Lakewood Church At 3700 Southwest Fwy.

[Gary]

As growing up catholic, when ever a priest would talk about money he would get hit hard the next week when attendance would drop.  No ever wants to hear a religious figure talk about how they need money.

I have watched one or two of lakewoods televised sermons.  They aren't that bad, but I personally taken what I have learn from 13 years of religious education to live my life now.  I really don't believe in organized religion, but i have great respect for religious leaders.

People such as Pope John Paull II and Mother Theresa are the best examples.

As a gay man with catholic upbringing, my alliegences seem split, but i truly believe i can be of a conservative mind and moral values  and be able to live my life with my partner.  Christianity isn't right wing or antigay, the organizations are.  Some Christian organizations are full blown left wing liberals too.  Look at gay christian churches.  Look at Hillary Clinton who's mentor was a hardline Methodist preacher who shape most of her views as of today.

As for Lakewood taking over the Summit (and/or Compaq), I say go for it.  The place would have remained unused if some didn't take over it.  And if it is true that they are leasing it and not have bought it, then in the future they may move or not exist and the updated facility will be available again.

I heard that the church will lease the facility for when they are not using to businesses and other uses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm now going against my initial rebuttle to this subject but I must just out of curiosity.

Before I ask this question please understand that it's ot meant to be quaresome at all, again just curious.

Ok, in regards to the Christian church not being against Homosexuality how do you get past scriptures like I Corinthians 6:9-10? I've always understood the church to be against homosexuality not against the homosexual.

[ricco67]

Gary sez:

Ok, in regards to the Christian church not being against Homosexuality how do you get past scriptures like I Corinthians 6:9-10? I've always understood the church to be against homosexuality not against the homosexual.

Interesting.

That's like enjoying pizza but you can't stand the sauce.

Gary and TP;

Both of your viewpoints are valid and bring up very good points.

As an agnostic catholic (go fig) I find Joel's speeches very inspirational and logical without patronizing the members. That's rare in quite a few programs I have watched (albiet briefly).

In regards to his right wing stance, I have noticed it, but he does it in such a subtle way as to not to offend people. Diplomacy is an attribute that few preachers seem to do well.

Ricco

[Gary]

Gary sez:

Interesting.

That's like enjoying pizza but you can't stand the sauce.

Gary and TP;

Both of your viewpoints are valid and bring up very good points.

As an agnostic catholic (go fig) I find Joel's speeches very inspirational and logical without patronizing the members.  That's rare in quite a few programs I have watched (albiet briefly).

In regards to his right wing stance, I have noticed it, but he does it in such a subtle way as to not to offend people.  Diplomacy is an attribute that few preachers seem to do well.

Ricco

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Point taken. Although I grew up a Christian and do belive the teachings of the Bible, I don't really practice my faith nor do I attend any church. I guess my problem with Osteen is that his message is always positive with nothing negative and if you follow the teachings of the Bible there is plenty of negatives.

Don't get me wrong I do see the other side as well being negative all the time. I know of one church in particular that beat the crap out of people, and to the point that many left the church and the faith. I guess there is two sides to this.

Personaly I prefer the positive like you. It seems to motivate me to be a better Christian. By the way my regards to you in refernce to the Popes immenant death. Hopefully the church will appoint someone as upstanding as John Paul II.

[kjb434]

I'm now going against my initial rebuttle to this subject but I m just just out of curiosity.

Before I ask this question please understand that it's ot meant to be quaresome at all, again just curious.

Ok, in regards to the Christian church not being against Homosexuality how do you get past scriptures like I Corinthians 6:9-10? I've always understood the church to be against homosexuality not against the homosexual.

The main thing you have to notice is that I grew Catholic. The Catholic church does not preach that the Bible is a book of true statements. The Bible is a book of truths. It is a big difference. A good example is "It doesn't really matter is Jesus walked on water or changed water into wine." The message in these stories is what is important, not whether or not it really happened. I know I'll get some responses on this, but this is the official Catholic stance. This is why you don't have many Catholics running around with Bibles in their hands and quoting lines. We don't even do Bible study because we believe that is a waste of time. Memorizing lines from a book doesn't help you grow spiritually in the world. It's the acts you perform and how you go about your daily life. This doesn't mean the Bible is useless, but it is just another tool is teaching a message. No where near a history book. Archeologists have found many things in the Bible that are truy and many things that are not. And just because some proves something in the Bible is wrong doesn't mean that the Bible isn't useful. Whether or not that story is true isn't important, but what was the message in the story.

