Racism in Houston.

[Double L]

Is Houston a racist city? Have you experienced racial tension in Houston? If so what happened? What do you think of racism in Houston? What's the racial tension scene like in Houston, what's going on out there? Discuss all topics concerning racism in Houston.

[musicman]

overall houston is not as racist as other big cities but it definitely exists. i have personally experienced racial tension in houston.

one incident was in seabrook about 5 to 10 yrs ago in seabrook classic cafe. i went there when the KKK was having a meeting. the waitress ended up slipping me a napkin that said "watch out they are all around you"

most of the other times it just involves older people who are still living in the 50's.

i know my mom had an incident at the barbeque inn a few yrs ago where she could tell they didn't want to serve her and a friend because of their skin color.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

one incident was in seabrook about 5 to 10 yrs ago in seabrook classic cafe. i went there when the KKK was having a meeting.

Ah now that was a clever move

[musicman]

Ah now that was a clever move

well....i had only been there for lunch. i didnt expect a KKK meeting to be going on during the dinner hr.

[ricco67]

Well, even KKK'ers need to go out and eat. They can't all stay in their trailers and caves all the time, y'know.

[TheNiche]

Is Houston a racist city? Have you experienced racial tension in Houston? If so what happened? What do you think of racism in Houston? What's the racial tension scene like in Houston, what's going on out there? Discuss all topics concerning racism in Houston.

On the one hand, Houston can be paradise for someone that is ethnically adventurous and open-minded. There are such large communities of so many different cultures that it really isn't difficult to become comfortable with multitudes of other peoples.

But that can be a double-edged sword. Anytime that there are enough people of a single ethnic group to form a 'community', it becomes easy for some within that community to become sheltered and comfortable. In so doing, they often are incapable of attaining higher educational status, improving their standards of living, or of functioning as a responsible citizen. This can lead to cliquish behavior and self-segregation, which then creates a whole mess of problems.

[houstonfella]

It is unfortunate that racism is in ANYWHERE, USA or ANYWHERE, WORLD.

Will people ever learn that it isn't the color of your skin, the shape of your face or whether you are hetero or homo or Jewish or Protestant???? We are human beings and should treat each other with respect. Gosh, I thought the KKK was almost totally dead and gone. Guess you proved me wrong, Musicman. Bummer! Don't even let it worry you. (The barbeque inn does look kind of 50's ish and I don't go there.) I am a white anglo saxon protestant and so not racist. I don't have time, because my black, asian, gay friends would slap me silly.

Edited February 13, 2007 by houstonfella

[Pumapayam]

Why is this in other Houston (I thought it was reserved to discuss other neighborhoods not given a proper forum), should this be in Way off topic instead?

[Vertigo58]

Why is this in other Houston (I thought it was reserved to discuss other neighborhoods not given a proper forum), should this be in Way off topic instead?

Correct Puma,

I can only state that with my own personal experiences I found the WEST COAST to be more brotherly than Texas. Hands down! The south may never rid itself of that perception. People are constantly tossing salt on old wounds and rehatching bad incidents from the past in film or whatever. Civil right's activist's constantly fuel hatred to the younger set so they become "tainted" and learn to hate & show disrespect for authority, so you see it may never go away.

We can only blame ourselves instead of each other.

This forum is a good example, I am fairly new and see so much petty bickering & ego clashes its unreal. People constantly take words "out of context" and make the originator appear as vivious. Then there are the personal 1 on 1 attacks. Too much.

Like Rodney King said as LA burned all around him "Why can't we all just get along?"

[musicman]

Correct Puma,

I can only state that with my own personal experiences I found the WEST COAST to be more brotherly than Texas. Hands down! The south may never rid itself of that perception. People are constantly tossing salt on old wounds and rehatching bad incidents from the past in film or whatever. Civil right's activist's constantly fuel hatred to the younger set so they become "tainted" and learn to hate & show disrespect for authority, so you see it may never go away.

We can only blame ourselves instead of each other.

This forum is a good example, I am fairly new and see so much petty bickering & ego clashes its unreal. People constantly take words "out of context" and make the originator appear as vivious. Then there are the personal 1 on 1 attacks. Too much.

Like Rodney King said as LA burned all around him "Why can't we all just get along?"

i don't think you can really compare the west coast and texas or really any widespread area when it comes to racism. i think for a large city, houston has relatively few problems with racism. yes there are exceptions because things have happened to me, but i've never felt uncomfortable here. now head east to some smaller and you'll find more racism. i will add that i am surprised that some larger cities are still so divided. i know the last time i went to st louis, there was definitely a tension there. atlanta in the 90's i also felt a sense of tension. i attended a wedding and i asked the bride about it and she said well the city is black and white. i think racism is definitely alive and well particularly in the smaller towns.

