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houstonmacbro

God, gays, genetics, and airlines

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Since 'The Editor' and several others have wanted the previous discussion to stay on topic, I created this topic so we could continue the discussion (off-topic).

I don't really care if it gets off-topic and evolves into another discussion or threads --but maybe 'The Editor' will again.

Go for it!

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I will take your subject matters one at a time.

God: I beleive in HIM. Gays: they do not bother me in the least bit, I am too fat and too ugly, and if a guy was to hit on me at a bar, he would have to be extremely drunk, and do it on a bet. Genetics: could be possible to be BORN either way, I actually believe people are born with a predisposition to be Hetero or Homo, because there is no way possible that you could CHOOSE a dude's hairy @r$e, over a perfectly groomed and maintained female anatomy. Airlines: I don't fly much anymore and JetBlue is a perfect example why.

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I will take your subject matters one at a time.

God: I beleive in HIM. Gays: they do not bother me in the least bit, I am too fat and too ugly, and if a guy was to hit on me at a bar, he would have to be extremely drunk, and do it on a bet. Genetics: could be possible to be BORN either way, I actually believe people are born with a predisposition to be Hetero or Homo, because there is no way possible that you could CHOOSE a dude's hairy @r$e, over a perfectly groomed and maintained female anatomy. Airlines: I don't fly much anymore and JetBlue is a perfect example why.

Couldn't have stated it better, especially the hairy butt part. :blush:

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Couldn't have stated it better, especially the hairy butt part. :blush:

God, I believe there is one, but i am open to how he she really is compare to how others make him/her/it to be.

Gays, if I see a bunch of them somewhere, I know that the somewhere must be happening place.

Genetics or not, I like having them around.

And genetics or not, I don't like busybodies who interfere with how gays or others live their lives, especially if it doesn't hurt anyone.

Airlines, I don't know what happened with tjones and jetblue, but jetblue is the reason I like flying. Jetblue can easily rival the business class of some airlines. And it doesn't cost a fortune.

What happened anyway, TJ?

Edited by webdude

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Airlines, I don't know what happened with tjones and jetblue, but jetblue is the reason I like flying. Jetblue can easily rival the business class of some airlines. And it doesn't cost a fortune.

What happened anyway, TJ?

I guess you haven't watched the news in the past few days ? Nothing personally with JetBlue, I am just saying.

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GOD: Believe in him, but I do not think in a limited perpesctive of what "prophets" believe is absolute.

Gays: Pretty much what TJones said. Really don't care plus I am also not sure if it is nature or nurture but you cannot choose or control what naturally arouses you.

Airliner: Go Continental.

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Gays: Pretty much what TJones said. Really don't care plus I am also not sure if it is nature or nurture but you cannot choose or control what naturally arouses you.

What about pedophiles who are aroused by young girls and boys? Should we just let them have sex with our kids, or have magazines devoted to it and call it simply a "fetish", because they cannot choose or control what naturally arouses them?

I am a Christian by choice. I am a protestant, a Presbyterian. The Bible is the absolute Word of God in my eyes. If it isn't for you, that is something you have to deal with in the end, because you will have to stand before God and account for yourself, regardless of whether you are "saved". I hate the sin, and not the sinner, in fact I try not to hate anyone. God does tell Christians to share the Bible with others. Unfortunately, the world is chock full of people who think they know how to share that knowledge and fail miserably. Equally unfortunate is that these false prophets seem to get a lot of airtime.

I am not some ignorant hick "cult" member. If that were true, then some 80% + of the United States belongs to a cult. I came back to Christianity after realizing ONE church, its members and its activities do not define God. None are perfect, but my husband and I knew we had to find one whose doctrinal statement best reflected true scripture. I am blessed that I have a very knowledgeable husband who has been open enough to teach me what he knows. I believe it was divine intervention that we met, because I was clearly on the wrong path when we did.

I have lived a very colorful life. I had some seriously bad judgment in my past. I am an intelligent person with a reasonable amount of common sense. I definitely believe in God and I definitely believe Jesus Christ was his son and came here to die for our sins. If you don't, that's fine, but at the very least, listen to what reasonable people have to say about him and then decide for yourself, that's what I did.