Many people look towards the book of Leviticus to say that Christianity is not in agreement with homosexuals. This section of Leviticus goes through a long list of things you should not do and you may be allowed to do. If Christians use this line to support their arguement, the must also agree with the selling of their daughters in slavery and a host of other ridiculous laws.

The new testament has several lines that people point too also to show that homosexuality is wrong. Many of these are rooted into the Jewish culture and are not necessarily the words of God himself or Jesus. Yes, the Bible is and inspired work of God through the writers, but the writers are still human. Literary historians have found different books pull together cultural aspects of the society and time they were written and shown that the books reflect of lot of it. The book of Revelations contains tons of what is termed as Apocolyptic Literature which is full of symbols and cofusing language, but this is what you expect of a book written when Christians were being heavily persecuted and any writings and or talking of this new faith would have you killed within Rome.

Being from a Catholic background, it is not hard for me to be a Christian and gay. Most of the anti-gay aspects is from the orginization and not the faith. Two different things. The foundation of the Catholic church (31 or 33 infalible statements) have nothing to do with homesexuality or anything sexual. These are articles of faith and what cannot change. Everything else in the Catholic church has the ability to be changed. It make take a very long time, but it can change. Wome will be priests one day. Gays will be accepted. It's just not now. Remember, for years after astronomers such as Galileo and Copernicus found that the earth was round and eventually was not in the center of the universe; the Catholic church didn't accepted it. It took them years to accept this bold concept. It is a ver slow moving organization. They don't want to be wrong about something.

Many theologians work over scripture and historical writings from centuries past to work out the gay issue, women being priest, etc. The women being priest I think will be the next big thing to happen.

The stance of hate the sin and not the sinner is the Catholic Church's current position, but it is no an infalible one. It can change. Their stance is in the position that sexual acts is for love and children. Not just for pleasure. Since homosexual acts cannot bring about children it is wrong. That is just there stance. A lot of Catholics disagree with it because the like to have sex that doesn't bring about children. Church may change it's position, but it'll take many years them to reach the conclusion. It is rare for it to make a knee-jerk reaction.

Back to the Lakewood Church. I think the sucess of this ministry is do to the positive message. Joel Osteen avoids the concept of a vengeful God which I like. He doesn't seem to accept the concept that this God of love will damn people to hell. This position actually is the same as Catholiscism. The person walks into hell, God doesn't put him their. If you die and when God lays before you heaven and asks you if you want to reject it by not asking for forgiveness for sins, I think it will be really hard to say no. I don't think many people are in hell, I think they realize what they've done is completely wrong after death and are confront by God. After all, Hell is just the abscence of a loving God. That in itself would be torture. The fire concept is just something to scare people. Just like Joel's book, he wants you to live your Best Life Now.

[ricco67]

27,

Then at least you got your bases covered.

Ricco

[kjb434]

I often think about reality of a God also. It doesn't hurt me to believe in him and it doesn't hurt anyone else.

It is just hard for me to think that this is all just here by chance. And thats after having a roomate who was finishing his masters in quatum physics. This studies the absolute basic elements of our existinence. After seeing some of this stuff, it is hard for me to believe anything else. How about that, science enforcing my faith in God.

[Subdude]

How about that, science enforcing my faith in God.

It's probably more common than you would think. There is even an award called the Templeton Prize that is given for scientific advances with spiritual objectives. It was just given to a scientist called Charles Townes for advocating convergence of science and religion.

[ssullivan]

Very well put kjb434. After reading Gary's post on I Corinthians I was going to respond but you basically said everything I would have.

I think it's important to realize that not all people who claim to follow a certain religion interpret scripture the same way or believe exactly the same things. I was raised in the United Methodist Church and have very similar beliefs about the role the Bible plays in religion as you do. Of course I'm pretty liberal even for a Methodist.

tw2ntyse7en, I struggle with that "Is there really a God?" question myself. I'd say overall I believe there is. And I think I'd rather err on the side of believing in something that doesn't exist than not believing in something that does. But I think it's a very human issue that everyone struggles with to a certain extent. And personally I'd rather be a thinking person who struggles with that issue and comes to my own conclusion based on my own study and examination, than a person who always blindly accepts what I am told by a preacher or other religious leader without ever questioning it.

As for Lakewood taking over the Compaq Center, I've got no issue with it. Mega churches aren't really my style; I prefer a somewhat smaller congregation with membership in the hundreds, not thousands, but that's just my style. I think as long as Lakewood doesn't turn into another corrupt organization like those run by some of the big evangelists of the 1980s and 1990s, there's nothing wrong with it. And I'd certainly rather see Lakewood in that building than see it sit empty.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Since Lakewood's moving to Compaq Center, what will they do with the current location? Has Lakewood said anything yet?