[TJones]

Musicman, have you experienced any racial tension or KKK meetings in the past 5 to 10 months. You always bring up the "Kemah Story". It is an excellent story mind you. Double L wants us to live in the here and now. I don't think there is any type of racial tension here in Houston, at least not between Whites and Blacks. If anything I would say the Blacks and Whites have teamed up against Brown and Yellow folks if there is ANY racial tension AT ALL. I don't even think that is the case though.

In my line of work, I cannot afford to be a racist, I deal with every and I do mean EVERY type of race, creed, color, gender, sexual preference, what have you. I am only upset at the color GREEN, and the lack of it in my bank accounts.

[krix]

Let me first say I am not from here, so I've mainly been observing. I am in grad school here, and from observing the undergrad population I have to say, (mental) segregation seems to be alive. To a lesser degree with the 20% Asians, but much more so with the African American students (this is mainly based on my observation over the years who gets on the shuttle and who talks to who, this of course is not a very thorough method).

Also, I know a Caucasian professor who was dating an African American once (until around one year ago), and it has happened to her many times that after reserving a table they would be denied one upon entering the restaurant, in one case she even knew the owner personally who pretended not to know her... to be fair the professor's from the North, and she says it's not much better there...

But that said, I don't think it's so much about comparing Houston to other places, but about asking oneself what can be done about it in this city. I remember a Japanese American director coming to campus telling a story how they were denied a table in the North (the first time I ever heard about this happening to Asian Americans) and a Caucasian woman in the audience was surprised that this could happen still today (upon which I pointed out that this is happening even in Houston every day). I think just raising awareness for this kind of issue might help.

[musicman]

Musicman, have you experienced any racial tension or KKK meetings in the past 5 to 10 months. You always bring up the "Kemah Story". It is an excellent story mind you. Double L wants us to live in the here and now. I don't think there is any type of racial tension here in Houston, at least not between Whites and Blacks. If anything I would say the Blacks and Whites have teamed up against Brown and Yellow folks if there is ANY racial tension AT ALL. I don't even think that is the case though.

In my line of work, I cannot afford to be a racist, I deal with every and I do mean EVERY type of race, creed, color, gender, sexual preference, what have you. I am only upset at the color GREEN, and the lack of it in my bank accounts.

no i haven't experienced any recently (i'll leave out the original ninfa's incident last saturday eve. i don't think it was racism (just an ignorant hostess) but my hispanic friend said it was) but i hear occasional stories of it still. my mom volunteers at an old folks type place and has befriended quite a few of the residents there. one lady started talking about hispanics in a slightly derogatory manner. another lady stepped in and said you know that she's hispanic? and the lady said i didn't know cause she's so light complected. i call this simply a matter of old age racism. people still have their stereotypes. to say that there is no racism is houston is just not being truthful. but to say it is rampant, isn't being truthful either.

in any line of work you can't afford to be racist.

as for being yellow? ask an asian if they find that term derogatory.

Edited March 15, 2007 by musicman

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Correct Puma,

I can only state that with my own personal experiences I found the WEST COAST to be more brotherly than Texas. Hands down!

Careful, isnt LA about to riot and burn down, again, because of all that brotherly love

Or the city of San Francisco pulling some other stunt to shut out members of the military or try and remove rights such as the right to bear arms---so much brotherly love on the west coast

Portland killed anymore college students from Ethiopia lately?

[krix]

as for being yellow? ask an asian if they find that term derogatory.

Yes very bad. But then the acceptance of the term "black" varies from person to person as well. One more thing. Is there any reason to suggest that Caucasians and African Americans have "teamed up" against Asians and Hispanics? Socioeconomic data suggest the opposite, i.e. Caucausians and Asians vs. African Americans and Hispanics (although there is some tension between the latter two). With all due respect, I think the statement that there is no tension between Caucasians and African Americans in this city is a myth. I am not saying Houston is necessarily worse than other cities in the US, but it is no racial utopia either.

[musicman]

as for being yellow? ask an asian if they find that term derogatory.

Yes very bad.

maybe that's why you're not seeing green Tjones Edited March 15, 2007 by musicman

[TJones]

as for being yellow? ask an asian if they find that term derogatory.

