adagio

When people refer to "new folks" causing the area to decline, they are generally referring to the explosion of apartment complexes and the lower-income people that inhabit them.

It's not about what they look like.

It's about what they do.

CDeb is right on target with the last post. A website that you may want to check out would be http://www.greatschools.net/

It is very interesting to hear what the community - including students and teachers have to say about the schools for the neighborhoods that you are considering.

I don't think the F-2 is dead, unfortunatly

What I seem to recall is that the idea of expanding 2920 or incorporating the GP with 2920 was asked as an alternative to the F-2 segment. And the GP association in all their infinite wisdom decided that the need for both was apparant.

I still think the F-2 segement is alive and kicking just out of the public eye. We will wake up one morning with construction equipment behind our homes one morning without warning.

I agree that dropping F2 would be too good to be true. I often wonder how much of the Grand Parkway project currently has gone under the public radar. Also I do wonder with all the recent news of TX Dot being underfunded, if the Grand Parkway will remain on the current schedule for construction. If all segments of Grand Parkway are still being constructed as scheduled, where is the funding coming from?

Much of Grand Parkway project is a controversial - not just segment f-2. Can TXDot give priority to this project over other projects that are much needed and wanted by taxpayers in the area? Projects such as widening SH 249 to Tomball , widening Stuebener Airline from Spring Cypress, adding lanes to Kuykendal from fm 2920 northward are a few projects in my area that should be addressed before building the costly Grand Parkway.

I am in agreement with Mr. Football on the fm 1960 neighborhood. When we moved to Houston in 1998 we rented a house in Westador. On the whole it was a nicely built house. It was going to need some repair work, however most houses in the 30 year old range do need work. What caused us to move further up north was the demographics. Our daughter was getting ready to go to middle school the following year and her elementary school teacher was strongly hinting that we consider placing her in another area. She felt that the Middle School we were zoned to was a rough school. We now live in Northampton. I see a lot of clear cutting and building when there are buildings nearby that are vacant. There are also an abundance of neighborhoods going in where there were once cow fields. Also, I have seen the demographics in my classroom change over the last five years. I do wonder how long it will take before we have a similar situation to fm 1960 where demographics as well as development greatly impact the value of properties.

Harris County has little to no zoning. Anything can go onto vacant land and most of the time the land is clear cut and the soil level is raised because of drainage issues.

From my personal experience, residents who have land that abut commercial land have no control over what will go onto the land on the other side of their property lines. The commercial developer on the other side of the property line usually has deeper pockets. Furthermore governing boards in subdivisions choose not to get involved.

After living in a house on the edge of a subdivision for seven years we have learned that in the future if we end up buying another property in Harris County or move to another city with a similar situation , we will buy in the middle of an established area where we can see what has been built around the neighborhood and all the infrastructure is in place.

I was just hoping for the Grand Parkway to be a six lane freeway, not some gigantic monster (TTC).

.... and I am hoping that the powers to be at TX Dot would realize that building a four, six, eight (whatever size) lane highway through the middle of neighborhoods and right by public schools is not in the best public interest for residents of Spring. Nor for that matter, contrary to the current DEIS is it safe.

I actually like much of the rationalization that is used for why the Trans Texas Corridor should not be built. Some of it is applicable to the Grand Parkway and should find its way into public comments. Thank you for the information Pineda.

These people are happy because they won't lose their property for the addition of a road that is not intended for the residents, but intended as a bypass around Houston proper. It will be a heavy traffic road for traffic traveling along the future I-69 corridor. This is not intended for the locals to gain access to I-45, or FM 249. The people building this road could care less about the residents, which is beconing more obvious as this project moves forward.

In addition, residents of both Windrose and Gleannloch subdivisions should be concerned because both have schools near this highway that will used by traffic traveling along the future I-69 corridor. This will be a concern for parents with children with asthma and breathing problems. In addition, the placement of the preferred alignment will be a concern for property owners because their properties will lose some marketability with potential customers. This is no longer just a problem pertaining to Klein Oak and surrounding schools.

Does the GP come off 249 heading east right ontop of the now existing Boudreax road, or a few yards south of Boudreax road like the original design? The new map on the flier is very misleading as I think is the intent.

And in the Gleannloch Farms edition where you state it passes less than a mile from Frank ES, it is more like it passes about 500 to 1000 yards from it.

