out all the structural issues involved. The current condition of the house is much more important to a potential buyer than how it came to be in that state.

The explanation is definitively 2. The additions did not use brick but aluminum siding. Also, there was foundation work done. My wife noticed that the hardwood in the first floor were somewhat slanted. However, the house felt solid, all doors closed very nicely.

Since those changes and repairs were make a while back (at least two owners ago), it looks like pretty complicated things to check whether the weight is handled adequately, and if we end up having a contract on the house it sound like I should I hire an engineer to check things out.

The house was probably re-bricked for one of two reasons:

1. The original brick was no longer available when the additions were made, and the owners had the whole house re-bricked for consistency.

2. The house had severe foundation problems at one time, which caused the original brick veneer to develop large cracks or fall off.

If a second story was added, you should check to make sure that adequate structural modifications were made to handle the additional weight. Look for sagging beams under the house. The additional weight of the additions may have caused the house to sink faster than usual. If you were still able to actually crawl under the house, you should be ok. Just make sure none of the beams are in direct contact with the soil.

Thanks a lot for all the responses. I was looking at a house in West U. It turned out that the crawl space was very, very small. So, it would have been pretty hard to get inside but I was able to look at it and seemed ok.

Fortunately, a couple of friends of hours (who are architects) came looking at the house with us. It turns out that the house was originally about 1,800 SF, however a long time ago they had added an additional 1,200 SF. (The seller did not mention this, but after it was pointed out to me, it seemed pretty clear.) That piece of information did not show on HCAD. The new parts were all on in the upstairs. They had converted the attic into living space and added additional portions to the upstairs. Given that the new parts were covered in aluminum siding, our friends opined that the addition may have been done sometime during the 60's or 70's.

The other thing that our engineer friend noticed was that the house had been re-bricked, since the bricks were not the type of bricks in use when the house was built.

I realize that this is not the conversation topic, but I hate starting a second conversation topic in the same day. However, if anyone has any comments on what this should mean to me (the additions, the re-bricking), I am all ears.

Richard,

To answer your questions:

1. Put a bid on the home you like the best at what you consider an acceptable and reasonable offer. You may decide to go in a little lower then work up to the acceptable/reasonable as well.

2. You only crawl the house upon an accepted and signed offer. If you do it prior you are making an investment in the house which will work to the sellers favor since you have invested time/money/clothes/lights/etc....

3. If you get an accepted offer then you can crawl or hire an inspector to crawl for you. If you find faults with the piers/beams/plumbing/etc.... then you can ask for these items to be addressed, money set aside to be fixed post closing, or a reduction in the sales price. If sellers will not agree then you can walk away and receive your option money back as long as you are within the option period.

Check the piers, beams, plumbing (like previous poster said run the water/flush the toilets), look for any termite damage or active termites, standing water, etc....

Our work week house is on pier and beam and we love it, fixing plumbing is a breeze, adding plumbing is easy, fixing the foundation is easy, etc... it's a good foundation for the soil that we have in the Houston area that tends to shift greatly.

What part of town are these homes located?

Thanks and good luck,

Scharpe St Guy

Thank you very much. Very helpful.

inspect the beams to see whether they are sound or rotten

inspect for termite damage

inspect beams to see whether more piers are needed, leveling needed.

inspect cast iron drains to determine their state.

as for getting bitten, wear long sleeve clothing, etc. obtain a powerful light so that the area you are inspecting will be well lit.

EDIT: also look for standing water. if there is then you'll have to figure out how to stop this from happening.

I am looking at houses to figure out which one to make a bid on. All the houses that I am considering have a crawl space. My question is should I go down to the crawl space before making the bid or should I just wait to go down until one bid is accepted and I can go see the crawl space with the inspector?

I have never seen a crawl space. So, if the answer is that I should see the crawl space before making the bid, I have two more questions:

1. What is it that I should be looking at/looking for? For instance, if I wanted to see the state of the piers, what would I be looking for?

2. What are the chances of getting bitten by a spider, snake or rat? Are there any things to do to minimize those chances?

Thanks.

