Say Goodbye to Europe

[nmm]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe

By MICHAEL FREUND

If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.

That, at least, is the unpleasant, yet entirely unavoidable conclusion to be drawn from Europe's headlong demographic drive toward oblivion.

Think I'm exaggerating? Consider a few cold hard facts.

According to a recent report by the Rand Corporation, "Across Europe, birth rates are falling and family sizes are shrinking. The total fertility rate is now less than two children per woman in every member nation in the European Union."

----------------------

What do you all think?

I know that France's second biggest city, Marseilles, is 30% Muslim.

However, i think this article is a bit reactionary. In a continent with a population of roughly 825,000,000 twenty million isnt all that much.

On the other hand, the Paris Riots do show you how a minority can affect the majority.

Whats your go?

[dalparadise]

I blame soccer for this.

[Montrose1100]

I think the muslims in Europe are not as 'hardcore' as the ones in say... Saudi Arabia? The immigrants have found a new home in new countries, eventually a loyalty and personal connection could develope in their hearts to their new home country. We shouldn't think of it as "Muslims taking over", thats ridiculous.

They are not evil people, this article sterotypes pretty bad. And whos to say Europe will totally change? Its not like these trends are permanent.

And if worse comes to worse, maybe they'll (the muslims) let them (the french) have reservations, and the little french communities could survive off of Casinos.

[Houstonian in Iraq]

I think the muslims in Europe are not as 'hardcore' as the ones in say... Saudi Arabia? The immigrants have found a new home in new countries, eventually a loyalty and personal connection could develope in their hearts to their new home country. We shouldn't think of it as "Muslims taking over", thats ridiculous.

They are not evil people, this article sterotypes pretty bad. And whos to say Europe will totally change? Its not like these trends are permanent.

And if worse comes to worse, maybe they'll (the muslims) let them (the french) have reservations, and the little french communities could survive off of Casinos.

I live in a mostly Muslim neighborhood. And no they are not evil most are law abiding citizens just like any demographic. But like in the US they are changing many neighborhood and towns. Unlike the US they are doing this fast(at least much faster than home). Something that's being done is the children that are born and raised here(UK) usually end up marrying a foreign born person and bringing over entire families with them at record rates. At the same time Europe's "traditional" families are dwendleing at least one or two kids if any compared to the traditional large muslim families of an average 3-6 kids or more.

As for hardcore, a lot of them do become Westernised. The same would also go for what's going on in the mid east(from what I have seen). Hardcore fundalmentalism I believe is very much present in both places.

Note: Didn't have time to read article or spell check

[mrfootball]

Scary to think that its happening over there too. Disconcerting if you're white. When that's gone (it'll happen here even faster), what corner of the world will caucasions call home? You simply don't find racial melting pots anywhere else in the world aside from the so-called formerly "white" nations (USA, Western Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc), which don't make up a relatively small percentage of the total world population. Every race has 'their' part of the world to go back to which is neither diverse or welcoming to other cultures...everyone but whitey (evidently).

America hasn't protected its borders, nor has it protected the integrity of the nation. It's been downhill ever since the 1960's when they changed our Immigration laws from accepting people who reflected the US Population (USA was 90% white back then) to a policy that placed a preference on 3rd world immigration. Of course since then, violent crime skyrocketed, the public schools went to crap, and taxes and public assistance has ballooned to unimagineable levels. It will all collapse on itself somewhere down the road.

Reproductive suicide for the civilized world.

[nmainguy]

Scary to think that its happening over there too. Disconcerting if you're white. When that's gone (it'll happen here even faster), what corner of the world will caucasions call home?

At present the entire western hemisphere is overwhelmingly caucasian. Now since you seem to be confusing "white" with "caucasian" it's a little confusing what your real fear is. Are you afraid the chain of 43 consecutive caucasian christian male Presidents is about to break? Perhaps you're afraid most of the Forune 500 companies-overwhelmingly controlled by caucasian males is a about to go third world? What's your fear? Maybe you're just xenophobic and don't know it? In any event, you seem thouroughly confused.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I blame soccer for this.

GGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!! > (deep breath) >

GGGGGGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLL

LLLLLLL!!!!!!! >

Not finished yet.

GOLAZO, GOLAZO, GOLAZO!! GOOOOALLLL, GOOOOOALLL, GOOOOOAALLL, GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....

What do you all think?

I know that France's second biggest city, Marseilles, is 30% Muslim.

I see a major contrast between European Muslim and Arab Muslim. European Muslims seem more democratic and open to free speech. First place I think of is that one chick in the Netherlands Parliament (the first Muslim woman to be elected there). There seems to be open debate on religious issues throughout Europe. Is that accurate?

[VicMan]

I wonder how the people at the City Data Forums will react to this? I notice that a lot of people there are staunchly against illegal immigration in the United States. I wonder if the same people will react in a negative manner to the developments in Europe.