You are correct on both accounts. The map shown on the website does not have a scale of miles, nor does it show all the development that has gone on in the last six months. I do not think Frank Elementary is even shown on the map.

The map in the flier is completely useless.

Forgive my lack of knowledge about the ongoing issues with the proposed Grand Pkwy, but which neighborhoods are going to be affected by this? And how are they getting screwed?

It's okay Mr. Football, many residents that will be impacted by the F2 preferred alignment still do not realize the full impact of the alignment. The Grand Parkway Segment F2 is not a rural highway as stated in the past DEIS. The roadway will be more like Beltway 8 or Hardy Tollroad (Tx Dot is planning on high volume for this segment - The Grand Parkway Association will be using toll revenue from F2 to build more roadways)

Going from East to West the preferred alignment of F2 will impact the following neighborhoods and schools.

From I 45 the Grand Parkway will run next to the railroad track (which will be relocated in sections to accomodate the highway). The Grand Parkway will pass directly behind Forest Ridge and Forest North subdivisions. It will go through the middle of Mossy Oaks and Fox Hollow subdivisons (not to worry say Grand Parkway officials - they will elevate the roadway in those neighborhoods). It will go through the middle of Hyde's Crossing and cross over Gosling (once again elevated). It will then pass within less than a mile from Northampton Pines and Northampton subdivision. The Grand Parkway will pass within 1000 feet from Klein Oak High School (elevated) - and be located under a mile from Hildebrandt Intermediate and Northampton Elementary School.

The highway will then cross Kuykendahl Road and pass right next to Spring Terrace. It will go through the back end of the Klein ISD property that Krimmel Intermediate school is currently being built upon. (It will also be less than a mile from Benignus Elementary School - which is at the entrance of Windrose subdivision.

The Grand Parkway will be located next to Willow Trace, Pinewood Place, Inverness Estates, Glen Hollow, Sugar Berry Place Cottage Gardens, and Gleannloch Farms. As it passes by Gleannloch Farms, it will be located under a mile from Frank Elementary School which is due to open August 2008. It will then pass next to Northern Point, Willow Falls, Three Lakes, and Pinecrest. As it passes these subdivions, it will be under a mile from Kohrville Elementary School.

Many of the neigborhoods that I have cited above have houses built right up to where the alignment has been marked. While many residents would appreciate having accessibility, I am personally not sure how many want to live right next to a freeway with the noise, light, air pollution, and flooding issues that accompany such a project.

The information I am giving you is on http://www.grandpky.com/home/ in the segment section. You can also access the revised DEIS from this website. I am pretty sure there are other subdivisions that are going to be impacted because I continue to see new development spring up as I drive both FM 2920 and Boudreaux Road - The map for the F2 segment of the Grand Parkway needs to be updated.

I hope this gives you some insight into what is happening in this part of Spring.

As far as the DEIS goes, we have received confirmation that the analysis into routes into southern Montgomery County have been as fully evaluated as those first proposed solely in Harris County. (This analysis was clearly missing from the other DEIS, hence the need for a Revised DEIS in the first place.) The need for the route in the southern Montgomery County has been shown to be greater than here in northern Harris County; it's just a matter of where the route can be located.

Just curious... why doesn't the Grand Parkway website show any alignments going into Montgomery County? If TxDot is evaluating different routes for F2, I would think that there would be proposed alignments going north of alignment f into Montgomery County.

Read the story below first. Based on the information given, what would you choose & why?

I don't see many good options for the problem with what is being discussed.

- If you place a sixth or seventh grader at Strack you can temporarily solve the problem. However if your child should decide that he or she wants to continue at Strack it becomes the parents' responsibility to make sure that their student can get to Strack after next year. For many parents this is not a viable option.

- If there are not enough students who volunteer to transfer, then it sounds like Hildebrandt will have a field of temporary buildings. This scenario is very hard on both students and teachers. For students it is too much unsupervised time passing between classes. Classes lose teaching time and getting students focused after class changes is hard. In addition the temporary buildings are noisy with both the sound of passing trains and the air conditioning in the building. It is better to have students in a junior high setting in a main building setting rather than moving from temporary building to temporary building.