Richard

Do I understand correctly then that "structural slab on pier and beam" means the same thing as "slab on builders piers"?

A structural slab on pier and beam is a concrete slab supported by piers and beams. A "pier and beam" has the same piers, but usually has wooden beams on top of it. Sometimes, they are steel support beams. A structural slab on pier and beam may look similar to a slab on grade, except that the slab is not supported by the dirt underneath, but rather by the piers and beams. Think of a parking garage, where the piers, or columns support horizontal beams. The slab is poured on top of the beams.

As for movement when the ground moves, a structural slab on pier and beam, because it is not in contact with the ground, will not move, as long as the piers were properly built.

I looked at another house and it said "foundation is structural slab on pier and beam." Again, how does that compare to just pier and beam? In other words, how does it do if the ground moves, how is it with respect to humidity & termites.

I just saw a house that had a crawl space, but instead of the floor being dirt, they had put concrete - with 8 drains.

I had read all the posts regarding slab vs. crawl space, but I have not read anything about crawl space with dirt floor vs. crawl space with concrete floor.

Any comments/opinions would be appreciated.

Richard

No, it is pier and beam. The answer that TheNiche give makes a lot of sense: There must be some drainage problem and so by having concrete and 8 drains, it drains better than if the water had to go through the soil.

The other reason why the answer ty TheNiche makes a lot of sense is that when we went to the open house all the windows were open, even though it was not all that warm that day. So, it makes sense that there are some humidity problem with the house and that is why they had all windows open for the open house (to get rid of mildew smell).

Are you talking about a pier on slab, similar to what you describe in a previous post?

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...mp;#entry196196

A house around the corner from me used this system. It consisted of a slab on grade, with a wood foundation built on top of it, creating a crawlspace. The floor ended up being about 3 feet above the slab. If you had asked this question about 3 months ago I could have taken a photo, but it is now covered with siding. I am not sure of the advantages of this system over a standard pier and beam, unless perhaps the slab is cheaper to build.

That house is the only one I have seen built in this manner. All of the others around me are built with pier and beam.

Thank you so much!!!

Yep, its like what I'd told you about. Pier and beam with tall headers. Bellaire and West U both require living areas to be built above the 500-year flood plain. When you were talking about drains, I'd originally thought that you were talking about vents in the headers, but now I've got a sense of what you're dealing with, where the drains feed water into the public sewers.

Its possible, I suppose, that something about the site and building codes made it difficult to route water away from the house and toward the street, so instead they just decided to route the water under the house, with the impermiable concrete floor and numerous drains as an attempt at keeping the soils around the piers from expanding and contracting each time that it rained, which could otherwise cause foundation trouble in a few years. I'd suggest that you look very closely at the site and watch closely how the ground slopes, and where water would likely go during a rain.

Thanks.

Here is the listings with pictures...

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Y

However, to show you the crawl space, I would have to go & take pictures of it.

The house is in the 500 year flood plain, so it would seem a bit excessive to go through this trouble in case of a flood...

If you have a photo, we can be more clear as to your description.

It sounds like a house such as is frequently built in Bellaire's flood plain, which is on pier and beam and elevated so that the living area is just out of the flood plain. They almost always use tall concrete headers with brick or stucco siding installed over them so that it looks from the exterior as though the house is on a slab, even if it isn't.

I just saw a house that had a crawl space, but instead of the floor being dirt, they had put concrete - with 8 drains.

I had read all the posts regarding slab vs. crawl space, but I have not read anything about crawl space with dirt floor vs. crawl space with concrete floor.

Any comments/opinions would be appreciated.

Richard

I did not go to see the house, but someone I knew went there on Saturday. This person told me that the highest bid for the house was $200K.

There is a new house which is being auctioned off in Bellaire. One can see it on Saturday or Sunday and bid on it on Sunday.

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Y

This seems strange. Do people think that this is something worth checking or just a marketing gimmick?

Thanks.

Richard

I will follow your advice. Thanks so much!

Tax records must be incorrect because the original home that was torn down wasn't even sold until June 2005.

