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I hope Houston Dynamo's stadium is used to it's full potential.

If the Houston Dynamo builds it's own stadium with it's own money no one would have the right to complain about who they sell the naming rights to. But even suggesting that an ISD build them a stadium and saying that is not using tax dollars, well that is a new low and I can't believe they have the Huavos to even ask.

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But to even suggest that an ISD build them a stadium and saying that is not using tax dollars, well that is a new low and I can't believe they have the Huavos to even ask.

True Dat...

If the Houston Dynamo builds it's own stadium with it's own money no one would have the right to complain about who they sell the naming rights to.

Where exactly are they going to get the money for a good stadium at this point. They need to find a real owner first. AEG's not even commited to a long term ownership to Dynamo. They're trying to sell all their teams. Hopefully we get a rich businessperson to step up instead of a corporation like Red Bull <_<

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In terms of attracting visitors and out of town money, I can see why people in L.A. didn't get too excited -- they have a Rose Bowl *every* year, and whether it's the #1 v. #2 seed or just some Pac 10 team v. whoever it is they play, they're going to sell it out no matter what.

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Subdude is exactly right. The NFL needs LA more than LA needs the NFL. That is why the owners are having discussions about financing a stadium for an LA owner themselves. LA has done just fine without a team, and the longer it goes on the less LA cares if they ever get a team.

Now, if the rest of the US would use that approach, maybe we wouldn't be getting hosed by sports owners so much.

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Now, if the rest of the US would use that approach, maybe we wouldn't be getting hosed by sports owners so much.

That's very true, but unfortunately the only city that offers the same size market is New York. Every other city in America has to compete. It's basically a bid for a sports team, the same that it's a bid for a conference or big event. It's not like that can change overnight, when every sports town has now already spent money in some way to keep their teams, and so many have already lost teams as well.

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True. It gets down to whether you think building stadiums for privately-owned teams is the best use of public funds, compared to, say, school, libraries, and streets.

Once again, VERY ideal and understandable. But the way big cities see it, schools, libraries, and streets will never threaten to leave town. I think many of us are now asking the question as to why we want ANY sports teams in our town. Everyone has a different opinion on that, I guess.

One thing people also have to remember is that these"privately-owned" teams (in quotations because we partially finance the facilities), are businesses, and their primary purpose is to make money. They want the best deal, and the best location possible. It's not just sports that does that. Think about the proposals we sometimes make to companies that want to relocate. We don't pay as much for them to move, but we do propose, and we do offer amenities of some sort to convince them to move here as opposed to somewhere else. (the last company I can think of was Citgo when Houston and Tulsa both competed for them. Houston won, I think.)

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Once again, VERY ideal and understandable. But the way big cities see it, schools, libraries, and streets will never threaten to leave town. I think many of us are now asking the question as to why we want ANY sports teams in our town. Everyone has a different opinion on that, I guess.

One thing people also have to remember is that these"privately-owned" teams (in quotations because we partially finance the facilities), are businesses, and their primary purpose is to make money. They want the best deal, and the best location possible. It's not just sports that does that. Think about the proposals we sometimes make to companies that want to relocate. We don't pay as much for them to move, but we do propose, and we do offer amenities of some sort to convince them to move here as opposed to somewhere else. (the last company I can think of was Citgo when Houston and Tulsa both competed for them. Houston won, I think.)

You bring up a good question. I don't think anyone is suggesting that sports teams leave. However, like most of American business, pro sports has turned into an insatiable beast, wanting more money daily. When the fans and TV advertisers don't give enough, they move on to governments. At a certain point, one must say No. Luckily for the owners, Houston has already built them their palaces, so our No is too late.

An interesting argument owners make is that they need new stadiums to compete for good players. This is not quite true. TV revenue dwarfs what the teams get from ticket revenue. Plus, more revenue simply means higher salaries. If the team plays in their old stadium, players may just get paid a bit less.

As for comparing this to a relocating company, the benefit that the company offers back to the city is jobs. Those jobs spur the economy. Pro sports provide very few jobs in relation to money given to them, unless you happen to be 7'6", or can run a 4.4 second 40. Rick Perry has been criticzed for his fund for giving to corporations, yet his entire fund is $255 million for the whole state, one-fourth of what Houston spent on stadiums.

Overall, the only benefit a team provides is an occasional good feeling when it performs well. Frankly, with the greed shown by both players and owners, and the constant trading of players, even that is getting old. Sports as big business is just not as much fun. I doubt the Texans can play well enough to justify the over $200 per game that I spend on my 2 seats for tickets, parking, food and beer. Most other residents can't afford that outlay either. It is the main reason I am selling my seats.

