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Could be worse... Developers could start selling naming rights for this type of project like they do sports arenas and office towers.

We could be stuck with "Continental Square" or "The Park at Minute Maid Square.... On the Parkway"

Edited by Highway6
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Well, Allen Square is a great name, coming as it does from local heroes. But I think it would be a bit confusing because of Allen Center and Allen's Landing. I think Parkway Square would be a better choice. Or, since it's just west of downtown, how about WeDo Square? Just kidding. :P

Edited by happytown

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Or, since it's just west of downtown, how about WeDo Square? Just kidding. :P

West of Downtown.. yet South of Buffalo Bayou.............

WeDo SoBuff Square

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West of Downtown.. yet South of Buffalo Bayou.............

WeDo SoBuff Square

I'm not sure, but it almost sounds like it belongs to the following:

A gym in the montrose

A park in the montrose.

A Bath house.

A Bar in the montrose.

Go fig.

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More and more of the people that buy homes in that area just east of Shephered and just north of the River Oaks shopping center are not comfortable with their million dollar homes being in to Montrose. Of course, the River Oaks crowd doesn't want to be associated with them either. Maybe a good transitional name for the area east of Shephered, west of Dunlavy, south of the bayou and north of 59 would be "Montroaks." As long as it is not alreay covered by part of the "Upper Kirby District."

Edited by capnmcbarnacle

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When did the Montrose get zoning? And, why do people buy there if they are uncomfortable with it?

There isn't any zoning, I was just commenting on what they are labeled. To me, east of Shepherd is Montrose, and has been as long as I was here. But a lot of these new spec homes are listed as being in "neartown," "museum district", "upper kirby," or, in the case of the house built next to me, "River Oaks Area."

I think a lot of realtors, and customers, don't want to say they live in Montrose -- hence the ridiculous euphemisms. I'll never forget the shock and awe of my "river oaks area" neighbor when the Harris County Transgendered float lined up in front of his house before the Pride Parade. Pricesess

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I'll never forget the shock and awe of my "river oaks area" neighbor when the Harris County Transgendered float lined up in front of his house before the Pride Parade. Pricesess

...never heard that term before. Is that when they dress the corpse of Vincent Price up like a princess?

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Keep in mind that the Greater Montrose area is a general term for a group of smaller communities, some of which have different demographics as well as designs from the other neighbornoods.

But Cap'n Barnacle's point about some of the broad labeling of certain areas (that is, Upper Kirby, River Oaks, etc) is well taken.

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There isn't any zoning, I was just commenting on what they are labeled. To me, east of Shepherd is Montrose, and has been as long as I was here. But a lot of these new spec homes are listed as being in "neartown," "museum district", "upper kirby," or, in the case of the house built next to me, "River Oaks Area."

I think a lot of realtors, and customers, don't want to say they live in Montrose -- hence the ridiculous euphemisms. I'll never forget the shock and awe of my "river oaks area" neighbor when the Harris County Transgendered float lined up in front of his house before the Pride Parade. Pricesess

You're absolutely right. Upper Kirby really doesn't overlap the Montrose, but "Neartown" was dreamed up specifically as a marketing ploy, so people wouldn't have to admit they lived in "Montrose" and were therefore gay. Of course, tricks that obvious don't really fool anyone but, apparently, real estate agents.

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You're absolutely right. Upper Kirby really doesn't overlap the Montrose, but "Neartown" was dreamed up specifically as a marketing ploy, so people wouldn't have to admit they lived in "Montrose" and were therefore gay. Of course, tricks that obvious don't really fool anyone but, apparently, real estate agents.

mmm.....somehow, I doubt that is the case.

Neartown Association

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Wow, that really is a lot of retail!

It's also a small area and only a couple of ways to get in and out. It will impact traffic between West Gray and Allen Pkwy north/south, and Shepherd and Waugh east-west. I'm in that area daily, running errands at lunch and after work, and it's pretty congested now. At the very least, turns lanes and lights at Dunlavy and Allen Parkway will need to go in, as well as turn lanes at Dunlavy and Dallas. There are a lot of steet parkers in that area because all the townhomes surrounding the site. During evening rush hour Dunlavy is stacked from Dallas to Allen Parkway. By 5:30, Allen Pkwy westbound often stacks up at the Shepherd light all the way back to Dunlavy. And West Gray is pretty tricky now, since there aren't any protected lefts at the Dunlavy, Woodhead and McDuffie lights.

EDIT: actually the whole area is a pain because of the lack of protected lefts. W Gray and Waugh for starters.

Edited by crunchtastic

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If you want to go straight, stay in the right lane.