It doesn't make me perfect, it doesn't make me better, it doesn't make me anything other than a person who is trying to live and provide a better life for myself and for my family.

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I definitely believe in God and I definitely believe Jesus Christ was his son and came here to die for our sins. If you don't, that's fine, but at the very least, listen to what reasonable people have to say about him and then decide for yourself, that's what I did.

Uhhh that's exactly what I do if that was directed at me. Sorry but I was raised to question EVERYTHING and honestly it builds my faith to be stronger, and puhlease, that first sentence is brought up all the time and I personally think it is an extreme example.

As a Christain I study more of the teachings of Jesus Christ because I feel his teachings are not based in human nature and come from some higher power and they truly make you think. That said I do not think in a limited perpesctive on all things in the bible especially when you look at history on how Christainity was used for oppression of people based on characteristics they have zero control over.

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I have no idea what relevancy your first paragraph has with the quote you provided, or why you feel it is directed at you in particular. It is more of a general statement. I apologize if you feel I was directing that at you alone.

That's great that you question things. You should. I did and still do; however, I have resolved any questions I ever had about Christianity, so the only questioning I have on that topic is with the people who follow it, not Christianity itself.

Oh and btw, Continental rocks :D

Edited by Parrothead

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What about pedophiles who are aroused by young girls and boys? Should we just let them have sex with our kids, or have magazines devoted to it and call it simply a "fetish", because they cannot choose or control what naturally arouses them?

I usually don't get involved in conversations of this sort, because they don't change anyone's minds, and typically just raise everyone's blood pressure.

But I find it utterly astounding how often, once the topic of homosexuality comes up, discussion of paedophelia isn't too far away. It just floors me. To compare what two consenting adults do in their own home with the horrendous, life-destroying act of child molestation is beyond me. And I most often hear this argument from the religious right (which is usually neither).

Let's get a new strawman, ok guys and gals? This one has become tired and cumbersome.

Edited by Orikal

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I wasn't trying to compare homosexuals to pedophiles. Man, I just freaking knew someone out there would say that. Dang.

WesternGulf said the following:

Really don't care plus I am also not sure if it is nature or nurture but you cannot choose or control what naturally arouses you.

So I wanted to see if the same applied to, just as you said, a "horrendous, life-destroying act".

Perhaps I should have chosen something else that some people get aroused by--animals? Or how about poop?

Jeez.

BTW, if this has become so "tired and cumbersome", why did you feel it necessary to pop in with your two cents? ;)

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I usually don't get involved in conversations of this sort, because they don't change anyone's minds, and typically just raise everyone's blood pressure.

But I find it utterly astounding how often, once the topic of homosexuality comes up, discussion of paedophelia isn't too far away. It just floors me. To compare what two consenting adults do in their own home with the horrendous, life-destroying act of child molestation is beyond me. And I most often hear this argument from the religious right (which is usually neither).

Let's get a new strawman, ok guys and gals? This one has become tired and cumbersome.

It's not about comparing gays to child molesters. I think everyone on the sinister "religious right" knows that isn't the case. And your tired and cumbersome objection to that "strawman" is simply an indignant way to avoid what it IS about:

It's about asking why one argument (inability to control one's arousal) can be used justify one action (homosexuality) but not another (pedophilia). It's pointing out a LOGICAL weakness in such an argument and telling you to get a new one if you feel some need to justify yourself. (which I don't think you should)

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I and my family believe in G-D and the world is a much better place because of it. If i didnt believe i could very easily be a horrible human. With the knowlege and know how thats in my head...man-o-man.

Continental is the best out of the domestic airlines.

I dont give a rats ass about homosexuality. I have stated my position on that topic many times.

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I don't know, it just seems like the same feelings are acceptable for one sex but bring in another sex and all of a sudden it is taboo or a mental disorder.

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It's not about comparing gays to child molesters. I think everyone on the sinister "religious right" knows that isn't the case. And your tired and cumbersome objection to that "strawman" is simply an indignant way to avoid what it IS about:

It's about asking why one argument (inability to control one's arousal) can be used justify one action (homosexuality) but not another (pedophilia). It's pointing out a LOGICAL weakness in such an argument and telling you to get a new one if you feel some need to justify yourself. (which I don't think you should)

Of course its not, but he already mentioned that those two acts are always brought up, which is ironical because they also serve as a strawman, and which you fail to point out.

