Dieseldrvr

Once in a while I drive by the huge parking lot along Reed Rd. between Almeda and 288 - recently a gate was installed with the Houston Rodeo logo and "Dick Gray Park" (? iirc) above. My question is - does anyone know what the outlines are in the aerial image? Is this lot used for rodeo staging? Has it always been a rodeo lot?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=2030+Reed+Road,+Houston,+TX&aq=&sll=29.655304,-95.395757&sspn=0.007021,0.013733&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=2030+Reed+Rd,+Houston,+Harris,+Texas+77051&ll=29.654146,-95.395011&spn=0.001765,0.002411&t=h&z=19

The Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo owns that land, they bought it in parcels over time going back many years. The full lot borders Reed, Almeda, and West Airport roads. The contestants lot is there, where many of the rodeo cowboys park their rigs and have their horses, the Carnival employees live in a lot over there in their rigs and have their equipment ready. The paved portion of the lot is the large Reed Rd park and ride operated by HLSR, it's a great way to get to and from the rodeo because you bypass alot of the traffic. There's also a committee there called Breeders Greeters who stages livestock exhibitors before sending them over to the Reliant livestock gates. They have had alot of work done out there to make this a great area for the Shows use.

I always remember celebrity watching. Either my parents would drop us off, or we would ride our bikes, depending on the weather, to the Galleria with our stack of baseball cards. We would wait all around the entrance to the Westin Galleria, and would get autographs from every player we could identify. I don't know if the teams all still stay there or not, but all the teams playing the Astro's would stay there and we would all sit around with pockets of sharpies, waiting for autographs. Oh, and sneaking up too the health club to smoke on the patio and look in the windows on the track to the ice rink. And snagging some food from the meeting rooms in the hotel when you didn't bring enough money to last you past the arcade and candy store.

My Canadian friends are missing the Philadelphia Cream Cheese - Dill Dip...couldn't understand (at first) why we drink so much Iced Tea (nice alternative to water) & Light Beer...now they know, 100 degree weather. They say that Molson Canadian Beer here is different than at home.

Charles Chip tin's were the best! I remember using the tins for everything growing up.

Side note - Molsen beer is very different here in the US. I used to date a girl from Alaska and we would get it from over the border and it is a ton better.

In the end, the Texans and the HLSR are just building up some really bad PR.

No, in the end, they are saving their revenue's, one of which is a non profit who provides far more than any hotel would provide to Houston. They are looking out for their LEGAL contracts which are thankfully protected by law, not just the whims of people wanting to give away county owned land.

Spec's opened in Houston in 1962 and is still operated by the same family. They also have stores in Beaumont.

All hail the great Spec's!! The downtown store is the Greatest Place On Earth!! Walt Disney has nothing on the Spec's empire.

Oh, and the great Shudde Bros Hatters is closing, or may have already. They couldn't justify staying in that location. Neil Shudde has moved all of the equipment to the Brookwood Community and is training the good resindents on how to use the equipment, some of it is turn of the century equpment that hasn't been reproduced in a better way. I used to work there restoring old hats, the factory there in the house has some amazing history that alot of people never get to see. Using that old equipment was a blast. Interestingly they are only 1 of 2 if I remember correctly, that is allowed to stamp the Resistol and Stetson hat brands back into restored hats. I helped to restore an original General Sam Houston hat for the museum, was very satisfying work. It's amazing how much business they do with the arts field, Broadway shows have used their hats for many many years, as have many movie prop companies. Many famous people passed through their shop, many I had the honor of working on their hats.

