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Mobility Projects Report For The Woodlands


pineda

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  • 4 weeks later...

Have you heard that the county wants to purchase the right of way for The Woodlands Parkway all the way to 1488 (or was that 2978) just as soon as it can? I have lost the link for that article.

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We probably should have a general mobility post for this, but this post is the most recent one serving this topic, so I will use it. I found this article interesting describing the need for a more regional mobility projects by the year 2035. I describes an interesting vision by the Houston-Galveston Council Transportation Department. With an additional 3 million people expected to live in our area by 2035, our transportation system requires considerable expansion. "The 2035 RTP began in 2005 with a public outreach effort, called Envision Houston Region (EHR), a broad based public outreach initiative involving hundreds of residents, elected officials developers and others who participated in a series of visioning workshops." This will be an interesting subject for this group to discuss.

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. With an additional 3 million people expected to live in our area by 2035,

You must just mean TW area, because Houston will far exceed a 3 million person population increase by 2035, moving ahead of Chicago. Some are saying 3 million for the metro-area pretty soon. Google it.Read a few articles that claim the Houston-Galvestion area (in general TW/Montgomery County has not been included in such numbers) will exceed 14.5 million by 2035. Does seem steep, but considering the population increase just over the past three years, its not entirely impossible.

But I do agree in thinking Harris county will chew up and spit out that 3 million in less than 10 years at this rate.

Edited after looking at more studies.

Edited by KatieDidIt
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You must just mean TW area, because Houston will far exceed a 3 million person population increase by 2035. I've read the Houston area (in general TW/Montgomery County has not been included in such numbers) will exceed 15 million by 2035, some studies say 20 million.

I'd say Harris county will chew up and spit out that 3 million in less than 10 years at this rate.

YEAH RIGHT! You'd have to show me a study or something. Even during the oil boom of the early 80s, Houston didn't grow that fast. The biggest estimate I've seen is 10.5 million by 2035 and TW/Montgomery County WAS included in the study. That would put us past NY city to become the biggest city in the country...if what your saying is true.

The Woodlands...3 million people??? Excuse me....HA HA HA

Edited by wxman
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The response below is an attempt to bring another discussion into this thread and let the other post live its own life. :rolleyes:

Pineda and I were discussing the growth of the Klein area and plans for the Grand Parkway. His statement is quoted below to get this into step.

Woody-

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this part. The Klein area already has good access to 249 & 2920. I really don't believe that the ~$200 million Segment F-2 is not being built to help out anyone in the Klein area.

If you do find out where the funding is coming from for Segment F-2, please post that information here. Thanks! :)

I was referring to segment F-2 specifically. I seem to be jumping the gun here. I did not realize the segment was not yet funded. I thought it was part of the legislative funding for highways in the last session. I was remembering something else I suppose. Anyway, I travel down Boudreaux every day and have to disagree with you about easy access from Kuykendahl if that is what you meant. A 7 minute drive to 249 from Kuykendahl will be much appreciated when/if it becomes available. I know there is resistence by some local people to building this parkway. That happens in every proposal like this, but am sure there are some legitimate gripes out there. I hope the right alternative gets selected that accomodates the most stakeholders. In the end, the primary stakeholders are the regional commuters. I feel for landowners in such situations but it has to happen.

-----------------

Hmmm, I cannot access the PDF file above anymore. It had a very recent date, so I thought I had found something new. Premature release of information? ... dunno... lost it.

Edited by woody_hawkeye
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  • 2 weeks later...
I don't really think North/South traffic is a problem at all. Not now at least. What sucks is the East/West traffic. That's one reason I'm happy about the grand parkway.

Just curious, how will the Grand Parkway improve east/west traffic flow? For you, specifically?

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Just curious, how will the Grand Parkway improve east/west traffic flow? For you, specifically?

Right now it probably won't help going east, but going West it would help getting to Tomball much faster. Taking the backway on Woodlands pkwy takes about 35-40 mins and 2920 takes at least 20-25, depending on traffic.