There are lots of ways to point out that logical weakness, for example, instead of bringing up pedophilia assholes, we can also bring up busybody assholes who feel the need or arousal to interfere with other consenting adults' lives. And I hope too you don't think I am talking about you, there is no need to justify yourself on this.(which I don't think you should)

And isn't what you post also an that indignant way to avoid his point, that is some folks are always bringing up pedophiles and bestiality in homosexuality arguments ( without the intention of connecting them, obviously) even though there are other ways to argue about it. Why are these three topics always together in their minds, even though they are not really connected?

Edited by webdude

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I wasn't trying to compare homosexuals to pedophiles. Man, I just freaking knew someone out there would say that. Dang.

Then why did you compare them as one-in-the-same, in regards to sexual arousals?

WesternGulf said the following:

So I wanted to see if the same applied to, just as you said, a "horrendous, life-destroying act".

Perhaps I should have chosen something else that some people get aroused by--animals? Or how about poop?

Jeez.

I agree; you probably should have.

BTW, if this has become so "tired and cumbersome", why did you feel it necessary to pop in with your two cents? ;)

Because, though I get tired of the comparison, I never get tired of pointing out the vast differences between the two.

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Okay, so then, based on Orikal's post here, let's talk about how some people are aroused uncontrollably by poop.

The bull that webdude spews makes me laugh, so is that, technically, arousal? Furthermore, do I have any control over it?

Uh-oh, where's the Truck Stop Waitress Language Police? I said a bad word. And with an asterisk! *gasp*

Edited by danax

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Of course its not. but he already mentioned the topic is always not far behind, which is ironical because it also serves as a strawman, which you fail to point out.

There are lots of ways to point out that logical weakness, for example, instead of bringing up pedophilia assholes, we can also bring up busybody assholes who feel the need or arousal to interfere with other consenting adults' lives. And I hope too you don't think I am talking about you, there is no need to justify yourself on this.(which I don't think you should)

Well iterated. Couldn't have said it better myself.

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Okay, so then, based on Orikal's post here, let's talk about how some people are aroused uncontrollably by poop.

The bullsh * t that webdude spews makes me laugh, so is that, technically, arousal? Furthermore, do I have any control over it?

Uh-oh, where's the Truck Stop Waitress Language Police? I said a bad word. And with an asterisk! *gasp*

If you want to talk about feces, then I'll kindly bow out. <_<

My point, as webdude conferred, was that the discussion of homesexuality quickly brings the parallel of it and child molestation. My subsequent point was that one is an act of love shared between two consenting individuals, and the other is a terrible, vile act. My final note (not speaking about you, in particular), was that, if one considers homosexuality a deviant sexual act, why immediately compare it to child molestation, which is essentially the worst sexual act that can be committed? As you yourself admitted, there are many other parallels that can be drawn, without immediately comparing two subjects with only the thinnest of strings connecting them.

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I wasn't trying to compare homosexuals to pedophiles. Man, I just freaking knew someone out there would say that.

And yet you said it anyway. What a surprise.

"God": Which god are we talking about or can it just be any old god? How about the god parrot prays to out of one side of her mouth while advocating the death of millions of innocent N. Korean men, women and children out of the other side of her mouth. Man, and people ask me why I don't hook up with her gang of thugs.

"Genetics": note to self-never go to a cultist for advice on genetics.

"Gays": Well, I'm one and fully expect the parrots and CDebs of the world to continue to compare me with pedophilia and then turn around and deny that was their intention. It's just another price of being a second class citizen while they cling to their special rights.

"Airlines": I love Air France and Continental

Now I'm off to sit with a dying young man who has AIDS at Omega House [602 Branard; 713-523-7110].

Feel free to donate time, supplies and/or money if your "Christian"-or otherwise-heart desires.

P.S. Thanks to my macbro for opening up a new topic that at least allows one to offer up opinions and places to donate time and money before the "editor" shuts you down.