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You bring up a good question. I don't think anyone is suggesting that sports teams leave. However, like most of American business, pro sports has turned into an insatiable beast, wanting more money daily. When the fans and TV advertisers don't give enough, they move on to governments. At a certain point, one must say No. Luckily for the owners, Houston has already built them their palaces, so our No is too late.

Our yes came when a majority of us voted for funding Minute Maid and Toyota Center. How much money did the city of Houston put in for Reliant Stadium? 'Cause, like, I heard it was all paid for by McNair and RodeoHouston. If that isn't true, then why was there never a vote for it?

Another benefit teams claim about stadiums helping the community is the fact that these stadiums spur new developments around them. Whether Toyota Center and Minute Maid Park have done that is VERY debatable...

An interesting argument owners make is that they need new stadiums to compete for good players. This is not quite true. TV revenue dwarfs what the teams get from ticket revenue. Plus, more revenue simply means higher salaries. If the team plays in their old stadium, players may just get paid a bit less.

As for comparing this to a relocating company, the benefit that the company offers back to the city is jobs. Those jobs spur the economy. Pro sports provide very few jobs in relation to money given to them, unless you happen to be 7'6", or can run a 4.4 second 40. Rick Perry has been criticzed for his fund for giving to corporations, yet his entire fund is $255 million for the whole state, one-fourth of what Houston spent on stadiums.

TV revenue and merchandise makes big bucks for sports clubs, no doubt. But they make even more cash with those amenities AND a new stadium with more private suites to house corporate sponsors that put money into the team. I'm assuming that sponsorship is the highest source of income for teams, and is the reason why the Texans are worth so much (Anheiser Busch, I think. Please correct if I'm wrong. I'm only going by memory there). These teams, like any business, want as much as they can for as little as they have to spend (revenue). Think about that one sentence you said earlier...

If the team plays in their old stadium, players may just get paid a bit less.

...and the teams want the best players on their team...not just to win, but to make more money off endorsements and sponsorships. Yao Ming and McGrady are great players, and want to win, but think about how much money and tv time Alexander and the Rockets are making off their fame. It's easier to lure good talents into new stadiums, too. It's all about two things: Comfort and greed.

Redscare, you're being too practical, too realistic, and too smart. I LOVE sports, but c'mon, it's just a fantasy world. It's just entertainment. We'll spend our tax dollars on grants for a new theme park if we have to. Spend tax payer dollars for stadiums for teams we love because we want to keep them, then get mad at the owners because they threatened to leave to go to another city that wants to steal them with more amenities. Donate millions of dollars to the Museum of Fine Arts and the Houston Zoo. We don't NEED any of it. We just LOVE it. It's a hobby for some, and something to do for others. Looking at Mona Lisa, petting a zebra, riding a roller coaster, and debating Bush vs. Young will not save our lives. Education, law enforcement, and our medical staffs will. But the point is that we want to be entertained, and we as a community are willing to spend our money for it. It sounds bizarre even reading what I'm typing. Hope I didn't just alienate myself :unsure:

And in regarding to this thread, I'll be entertained when Houston Dynamo wins H-town a championship or two...

Edited by DJ V Lawrence
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How much money did the city of Houston put in for Reliant Stadium? 'Cause, like, I heard it was all paid for by McNair and RodeoHouston. If that isn't true, then why was there never a vote for it?

The Harris County paid for $374 of the total $449 million cost, including a $12mm loan. $50 million was supposed to be funded by sales of personal seat licenses, and $25 was a loan from Bob McNair. I believe there was no separate vote because it was authorized under the election that approved public funding for MMP.

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The Harris County paid for $374 of the total $449 million cost, including a $12mm loan. $50 million was supposed to be funded by sales of personal seat licenses, and $25 was a loan from Bob McNair. I believe there was no separate vote because it was authorized under the election that approved public funding for MMP.

Sounds like a lot of cash for one vote. So MMP's vote was for funding for TWO stadiums? Was that, like, fine print? I don't remember seeing Bob McNair campaigning for the MMP yes vote. Did he?

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Hence, why I really don't care much for pro sports anymore. In fact, my Texans seats are going up for sale, if anyone wants them.

RedScare, the Houston Cougars would be happy to have you join in the festivities on campus this fall! 713-GO-COOGS!

I think season tickets range between $55 (for endzone seats) and $125 (for sideline seats). That's for the season, not per game.

I haven't watched an NFL game in years...but I attend every UH home game. I find UH games entertaining, even in our down years, but NFL bores me to death. I can't root for the overpaid pros.

Any news on the Dynamos stadium? Seems strangely quiet on that front.

Rumor has it that the Dynamos may be interested in making UH's Robertson Stadium their permanent home.

It will be a few years before UH's Athletic Department sees the money, but UH will be starting a huge capital fund drive in a year or two. Some small portion of that money will be allocated to the Athletics Department for facilities upgrades. Those upgrades may be what MLS is looking for in a permanent stadium.