The district should be thinking outside of the box so to speak. One idea that would come to mind would be to take approximately 400 students that will be going to the new intermediate school in the 2007-2008 year and move them to a temporary facility. There is enough vacant buildings along the 2920 corridor that may work for a temporary school setting. There is also enough time to do the work needed to set up a temporary facility. The number of students would limit the number of offerings available, however it could be done. The money that would be allocated for busing to Strack and for rental of temporary buildings currently being used by Hildebrandt could offset some of the cost. The idea of working in a smaller school setting and really getting to know the students and their needs would interest me as an educator. I would imagine there are other teachers who like the opportunity to teach in 400 student school rather than a +1000 student school.

Back to your original question - should I stay or should I go? If I were the parent of a sixth grader who was going to stay at Hildebrandt after the rezoning I would probably keep my child at Hildebrandt. If I know for sure that my child would be attending public school and the crowding situation is a big turn off - then as the deadline for families to make their decision nears, I would check in with administration at Hildebrandt or my local school board representative to find out if I can find out the numbers of students who are voluntarily transferring to Strack and then make my decision based upon this information.

Sorry, but I have no respect for "Moldy Joe" Nixon's flip-flop on issues such as The Grand Parkway. He tailors his response to his audience, how predictable. He's been in office a little too long, and needs to go.

As for the Montgomery County route, we have long asked for a route through Montgomery County to be considered, one that would actually take far less homes than the one proposed in the Spring area. We are constantly told by TxDOT that Montgomery County and The Woodlands area doesn't want it, but that they do support the building of it through Spring, as they want the access to Harris County.

It should make one consider.... if The Woodlands and Montgomery County won't consider placing this project in their area, what is wrong with the project. If local developers and residents in the Woodlands want to be able to access the Grand Parkway - let them have in their yards.

Unlike what Mr. Nixon told his audience a few days ago, many of us did the research before moving into our neighborhoods in Spring and would have never forseen the alignment changes coming for the Grand Parkway F-2.

(excerpt from The Leader-Houston newspaper):

Joe Nixon said he favors building the Grand Parkway to help alleviate traffic congestion. He said those residents who live near the route and oppose the project should have seen this day coming

Okay... I have been following this whole strand and I just don't get it.

We have TXDot, the Grand Parkway Association, and a group of politicians pursuing the development of the Grand Parkway.

- We know there is likely not enough funding to make this project happen if HCTRA is not involved.

- The planners of this project have not researched all the options available such as expanding the current roadways and moving the project further up north away from development.

- We can also look at maps and know that the land that currently being planned for the Grand Parkway is currently being developed or in stages of development. I am not just talking about the land around Klein Oak. The land north of FM 2920 and along Boudreaux is being developed at a rapid pace with housing, businesses, and within the next two years a school.

- There are many people along the F2 alignment who do not want the alignment to go through Spring.

Without funding, land, or public support - I just do not see how the Grand Parkway people and their supporters expect this project to work.

Furthermore, we can't continue to try to build highways to keep up with the predicted population increases. The cost of energy, the cost of land, and the cost of building these projects are eventually going to be prohibitive. We should be looking at alternatives to highways and using resources to develop these.

my sister loves rancheros. i haven't tried it yet.

btw, has nit noi opened yet? a coworker mentioned that they might be opening soon.

also, had a birthday dinner at cheesecake factory thursday night. the thai lettuce wraps (is that even a thai concept?) were delicious. it came with three sauces; peanut, ginger and a mint/cilantro. there were thinly sliced cucumbers, bean sprouts, carrots, noodles and a small amount of chicken. the options were so varied that one would have to order it again and again to utilize all the ingredients.

As of last weekend the Nit Noi in The Woodlands had not opened. I keep watching because the Nit Noi on 1960 is a nice restaurant.

Just curious... would Klein ISD be pursing the properties because the property that they have along 2920 and Boudreaux be in the pathway of the Grand Parkway?

In today's Outlook section (Sunday August 21, 2005), there is an article about Houston's problem with sprawl by Roger L. Galatas.  I'm not sure if the Outlook articles are on the Chronicle's website, so I have no link to post.  Maybe the writer's name could come up in a search online.

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The article you mention can be accessed on the Chronicle's website today. It was an interesting read.

Nope, I'm going there to support the principal of my child's school.

I'm pretty sure she has had many, many sleepless nights worrying about the ramifications of the mold reports at the school, and I want to be there as a positive force, not a negative one.