It would just be nice to get on a freeway when going east/west, even if for only a couple miles, instead of taking Woodlands pkwy, 2920 or 1960, even if that means I have to drive a few more miles north/south to get to it. Red lights are unpleasant.

edit:

this is straying even moer off topic, but wikipedia says this about 99:

Located between George Bush Park and Katy, the highway will have the potential of becoming a major freeway for Katy residents traveling to George Bush Intercontinental Airport and other areas in north Houston.

Living only about 20-30 mins from the airport, I never realized how much it must suck for people on the other sides of town to get to Bush. It's pretty far.

Edited by lockmat
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To add on...

I really believe the hub-and-spoke freeway system works well for the most part. But when the "wheels" get much bigger out towards the burbs, the "spokes" also become very far apart. I know for sure that at least on this north side, we hurt for major "spokes" too. I'm not necessarily saying we need freeways to fulfill that need, but major roads like a 2920 w/ speed limits of at least 50/55 serving as spokes inbetween 45 and 249 could be a great benefit.

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Grand Parkway Constructors are Williams Brothers Construction and Dannenbaum Engineering

A joint venture led by a road construction company and an engineering firm has asked Harris County to enter into a public-private partnership to build and operate the 197-mile Grand Parkway as a toll road.

Commissioners Court will consider today whether it wants to study the unsolicited offer to undertake the $5.3 billion project to build an outermost ring skirting the metropolitan area.

-snip-

If the court decides to go ahead with a partnership between the county and Grand Parkway Constructors, the joint venture would need approval from the Texas Department of Transportation.

Grand Parkway Constructors' principals are Williams Brothers Construction and Dannenbaum Engineering.

Executives at both companies did not return calls Monday.

-snip-

The idea of a Grand Parkway encircling the metropolitan area outside Highway 6 has been around for decades. Critics long have contended that it is a highway sought by road builders and developers who intend to build subdivisions and strip malls in the still undeveloped areas.

Regardless of one's stance in that debate, the Legislature and TxDOT have decided the Grand Parkway will be built.

-snip-

TxDOT officials hope to have agreed on a plan for building the Grand Parkway by the end of next year, Dennis said.

First, the agency will negotiate with Harris, Fort Bend, Brazoria, Waller and Montgomery counties over potential toll rates on the road that will go through the five counties. That process should be completed by March, Dennis said.

TxDOT then will ask the Houston-Galveston Area Council to approve tentative rates and future rate hikes.

Based on that information, TxDOT will calculate the market value of the Grand Parkway

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Toll roads add to the problem of after-traffic planning and development. Funding is always an issue. But then when the traffic gets unbearable, somehow the funds just seem to be there. Maybe, just maybe the Grand Pkwy is ahead of the after-traffic development syndrome. But I can see how toll road funding could throw it back in time.

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''I was driving around the county this weekend and the traffic is horrible," Sadler said. "We need more roads in this county now."

I like how Sadler thinks that more new roads are the only solution for aleviating traffic. God forbid we should provide transit alternatives to commuting by car, or worse still, encourage people to live near to where they work!

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''I was driving around the county this weekend and the traffic is horrible," Sadler said. "We need more roads in this county now."

I like how Sadler thinks that more new roads are the only solution for aleviating traffic. God forbid we should provide transit alternatives to commuting by car, or worse still, encourage people to live near to where they work!

I'm not sure public transportation is really doable in The Woodlands. I mean, are buses gonna go pick people up at the front of their house or neigborhood?

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I'm not sure public transportation is really doable in The Woodlands. I mean, are buses gonna go pick people up at the front of their house or neigborhood?

My thinking is that pickup and dropoff are doable if we use neighborhood parks. Only to and from Town Center and/or other high density commercial areas, perhaps including Montgomery College which has a huge parking problem.

Edited by woody_hawkeye
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My thinking is that pickup and dropoff are doable if we use neighborhood parks. Only to and from Town Center and/or other high density commercial areas, perhaps including Montgomery College which has a huge parking problem.

Does each neighborhood have a park big enough to accomodate that?

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I guess it depends on expected use of the system, but when I go around to the big neighborhood parks, I see as many as 20-30 spaces just sitting there waiting to be occupied. Lots of pavement for little use. That may be different during prime park time on weekends.