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we can also bring up busybody assholes who feel the need or arousal to interfere with other consenting adults' lives.

Speaking of interfering with the lives of "consenting adults," what are your thoughts of those who tell other "consenting adults" what they MUST believe about someone else's behavior?

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Okay, so then, based on Orikal's post here, let's talk about how some people are aroused uncontrollably by poop.

The bullsh * t that webdude spews makes me laugh, so is that, technically, arousal? Furthermore, do I have any control over it?

Uh-oh, where's the Truck Stop Waitress Language Police? I said a bad word. And with an asterisk! *gasp*

Well, many people do have a need to control how others live and many do indeed get aroused with power over other people, some even get aroused just thinking about it. And some get all sorts of satisfaction just rummaging though the privacy of others.

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And yet you said it anyway. What a surprise.

"God": Which god are we talking about or can it just be any old god? How about the god parrot prays to out of one side of her mouth while advocating the death of millions of innocent N. Korean men, women and children out of the other side of her mouth. Man, and people ask me why I don't hook up with her gang of thugs.

"Genetics": note to self-never go to a cultist for advice on genetics.

"Gays": Well, I'm one and fully expect the parrots and CDebs of the world to continue to compare me with pedophilia and then turn around and deny that was their intention. It's just another price of being a second class citizen while they cling to their special rights.

"Airlines": I love Air France and Continental

Now I'm off to sit with a dying young man who has AIDS at Omega House [602 Branard; 713-523-7110].

Feel free to donate time, supplies and/or money if your "Christian"-or otherwise-heart desires.

P.S. Thanks to my macbro for opening up a new topic that at least allows one to offer up opinions and places to donate time and money before the "editor" shuts you down.

For all you gay people, if this is your spokesperson here, you are doomed.

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"Gays": Well, I'm one and fully expect the parrots and CDebs of the world to continue to compare me with pedophilia and then turn around and deny that was their intention. It's just another price of being a second class citizen while they cling to their special rights.

I'm sorry if sound logic offends you. The funny thing is that you're INSISTING on what my intentions are even though you have no clue. Of course, that's probably what you want to read in my post because it gives you the victim badge that you proudly wear with your own post. You have the unmitigated gall to tell me that your reading what you want to read turns you into a "second class citizen" while you call half the country members of the "Taliban" and over two billion people members of "cults." Your hypocrisy is quite astounding.

You aren't the victim of any sinister plot by people such as me who could give a rats ass where you stick your privates. You're the victim of your own reading what you want to read and your inability to refrain from demonizing those who don't agree with you. While you're sitting there contemplating the humanity of a dying man, why don't you take a few seconds to contemplate the humanity of those you seem to consider yourself so superior to. You might find that you yourself are denying others that which you desire.

Edited by CDeb

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Speaking of interfering with the lives of "consenting adults," what are your thoughts of those who tell other "consenting adults" what they MUST believe about someone else's behavior?

America is intolerant of intolerance.

You did a little fallacious thing there, sneaking in the 'believe', its a problem when the belief crosses the line into interference. Of course, lots of people think have different idea of what interference is. Some assume not doing anything, others assume throwing rocks, I assume balloting against. I also assume the systematic spreading of intolerance propaganda at various institutions against an entire group of people as interference.

Why do I myself interfere with the right of a bigot to be a bigout? Aren't bigots also consenting adults? But there is a difference, One is fighting to keep others down, while the other wants to be equal.

America is intolerant of intolerance.

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I understand the point you were trying to make. I don't think you understood mine. Let's call it a truce. :)

I do understand the point you were trying to make, in a round-about way.

A truce it is. :)

Edited by Orikal

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you cannot choose or control what naturally arouses you.

You can't "control" what naturally arouses you? Certainly you jest. If this is correct, (and it's not) we should just let the pedophiles and those into beastiality do as they please. After all, it's only natural.

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you cannot choose or control what naturally arouses you.

You can't "control" what naturally arouses you? Certainly you jest. If this is correct, (and it's not) we should just let the fundies, control freaks and those into interfering with how others live do as they please. After all, it's only natural.