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Any news on the Dynamos stadium? Seems strangely quiet on that front.

I wouldn't expect to hear any concrete news on a new stadium this year. I don't think AEG will own the team long-term, we don't yet know how much Houston will support the team in attendance, and don't know how much the city would be needed to finance it. Let's see who buys the team first.

Why couldn't McNair buy the team, move them to Reliant, save mad money on a new stadium for a while, and build up a team following there?

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Here's an article concerning the absurdity of renaming the team:

http://americandaily.com/article/12438

Pretty predictable, considering the Mike Wallace cartoon at the top of the page. However, speaking of contorting yourself to make a political point, why didn't this clearly conservative blogger make mention of the real reason for the name change? The team exists only to make a profit. If a significant percentage of the fan base feels slighted, it will impact revenue. The solution is to remove the impediment to maximum revenue.

Sports teams, like retail stores, are not in the business of political statements. The Houston team correctly determined that changing the name to appease likely hispanic ticket buyers was preferable to keeping the offending name. Interestingly, those offended at the name change are equally hyper-sensitive to those offended by the original name. Moreover, this demographic is likely not to be as big a ticket buying block. The biggest ticket buyers are likely to be hispanics and soccer playing youth, two groups likely to appreciate the new name, or not to care about the change. "Angry White Males" are not likely to fill the stands, regardless of the name. From a business standpoint, it makes sense to change the name.

You would think that capitalists would understand this concept better than anyone. Apparently not.

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Here's an article concerning the absurdity of renaming the team:

http://americandaily.com/article/12438

Sheesh! A bit overwrought, no? These guys need to have a drink and give it a rest. The team changed a dumb name to a good one. I'm happy.

Why couldn't McNair buy the team, move them to Reliant, save mad money on a new stadium for a while, and build up a team following there?

Reliant is too big. I think Robertson will work better in the short term.

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Guest danax
The team exists only to make a profit. If a significant percentage of the fan base feels slighted, it will impact revenue. The solution is to remove the impediment to maximum revenue.

That is correct, in this case. What would be interesting to observe would be the next time someone tries to depict or honor Sam Houston, Houston's founding or anything else that might be construed as slighting the defeated Mexicans of almost 2 centuries ago. Would we get the same protesting, now that a sort of precedent has been set?

Good thing the Sam Houston statue in Hermann Park was erected decades ago. I'd say the City of Houston will never be permitted to honor anything to do with its revolutionary history again.

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Lynn Ashby has a great editorial on this in print this week, and he is far from a "conservative angry white guy".

He's real.

I'll post the link one it gets to the Web.

And if Mexicans are so darn senstive, I wonder what they think of having the Alamo in San Antonio?

Or shoud we tear down the San Jacinto monument to make the Mexicans happy?

Edited by MidtownCoog
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Reliant is too big. I think Robertson will work better in the short term.

In terms of Robertson short term, I agree.

But with Reliant; if you have a steady 30,000 filling up an existing stadium with 65,000 seats, how exactly do you make money building a new stadium for $100 million? And when soccer blows up in the upcoming years, will all these 20,000 seat stadiums want expansions or another stadium?

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Thing is you don't get 30,000 crowds at MLS games. Team historic average attendance runs from 11,000 (KC) up to 21,600 (LA Galaxy), and league average attendance has been effectively flat since inception. Those 20,000 capacity futbol stadiums are the right size and will probably remain so. I just don't see soccer attendance exploding.

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And if Mexicans are so darn senstive, I wonder what they think of having the Alamo in San Antonio?

Don't you remember who won the Alamo? Why would Mexico feel sensitive about their own victory? Remember when Disney's "The Alamo" came out. Mexico was not offended about the Alamo, but they were offended about the depictions of San Jacinto. I really don't understand why there's any fuss about our history when it comes to people wanting to gloify it like 1836 and stuff.

To Subdude, realistically I think you make a valid point. But there have been high attendance soccer matches before in America. The Colorado Rapids once had over 70,000 watching their team at Invesco Field, the Manchester United exibition games last year each I think had over 40,000, and the Women's World Cup final at Rose Bowl Stadium had well over 90,000+ cheering on the USA. The potential is there. And once Americans become consistantly patriotic, the US national team will get the support as America's team, and that may trickle down into high MLS attendance as well. More Americans will have to show that they're proud to be Americans first, though...

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hey i'm new to this forum, and i just wanted to say that the people that wanted to change the original name only represented a very, very small minority of mexican americans that wanted to change the name. most of us really don't care about mexico anymore, that country is corrupt and the United States of America is our adopted country now. anyway i think that most of the mexicans here will not be interested in MLS.

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