[editor]

Link doesn't work.

Try this one: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

[editor]

If that article is correct, it means the beaches of the south of France will no longer be covered with topless women sunbathing.

Instead, they'll be wearing a Burquini!

[nmm]

This reminds me of the lecture a Professor gave me on reverse coloniation.

mrfootball, the predominantely Caucasion (Whiteys) race took over 4 continents, destroyed more then 6 empires, and abuse two continents for its own economic benefit for about 400 years. So i really wouldnt be whining. Anyways it isnt like the Iroquis Federation issued "Visas" to the European Colonists.

Anyways, reverse colonization is where the previously colonized nations most closely identify with their colonizers. As an example, the African nations of Senegal and Algeria speak French instead of their native cultural language. So they try to move to France. They have more kids then French people. In the end, it is the colonized who end up "reverse colonizing" the colonizers. The end.

[TheNiche]

Reproductive suicide for the civilized world.

Jeez man, what are you trying to do to me? You made me agree with nmainguy!

Seriously, the issue for which there is a reasonable debate has absolutely nothing to do with race and everything to do with labor economics (and for those that care, culture).

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I am thoroughly convinced that the rising tide of anti-Israeli and the hatred of jews thats occuring in western European nations is due large in part to the rise of the Muslim population. I frequet Europe probably more than anyone on this board and i have personally noticed patterns and changes. The non Muslim Europeans and old families-meaning non immigrants- remember WW2 and are not so quick to be anti-Israel and anti jewish.

[RedScare]

Scary to think that its happening over there too. Disconcerting if you're white. When that's gone (it'll happen here even faster), what corner of the world will caucasions call home?

Lubbock.

[nmainguy]

Lubbock.

[TheNiche]

I am thoroughly convinced that the rising tide of anti-Israeli and the hatred of jews thats occuring in western European nations is due large in part to the rise of the Muslim population. I frequet Europe probably more than anyone on this board and i have personally noticed patterns and changes. The non Muslim Europeans and old families-meaning non immigrants- remember WW2 and are not so quick to be anti-Israel and anti jewish.

It might also just be part of generational change. The generations that were more closely connected with the atrocities of WW2 feel compelled to do anything possible to make up for the ravaged Jewish people. But even among native Europeans, particularly the younger crowd, surely there must be a realization that Isreal has not exactly been the best political ally and that it makes for a terrible protagonist. Isreal is a heavy burden, one that has been promoted by the West only out of feelings of guilt, with very little regard for the well-being of the native populations.

If a profusion of apology to one people causes another people insult, has anything been accomplished except to mix the recipe for warfare?

That is my perspective.

[Montrose1100]

Russia's exploding Muslim population

Tue, 01/16/2007 - 5:49pm.

Ready for Russia's very own Oriana Fallacis and Jean LePens? If population trends continue at the current rate, Muslims could outnumber ethnic Russians in 30 years, al-Jazeera reports. More Russians are dying each year than being born, due in large measure to the popularity of abortion (Russian women had almost 13 abortions for every 10 live births in 2003), alcohol, and suicide.

Meanwhile, Russia's Muslim population has grown by 40 percent since 1989, the result of a high birth rate and continued immigration from the North Caucasus and Central Asia. There are now 25 million Muslims in Russia, and they are projected to become one-fifth of the country’s overall population by 2020. Predictably, the usual suspects are speaking up:

MORE:

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/3108

I hope your joking, this is just getting stupid. "Due to the popularity of abortion, alcohol, and suicide." and how can you have 13 abortions for 10 births? Stop posting this crap.

[Jeebus]

I hope your joking, this is just getting stupid. "Due to the popularity of abortion, alcohol, and suicide." and how can you have 13 abortions for 10 births? Stop posting this crap.

You should at least google something before you call it crap: Article Supporting NMM's Post

You ask how you can have 13 abortions for every 10 births? Simple. Out of 23 women who are pregnant, only 10 give birth while the other 13 have abortions. Thus: 13 abortions for every 10 births.

Pretty simple when you think about it.

[nmm]

Well. heres Mr Daniel Pipes.

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/495

original

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F8C...6F05B98BE23.htm

The way you have 13 abortions for every 10 LIVE births: 10 + 13 = 23. 13/23 are abortions. 10/23 are LIVE births. Understand now?

More:

http://www.asiantribune.com/index.php?q=node/211

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...MNGJGMFUVG1.DTL

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...752C0A966958260

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5056672.stm

[Montrose1100]

If population trends continue at the current rate

Theres the problem, population trends are not continous.

[Pumapayam]

They are not evil people, this article sterotypes pretty bad.

I agree, I (being muslim) am not a bad person!

[Montrose1100]

I agree, I (being muslim) am not a bad person!

No Puma, you are a bad person, but its not because your muslim.