Indeed they are very open, and going strong. Many many homes in Houston have been built with the superior lumber from the Montalbano family. Big Johnny has been at the helm of the flagship Houston store for a long time, and his son John Jr is currently working his way up there, as he has done since a child, and his brother Vincent is working under their Uncle's tuttlege at the Shepherd store. A great family that has done alot for Houston, I have been friends of theirs for a long time. Interesting story, Francesco Montalbano, the original who immigrated to the US from Italy, was going through NOLA entering the country, he could only say in english "mill" as his former occupation, so they put him to work in a saw mill in East Texas, he actually worked in a flour mill. He saved money and moved to Houston to start a grocery market, and sold firewood on the side. The wood business worked for him far more than the food business did, and that's how the family was transformed into the lumber biz. His son Joseph married Sadie Butera before taking over the business from Francesco. Mama Sadie was a great woman who recently passed away. They are cousins to the Buteras, Carrabba's, Mandola's, Maida's, and many other Italian families in Houston.

Another note, if schools count, St. Thomas High School has been around since 1900 and is going strong, IWA downtown predates it though I know.

Bah, I think it should be at least 60 if not 70. There's no lights, no people crossing the roads, and a barrier, should be at least freeway speeds. And should be 50 all the way to Chimney Rock.

It's not gastly, it's just not fancy Italian food. It's more like American-Italian. The lasagna is quite good and it's hard to eat the whole thing.

Would wholeheartedly agree with you, Americanized Italian. And in a city like Houston with such amazing Italian selections and heritage, it's hard to stomach half done Italian food, same goes for Romano's and Olive Garden. Stick with the good ones, usually non chains, though Carrabba's seems to have done it very well.

Welcome to the HAIF!

There are no "hurricane zones". Hurricanes can potentially affect any location in or near Houston. You might want to look at the flood plain maps.

30-45 minutes from the coast puts you on the south east side of Houston. You might want to look at Clear Lake.

Honky tonks tend to be outside safe neighborhoods.

That's not true at all! Blanco's and Whiskey Creek, and Armadillo Palace are all in very nice neighborhoods, one is in River Oaks. And all of those areas are 45 minutes from Galveston, as long as you don't worry about the rest of the slowpokes going 45 down 45!

If I were to want a vacation house in Houston, it would either be near downtown to enjoy all of the amenities and then drive to the various outdoor events like the beach, or state parks, or hunting/fishing. Or I would buy a house on the Lake in Clear Lake for they have the most life of any lakeside community near Houston, and the neighborhoods are nice and close to water type environment. Personally, I would probably get a condo downtown for a base, and possibly some land west of Houston or near Brenham for a small low maintenance ranch to have fun on.

It was better when it was the Confederate House, but political correctness fixed that a few years ago. Bring on the high rise.

I would somewhat agree with you, although I thought it was very good. Luckily Houston is blessed to have a large number of great Italian restaurants and grills. But hopefully this restaurant will be reborn in some capacity, because the staff and the food and the Happy Hours were great.

This is indeed sad, this is one of the best restaurants in Houston over the years it's been there. They never should have changed the name, but the food has not suffered over time, truly a Houston gem, hopefully they can find a way to relocate it.

Don't leave out St. Michaels on Sage Rd. You have to drive into the parking lot and view it from the east elevation.

I secong that for sure, I am biased though, I went to school there a long time ago. I would also see the whole campus of St. Anne's down the street, it's beautiful also, both churches are great inside and out. For a stunning church, don't miss Sacred Heart CoCathedral in Galveston, it's amazing, and old. And there's another church, don't remember the name, in La Marque I think, very odd looking modernist church. And even though it's a drive, the Mission's in South Texas are great, Goliad and Gonzales aren't too far. There's also a new church in Pearland, Catholic, that is gorgeous inside and pretty nice outside, attended a wedding there, and it was great in there.

Eversole forcing Rodeo and Texans hand?

County renews effort for deal on Dome hotel

I'd say more like he's forcing anyone who comes forward with an idea to make sure they deal honestly and fairly with the Texans and Rodeo who are the major tenants to whom the County has contractual obligations.

I have to go with one and only one vote, as I do not find most any of them attractive, Dominique WAS hot, before the haircut and the fact that she just bugs me. The hottest news anchor I have ever seen, Houston or not:

ILONA CARSON all the way, she is one tall long legged Texas Blonde!

