Citizens National Bank At 402 Main St.

[tierwestah]

Dalparadise is 100% correct... We went out Thurs. night and DT main street was dead. A few clubs were open and that was about it. I remember going out 5 years ago DT main street was full of people with dozens of clubs and bars from Wed. to Sun. night. Since DT was dead we took a cab to midtown, midtowns restraunts and bars were full of people. The streets were full of people walking and eating at the outside bars. It was very similar to what mainstreet was several years ago.

I beleive their are two reason why main street is dead now.

First reason - Main street is in a transition phase. I heard this from two people who are involved with the inside issues of DT. The city and DT residents want the clubs closed. Residents were tired of hearing loud music and people through the night. The city wants DT main street to be a livable neighborhood with upscale restraunts, bars, and retail. This is why the city has stop issuing new and renewing bar and club licenses. This is the main reason why the clubs are closing and new ones are not opening up.

Second reason - Houston going out scene migrates from area to area. I remember when the Richmond Strip and Shepard Plaza were cool and their were full of people. Then DT main street was full of people having a fun. To be honest with every new area that was full of clubs and bars, every thing was cool, then a few years later the thugs start showing up and it slowly pushes out the people who spend money and want to have fun. This is happening to Main Street and this is what happen to the Richmond Strip and Shepard Plaza.

Areas like the village have done a good job of not letting this happen....I also hope this doesn't happen to Midtown.

You right their are many other places that are full of people and that are full of fun, but right now DT main street is dead after 10PM. The nice restraunts and bars that are full of people close about that time and people scatter off of main street like a plaque is coming.

Not trying to throw out the race card here but the more i read posts like this, the more i realize that some people here are scared of African Americans.

I went to the same Main Street on Friday night and it was not dead. This was about 11:00 pm. I think some of you all are trying to keep from saying that a high presence of African Americans turns people away. If you think Midtown Houston is actually hopping compared to Main Street, then i have nothing to believe other than the people on Main Street are scaring you guys off.

Sorry Mods. It had to be said.

[Trae]

How can you be scared of black people? We don't bite.

[ricco67]

Not trying to throw out the race card here but the more i read posts like this, the more i realize that some people here are scared of African Americans.

I went to the same Main Street on Friday night and it was not dead. This was about 11:00 pm. I think some of you all are trying to keep from saying that a high presence of African Americans turns people away. If you think Midtown Houston is actually hopping compared to Main Street, then i have nothing to believe other than the people on Main Street are scaring you guys off.

Sorry Mods. It had to be said.

How can you be scared of black people? We don't bite.

It may not be all that he seems to imply to, I'm not going to defend what he said, nor am I going to attack him, I'm going to owe it to poor writing until he says otherwise.

But it also goes to show how perception can be skewed when you don't take into account of places you don't normally go to. Midtown is shaping up nicely, it is only a shame that there aren't more residences there to help for more infrastructure be put in.

[102IAHexpress]

This is a complicated issue. I don

[Ethanra]

Not trying to throw out the race card here but the more i read posts like this, the more i realize that some people here are scared of African Americans.

I went to the same Main Street on Friday night and it was not dead. This was about 11:00 pm. I think some of you all are trying to keep from saying that a high presence of African Americans turns people away. If you think Midtown Houston is actually hopping compared to Main Street, then i have nothing to believe other than the people on Main Street are scaring you guys off.

Sorry Mods. It had to be said.

Compared to 5 years ago, main street was dead. Four or five clubs were open vs. dozens that would be open several years ago. People are not scared of blacks but most Euro, Asian, and Hispanic Americans did not like the same music and atmosphere that the few clubs that are still open cater to. Since their are few blacks at country music bars or alternative music bars does it mean that they are scared of Euro Americans? Midtown was full of thousands of people just like the way Main Street was several years ago. Asian Americans and Euro Americans were in line at Sammy's. Euro Americans, Asian Americans, Hispanic Americans, Middle Eastren Americans were walking the street having at a good time at El Patio, Little Windrows, Toppsy Turvy, Pub Fiction, and two dozen other places. Their were very few blacks Midtown. Are Euro Americans, Asian Americans, Hispanic Americans, Middle Eastren Americans scaring blacks from Midtown??

Don't play the B.S. race card, people are not scarred and every group of people have different interest and people are going to go where they enjoy the music and atmosphere. Please note - the first paragraph had a little sarcasm behind hit.