[GovernorAggie]

For now they're keeping it, and may still have some very smaller scale things there--if you'll notice, the new place is called Lakewood Church-Central, giving me the impression that the current place wil serve some reduced purpose.

[ninjacop]

For now they're keeping it, and may still have some very smaller scale things there--if you'll notice, the new place is called Lakewood Church-Central, giving me the impression that the current place wil serve some reduced purpose.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

could be converted to a college.

[DJ V Lawrence]

could be converted to a college.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lakewood Community College!

[RedScare]

Well, here it comes. The Compaq Oasis of Love will open in all of its oppulent glory, next Saturday.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3259128

For those who are members, enjoy your new crib. For those of us who are not, don't drive near 59 and Buffalo Speedway next weekend. Traffic will likely be a killer until the new residents figure out where the parking is.

[MidtownCoog]

The road to Heaven is paved with money!

[RedScare]

$95 Million, to be exact.

[groovehouse]

Do you think they will do 'the wave' on Sundays?

[sevfiv]

from the webpage of the church, it says they're opening the doors on july 16th - five days from now.

out of the corner of my eye while flying by on the freeway, i noticed they put up the new sign, but it still didn't look "done."

has anyone been by there really recently? does it look ready for the grand opening now?

also, how is the immense (i'm assuming - 28,000 attendees) traffic going to affect the area this weekend and the weekends to come?

[kjb434]

Well,

sundays are fairly dead in the area anyway. The only time there was traffic there on the weekend was if there a sports game or concert. It usually wasn't bad then anyway. Richmond Rd and the cops keep everything moving smoothly.

[RedScare]

Supposedly, it will seat 16,000, just like Compaq did for basketball. Still, not something you want to drive through the middle of. However, they think they are going to have 100,000 per weekend there eventually, and they have 30,000 now, so you're talking filling up and emptying that place up to 6 times.

That could become a nightmare around there.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Supposedly, it will seat 16,000, just like Compaq did for basketball.  Still, not something you want to drive through the middle of.  However, they think they are going to have 100,000 per weekend there eventually, and they have 30,000 now, so you're talking filling up and emptying that place up to 6 times.

That could become a nightmare around there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, Richmond Strip partly became a popular street because of it being a great place to party aftre Rocket Games.

You think maybe the Lakewood Church patrons will bring more vibrance to the Galleria Area?

Also, if anyone has pics of the new building from inside, hook us up :-)

Congratulations, Lakewood!

[MidtownCoog]

Freaky

Someboady gots to lead the sheeple.

[sevfiv]

i am not sure about the whole lakewood churchfolk=vibrance thingy

You think maybe the Lakewood Church patrons will bring more vibrance to the Galleria Area?

[MidtownCoog]

Just saw on the local news that 17,000 people showed up in Cali to see the preacher.

Maybe The Summit Oasis of Love will attract tourists ;-)

[Subdude]

This topic was reported by a forum member because certain posts appeared to be ridiculing religion, and one religion in particular. As a result, these posts have been deleted.

Please keep the discussion on the church, not religion, and especially not anything that could be interpreted as religion-bashing.

[MidtownCoog]

Oy vey!

Fu Lor was a Chineese buffet near Compaq Center on the corner of Weslyan.

They closed down due to lack of weekend business.

They could print money with this new church.

Could you please introduce this sensitive member to the "Message" feature? Isn't that what it was designed for?

They could PM me directly.

Sorry they don't get down Richmond much.

And FWIW, Lakewood is non-demoninational, right?

So what religion are they?

[sevfiv]

Oy vey!

Fu Lor was a Chineese buffet near Compaq Center on the corner of Weslyan.

They closed down due to lack of weekend business.

They could print money with this new church.

i KNEW there was another post missing - of which was talking about a buffet and not demeaning religion

[jmancuso]

subdue beat me to it. now he has to buy the beer.

[sevfiv]

They could print money with this new church.

And FWIW, Lakewood is non-demoninational, right?

So what religion are they?

i perused their site, and nothing - i couldn't find a thing about denomination - but if you have a gazillion people coming to one service, it probably will be geared at everyone...

and yeah they could totally mint!

[Subdude]

Believe me, the member is pretty level-headed, not "sensitive", so it's a safe bet that if he were offended, then other members and guests would be as well. It isn't a one-on-one issue, so reporting it was the right thing to do.

One more time: keep it off of discussing the qualities of specific religions.

[MidtownCoog]

Will do. But if you have nothing to hide, it should all be fair game (in Way-Off Topic, at least).

There is a saying about all the new mega-churches:

"The road to heaven is paved with money."

You can't spend $40 mil without it.