I just wish she was on more, they're really wasting a great face for the news.

FAIL

How long (days) is the Rodeo in operation at Reliant Park a year compared to a hotel?

2 months a year since 1966 I think, by far the parks largest tenant of it's time. What does that have to do with adding convention space to the site for the county's use, at no cost to them? Instead of a hotel which would lease away county land for 50+ years?

if it were making money, this discussion wouldn't be happening. for a three week event to dictate how the facility is used for the remainder of the year seems ludicrous, particularly when the facility is costing taxpayers money.

That's the beauty of the Dome redevelopment by the Rodeo, it would be developed into a facility that could be dictated by the county to be used for whatever purpose they want to make money, concerts, sporting events, conventions, shows, whatever. The hotel is the only proposal so far dictating the entire use of the facility, so you are against the hotel then?

You could still have that museum with the hotel.

As you could with an event centered redevelopment, and it would be owned by the County.

...and when it sits empty the rest of the year who does it impact?

What are you talking about? No currently used facility sit's empty for the rest of the year, please explain?

Umm, hotel provides maybe 3,000 per DAY, 365 days a year. Rodeo 100,000 for 18 days. Additionally, hotel patrons spend several hundred dollars per day, all taxed, whereas the Rodeo's own statement says rodeo goers spend $22.

You're right. BIG difference.

Hmm, 2,000,000 people spending that kind of money is a lot if they're spending it at the hotel over 20 days not to go to HLSR fund. 3000 over the time period in question, 20 days, is not nearly as much, considering the vast amount of the money they will spend would be at the hotel, not Rodeo, since we're debating whether Rodeo would lose money, core to the issue. The fact is it violates the lease agreements.

We're gettting way off base here. The original argument is a simple one. The Texans and the HLSR feel that the private entity that's seeking to redevelop the Astrodome into a mega hotel and resort would ultimate hurt their operations financially. Neither the Texans or HLSR has given a pretty compelling example of how this would be the case. In fact, the argument has been made that such a facility would probably help their operations monetarily.

The idea that the HLSR may/has propose(d) tearing down Reliant Arena and then converting the Astrodome into a facility that would serve the same purpose (for them) as does Reliant Arena currently, is hilarious. Period. I mean, How self serving can you get?

I agree, way off target, I apologize if I have come off sounding rude at times, but there is too much misinformation. The argument IS simple, the fact is there would be many dollars spent at the Hotel, directly impacting the Rodeo and possibly the Texans, no dispute there, unless you say no money will be spent at the hotel? Nice fantasy. Hotel provides: 3000 maybe, Rodeo provides 100,000 per day, big difference in who provides the concession spenders, and a new hotel with what they are proposing would certainly get many of those dollars that the Rodeo brings in. And fact is that the ARC proposal directly violated the lease agreements and contracts, so it's their fault for not doing due diligence to make sure their plan was feasible, no one elses. And the idea that the redevelopment into a County owned event facility is only serving HLSR simply isn't true, how does the Arena currently only serve the rodeo? The Houston Comet's would beg to differ with you, as it's their new home, as it is to many concerts and other events, so how is that only serving one group?

I agree, the HSLR and the Texans are the reason Harris County taxpayers have a $350 million bond debt, paid for with my tax dollars.

I am deeply inDEBTED to you for that.

If you are so against the entire facility that the County owns, why are you not saying tear it all down? The 350 million wasn't provided by you, it was paid for mostly by Texans, HLSR, and hotel taxes, so you provided some tax breaks for building it? Wow, I'm sure you've more than made that up by revenue generated, not to mention the economic impact and extra taxes for having all the facilities they either built themselves or helped bring about and paid partially for. So there you go, remember that next time you say you want or use county facilities in the same breath you say you are complaining about the debt they cause, you're counteracting your own point.