[zaphod]

well you would guess by moving to europe they would turn into europeans.

it figures that al jazeera would blame europe's declining population on abortion, alcohol, and suicide. Im surprised they didn't blame eating undercooked pork as well sure those may be the statistical facts, but the root of the matter is that it has everything to do with affluence and being more contemporary and liberal

[krix]

Let me chime in as someone who is actually from Western Europe:

There is a lot of hysterical hype about the purported imminent Muslim takeover of Europe, especially by Americans and Israelis. Yes, the Muslim populations have been rising in certain European countries, especially France and the UK, but also Germany. And of course there are a lot of social problems, need I mention the suburb riots in France, or the growing tension in Britain, or the debate in the Netherlands... However, as you can see very well in the immigrant country America is, the more immigrants advance in their adopted country, the more of the values and goals they adopt from their adopted country. And with rising affluence, birth rates will sink as well. I think Europe needs to be more afraid of refugee waves from Africa rather than their home-grown Muslim populations.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Let me chime in as someone who is actually from Western Europe:

There is a lot of hysterical hype about the purported imminent Muslim takeover of Europe, especially by Americans and Israelis. Yes, the Muslim populations have been rising in certain European countries, especially France and the UK, but also Germany. And of course there are a lot of social problems, need I mention the suburb riots in France, or the growing tension in Britain, or the debate in the Netherlands... However, as you can see very well in the immigrant country America is, the more immigrants advance in their adopted country, the more of the values and goals they adopt from their adopted country. And with rising affluence, birth rates will sink as well. I think Europe needs to be more afraid of refugee waves from Africa rather than their home-grown Muslim populations.

Are you sure about this?

Standards of assimilation in the EU are very low for the most part. If im going to move to a different country to live there, its only right for me to assimilate that great society that is currently in place which attracted me in the first place---that is, if my goal was for a better life. A better life in said country that i immigrated too.

I dont think wealth has anything to do with it. The Saudi nationals that have a hand in a lot of the unnecessary drama thats occuring in the EU have more money than you can count. The homegrown Muslim populations, as you put it, are a strong key for others from Africa or the MidEast to enter the EU nations. The new wave is far different than the previous. But who knows, that just may be a lie being told by Americans and Israelis.

Turning a blind eye to cultural differences that are not in line with existing way of life is nothing short of destruction.

[krix]

Are you sure about this?

Standards of assimilation in the EU are very low for the most part. If im going to move to a different country to live there, its only right for me to assimilate that great society that is currently in place which attracted me in the first place---that is, if my goal was for a better life. A better life in said country that i immigrated too.

I dont think wealth has anything to do with it. The Saudi nationals that have a hand in a lot of the unnecessary drama thats occuring in the EU have more money than you can count. The homegrown Muslim populations, as you put it, are a strong key for others from Africa or the MidEast to enter the EU nations. The new wave is far different than the previous. But who knows, that just may be a lie being told by Americans and Israelis.

Turning a blind eye to cultural differences that are not in line with existing way of life is nothing short of destruction.

easy there. I was talking about "hype", not "lies" (I feel like this is right out of this book "Europeans are from Venus, Americans are from Mars" :closedeyes: )

I was talking about general tendencies. The Saudis are exploiting certain social problems the Muslim immigrants experience in some European countries, and of course it is imperative to counter this by giving immigrants better opportunities to succeed in their adopted societies (this is one of the reasons of the French riots). And you may be right that Europe shouldn't be too complacent, but even the most extreme European country in this regard, the Netherlands, is changing now. European societies are trying to find the right balance between the conservatives demanding complete assimilation and the liberals advocating a multiculturalism that condones any set of behaviors in the name of tolerance. I find your last sentence rather disturbing, because hasn't America tried to offer a place for people with a lot of cultural differences. (and if you look at Muslim immigrants to America, you'll see that they are following more or less the same American dream as countless immigrants before them).

[houstonmacbro]

What do you all think?

Personally, I think it will be a good thing for more 'minorities' to be a part of the world everywhere ... I think people will have to learn to interact with one another and not be so culturally or racially or religiously closed-minded.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Personally, I think it will be a good thing for more 'minorities' to be a part of the world everywhere ... I think people will have to learn to interact with one another and not be so culturally or racially or religiously closed-minded.

That only has a chance of happening in Hollywood movies and in the minds of the profoundly retarded.

[VicMan]

Personally, I think it will be a good thing for more 'minorities' to be a part of the world everywhere ... I think people will have to learn to interact with one another and not be so culturally or racially or religiously closed-minded.

That only has a chance of happening in Hollywood movies and in the minds of the profoundly retarded.

Happens all the time in Houston

[houstonmacbro]

Happens all the time in Houston

Same thing I was thinking. Outside of a few knuckleheads and xenophobes, all the hundreds of ethnicities and religions live pretty much in harmony in Houston. Hey, maybe that's a motto we could get the tourism board to adopt.