Seems pretty simple. :)

Ah, but unfortunately I have many left-turn needs. Like all the other people who are going to Allen Pkwy from W Gray.

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Wow. This project is going to completely change that part of town. It will be great for those of us near downtown to have a collection of shops so close together (that are not in Highland Mall and the Galleria).

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It will be very cool having so much new stuff in walking distance of my office. No more parking lot roulette at the MegaMarshall's when I need lunch-hour retail therapy.

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Thanks for posting the plans. It's quibbling, I know, but I would have liked the diagonal cross street ("Street B") to have run in a straight line to form a central axis through the development.

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Thanks for posting the plans. It's quibbling, I know, but I would have liked the diagonal cross street ("Street B") to have run in a straight line to form a central axis through the development.

Is there any reason a central axis cannot run on the diagonal? Personally, I really like the diagaonal axis. And I am guess is that part of the reason for it is to lead to (and from) the east end of River Oaks Shopping Center.

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Is there any reason a central axis cannot run on the diagonal? Personally, I really like the diagaonal axis. And I am guess is that part of the reason for it is to lead to (and from) the east end of River Oaks Shopping Center.

No, I very much like the diagonal axis, but I would like it better if it weren't bent at the intersection with West Dallas. I would like a straight axis running at a diagonal through both the north and south sections of the site. As I said, I'm quibbling here.

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So the "Units" on the upper plan are all apartment space?

This thing will be nice when it gets rolling... I just went to Dallas last weekend and was pretty impressed with their West Village development and the area around it, I'm hoping Regent Square has the same sort of feel (except maybe without all the super yuppies).

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If the this thing gets fully built out then this could easily have 1000-1500 units.

How many does/did allen house have?

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If the this thing gets fully built out then this could easily have 1000-1500 units.

When they first announced the project, they said the first phase will have 740 units and "a future phase" could have 1,000 more units (including both condos and apartments.)

How many does/did allen house have?

896

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When they first announced the project, they said the first phase will have 740 units and "a future phase" could have 1,000 more units (including both condos and apartments.)

Well there are more than a 1000 units on that upper level plan.

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Well, I just hope it hurries along.

I've been hearing from a few business owners that business has dropped a bit by not having occupants of Allen house around anymore. It is just fortunate that there is enough business that it doesn't make that big of an impact.

I'm assuming that they mean they're just not making as much money as they used to, but they're not going to go out of business because they already have enough patronage to keep them in the black.

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Those new drawings don't seem to show the condo and office towers in the original drawings, but that's not too surprising given the ambitious nature of intial drawings. I was pleased to see they still have space of a boutique hotel. I think there is a definite niche for a small hotel serving the neighborhood. I'll be interested to see how this shakes out...

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Those new drawings don't seem to show the condo and office towers in the original drawings, but that's not too surprising given the ambitious nature of intial drawings. I was pleased to see they still have space of a boutique hotel. I think there is a definite niche for a small hotel serving the neighborhood. I'll be interested to see how this shakes out...

I got word from the developers that they are aiming for a construction start of late summer or fall.

I'll leave the pessimism to subsequent posters...

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I always wonder, in cases like this and the River Oaks Shopping Center, why they tear down the old structures early instead of waiting until as soon as possible before construction begins. You would have thought the ongoing income from Allen House would have come in handy.

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The only thing I can think of is that with the variety of leases available to tenants, they didn't want to risk being held up because some leases would end up running a couple of months past the desired start date. Other than that, I tend to agree with you. Seems as if they could've gotten another 9 months or so out of the last tenants.

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Standard Operating Procedure is to keep the tenants as long as you can by converting leases to month-to-month as they roll. When you're ready build, you give them 30-days notice to vacate and the bulldozers come in a week later.

The Regent Square developers told the tenants to get out because they thought they were ready to build. They weren't. They had to go back to the drawing board because their previous plan didn't work. They left a lot of money on the table with their hasty demolition.

I'm curious to see how their scaled down project works out.

Only time will tell.

bpe3

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Standard Operating Procedure is to keep the tenants as long as you can by converting leases to month-to-month as they roll. When you're ready build, you give them 30-days notice to vacate and the bulldozers come in a week later.

The Regent Square developers told the tenants to get out because they thought they were ready to build. They weren't. They had to go back to the drawing board because their previous plan didn't work. They left a lot of money on the table with their hasty demolition.

I'm curious to see how their scaled down project works out.

Only time will tell.

bpe3

You're correct. As demoltion day comes nearer, if you're an apartment owner and you have to concess the living hell out of rents to keep the place occupied, that is still preferable to the alternative. Vacant units just don't generate income.