And there you have it folks! That great charity, the Houston Livestock Show & Rodeo, the charity that we built a $350 million roofed stadium for, is so grateful to us taxpayers that they'll sue us if we get in their way! Thanks for the heads up, we'll take it under advisement.

Where did I say sue, I would say the County would have to offer up this at minimum in order to get HLSR to agree to waive it's legal lease terms in order to let this hotel be built. Why would they give up millions in revenue to it's charity on a project they feel hurts the site as a whole and doesn't best represent the citizens? That would be a fiscally stupid idea, certainly not in the best interests of the charity recipients. And again, the Rodeo helped build that stadium for YOU, and provided that roof so you are comfortable while you watch events in the stadium THEY helped build. Do you go to OTC, ever been to a car show, or ANY event prior to the Center being built??? THEY ARE THE REASON YOU WERE ABLE TO DO THAT. Hmm, I guess they have given you quite a bit huh?

He's just repeating the Rodeo's talking points, as enumerated in THIS document.

Do you dispute these facts?

I notice that, like the document itself, nowhere does diesel explain why we have a 15% hotel tax to retire the bonds on these facilities, if the Rodeo's rent is covering all of the costs. I also wonder why the Rodeo waited until AFTER a proposal to redevelop the Dome was made to suddenly tell us that they could use it themselves. He also failed to point out that the cost to build Reliant Stadium increased $50 million to add the retractable roof that the Rodeo required to keep their marketing phrase, "The World's Largest Indoor Rodeo".

While he assaults my "logic", diesel never offers any hard numbers disputing my points.

Do you also dispute that the Rodeo supported and paid for construction overrun's and costs, as I understand is more than 50 million dollars to make your Reliant Stadium that you watch the Texans in, and other events, but don't quote me on that, I'm not anyone involved with that deal. But numerous articles I have seen refer to the investment the rodeo had to make in order to bring the NFL to Houston and build the facility.

The 'barn' conclusion is what was gathered by a description of how it'd be put to use. They don't call it a barn because that'd be bad PR. But if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. And if the duck can dance, then its a dancing duck...but it's still inescapably a duck. People are just calling it like they see it with the barn comments.

So I guess by your lack of logic, Reliant Center is a barn? Because that's what it is for the entirety of the Show, so is The AstroArena, is that a barn? How do you come up with this stuff? Was the old compaq center a circus because it had one every year? That was absolutely not the description given, it was given that would be the use of it during the show, the rest of the year it would function as the rest of the facilities that do that same thing during the show, a county earning event facility. So try again with something real.

The County has three basic ptions available: 1) tear it down, 2) do nothing and pay maintenance, or 3) find someone to take this massive liability off their hands. Tearing it down is actually more expensive than maintaining it into perpetuity, so option 1 is off the table. And given that there's going to be a substantial cost to doing nothing, the County could technically pay somebody some amount of money to assume control of the dome and be better off than they are now; paying anybody would be politically infeasible, however...and besides, there's probably sufficient market demand that they'll be able to come out ahead by having someone do something with it. So option 2 is very unlikely. Whether it be the ARC, the HSLR, or some other entity that takes over the dome is besides the point. You said that a convention hotel there would "provide the county nothing", but that is materially false. Redevelopment plans are far better than the basic alternatives, regardless of who carries them out.

The real issue, as far as the County ought to be concerned, is which entity can pay the highest price to take over the dome! They ought to bear in mind that converting the dome to a convention hotel may piss off the HSLR bigwigs, but it won't cause them to put a stop to the rodeo, so Harris County is still going to realize income from HSLR operating at Reliant Park one way or the other. And sure, the amount that can be charged to HSLR to lease facilities each year may be somewhat less, but a convention hotel generates property taxes, hotel taxes, sales taxes, and liquor taxes, not to mention several hundred permanent year-round jobs for people that go out and spend their earned money elsewhere within the county, and not to mention that a convention hotel with large facilities that is closely aligned with the TMC is sorely needed and will further our economic development in that area.