Edited by webdude

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My subsequent point was that one is an act of love shared between two consenting individuals, and the other is a terrible, vile act.

i'm not sure you can say that sex (gay or straight) and love are always connected.

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Why did I even post in here? I'll try to refrain from these topics for now on and live and love EVERYBODY regardless of sexual orientation, race, sex, or dispute with them if they have the "right" religion or if they have the right flag waving outside of their home. I don't want to speak for GOD, but I am sure he knows this world would be a better place if we do just that and practice something called human tolerance.

Edited by WesternGulf

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I usually don't get involved in conversations of this sort, because they don't change anyone's minds, and typically just raise everyone's blood pressure.

Getting away from the whole paedophile discussion on here...

I agree with you Orikal...these topics do get the blood pressure up, yet its great that you get involved. I think the more people might hear a different point of view...maybe they will understand each other a little more. After all, we all live on this earth together and I am sure, we all wish to make it a better place to live.

To the forum- I'm not a great debater...not the most educated person...certainly not the most eloquent of speakers (or writers in this case), but I do want to give my input.

I hear of people saying that they don't believe in judging, yet, when I read some of these posts, there is judgement all over.

One thing I have learned in my young 37 years is that the world is made up of all kinds of people and thats ok. And every one of these people are entitled to their own opinion. But why do many people believe that only certain people deserve human rights and others should have limited rights? Isn't that a form of judging? Didn't God or whomever you believe in create us as equals? I believe so..and I would think he or she would want that to be carried on.

I am a gay guy...has a good job, treats people well, has lived a good life so far, has a loving family, a great partner, has a bunch of pets that love me...except one of our birds, but she's a little ____...whatever...my point is..I am human as is each one on here...don't you think we all deserve to be treated the same. You can disagree with what I do behind closed doors all you want..that is your right...but is it the rightwings right to take away something that GOD had intended for me to have when I was created?

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You can disagree with what I do behind closed doors all you want..that is your right...but is it the rightwings right to take away something that GOD had intended for me to have when I was created?

which rightwings are you referring to?

Edited by musicman

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You have the unmitigated gall to tell me that your reading what you want to read turns you into a "second class citizen" while you call half the country members of the "Taliban" and over two billion people members of "cults."

I have the unmitigated gall to tell you as a gay man that I am indeed a second-class citizen until I am afforded the same rights as straight folks.

In any case,"your reading what you want to read" statement seems to have come from somewhere other than this thread.

BTW, there are probably more than 2 billion that believe in one cult or another-most of them just don't happen to be Christian.

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In any case,"your reading what you want to read" statement seems to have come from somewhere other than this thread.

If you didn't accuse me of comparing your sexual orientation to pedophilia, then yes, you're right.

BTW, there are probably more than 2 billion that believe in one cult or another-most of them just don't happen to be Christian.

Aaaaaand? How many of those cults have a billion adherants? Again, your statement makes little sense.

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I hate to break it to anyone in here who seems to feel "judged" or "offended", but you're in the forum titled "Religion". Therefore, people are going to talk about their beliefs according to their religion (or as the case may be, lack of). If you don't want to hear people discuss scripture that plainly contradicts the way you live your life, or are offended by such topics, then this may not be the forum for you.

Just a thought.

Edited by Parrothead

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And yet you said it anyway. What a surprise.

"God": Which god are we talking about or can it just be any old god? How about the god parrot prays to out of one side of her mouth while advocating the death of millions of innocent N. Korean men, women and children out of the other side of her mouth. Man, and people ask me why I don't hook up with her gang of thugs.

"Genetics": note to self-never go to a cultist for advice on genetics.

"Gays": Well, I'm one and fully expect the parrots and CDebs of the world to continue to compare me with pedophilia and then turn around and deny that was their intention. It's just another price of being a second class citizen while they cling to their special rights.

"Airlines": I love Air France and Continental

Now I'm off to sit with a dying young man who has AIDS at Omega House [602 Branard; 713-523-7110].

Feel free to donate time, supplies and/or money if your "Christian"-or otherwise-heart desires.

P.S. Thanks to my macbro for opening up a new topic that at least allows one to offer up opinions and places to donate time and money before the "editor" shuts you down.