I find myself to be more of a pinkish peach color, but I don't get offended by the term white. Can't use olive for Aisans, maybe off-white ? You tell me what is a better color to use, but YOU instantly knew what race was referred to, so why be offended, I wasn't using it as a derogatory remark, and I think that is where the line is drawn.

[MidtownCoog]

This thread is pointless.

[musicman]

You tell me what is a better color to use, but YOU instantly knew what race was referred to, so why be offended, I wasn't using it as a derogatory remark, and I think that is where the line is drawn.

the use of that term in the manner you used it is offensive. if you were describing a crayon color then it wouldn't be derogatory to me.

[TJones]

maybe that's why you're not seeing green Tjones

Yeah, THAT must be it.......................

the use of that term in the manner you used it is offensive. if you were describing a crayon color then it wouldn't be derogatory to me.

Were you also offended by the use of the color black ? 64 colors in the big box, give me a better choice than yellow, and I will be happy to agree if I feel you are correct.

Edited March 15, 2007 by TJones

[musicman]

Yeah, THAT must be it.......................

Were you also offended by the use of the color black ? 64 colors in the big box, give me a better choice than yellow, and I will be happy to agree if I feel you are correct.

black is socially accepted by many in the race vs some of the earlier derogatory terms. unfortunately the term african american is trying to be made a standard but my close black friends find the term offensive. i have a white south african friend who enjoys going around telling people he's african. it surprises some and hopefully increases awareness in general. i think it is funny personally. i am hispanic but don't like the term mexican american. but that's me.

i don't know any asians who accept being called yellow

Edited March 15, 2007 by musicman

[TJones]

i don't know any asians who accept being called yellow

Just because you don't know any doesn't make it so. The problem is that you can NEVER make everybody happy, there will always be those that try to find racism in ANYTHING.

[musicman]

Just because you don't know any doesn't make it so.

i said i don't know any asians who liked being called yellow. yes there may be some but i don't know any. i didn't say because i don't know any there aren't any. that is completely different.

are there any asians that prefer to be called yellow? we know krix doesn't, but that is just one data point.

Edited March 15, 2007 by musicman

[Ralo]

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Edited April 11, 2007 by Ralo

[Ralo]

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Edited April 11, 2007 by Ralo

[TJones]

i said i don't know any asians who liked being called yellow. yes there may be some but i don't know any. i didn't say because i don't know any there aren't any. that is completely different.

are there any asians that prefer to be called yellow? we know krix doesn't, but that is just one data point.

Preferred to be called yellow over WHAT musicman ? What is another choice for color when referring to Asians ? You pick black for African-American, you pick Brown for Hispanic, you pick White for Caucasian, do you agree with those terms ? If so, then choose a better adjective. Or do you just say Asian because you feel their skin is translucent ? You feel they don't "prefer" yellow, so what is the color they "prefer" ?

Edited March 15, 2007 by TJones

[MidtownCoog]

But to be fair this is an issue that touches all races and reverse discrimination also exists.

Amen to that. They don't like Crackers at the Home Depot on Little York or the Wal-Mart in Galveston.

Edited March 15, 2007 by MidtownCoog

[musicman]

Preferred to be called yellow over WHAT musicman ? What is another choice for color when referring to Asians ? You pick black for African-American, you pick Brown for Hispanic, you pick White for Caucasian, do you agree with those terms ? If so, then choose a better adjective. Or do you just say Asian because you feel their skin is translucent ? You feel they don't "prefer" yellow, so what is the color they "prefer" ?

asian.

i say asian personally. my 9 yr old nephew has used that for several yrs too. he went to a montessori school and that's what they taught him there which i thought was amazing personally. i choose black over african americans because i think the term african causes a loss of identity. it reminds me of the white african who applied for a scholarship and checked african but was denied because he wasn't black. that is terrible IMO.

i don't know anyone that calls hispanics.....browns. i've heard latins, chicanos (which i hate/and is outdated), and the standard mexican, cuban, honduran, etc. one other one that is used frequently and i think incorrectly is spanish. because someone speaks spanish doesn't mean they are from spain.

i tend to use white over caucasian but have used both. i just asked my white officemate and he said he prefers white because caucasian sounds like something from a police lineup. i just saw midtown used the phrase cracker....i've never used that.

Edited March 15, 2007 by musicman

[Jeebus]

None of my Asian friends prefer being called yellow anymore than any of my Hispanic friends prefer to be called brown. None consider it derogatory when referencing multiple races as in: black, white, yellow, or brown. However, both told me that they felt it derogatory when describing a single group or person, eg: It was a group of brown guys, or I think it was a yellow girl.