1. tear it down, Rodeo is completely against this and would fight for this to never happen, they could use the facilities.

2. Still not listening? The county isn't paying anything, it's cash flow positive as it sits from Rodeo alone, so you're making money.

3. You're saying it's better monetarily for the County to lease it 50 plus years to a private firm to make most of the money, versus let a group redevelop it at their own expense, Rodeo's, and DONATE it back to the county as they have done numerous times with the facilities there, and would pay to rent it back every year, and it would generate direct event money for the County and improve the total event package offered at Reliant domain? Again, no rocket scientist to figure out the Rodeo's plan would substantially provide more money to the county than a few tax dollars. Not to mention all the jobs to renovate and operate the facility, might not be as many as the hotel, but would the County sacrifice all of that for a few service jobs that will probably be around anyways by a hotel probably built offsite? So leases, total facility donation and redevelopment cost donation, and Event revenue don't add up to taxes? I'm sure you would be upset when the County has to reimburse the Rodeo for millions in lost revenue because the ARC violates the legal leases and contracts between the County and Rodeo, there goes all of your tax revenue.

Rodeos can be thrown in tents. Thriving cities can't. In my reasoned opinion, Harris County needs to do what is most clearly in their best interests, and a convention hotel will have a stunningly positive impact. Certainly a better impact than a barn.

Unfortunately for you, this Rodeo can't, I doubt there's enough tents in the state that could handle this show. I seriously doubt Houstons "thriving" status rests on this hotel being built at ONLY this site on County land. Again, I have no idea where people get this barn concept, I guess that Reliant Stadium is strictly a rodeo arena, not an NFL stadium, just because it has a rodeo in it?

It certainly is a PR war. The millions of dollars given to your charity come from the same citizens who pay taxes to build that facility. If your charity assists in the destruction of that iconic facility, many of the taxpayers who also fund your charity will be upset. They may decide to take their disposable income elsewhere. You ignore that reality at your charity's peril.

As Niche pointed out, an adaptive reuse of the Dome will not only save the taxpayers (your charitable contributors) millions of dollars in mothball expenses, it will generate positive cashflow to the County. The only suggestion I have seen from you or the Rodeo is to tear down an income producing facility (Reliant Arena) and move those events to the Dome. That does little for the taxpayers (your charitable contributors). It doesn't take an economist to do that math.

No one is trying to get rid of the Rodeo, or even diminish it. We ARE saying that the taxpayers that own the Rodeo Grounds be considered. While there may well be 35,000 volunteers and 19,000 committee members, the 2,000,000 paying customers are the ones who pay the bills and fund the scholarships. And, we are also the ones who want to save the Dome. You would be wise not to dismiss our concerns so easily.

Once again, your statements are totally frought with misstatements and I can't seem to understand where you come up with this stuff. Please find one reference ANY Rodeo official, or I have EVER ALLUDED OR IMPLIED that destruction of the Dome would be what they are trying to do? The Rodeo is trying to preserve the facility MORE THAN ANY OTHER GROUP! Where do you come up with this stuff? Also the Charity that you talk about returns 87% of all of those millions to the community, so 87 cents of every single dollar you spend out there goes back to a portion of the community to help education, this is not a for profit organization. And where do you not hear the fact that the taxpayers are not spending a single dime on the dome's mothball expenses, the Rodeo has paid those and every penny of expenses 5 times over EVERY YEAR. so that argument is no longer valid, because the Rodeo ALONE keeps the Dome CASH FLOW POSITIVE AND ALWAYS HAS, it doesn't take even a high school degree to add and subtract the simple math, if all of the yearly expenses are 2 million, including lights and ALL expenses, which that's probably an overstatement, and the Rodeo brings the county well in excess of $10 million, you do the math. I feel the need to capitalize words because you don't seem to be reading clearly. What of any of this is not understood? Where do you see anyone dismissing the views and the best interests of the citizens?