This new construction was first listed in August 2006 with an estimated completion date of 4/30/2007. The listing was terminated on 5/4/2007 after 260 days. It was off the market from 5/4/2007 to 10/26/2007.

It was relisted in October 2007 with an estimated completion date of 11/15/2007. The listing was terminated after 21 days. It was off the market from 11/16/2007 to 1/9/2007.

It was relisted again two days ago with an estimated completion date of 2/28/2008. This time with the same agent that had the listing the first time.

Sounds to me like the builder is both wishy-washy and slow. This project is way behind schedule and the price has been all over the place. Here are the prices, in order:

1. 729,900 (8/2/2006)
   
2. 825,000 (12/7/2006)
   
3. 790,000 (3/27/2007)
   
4. 835,000 (4/17/2007)
   
5. 1,150,000 (10/26/2007)
   
6. 500,000 (1/9/2007)
   

I haven't seen the house, but my gut instinct says to pass on it. And heed sevfiv's warning. Being one block (2 streets) from the big toilet, I'd have to say that there are more desireable locations in Bellaire. Click on the link below and zoom out once...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...p;z=18&om=1

There is a new house which is being auctioned off in Bellaire. One can see it on Saturday or Sunday and bid on it on Sunday.

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Y

This seems strange. Do people think that this is something worth checking or just a marketing gimmick?

Thanks.

Richard

I have not been able to access realdata.net for a while. Does anyone know what happen? Are there any places now where one can find selling prices for houses (other than MLS)? HCAD does not provide that information anymore following the passage of the law that makes this information confidential in Texas.

Richard

Again, thank you very much for a very helpful answer. I was also worried about the stucco.

Yes, I had found that builders' address in Austin, but I thought that given that it was in a different town it was a different builder, but I wrong (another poster give a link to find all builders and got the same information that you provided).

About the excessive price, I agree, but there seem to be people willing to pay these prices.

For instance, the house on 2034 Dryden, 2216 sq feet (but a large lot: 8613 sq feet) sold for the asking price 749K.

i would say the engineer would be hired as part of the inspection. if i were you, since this is fake stucco (lots of problems in houston), i would also hire someone who specializes in stucco inspections/evaluations. there are just too many in houston that aren't flashed properly or have small cracks which results in water behind the walls, leading to rot and mold. you can probably walk around it yourself and if you see cracks, even small ones, i'd stay clear immediately. builders use it because it is cheap which maximizes their profit.

IMO i'm not sure your bid (piered vs. not) would be that much different when you're looking at a house that is 750k. this neighborhood ALWAYS amazes me at what some of the houses go for but with the market as it is....i'm pretty sure the price will drop.

BTW, I find it odd that you can't find the builder, yet it is supposedly a new house that hasn't been lived in yet. this in itself isn't a positive sign IMO.

EDIT: not sure if this is the same company but...

Markee Construction, Inc.

Builder No. 32302 311 West 5th StreetSuite 902

Austin, TX 78701

5124809312 Mark Schuh

Thanks. I found the builder with the link, although it was not all that informative. This is what it said:

Number of Homes Registered:

0

Number of Inspection Requests with

construction defect found:

0

Number of Inspection Requests with

constuction defect(s) not found: 0

Number of Inspection Requests Withdrawn: 0

The recommendation for an engineer would be helpful.

If you want to locate the building, you can call the GHBA (most builders in Houston are affiliated with them, even though I have chosen not to). The other organization is the TRCC ( http://www.trcc.state.tx.us/ ). All builders in Texas are required to register with TRCC and be approved by them. So theoretically, if they are still in business, they must be registered with TRCC.

If you intend on making an offer on the home, make sure there is a clause in the contract that your agreement to purchase the home is dependent upon independent inspection by an inspector and engineer of your choosing. That way if it fails, they can't hold you liable.

I can put you in touch with my engineer if you need one.

Thanks you answered all my questions.

However, I assume that you only hire an engineer once your bid on a house has been accepted, and as part of the inspection.

So, the question, is in figuring out how much to bid for a house, how much should you take into account the fact that it is slab on builder pier foundation.