Edited by woody_hawkeye
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I'm not sure public transportation is really doable in The Woodlands. I mean, are buses gonna go pick people up at the front of their house or neigborhood?

I'll admit that public transportation wouldn't work very well in The Woodlands, other than the park-and-rides already in use, but other places in Montgomery County, like Conroe, could implement a transit system. Does anyone know if there is any work or research being done for such a system? The Woodlands isn't the only source of traffic in Montgomery County.

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I'll admit that public transportation wouldn't work very well in The Woodlands, other than the park-and-rides already in use, but other places in Montgomery County, like Conroe, could implement a transit system. Does anyone know if there is any work or research being done for such a system? The Woodlands isn't the only source of traffic in Montgomery County.

Brazos Transit

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I don't quite get the pervasiveness of posts from people who used to live in TW and now live in Houston, or people who live in Houston that would never move up here. Why do they feel the need to post in TW forum about how much better they think life is outside of TW? Who are they trying to convince, and why? Is it some sort of inferiority complex? Is it some strange way of subconsciously justifying a move by trashing the old digs? I mean really, what's the point??

We moved to TW area, Imperial Oaks to be specific, from Dallas (Frisco) in 2005 and couldn't be happier with our neighborhood. I wouldn't move into Houston for anything. For me, it's worth the 40-minute commute every day. Every second of it. And believe me, a Houstonian could argue until they are blue in the face about the virtues of living in "the city" and I STILL wouldn't give it a second thought, not in a million years.

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I don't quite get the pervasiveness of posts from people who used to live in TW and now live in Houston, or people who live in Houston that would never move up here. Why do they feel the need to post in TW forum about how much better they think life is outside of TW? Who are they trying to convince, and why? Is it some sort of inferiority complex? Is it some strange way of subconsciously justifying a move by trashing the old digs? I mean really, what's the point??

We moved to TW area, Imperial Oaks to be specific, from Dallas (Frisco) in 2005 and couldn't be happier with our neighborhood. I wouldn't move into Houston for anything. For me, it's worth the 40-minute commute every day. Every second of it. And believe me, a Houstonian could argue until they are blue in the face about the virtues of living in "the city" and I STILL wouldn't give it a second thought, not in a million years.

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!!!! I live in Imperial Oaks by the way! Small world. I'm on Willow Creek Park.

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That article apparently was a temporary one. Does not exist on Thursday.

The link still works...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/woo...ws/5358492.html

The Woodlands newest Park & Ride is set to open a temporary commuter lot on Jan. 2, a response to an explosion in the number of area residents trading in their cars for buses in the last year....

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This article talks about a park-and-ride bus route to Huntsville from The Woodlands. I didn't know that many people commuted in that direction.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/woo...ws/5358492.html

A surprise to me too. Since the incoming Woodlands job commuting is growing significantly, that is probably the general area where some employees live. The stats were not given, but now I am wondering how many vans park here all day and return back to Houston in the evening.

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  • 1 month later...

Austin Stateman: many TXDOT projects being put on hold.

Soon after, with so-called "lettings" for 2008 trimmed to $3.1 billion, TxDOT officials announced huge cuts in spending on right of way and project design, as well as a freeze on the start of many road projects that were ready to go. That sudden halt to projects got legislators' attention
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  • 3 months later...

road surface noise reduction

i found this commentary on the subject. i read a japanese study on this issue as well. it seems that the maximum benefit is 2-8 db and road noise can be 40-47 db. i'm not sure how to put that in real terms. my home is about 125 feet from woodlands parkway. if i knew there would be a 20% decrease in noise, i'd be all for it. i'm not sure if a 5% decrease would be worth the expense.

do you have other information on the subject?

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road surface noise reduction

i found this commentary on the subject. i read a japanese study on this issue as well. it seems that the maximum benefit is 2-8 db and road noise can be 40-47 db. i'm not sure how to put that in real terms. my home is about 125 feet from woodlands parkway. if i knew there would be a 20% decrease in noise, i'd be all for it. i'm not sure if a 5% decrease would be worth the expense.

do you have other information on the subject?