Beautiful post as always nmainguy. Except I spit on your Air France! >:) BA & Continental all the way!!!

Except I would be hypocritical to say how nice of a post this is, because I don't donate time or money or anything. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions.... See ya there parrothead.

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Aaaaaand? How many of those cults have a billion adherants? Again, your statement makes little sense.

Muslim: an est. 1.8 billion

Hindu: an est 1.25 billion

Christians: an est. 2 billion

Beautiful post as always nmainguy. Except I spit on your Air France! >:) BA & Continental all the way!!!

Except I would be hypocritical to say how nice of a post this is, because I don't donate time or money or anything. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions.... See ya there parrothead.

Merci! :P

BTW, Omega always needs light bulbs, trash bags, office supplies, latex gloves, laundry soap, cookware, utensils, and ALWAYS toilet paper!

Edited by nmainguy

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Beautiful post as always nmainguy. Except I spit on your Air France! >:) BA & Continental all the way!!!

Except I would be hypocritical to say how nice of a post this is, because I don't donate time or money or anything. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions.... See ya there parrothead.

No, actually, you won't. :D But I'm sure you'll see a lot of my old friends there. Have fun!

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God: agnostic

Gays: it's not a choice; give them their equal rights.

Genetics: yay for stem cell research.

Airlines: continental and air france all the way. jetblue and NWA: two thumbs down.

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It's not about comparing gays to child molesters. I think everyone on the sinister "religious right" knows that isn't the case. And your tired and cumbersome objection to that "strawman" is simply an indignant way to avoid what it IS about:

It's about asking why one argument (inability to control one's arousal) can be used justify one action (homosexuality) but not another (pedophilia). It's pointing out a LOGICAL weakness in such an argument and telling you to get a new one if you feel some need to justify yourself. (which I don't think you should)

CDEb, the difference is that we are talking about sex between consenting adults here, not the acts perpetrated upon innocent victims by the scum of the Earth. There is a huge difference, and pedophilia should have never entered the conversation unless it was about what you believe GOD will do to such disgusting pieces of feces.

Edited by TJones

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The best airlines i have flown

Continental---very nice product and services

British Airways

Lufthansa--nice product an services

El Al---the worlds safest airline

KLM

Delta---always have a special place for good ole Delta

United

SAS

American

Alaska Airlines--very nice product

Some of the worst are

Aeroflot----have yet to have a good experience with these idiots :angry2:

US Airways---used to have a premium product, now its just garbage :angry2:

LOT---you got a long way to go

Alitalia---goes on strike every other month :angry2:

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CDEb, the difference is that we are talking about sex between consenting adults here, not the acts perpetrated upon innocent victims by the scum of the Earth. There is a huge difference, and pedophilia should have never entered the conversation unless it was about what you believe GOD will do to such disgusting pieces of feces.

I disagree wholeheartedly. CDeb is right on, IMHO. There was never any comparison between the two. It is a flaw in the original statement, though unintended, I am sure.

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I disagree wholeheartedly. CDeb is right on, IMHO. There was never any comparison between the two. It is a flaw in the original statement, though unintended, I am sure.

I am sure you did not intentionally try to group pedophiles with homosexuals, but you put it in the context that "people being unable to control who they find attractive" , and you threw the discussion in a whole new realm when the topic was intended to be for who consenting adults choose to be with. Not about what inhuman predators do with their "urges". You knocked everything off it's axis with your statement, though I agree it was unintentional.

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CDEb, the difference is that we are talking about sex between consenting adults here, not the acts perpetrated upon innocent victims by the scum of the Earth. There is a huge difference, and pedophilia should have never entered the conversation unless it was about what you believe GOD will do to such disgusting pieces of feces.

Exactly!!! They are hugely different acts, and yet, one can use the same logic to justify them, therefore, the logic is flawed. No comparison made. Only flawed logic pointed out. I'm asking homosexuals to merely use different logic because the logic that started this whole brouhaha does them no good.

That's ALL I'm saying.

I honestly don't see what's so horrible about that. It's not lot I'm calling them a cult or anything.... :rolleyes:

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