Edited May 28, 2007 by Ethanra

[ricco67]

This is a complicated issue. I don

[tierwestah]

Compared to 5 years ago, main street was dead. Four or five clubs were open vs. dozens that would be open several years ago. People are not scared of blacks but most Euro, Asian, and Hispanic Americans did not like the same music and atmosphere that the few clubs that are still open cater to. Since their are few blacks at country music bars or alternative music bars does it mean that they are scared of Euro Americans? Midtown was full of thousands of people just like the way Main Street was several years ago. Asian Americans and Euro Americans were in line at Sammy's. Euro Americans, Asian Americans, Hispanic Americans, Middle Eastren Americans were walking the street having at a good time at El Patio, Little Windrows, Toppsy Turvy, Pub Fiction, and two dozen other places. Their were very few blacks Midtown. Are Euro Americans, Asian Americans, Hispanic Americans, Middle Eastren Americans scaring blacks from Midtown??

Don't play the B.S. race card, people are not scarred and every group of people have different interest and people are going to go where they enjoy the music and atmosphere. Please note - the first paragraph had a little sarcasm behind hit.

The racecard ain't BS when i read posts like the one you made. All i'm saying is, don't try to act like it's not a color issue when clearly it is. Downtown is not catering to the crowd you or dalparadise likes so its considered "Dead". Me and an out of town visitor went downtown and there were various clubs going on. We both thought downtown was happenin'.Everytime i go to midtown, there's something going on but i don't see one person of color. That inclines me to believe that's more of the crowd you're looking for. All i'm saying is, keep it real!

Edited May 28, 2007 by tierwestah

[Ethanra]

The racecard ain't BS when i read posts like the one you made. All i'm saying is, don't try to act like it's not a color issue when clearly it is. Downtown is not catering to the crowd you or dalparadise likes so its considered "Dead". Me and an out of town visitor went downtown and there were various clubs going on. We both thought downtown was happenin'.Everytime i go to midtown, there's something going on but i don't see one person of color. That inclines me to believe that's more of the crowd you're looking for. All i'm saying is, keep it real!

I am "keeping it real"! The fact is Main Street has maybe five clubs open now vs. dozens that were open several years ago. So Yes, main street is dead compared to what Main Street was several years ago, compared to midtowns dozens of bars that are open, and compared to other areas like the village. Also, all the nice restraunts and bars DT close by 11PM. Main Street is dead.... By person of color, what do you mean, because MT is full of Asians, Hispanics, Middle Easterns, and Euroamericans. I'll repeat myself -- Different people like different music and atmospheres, and that is the reason different clubs and areas have different groups of people. Are gay bars against straight people? Are country bars against black people? Are Latin clubs against white people? No, it is not a race issue, different groups of people like different things. The race issue will never stop as long as people like you, continue to bring it up with no merit! So "Keep it Real"!

[tierwestah]

I am "keeping it real"! The fact is Main Street has maybe five clubs open now vs. dozens that were open several years ago. So Yes, main street is dead compared to what Main Street was several years ago, compared to midtowns dozens of bars that are open, and compared to other areas like the village. Also, all the nice restraunts and bars DT close by 11PM. Main Street is dead.... By person of color, what do you mean, because MT is full of Asians, Hispanics, Middle Easterns, and Euroamericans. I'll repeat myself -- Different people like different music and atmospheres, and that is the reason different clubs and areas have different groups of people. Are gay bars against straight people? Are country bars against black people? Are Latin clubs against white people? No, it is not a race issue, different groups of people like different things. The race issue will never stop as long as people like you, continue to bring it up with no merit! So "Keep it Real"!

Yeah, let's keep it real. Why don't you and i agree to meet next friday and i'll show you how we do it here in downtown. Since you and dal think its dead. Downtown is every much as hoppin' as it was before. We'll encircle the whole downtown all the way thru pink monkey/toc bar area and head out to the Rocbar which i think would be more of the crowd that you hope to gain. IT willl be "hoppin". Oh, and you don't have to worry about African Americans at the Rocbar. That should make you feel comfortable enough .

Oh and how about that Pavilions project?

Edited May 28, 2007 by tierwestah

[dalparadise]

I don't think I wrote anything too cryptic to understand. But, I'll say it again in plain English: When clubs and bars Downtown -- where major investments in design, rent and promotion are required just to stay in business -- begin only attracting one minority racial group, it's a sign they're on their last legs. These clubs are like theme parks -- they must draw from the largest group with the most disposable income that's willing to put it in their pockets.