Yes, having almost 1,000 students in trailers that has a by-product also causes these children to lose their entire playground sucks big time, but it is supposed to be a temporary situation and even under these adverse conditions, can be dealt with in a positive way, if we can all work together and try to support the school's staff.

As I understand it so far, the library books won't be moved to trailers after all, but the computers will be. We will lose access to morning drop-off and afternoon pick-up by cars and the backdoor walkers will be walking quite a ways longer now. There will be no hot cafeteria food served, only sack lunches prepared at the nearby Klein Oak High School, and I'm not sure yet what the situation will be for evacuation during tornado watches/warnings when the students aren't supposed to be in trailers at all. So many questions, so many issues, or as my friend would say, "so many opportunities"...

This is clearly a situation that the staff and administration did not create and have little control over, so why vent at them? I save my anger for the Grand Parkway...

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Thanks Pineda -- we will need the support of all the community on this issue. The opportunity will be a long term one that some of the problems (flooding outside the school) and updates needed for the school will be addressed as the district fixes the mold issue. Hopefully by the Friday evening some of the logistics of the issues that you have mentioned in your post will be addressed by KISD.

I tend to do a lot of lurking in this forum. However, I feel strongly about the Grand Parkway because I am also a resident of Spring.

I feel much of the opposition behind the Grand Parkway is summed up bythe posting from Travel Guy 73 in the Real Estate/Neighborhood Lifecycle topic. Residents in Spring do not want this highway to kill their neighborhoods. No one wants this road in their backyard. Real estate values in parts of Spring are being negatively affected by their proximity to the proposed alignments of the Grand Parkway as well as the glut of new housing created as a means of redirecting the preferred alignment of the Grand Parkway.

I have driven on the portion of the Grand Parkway that goes through Cinco Ranch and it is okay for a parkway. However when I drove over the Harris County line, the Grand Parkway became a different type of highway. The roadway did not have a buffer between the highway and the lots that abutted it. The landscaping became non existent in much of the area along the road. From what I have read and heard from the public meetings, I pretty sure that the segment that will traverse through Spring will not look like the Cinco Ranch segment. It will probably look closer to a Beltway 8 or Hardy Tollroad. TXDot and HCTRA need to be upfront with the public in terms of what type of road they plan to build and who they are building the road for (is it mostly for residents of The Woodlands to assist their commute, is it solely a developer highway, is it a NAFTA route). In addition to meeting with developers, the agencies need to meet with existing neighborhoods and weigh the impact to existing developments who will be affected by the highway. When all the information is brought to the table along with updated maps perhaps an alignment that will impact fewer people can be determined.

What the drama queens didn't tell you is that if the tollway does get built within 1000' (more than 3 football fields long) of the intermediate and high school, it will be because it is being built to run in the right of way of an existing freight railroad for much of its route.  That line already carries every day a volume of hazmat cargo equal to more than 500 truckloads, and runs much closer(right next to the schools.)  The railroad existed long before any home or school was built in the area.  OBTW, there is also an elementary school right across the tracks. 

If these NIMBY's were really about safety and solutions, why haven't they been pushing to relocate those schools to a more suitable location away from the tracks, or at least get a fence built?  Far more kids are killed walking on train tracks than on tollways, which usually are now built with fencing in urban or pedestrian prone areas.  A quick glance at the map reveals that Patrick Henry intermediate has been sitting right next to the Hardy Toll Road, complete with railroad tracks and frontage roads, for years, yet no child has been hurt and the sky hasn't fallen.  Same with Post Elementary in Jersey Village, next to Beltway 8. 

You are correct. There is a railroad track that runs past the three schools and right next to some of the neighborhoods in Spring. I do not know why the owners of the railroad or Klein ISD has not put up a fence. The owners of the railroad do make a presentation to the elementary school every year about railroad safety. So far we have been extremely lucky that no one has been killed or hurt on the railroad tracks.

I am not sure if I would agree with you that since the railroad tracks are already there and they can pose a risk, it is acceptable to also put in a highway near these schools and right next to these neighborhoods. Yes highways have been built near schools. I can drive down I45 and see this. However, it would seem to me that this would be the window of time in the planning of this highway to see if there would be another alternative than doing this.