As for black and white, those are just old terms that have been around for a very long time - or at least a long enough time where there's a difference between black & white and yellow & brown. I don't mind calling black people black, as I'm called commonly referred to as a white person.

I do think African-American is an exception to the rule, as no other race of people are collectively associated by continent just based on their color (i.e. - we don't say European-American for White people, South American-American or Central American-American for Hispanic or Latino people, Asian-American for Asian people, or Austrailian-American, again predominantly for White people.) The term African-American was created out of nessessity for the American Black comminity to help establish themselves as an equal race of individuals during the civil-rights movement. Since I was raised after that movement, its become integrated into my vernacular, but its rarely used.

Focus: No I do not think Houston as a city is predominantly racist. I do know for a fact though that many white communities in the suburbs and adjoining "country" towns are.

Edited March 15, 2007 by Jeebus

[MidtownCoog]

many white communities in the suburbs

Is there even such a thing anymore? I sure miss the good ole days ;-)

Did I mention the "Third Ward Ain't For Sale"?

[SpaceCity]

Your continent of origin determines your ethnicity -- not your skin color. Someone born in Africa who later became and American citizen, is an African-American. Race has nothing to do with it.

I have gotten in trouble for asking "dots or feathers" in response to listening to a story about "Indians." All in good fun. All in good fun.

[Ralo]

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Edited April 11, 2007 by Ralo

[musicman]

None of my Asian friends prefer being called yellow anymore than any of my Hispanic friends prefer to be called brown. None consider it derogatory when referencing multiple races as in: black, white, yellow, or brown. However, both told me that they felt it derogatory when describing a single group or person, eg: It was a group of brown guys, or I think it was a yellow girl.

The term African-American was created out of nessessity for the American Black comminity to help establish themselves as an equal race of individuals during the civil-rights movement. Since I was raised after that movement, its become integrated into my vernacular, but its rarely used.

i'm not sure i agree with you on the first point. i don't think i would like being called brown in either instance. i just called a hispanic friend and asked her and she laughed and said "they're crazy, they must be doing it behind our backs cause i've never heard that" LOLOL

as for african american, i would say it used more than rarely. two of my best friends from work are black. i just asked them one replied "they must be living in a shelter cause i hear it everyday" the other said "where do they live?"

[TJones]

Sorry musicman, apparently I was supposed to say "Bronze" color, when referring to people of Hispanic race.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_race

[Jeebus]

i'm not sure i agree with you on the first point. i don't think i would like being called brown in either instance. i just called a hispanic friend and asked her and she laughed and said "they're crazy, they must be doing it behind our backs cause i've never heard that" LOLOL

So your friend would be offended if someone around them said something along the lines of: "I can't care if they're black, white, brown, or yellow, the entrance fee should be equal no matter who you are..." Because that's what I was referring to in my previous post as non-derogatory.

as for african american, i would say it used more than rarely. two of my best friends from work are black. i just asked them one replied "they must be living in a shelter cause i hear it everyday" the other said "where do they live?"

What did you ask them?

[Pumapayam]

This thread is pointless.

Agreed, all I mentioned a month ago was that this was in the wrong section of the forum . . . how in the world did this even turn up active again?

Everyone just go and talk about American Idol or something . . .even Light Rail will do, where is AftonAg???

[Jeebus]

Did I mention the "Third Ward Ain't For Sale"?

You make a good point that's continually over looked: racism can come from all colors, not just white people.

Everyone just go and talk about American Idol or something . .

You go first and wait. We'll meet you there. We promise.

[Ralo]

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Edited April 11, 2007 by Ralo

[Ralo]

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Edited April 11, 2007 by Ralo

[TJones]

So your friend would be offended if someone around them said something along the lines of: "I can't care if they're black, white, brown, or yellow, the entrance fee should be equal no matter who you are..." Because that's what I was referring to in my previous post as non-derogatory.

As was I Jeebus, wasn't trying to be derog at all, but like I said, some people will try to find racism in ANYTHING.

Also, A big thank you to Ralo, for seeing the difference.

Edited March 15, 2007 by TJones

[musicman]

So your friend would be offended if someone around them said something along the lines of: "I can't care if they're black, white, brown, or yellow, the entrance fee should be equal no matter who you are..." Because that's what I was referring to in my previous post as non-derogatory.