That group generally starts out as single people (non-race specific) 25-34, making over $50,000. To truly be successful, a bar or club that aspires to be a "destination," as most in Downtown do, must find a way to build a big night out of one of the Sunday-Thursday opportunities. So, add "willing and able to spend on off-nights on a regular basis" to our customer criteria. And, because it's bars we're talking about, you need a healthy turnout of people who live very nearby, so the drive, walk, or train home is short and "safe". You may not like to hear this, but the vast majority of people in this city who fit that criteria are caucasian. I know there are African Americans, Koreans, Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, Native Americans, Samoans, Mexicans, Argentinians and maybe even a few Aggies who also meet that criteria. However, when you decrease your sample down to a single race, it gets increasingly difficult to hit all those hot buttons.

Don't believe me? Ask yourself why a country dance club hasn't been able to establish itself Downtown. One could assume it would draw exclusively whites. No, the places that have been successful for the longest times have spanned racial lines. I used to see a really good mix of whites, blacks, Asians and Hispanics in places like Tonic, Mercury Room and the other mainstays. When they started going all-black or all-Asian, or whatever, they signalled that they were going out of business.

It's not a black thing. It's a green thing. A Downtown club with big overhead can't survive on two nights per week of parking lot pimping. That's why 4/5 of what was the nightlife district is now boarded-up. Yes, I told you I saw a couple of clubs with people hanging around outside. To say that having something like that is an indication that Downtown is healthy for retail, restaurants and nightlife tells me you don't have a good understanding of what will really make Downtown viable as a residential/entertainment destination in the long run.

Edited May 28, 2007 by dalparadise

[ricco67]

It's not a black thing. It's a green thing. A Downtown club with big overhead can't survive on two nights per week of parking lot pimping. That's why 4/5 of what was the nightlife district is now boarded-up. Yes, I told you I saw a couple of clubs with people hanging around outside. To say that having something like that is an indication that Downtown is healthy for retail, restaurants and nightlife tells me you don't have a good understanding of what will really make Downtown viable as a residential/entertainment destination in the long run.

Funny, I think you were a participant on the initial topic (Post #26) in which we were discussing how downtown has been going downhill. While clubs have a tendency to die off as their initial costumers die off (or rather, "grow up") and move to other venues.

Clubs have a high turnover rate and the city has been enforcing the noise ordinance to try to make the place more habitable for the residences that ARE there. The current crop of clubs are still doing great business, it's just a matter of getting rid of the freeloaders in the parking lots.

Then again, I think a "No loitering" sign should be enforced in the parking lots anyway.

Will one of the mods PLEASE transfer this discussion to one of the other threads pointed in my post or have them deleted please? We're going WAY far off topic.

(and I'm not helping)

Edited May 28, 2007 by ricco67

[713 To 214]

Clubs have a high turnover rate and the city has been enforcing the noise ordinance to try to make the place more habitable for the residences that ARE there.

I personally think that if you live downtown, you should expect a certain amount of noise. It's the heart of the city. If you want "quiet," move to the Woodlands. The retail shops and restaurants at the Pavilions will also bring increased noise levels. DT Residents should be of the school of thought that embraces the noise that is a bi-product of "the city."

[Jax]

I lived in the heart of Montreal and I didn't have to deal with music from loud clubs while I was trying to sleep. The traffic noise was the only noise I had to deal with, besides annoying neighbors on occasion. If people can hear music from clubs inside apartment buildings, I think that is a problem. I'm not sure if it's a problem with the way the apartments are built or the clubs themselves though. Noise on the street one thing, noise disturbing people in their homes is another.

Lots of people live in city centers more vibrant than Houston's and don't have to deal with noise pollution like that, so I don't think you can say it's normal or it should be expected.

Also I don't see the pavilions creating noise that would bother residents of downtown, unless somebody decides to build apartments attached to the House of Blues!

[dalparadise]

Funny, I think you were a participant on the initial topic (Post #26) in which we were discussing how downtown has been going downhill. While clubs have a tendency to die off as their initial costumers die off (or rather, "grow up") and move to other venues.

Clubs have a high turnover rate and the city has been enforcing the noise ordinance to try to make the place more habitable for the residences that ARE there. The current crop of clubs are still doing great business, it's just a matter of getting rid of the freeloaders in the parking lots.

Then again, I think a "No loitering" sign should be enforced in the parking lots anyway.