And why would the toll road be proposed down a railroad ROW?  To avoid taking homes and bundle it with an existing nuisance, so that fewer persons and property are adversely affected.  Exactly what NIMBY A just claimed they didn't do.  In fact a lot of those 'alarming' claims appear to be bogus.

Just another red herring thrown out to try and emotionalize the debate.  As is the old "the road isn't needed, it is just to benefit developers."  What a load of nonsense, there is plenty of suburb-suburb traffic up there, as any regular driver of 1960 can tell you.  Those developers are putting in homes, which are in demand, else they couldn't sell them.  So there are a hell of a lot of future homeowners, commuters, and other travellers who will benefit from it.

I believe there is some demand for housing in Spring, however much of it currently has been inflated. Much of the land that was to be allotted for the preferred route of the Grand Parkway has been sold to developers. I have seen much of the land cleared. I am seeing houses being built quickly in these neighborhoods. I am not seeing everything that is built being sold. It will eventually be sold, however supply is ahead of demand right now.

I have seen an increase of local traffic. I am not sure however, how many local people are willing to pay a toll to drive from Kuykendal to either I-45 or S.H. 249 (or even Katy) when no pay options are available. If the locals are not using this highway, will it become a road for truck traffic to circumvent downtown Houston?

A few will lose their homes, and that is unfortunate, but improvements have costs.  Many like to say how great Paris is, and how we should be more like the Europeans, but how many homes were taken when the city was redeveloped and the broad avenues put in?  Not to mention how many homes were taken just to build I-45.  If someone lives in Spring and have ever driven I-45 to downtown Houston or even the airport, they've driven on a road that exists because many persons had their homes taken against their will.  So if someone from Spring then wants to pull out their high holy guilt trip card, it sounds rather hypocritical.  I've got mine, now pull up the drawbridge.

If it has happened in the past, does it make it right to do it now? Again, this is the time to look and see if there are some alternatives that would stop this from happening.

Anyway, here is an aerial photo of the proposed routes (from the apparently very secret Grand Parkway website, which coulda gotten away with it, too, if not for those meddling kids.  And Google.)  The schools complex is the white cluster of buildings in the top left corner, just beneath the Texas symbol.  According to my Key Map that is the high school closest to the proposed route (the buildings fronting the S-curved street), with the elementary across the tracks to the north (closer to the Texas symbol) and the intermediate further to the west(perhaps even off the picture.)  Thus the elementary and intermediate would be at least a 1/2 mile walk from the proposed tollroad.

Many Spring residents are aware of the proposed routes of the Grand Parkway and access to the maps on the websites for information about the Grand Parkway. What we do not know, however is the exact routing that the powers to be will end up choosing. I can access several different websites and see different routes being shown. Since we have bought our house, an alignment has been added and others that are shown on maps have more or less been discarded. We have read that there are variations of posted alignments being discussed. Although information is on the internet, what the powers to be for this project will choose has not been made public to us.

http://www.grandpky.com/downloads/alignments/segf2_2.pdf

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Yes, good post, Voice.

I could see the uproar if GP was next to an elementary school or these intermediate schools and maybe junior high/middle schools.  That should not happen.  I could even see if GP was gonna be as close to Klein Oak as 290 is to Cy-Fair, but 1000 feet is a pretty decent buffer.

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Okay... based upon what you are saying, you believe that the Grand Parkway should not be located next to intermediate schools, however high schools are okay. Klein Oak is about 1000 feet from Hildebrandt Intermediate. At dismissal time it is common to see intermediate school students walking around the area to get home. Is it okay to have the Grand Parkway in this much proximity to either school. I don't think so, it is an accident waiting to happen.

As a resident of Spring who will be impacted by this project, I tend to get tired of people (workers for TX Dot, members of this forum, politicians) telling me that this project is beneficial. There are certain flags that I see that would indicate that this project will not favor anyone in Spring or in other areas except maybe developers whose properties are near, yet not in the path of the chosen alignment of the Grand Parkway.

The first indicator I see is that no one entity is claiming responsibility for the project. TX Dot is doing an environmental study. HCTRA is doing another study. Grand Parkway Association is involved with the studies done. This seems like a lot fingers in one pie. What happened to accountability?

Another indicator is that The Woodlands supports the project, yet is not interested in having the project developed in their area. If this project is so beneficial why is The Woodlands unwilling to use their land up in the Northern part of The Woodlands to build the Grand Parkway? It is definitely a case of NIMBY.