Yeah, I have quite a bit but not enough to brag on. The DB scale is logrithmic. A 6 DB reduction is 1/2 the volume. I suspect some of the road noise can be way up there. I have a noise meter that I am preparing to use to benchmark current noise levels. I hope to get out this week to make some measurements. I will measure min and max and average. I don't think my meter measures the median, which is the best measure. That would require a much more sophisticated meter.

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I wish they'd consider a flyover at Rayford/Sawdust. The problem is it's so darn crowded in there. 45 could also use two or three more lanes...before things really get out of hand. Montgomery County is over 400,000 people now. That's a 40% jump since the 2000 census. We're to be over 1 million by 2020. I'm also for them removing the lights on Woodlands Pkwy...at least through Shadow Bend. I'm not sure how that could be done, but it sure would help out the traffic. Last but not least...COMMUTER RAIL. I'm all for it. What a great asset to The Woodlands and everybody in Montgomery County. Is that even an option? I know The Woodlands has rejected Metro service several times in the past. With that said, would Metro even consider a nothern line up this way?

Edited by wxman
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I wish they'd consider a flyover at Rayford/Sawdust. The problem is it's so darn crowded in there. 45 could also use two or three more lanes...before things really get out of hand. Montgomery County is over 400,000 people now. That's a 40% jump since the 2000 census. We're to be over 1 million by 2020. I'm also for them removing the lights on Woodlands Pkwy...at least through Shadow Bend. I'm not sure how that could be done, but it sure would help out the traffic. Last but not least...COMMUTER RAIL. I'm all for it. What a great asset to The Woodlands and everybody in Montgomery County. Is that even an option? I know The Woodlands has rejected Metro service several times in the past. With that said, would Metro even consider a nothern line up this way?

Good points! To my knowledge it has not been discussed. The cost of these ventures is very high. I do believe new thinking is required. I have requested a meeting with Ed Chance but not yet received a reply. These are the subjects I plan to explore with him. We do not want higher speed on Woodlands Pkwy. It is very clear that the reason we hired a additional policing force was for the safety of our children and residents. The traffic lights should be able to be effectively timed if law enforcement will cooperate end enforce the law FOR traffic mobility instead of making it a technical objective. Safety is the goal but it needs to be expanded to mobility, not including higher speed but the actual speed limit. That means ticketing thode who speed to the next light and hosing up the signals, causing traffic to stop. I am for traffic movement as a unit, not for each individual car being moved as fast as possible. We also live here on either side of each major vehicle conduit and do not want the noise. It is already rediculous and by putting the noise at a higher elevation only spreads it our further, affecting more homes. I also believe we can improve the traffic flow through education. There are many folks here who seem to have no what they are doing. They are calling it driving, but many do it without a brain. Driving is not a machancial skill. It is a mental skill that controls the mechanics. No cell phone, No music plugged into the ears, not an automatic process. It requires proper attention to the road. Somewhere in the past generation, this has been lost.

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you let your kids on the woodland parkway?

wow.

Yep they are teenagers. We lost way too many of them earlier - to unenforced speeding. It was super serious! It was said there were more teenagers in the local cemetary than adults. It was the number one issue in this community a few short years ago.

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woody, will you post your findings when you get the chance? it will be interesting. also, if you'd like to measure near woodlands parkway & grogan's mill...........?

What good timing. Turns out I need data now, so I took my first measurements today. I have to make the measurements on Gosling first. I will go wherever you want me to measure second. The technique has to be ironed out, but I am positioned to do a better job tomorrow. I got some noise from the wind today that interfered with the data collection. Still, I got some valuable info and a great start on the data. I will scout that section of road in the next day or so. You want Pkwy measurements or Grogan's Mill measurements? They will have different characteristics although I discovered today that the two surfaces where I measured did not change the readings hardly at all. The variances seem to be a function of tires more than anything. We shall see.

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  • 2 weeks later...
woodlands parkway overpass at grogan's mill to be more specific. i never oversleep because the noise level goes up after 6:30am.

keep us posted on your findings.