Will one of the mods PLEASE transfer this discussion to one of the other threads pointed in my post or have them deleted please? We're going WAY far off topic.

(and I'm not helping)

Why is it funny? I haven't changed my opinion.

Also, perhaps you should ask yourself why the city is cracking down on this noise ordinance now. They didn't seem to mind when the clubs were making money. Now, when there are just a few that attract a lot of loitering, it's an all-of-a-sudden issue.

My theory is that they're trying to hurry along the clubs' demise, so they can start over. Regardless, the writing's on the wall for nightlife in Downtown.

[Subdude]

Will one of the mods PLEASE transfer this discussion to one of the other threads pointed in my post or have them deleted please?

Thanks. Done.

[TheNiche]

Not trying to throw out the race card here but the more i read posts like this, the more i realize that some people here are scared of African Americans.

I went to the same Main Street on Friday night and it was not dead. This was about 11:00 pm. I think some of you all are trying to keep from saying that a high presence of African Americans turns people away. If you think Midtown Houston is actually hopping compared to Main Street, then i have nothing to believe other than the people on Main Street are scaring you guys off.

Sorry Mods. It had to be said.

I don't blame dal for being a little disconcerted about being in the midst of any large group of people that have a vastly disproportionate representation of a given race/ethnicity. Monocultural populations are scary--including the white ones.

Ethanra: I think you've hit it on the head. Race is different from ethnicity/culture. Ask an African immigrant what they think of African-Americans. It usually ain't very pretty.

Edited May 29, 2007 by TheNiche

[TexasArchitect]

who really cares....i'll have to agree w/ the person that posted that this isn't a problem.

clubs suck and i can say this since i always went clubbin throught college and even early in my career, and no i didn't go to bars i went to CLUBS and all kinds ranging from hip hop, country, tejano, dance/house to salsa, and just to show my range of places i've been i even made the mistake of going to the Roxy

what happens is. a new club opens everyone goes to it for a while as it's the new hot spot. since it's new it's nice, clean, not too ghetto, then after time the club literally turns ghetto!! closes down and a new one pops up. who cares, downtown will keep doing this turnover club routine.........

[ArchitecturalPRGirl]

who really cares....i'll have to agree w/ the person that posted that this isn't a problem.

clubs suck and i can say this since i always went clubbin throught college and even early in my career, and no i didn't go to bars i went to CLUBS and all kinds ranging from hip hop, country, tejano, dance/house to salsa, and just to show my range of places i've been i even made the mistake of going to the Roxy

what happens is. a new club opens everyone goes to it for a while as it's the new hot spot. since it's new it's nice, clean, not too ghetto, then after time the club literally turns ghetto!! closes down and a new one pops up. who cares, downtown will keep doing this turnover club routine.........

I went downtown last week to take my friend out for drinks for his birthday. WE decided to go to Char Bar/Duke of Hollywood and they were closed. Warren's was closed too. So we started walking down Main street and it was all dark. Building after building had "For Lease" signs in windows, the old M Bar/Prague even had some weird paper in the windows that said something like it had been "seized." Dean's was the only place open, granted it was a work day. So we went in and besides one other guy, we were the only customers. I talked to the bartender and asked her how they were doing and she said it's really bad and they are barely hanging on by a string. She said it's way worse than when they torw up Main and put the rail in and no one wanted to go downtown cause of the mess and they held on through that.

It's sad and depressed down there now. I worked at one of the first places down there (it's still open) in college and remember it when it was booming. When the traffic down travis on a Saturday night practically reached the Pierce Elevated. So the guy who was talking about it booming is very mistaken. It's going to be hard to revitalize it again when club owners don't want to take the risk and invest, and since people perceive it as being "ghetto and dead," it's a downward spiral.

Look for the new midtown on Washington, that's gonna blow up in the next 2 years.

[ricco67]

The question is: WHEN on a weekday was it? noon? Tuesday?

Downtown doesn't really pick up until Thursdays. I won't mind if a few of the clubs shut down, I think it would be better if a few bars would just open up for residents and office workers to go after work.

I'm not sure about Washington being the "new Midtown", there is a different dynamic there, but I do think a few clubs can do well that could work well off each other.

Midtown is still quite vibrant due to it's growing population of people that can simply walk to some of the bars there. On Washington, the population isn't as dense (so to speak) and again, some bars would likely do better.

[ArchitecturalPRGirl]

The question is: WHEN on a weekday was it? noon? Tuesday?