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Aren't property taxes way less with no structures on them also?

Realistically, if the underlying value of the land is in excess of the present value of the stream of income from the existing structures, then value is actually added to the land by demolishing the structures and thereby making it less costly for the next developer to build. But the way the property tax system actually works, yes, you're probably right.

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Realistically, if the underlying value of the land is in excess of the present value of the stream of income from the existing structures, then value is actually added to the land by demolishing the structures and thereby making it less costly for the next developer to build. But the way the property tax system actually works, yes, you're probably right.

I think they obviously are off of their timetable a little bit, but they might not be getting hammered sitting on vacant land. I recall an early article about this development stating that the compnay has owned this place a long, long, time. If they own this land outright and aren't paying a note on it somewhere, they might not be losing money. They also have all the units that are stll east of Dunlavy and South of Dallas. So while they aren't generating as much money as they were, I doubt they are sitting there hemmorhaging money while waiting to get started. Just a thought.

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I think they obviously are off of their timetable a little bit, but they might not be getting hammered sitting on vacant land. I recall an early article about this development stating that the compnay has owned this place a long, long, time. If they own this land outright and aren't paying a note on it somewhere, they might not be losing money. They also have all the units that are stll east of Dunlavy and South of Dallas. So while they aren't generating as much money as they were, I doubt they are sitting there hemmorhaging money while waiting to get started. Just a thought.

Opportunity cost. One way or another, they're getting hammered.

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Here's some quick math: 900 units @ $90,000/unit = $81,000,000 value X 5.5% cap rate = $4,455,000 NOI/year = $371,250/month. Assuming they tore down 2/3rds of the units, the early demolition is costing them $245,045/month in foregone cash flow. It's not the kind of money that will make or break this project. At the same time, it's enough to get someone's attention. No smart delevoper would just leave this much sitting on the table. Clearly they thought they'd be going vertical by now.

bpe3

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It seems pretty clear that they reached an unexpected snag in the timetable. What the implications are for the project overall will obviously remain to be seen. I would certainly like to see or hear of revisions to whichever aspects of the project that are deemed prudent by the development group.

Edited by The Great Hizzy!

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Here's some quick math: 900 units @ $90,000/unit = $81,000,000 value X 5.5% cap rate = $4,455,000 NOI/year = $371,250/month. Assuming they tore down 2/3rds of the units, the early demolition is costing them $245,045/month in foregone cash flow. It's not the kind of money that will make or break this project. At the same time, it's enough to get someone's attention. No smart delevoper would just leave this much sitting on the table. Clearly they thought they'd be going vertical by now.

bpe3

what?!?!

seriously, stop.

if you don't understand underwriting, please, don't act like you do.

and let's not go back into the debate of economics because i already wasted enough time trying to explain things to you. had you been a tad more receptive back then, probably would be happy to elaborate.

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if you don't understand underwriting, please, don't act like you do.

For the record, my primary business is brokering commercial real estate loans. I've closed over $2 billion in CMBS and life company loans in the last 5 years alone. At least 75% of those have been multi-family. Earlier in my career I worked for a Fannie Mae DUS shop doing nothing but underwriting multi-family loans. I think I know a thing or two about underwriting.

I wasn't underwriting the deal. That's why it called it some "quick math". It nothing more than a back of the envelope estimate of what this deal might be throwing off. If anyone really wants to know how a deal like this really underwrites, I'd be happy explain it.

and let's not go back into the debate of economics because i already wasted enough time trying to explain things to you. had you been a tad more receptive back then, probably would be happy to elaborate.

Did I miss something? I don't recall getting an economics lesson from you at all.

bpe3

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Did I miss something? I don't recall getting an economics lesson from you at all.

I think Houston-Development is confusing you with somebody else from a different thread that was genuinely being a jackass.

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I think Houston-Development is confusing you with somebody else from a different thread that was genuinely being a jackass.

I agree. He's either confusing poor bpe3 with either you or me.

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I agree. He's either confusing poor bpe3 with either you or me.

I was thinking of a different jackass, but thank you for volunteering us. :D

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I was thinking of a different jackass, but thank you for volunteering us. :D

that's okay. I embrace my assessness and openly acknowledge it.

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I was thinking of a different jackass, but thank you for volunteering us. :D

That was funny.

A question about something completely off topic: why is the"Hotel"member rank use that old Days Inn as the representative icon? That must be a joke. No need for an actual reply, or a scolding for being off topic. I just want to point that out.

Edited by bkjones98

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