Bach - when I came back to this thread, I realized that we would return to the area mobility discussion in general, so I started a new thread that is specific to this topic. Anyone can picl up on it at any time. Since I have been working on this for several years, I know it will not stop now with our discussions. I have picked up another person near us also wanting to do some measurements. So I will carry on in the other thread. Meantime, this one is good for mobility as it has been for a long time now. I hope to be out there tomorrow.

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Bach - when I came back to this thread, I realized that we would return to the area mobility discussion in general, so I started a new thread that is specific to this topic. Anyone can picl up on it at any time. Since I have been working on this for several years, I know it will not stop now with our discussions. I have picked up another person near us also wanting to do some measurements. So I will carry on in the other thread. Meantime, this one is good for mobility as it has been for a long time now. I hope to be out there tomorrow.

What will be interesting if you turn this into a long term project with graphs, maps, and times. The thing is to be consistent in all the data you collect, particularly if you want to present this for an argument with TW at some later times.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Extension of Gosling near Flintridge and widening of Flintridge at the traffic light is now in the construction phase. Lights on Lake Woodlands will be activated any day now. Traffic is being studied on Lake Woodlands for the appropriate speed limit (40 is the expected). Woodlands Parkway was being surveyed this past week for the widening project which includes additional turn lanes as well as an additional lane going each way from Panther Creek to Kuykendahl.

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I have been working on some interesting topics lately. This topic I found particularly interesting on the traffic management system of Montgomery County, so I wrote an article on it. It came out of an interview I had with the county commissioner here, Ed Chance and a show and tell presentation by his staff. This system is crucial to mobility in south Montgomery County.

http://www.woodlandscommentary.com/2008/07...signals-in.html

Edited by woody_hawkeye
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great article. you've answered every single question that has occurred to me about the smart signals. as far as the system not working at night, i'm not so sure. i've pulled up to an intersection where my light just turned red. i was the only car at the intersection. the light immediately turned back to green as i came to a stop. this has occurred several times.

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great article. you've answered every single question that has occurred to me about the smart signals. as far as the system not working at night, i'm not so sure. i've pulled up to an intersection where my light just turned red. i was the only car at the intersection. the light immediately turned back to green as i came to a stop. this has occurred several times.

It may have been on "trigger only" mode. No one monitors these lights at night. Let's all watch and see how they act at night. I have never run across this situation before. The rectangular box has its limitations. I wish sometimes it would trigger much further out and not so close to the signal light.

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It may have been on "trigger only" mode. No one monitors these lights at night. Let's all watch and see how they act at night. I have never run across this situation before. The rectangular box has its limitations. I wish sometimes it would trigger much further out and not so close to the signal light.

When I leave the woodlands at night, I RARELY have to come to a full stop. Maybe you shouldn't speed, then again, I'm always nervous about deer jumping out in traffic.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Woodlands submitted something in the CoH Planning Commission to extend Woodlands Parkway but it was Omitted b/c it's not in the ETJ jurisdiction.

Hopefully it's coming soon. And I wonder if that includes expansion sideways as well? Seems like the stakes are a good indicator.

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The Woodlands submitted something in the CoH Planning Commission to extend Woodlands Parkway but it was Omitted b/c it's not in the ETJ jurisdiction.

Hopefully it's coming soon. And I wonder if that includes expansion sideways as well? Seems like the stakes are a good indicator.

There is definitely a plan to widen the road from the east to Kuykendahl. The road has already been surveyed and staked.

I am running a survey, if anyone is interested, on the automation of issuing citations to help move traffic and provide better safety. The survey includes both traffic light and speed violations. The survey will be open for three months. I also have a related article on the subject with pros and cons and am seeking input via comments in the blog or here. I prefer people take the survey who use the roads in The Woodlands or Montgomery County, but have placed no restrictions. I value everyone's input.

Survey WoodlandsCommentary.com

Article Using Cameras for traffic Law Enforcement

Edited by woody_hawkeye
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  • The title was changed to Mobility Projects Report For The Woodlands

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