Downtown doesn't really pick up until Thursdays. I won't mind if a few of the clubs shut down, I think it would be better if a few bars would just open up for residents and office workers to go after work.

I'm not sure about Washington being the "new Midtown", there is a different dynamic there, but I do think a few clubs can do well that could work well off each other.

Midtown is still quite vibrant due to it's growing population of people that can simply walk to some of the bars there. On Washington, the population isn't as dense (so to speak) and again, some bars would likely do better.

Like I said, I understand and take into account that it was a week day, but literally every building down Main has a For Lease sign in it. They were once all thriving businesses. I work downtown so the happy hour crowd still exists, but then everyone leaves. There used to be a lot more places open later and on weekdays.

As far as Washington, there are tons of townhouses in the area and MANY under construction, not to mention all of the apartments on Studemont and Memorial. There is a new mixed-use development currently under construction on Washington over near where the social used to be, and across from The Daily Grind.

I agree there is a different dynamic than midtown, maybe a little older, less Woodrowsish and Pub Fiction as it seems to have a younger crowd. With three wine bars and several good restaurants putting it on the map, and with Azuma's, Benjy's, Mandola's and Red Door's new concepts coming, things will be moving and Washington will continue to grow. There's quite a bit of space for development over there.

It will be interesting to watch.

[TexasArchitect]

I went downtown last week to take my friend out for drinks for his birthday.

It's sad and depressed down there now.

what a friend

LOL, j/k

y doesn't anyone go to sambucca's?? i haven't been in that area of downtown in a while so i don't even know if it's still there, but that place was still decent when i last went.

[Ethanra]

what a friend

LOL, j/k

y doesn't anyone go to sambucca's?? i haven't been in that area of downtown in a while so i don't even know if it's still there, but that place was still decent when i last went.

--Yes, Sambucca is still open. It is always full but usually closed by midnight. We still enjoy the food and the live music, but I've heard others mention the food has gone down-hill.

--I'll repeat it again. DT main street is dead, their was even a report on the news. Over 80% of the clubs and bars have closed, and anyone can see it by just walking and see all the "for lease" signs. It use to have dozens of clubs and bars open. I remember it was a crazy scene. Playboy, one year, even ranked Mercury Room one of the top 5 clubs in the U.S. I would see athletes from Barkley to Rashard Lewis with Kevin Garnett. Jaime Foxx would be spotted as well as other celebrities. It is a fact, Main Street was a fun scene. It is also a fact, Main Street now is dead! The rest of DT is dead after 11PM when the shows are done, and the nice restraunts and bars close.

--I wish the few remaining clubs would close on Main Street. I like what DT is turning into, I truly believe DT main Street is going to be an one of the best neighborhoods to live during the next decade(s). You will have nice restraunts, bars , and retail. You will also have cool venues like the HOB.

[musicman]

y doesn't anyone go to sambucca's?? i haven't been in that area of downtown in a while so i don't even know if it's still there, but that place was still decent when i last went.

if there's good music I'll go there, otherwise it's too expensive.

It is also a fact, Main Street now is dead! The rest of DT is dead after 11PM when the shows are done, and the nice restraunts and bars close.

--I wish the few remaining clubs would close on Main Street. I like what DT is turning into, I truly believe DT main Street is going to be an one of the best neighborhoods to live during the next decade(s). You will have nice restraunts, bars , and retail. You will also have cool venues like the HOB.

there is late night activity, you just have to know where to go. I personally leave if a place gets too crowded. i'm usually there with friends so we can relax and chat.

[ArchitecturalPRGirl]

Sambuca is very much alive. I was a cocktail waitress there for three years and actually still go there a lot. They are busy every night of the week. I agree their food used to be better, but it ain't bad.

NOTE: ALL APPETIZERS ARE 50% OFF AT HAPPY HOUR AND $3 HOUSE WINE (not sure what beer specials are cause I don't drink beer)

They have live music 7 days a week. The Zentenno band on Thursdays has been playing that night for the last 7 years! They are awesome. They play a lot of salsa and some other fun covers. It's like an 8 person band and people dance.

One other thing I can say about that place is that the same freaking people still work that were there when I worked there YEARS ago. That says something. Good management (and no aspirations, lol)

[TexasArchitect]

ok this is going a bit off topic, but since i asked about sambucca's i might as well ask about bongo's is that still up and running or has that been shut down??

[ArchitecturalPRGirl]

ok this is going a bit off topic, but since i asked about sambucca's i might as well ask about bongo's is that still up and running or has that been shut down??