For instance, we looked at

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Y

The builder was Markee Construction, for which we couldn't find any information. So, I doubt they would have an engineer on staff.

So, my question is how much should I put a value on the fact that is says builder pier, versus a similar house that was built 5 years ago that just says it is a slab foundation.

My guess is that what you are saying is that one cannot give much value.

Again, thanks for your great answer.

Richard

if you're buying something built before the 70's, many times the drains are cast iron which fail over time. my parents had to replumb one portion of their house because of this. it can be expensive depending how the house is constructed. if it was on piers, upgrading the plumbing is MUCH easier and less expensive.

as for slab on piers, i know my aunt and uncle's house was built in 70 and they had piers put in during construction. my aunt's uncle (who was a contractor) recommended the piers even with the additional cost. i can tell you they have no foundation problems.

unless the piers were engineered (most pier companies don't have engineers on staff) there really is no guarantee. an officemate bought a house that had been piered and had so many moisture issues (due to unsealed concrete) that he ended up moving out of a portion of his house that had the problem and sealed the problem himself. LOTS of work.

IMO if you're concerned hire an engineer to do an evaluation on the slab.

Thanks. When you say to avoid slab, should one also avoid the new constructions that say "slab on builders pier"? As far as I can see on HAR the only houses that are not built on a slab are the houses built before 1940.

That makes much more sense. Frankly, I had never heard of a slab on builders pier before. Your description sounds like the house had severe foundation problems that were cured by installing piers after the fact. While this may be a proper fix, and it may eliminate future problems (I don't know), your statement that the floors look uneven make me wonder if the job was done right, or if the problem was not cured. I would also have an inspector look very closely at the water damage. Again, if the repairs were of sufficient quality to eliminate a future leak, you are fine. If not....

All in all, I would steer clear of foundation problems...existing or repaired...period. The entire house sits on the foundation. Whereas pier and beam foundations can be easily shimmed, slabs are not so easy to fix. In Houston's clay soils, a slab is a potential catastrophe. Good ones exist, but a repaired one is proof that something went wrong. The proliferation of slabs in Houston is not proof that they are a superior product...merely that they are less expensive to install. If you have other houses in your range to choose from, I'd keep looking.

***DISCLAIMER***

I have not seen this house, so I do not know the cause or extent of the retrofit. Hire a good inspector if you really like the house.

My mistake. I meant "water damage" not "flood damage." The house is not in a flood area. It it possible that the water damage has nothing to do with possible foundation problems.

I don't know, you tell me. Does flood damage on the CEILING concern you?

I have read the multiple posts that discuss the advantages of house with a crawl space foundation over a house with a slab foundation.

I did not see in those posts a discussion of slab foundation on builders pier. I am assuming from the posts that this should be just like a slab foundation

except it is less likely that the foundation is going to crack. Am I correct? Are there are any questions about the builders pier foundation that a buyer

should ask, or does one just have to rely on the reputation of the builder?

Also, I have seen a few houses from the 1950s that say "slab on builders pier." I am assuming that this means that the house was originally built on a slab and then they added builders piers later on to prevent foundation problems. For the house that I was looking (built in 1950), the documentation says "slab on builders pier" and it says that in 1995 "45 10' bell bottom piers installed." Also, the flooring was not all that straight and I could see on the ceiling of the first floor that there had been some flooding. How concerned should I be?

Thanks.

Richard

1. I find it a bit politically biased.

2. The Sunday travel section could be longer.

3. The Sunday real estate section should have at least on column worth reading.

If I look at a property that was sold (say) in 2003 on HCAD, the reported market value and the appraised value for 2003 on the website are the same. I assume that these values are equal to the price at which the property sold. Am I correct?

Also, on the HCAD site it says

"You can review a complete list of sales in our records, as well as more detailed information on each property sold, at our information and assistance center located on the third floor at our office at 13013 Northwest Freeway in Houston."

Has anyone gone there? What additional information can one get by going to the office? (E.g., more recent information...)

Thanks!

Richard