What did you ask them?

she just laughed because it just isn't used (when she's around anyway). knowing her she would ask what a yellow was?

i asked my black friends if they thought the term african american was rarely used.

You go first and wait. We'll meet you there. We promise.

yall are killing me LOL

[Guest Marty]

If you want to hear racism in Houston just tune your police scanner to 27.185 MHZ or channel 19 on CB and you will hear White, Black's and hispanics calling each other all kinds of crazy stuff.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

. one lady started talking about hispanics in a slightly derogatory manner. another lady stepped in and said you know that she's hispanic? and the lady said i didn't know cause she's so light complected. i call this simply a matter of old age racism. people still have their stereotypes. to say that there is no racism is houston is just not being truthful. but to say it is rampant, isn't being truthful either.

The differenece here is, they are old and will be dead soon. Im more focussed on the younger folks. Thats where the changes are clear. I think we did a good job with our boys regarding race and race relations. They have friends of all types. We dont know what type of girls they will bring home to meet us as girlfriends-black-white-hispanic-indian-japanese-korean, and arabic. I think i have covered the different types of girls they have dated

Now if they can only find some nice jewish girls to settle down with and give me some healthy grandsons to spoil rotten

We covered the race thing with them from when they were young, they were brought up right. They know if i ever catch them using any type of racially offensive speech or engaging in racially offensive behavior, THAT WOULD BE AN OPEN INVITATION TO MY WRATH!! I guarantee you, they dont want that > Parents can do a lot to affect the outcome of thier children in a positive manner. As for the older folks, the banana peel is close at hand.....

[musicman]

The points Jeebus made seem logical to me. But I think we are getting caught up in semantics. We really should look at the intent and, in this thread, with respect to yellow, brown, black, or whatever - there has been no malice whatsoever.

there has been no malice on his part yes i agree. but if it offends the person you're talking to do you still say it?

[Jeebus]

there has been no malice on his part yes i agree. but if it offends the person you're talking to do you still say it?

That's just it - if you know it offends the person you're talking to, then no. If you think it could offend them, then no as well.

[Guest Marty]

Racism is a flaw in our society maybe one day our great great grandchildren will learn from what all of us went through from all sides of the race spectrum.

Edited March 16, 2007 by Marty

[Ralo]

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Edited April 11, 2007 by Ralo

[krix]

You make a good point that's continually over looked: racism can come from all colors, not just white people.

You go first and wait. We'll meet you there. We promise.

Although this is true, this is also too much of a relativist statement for me. While each and every group can have racist individuals or even group, we should also be talking here about institutionalized racism as evidenced by the government or corporations, but also including landlords, restaurants and shops in affluent areas, i.e. the institutions and places everybody aspires to move up to (aka Middle-Class American Dream). Civil rights litigation has changed a lot in the past few decades, but one can't say it's completely gone. (I remember an old Jewish lady telling me when she applied for a corporate job in NYC, they wouldn't hire her with her obviously Jewish maiden name, but when she reapplied with her her husband's Anglicized married name, they'd take her right away. This kind of thing would be much harder today.)

[musicman]

That's just it - if you know it offends the person you're talking to, then no. If you think it could offend them, then no as well.

well hopefully now everyone of us is a little smarter.

[2112]

Interesting related info: I was shocked after being in Philly last Fall (my first visit) for several days, and experienced outright anomosity for speaking Spanish in a public place - on a cell phone - outside, mind you. I was trying to order some food at a street sandwitch place, and was bluntly told to "speak American", even though I was not talking to the dude taking my order. This happend twice, in somewhat different forms, but twice. I was talking on the cell phone to my mother-in-law while waiting in line to order, when it was about to be my turn to order, and that is when the "comment" was made from the person taking the order, before I even said anything to the guy. This really isnt racism per-se, but it has innuendoes of it. Anyways, my point really is not to agree or dissagree with it, because as an American, I can speak whatever damn language I please: English, Spanish, Binary, C++, whatever. And the friendly sandwicth-order-taker can say anything he likes too, as he prooved that day. My point is that this kind of stuff is not a Houston thing. It is not a Texas thing. It it can happen in Philly, and New York, Chicago, LA...anywere. I guess I have a problem with the title of this thread, mabye. Considering how long I have lived in Texas and Houston, statistically, this kind of thing rarely happens here, at least to me. Anyways, that's my rant and I'm sticking to it.

[suddenly, 2112 gets on his Donkey, and rides away into the sunset]

[sound of galluping Donkey]