Are you talking about on Travis? That's now Havana Nights and has been for a while. I don't really go there.

Or are you talking about Bossa-the Cuban restaurant on Main and Texas? That place is also one of the only survivors. I had dinner there a few months ago and my fish and my date's were seriously bland, especially for $28. But they have good atmosphere.

[TexasArchitect]

Are you talking about on Travis? That's now Havana Nights and has been for a while. I don't really go there.

Or are you talking about Bossa-the Cuban restaurant on Main and Texas? That place is also one of the only survivors. I had dinner there a few months ago and my fish and my date's were seriously bland, especially for $28. But they have good atmosphere.

i don't even remember where it was located, lol. i think b4 it was named bongos it was a lady's name that started with an 'L'. anyway that place was cool, it always had a band playing called mango punch.

ahhhh yes, good times..good times, lol.

[TheNiche]

I'm not sure about Washington being the "new Midtown", there is a different dynamic there, but I do think a few clubs can do well that could work well off each other.

Midtown is still quite vibrant due to it's growing population of people that can simply walk to some of the bars there. On Washington, the population isn't as dense (so to speak) and again, some bars would likely do better.

Major bar scenes don't need a large residential population within walking distance to be successful; if they did, then downtown would never have worked. They are a regional draw, and driving isn't a limiting factor insofar as the distances are reasonable. One aspect that may be a limiting factor is being within too close proximity to a public school, where new liquor licenses aren't issued. With that in mind, Downtown, Midtown, the East Downtown Warehouse District, Washington Ave., the TMC area, and perhaps parts of Navigation become strong inner loop contenders. Many other places may have problems creating a critical mass.

[worldlyman]

My wife and I had dinner at the Spindletop while I was in Houston July 28-30, 2007.

Houston is such an ever-evolving place, and that's what makes it so wonderful.

Downtown is certainly not the hot nocturnal region of 1999-2001 that it once was with Prague, Jones Bar and all that other s--t; it's not even the place it was in 2004...but it was pretty damn busy when we drove around down Travis and back out Main. Interesting how they don't close off Main on weekend nights anymore.

The demographics have changed. That's for sure. But it was FAR from dead on a Saturday night.

It reminds me of Shepherd Plaza when upscale whitebread nightlife went downtown in 1998 and the replacement clientele were Afrian-American. Hell, even though the demographic changed, I still chilled and drank margaritas at Cabos with all the black folks. So freaking what?

I say let taste and attention-span determine what clubs stay open on Main Street. There were still people of other color, including some Caucasians, wandering about going to places like Sambuca. I guess some people scream panic when black folks dominate an entertainment area.

At some low-grade country and western dives I've been to, there were certainly a few trouble makers but most were there to have fun. Likewise, there are certainly trouble makers in downtown Houston but most are there to have fun. That's what I sensed in my excursion in downtown Houston one night in July 29, 2007. But let's get real, those environments will always have an element of danger, no matter how touristy or "upscale." I remember an anecdote how a guy got mugged really bad at whitebread GasLamp in San Diego back in 2003!

Good ol' Sunset Strip is still whitebread yet LA is supposed to be "hip" and most socially advanced or something. Going back to the Roaring 20s then onto the days of Motley Crue and the current celebrity fluff of today...the Sunset Strip is as predominantly whitebread as it gets (as I've noticed from my favorite perch at the Hollywood Hustler taking it in). Will the 'Strip in Hollywood ever cater to a predominantly Latino and African-American clientele the way nocturnal downtown Houston currently does when it once catered to mostly Caucasian Hollywood/South Beach- style crowds? In a supposedly unhip city like Houston, scenes shift faster than the Texas weather patterns. Interesting contrast.

The Midtown Houston scene is burgeoning, new bars and clubs with the birthday wrapping still on...yeah, demographics change. The crowds that probably once did Mint, Prague, Spy, Jones and the like back in the day probably settled on latter day home entertainment systems or laid back wine bars or Sam's Boat in Sugarland. But that's where the new scene is apparently. But Houston seemed to be full action...downtown, Midtown through to Montrose and the Village...

It will be interesting to see what the Houston Pavilions will bring to downtown.

[jmancuso]

i don't think race is (or was) an issue downtown but rather the type of people who hung out down there. the time i went (a few years ago) it was very "thuggish" and that's going to be a turn-off to just about everyone; white, black, asian or hispanic.