Another indicator that this project is going to be a big problem is that people such as Senator Lindsey and Jerry Eversole, and entities such as HCTRA and TX Dot are unwilling to meet with the public and share information. If HCTRA should choose to take over the project they are not subjected to the same environmental regulations that TX Dot would be. The developers of this highway are purposely being ambiguous. Can this be because they know that the public is not going to like what they have to offer with this project?

There is no indication of what type of highway or level traffic will be on it. At one point it was discussed as I-69. Grand Parkway documents say it is going to be a rural 4 lane highway. Will it expand to more lanes? If so, when is this planned? Will it look like Beltway 8 or I45? Is it geared for 18 wheeler trucks or car traffic? Will the road look like The Grand Parkway in Cinco Ranch area? Will it look the ugly portion of the Grand Parkway just over I-10? The lack of information given to the public and concerned groups is appalling.

This project is slated to go either through the middle of neighborhoods or right next to existing subdivisions. There has been little attempt to try to circumvent neighborhoods or schools. Already the knowledge that the Grand Parkway will be built in my area has negatively impacted property values and made it harder to sell real estate.

This is a project that will be rammed down our throats whether we want it or not. It is looking more like a case of seeing how fast and inexpensively TX Dot, HCTRA, and the Grand Parkway Association can throw up a highway that will benefit developers and perhaps businesses such as Katy Mills. If the project was supposed to have integrity, the planners of this highway would have looked at the factors discussed in my post as well as other post and sought ways to address the issues involved. The governing of this project would be more transparent, and the public who is truly impacted by this project would have a voice in it that would be truly heard.

Pineda - I have looked at the map on the United to Save our Spring again and believe I was reading property lines for roads. Is there another map out there that show how this particular alignment will continue going eastward? Were the maps shown at the meeting today updated or the same old material used for public hearing for F-2?

Let's see... if I look at the map posted on the United to Save Our Spring website. The proposed route for Segment f-2 of the Grand Parkway would go through Hildebrandt Intermediate and possibly Klein Oak High School. It would be in front of Northampton Elementary School then continue through the middle of Northampton subdivision. Am I reading this map correctly. If so, is there anyone at the Commissioner's Court thinking clearly?

You know, just wondering here; how many of you who have responded over time to the Grand Parkway problem are 1. at least 30, 2. own a home in northwest Harris County, 3. have children in the Klein ISD (extra points if you actually know where Hildebrandt and Klein Oak are!). I'm guessing at least ONE of you...

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I fit all of the above. I am opposed to the development of the Grand Parkway as it stands now. It WILL negatively impact the quality of life for residents of Spring. I applaud Debbie Riddle in the stands that she has taken concerning this project. I continue to be confused about the other politicians who support the developers and ignore their constituents who live in established neighborhoods who would be impacted by the Grand Parkway. I guess they are listening to money -- not people.

When I posed my question a few post ago I was curious to see what would cause someone to continue to support the development of the Grand Parkway (especially the current F-2 alignments) with all the information that is available on the web as to the impact it would would have on current Spring residents in the path of the alignments, as well as areas along other segments of the Grand Parkway.

Okay... I'll take the chance on this last comment... Why do you think that the Grand Parkway is a good idea?

I am in full agreement that something has to be done with FM 1960. Not only is congested, it is also an eyesore in many of the areas and has had trouble retaining businesses.

Around much of the area along FM1960 between SH 249 and I-45 is built up and perhaps needs to be handled more like an urban area. I am not sure how well a freeway from S.H. 249 to I45 would be received. There may be too many well established neighborhoods in that area who would not appreciate being located right next to a freeway (even with sound walls already in place). However, light rail in that area would be a great idea. It could eliminate bus traffic as well as some car traffic along F.M. 1960. If sidewalks and pedestrian overpasses were added it would make the area shopper and business friendly. Another nice touch would be to do some more landscaping along the road and bring back more trees and eliminate many of the billboards. In addition, if TXDot were to add commuter train lines along I-45 and S.H. 249 and connect them to a light rail system along FM 1960 it could be real attractive to homebuyers who are looking for the ease of being able to commute into downtown Houston for business or ammenities that are available in city. From what I have read this seems to have worked in Dallas, it should be able to work in Houston.