The Woodlands May Be Headed For Self-Government

[lockmat]

Well the biggest fact is without Houston there never would have been The Woodlands.

I don't even know why there is argument over this.

To me, it's stating the obvious.

[MidtownCoog]

They owe us their soul.

The Woodlands = Faust.

Time to pay up.

[nmainguy]

Check this recent article from the Chronicle. In it, they're noting how The Woodlands is becoming more diverse. And they note how The Woodlands is slightly more diverse than Montgomery County as a whole (90.5% white for The Woodlands, and apparently decreasing, versus 92.9% white for Montgomery County as a whole). Here's the link:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/woo...ws/4354138.html

I can think of one good reason not to annex The Woodlands: the introduction of thousands of Republicans who would add to the vote to deny me the same rights they have. It's bad enough to be subjected to second-class citizenship while adding even more to the straight population which holds special rights not afforded to me.

On the other hand I can think of so many good reasons to annex their business tax base-which LOVES my money-and leave the residential alone until it's more advantagous for the city as a whole.

[MidtownCoog]

crikey! here comes the homosexual agenda ;-)

[nmainguy]

crikey! here comes the homosexual agenda ;-)

Hey Coog, I'll ask one more time: could you send me a copy of the "Homosexual Agenda?" You seem to be the only one who's up on it. I'm assuming you're the recording secretary?

[MidtownCoog]

I remember you asking, and that's why I am messing with you.

The Woodlands owes us.

[nmainguy]

I remember you asking, and that's why I am messing with you.

The Woodlands owes us.

Of course they owe us. They'd be zip without us. I'm just looking for a copy of this elusive "Homosexual Agenda."

[SpringTX]

If The Woodlands had been part of the city of Houston from its beginning back in the 1970's when it started, it would be one of those nice "what might have been" stories where people shake their head and sigh. Like Galveston before the storm.

Mayor White is smart; The Woodlands will gladly pay $45 million tribute to keep itself alive. The alternative is to let Houston kill it. Listen to what Kingwood residents say about life after annexation.

The Woodlands is someplace that people in Austin and Dallas know about. And envy. It's one of the few hip things about Houston's residential communities.

The Woodlands could change the world. Someday suburbs all around the country could be doing the things The Woodlands has been doing since the 1970's. I could easily see The Woodlands being named to the National Register of Historic Places someday. Or a World Heritage Site with enough time. Communities like The Woodlands don't happen every day.

[TheNiche]

The Woodlands could change the world. Someday suburbs all around the country could be doing the things The Woodlands has been doing since the 1970's. I could easily see The Woodlands being named to the National Register of Historic Places someday.

You know, I've always thought that that might happen. I know it'll piss off the urbanistas, but The Woodlands will one day be as treasured as the Heights...if not moreso. After all, their deed restrictions might just hold.

Of course, one can't help but wonder whether The Woodlands might also be susceptible to urban decay or future McMansionization...

[lockmat]

If The Woodlands had been part of the city of Houston from its beginning back in the 1970's when it started, it would be one of those nice "what might have been" stories where people shake their head and sigh. Like Galveston before the storm.

Mayor White is smart; The Woodlands will gladly pay $45 million tribute to keep itself alive. The alternative is to let Houston kill it. Listen to what Kingwood residents say about life after annexation.

The Woodlands is someplace that people in Austin and Dallas know about. And envy. It's one of the few hip things about Houston's residential communities.

The Woodlands could change the world. Someday suburbs all around the country could be doing the things The Woodlands has been doing since the 1970's. I could easily see The Woodlands being named to the National Register of Historic Places someday. Or a World Heritage Site with enough time. Communities like The Woodlands don't happen every day.

Those are some ambitous statements right there about The Woodlands.

I don't know if you're right about everyone envying The Woodlands, you may be, but I do know that when I talk to anyone not from Houston or Texas but they have a clue, I say The Woodlands and they know exactly what I'm talking about. Not that it means anything, I'm just sayin

You know, I've always thought that that might happen. I know it'll piss off the urbanistas, but The Woodlands will one day be as treasured as the Heights...if not moreso. After all, their deed restrictions might just hold.

Of course, one can't help but wonder whether The Woodlands might also be susceptible to urban decay or future McMansionization...

My question is, with The Woodlands still growing (I don't know how much more land they have to use), how are they going to control their traffic better? It's aleady getting bad enough. Does anyone know what plans they have about it, if any?

[Guest Marty]

My dad surveyed The Woodlands in the late 1960's, i think the City of Houston installed the storm drains on the roads like they did in my neighborhood in 1970.

[TheNiche]

My question is, with The Woodlands still growing (I don't know how much more land they have to use), how are they going to control their traffic better? It's aleady getting bad enough. Does anyone know what plans they have about it, if any?

The Woodlands is still growing and has acquired between 6,000 and 7,000 acres (of which only about half is developable, I think) for expansion. What isn't developable will be contributed to park space and natural reserves.

Montgomery County recently passed a bond issue in a referendum that will allow for some major upgrades to thoroughfares in and around The Woodlands and Conroe. If memory serves, I think that they'll add a flyover at FM 1488, among several other projects.

I suspect that this will be the solution to future traffic issues. As things continue to get worse (and it will), either the taxpayers will decide whether the remedy is worth it by county-wide referendum or The Woodlands will become incorporated and will have to provide for itself as do all other cities.

[rantanamo]

The Woodlands is someplace that people in Austin and Dallas know about. And envy. It's one of the few hip things about Houston's residential communities.

No. The Woodlands is the latest smaller example of Plano, Frisco, Irving, Richardson, Arlington that suck the life out of the main city by having more sales tax cap to offer corporate tax incentives to corporations looking for cheap new homes. Slap a mall or two, an urban center or two and a large corporate base like Irving or Plano and you're now the ruination of a region and a major component of sprawl and traffic encouragement. Then, when the next, hot Plano comes along next door, ie Frisco, and sucks the life out you, you start the rallying cry for regional cooperation and raising sales tax caps. There's right now a huge movement in the metroplex to raise the state sales tax cap to bring in more services like rail. The Irvings and Planos of the world are wanting things done faster for competition's sake vs the new big Burbs like Frisco, McKinney and new Metroplex corporate player Westlake. This is what Houston should not allow for the health of your region and city.

[lockmat]

The Woodlands is still growing and has acquired between 6,000 and 7,000 acres (of which only about half is developable, I think) for expansion. What isn't developable will be contributed to park space and natural reserves.

Montgomery County recently passed a bond issue in a referendum that will allow for some major upgrades to thoroughfares in and around The Woodlands and Conroe. If memory serves, I think that they'll add a flyover at FM 1488, among several other projects.

I suspect that this will be the solution to future traffic issues. As things continue to get worse (and it will), either the taxpayers will decide whether the remedy is worth it by county-wide referendum or The Woodlands will become incorporated and will have to provide for itself as do all other cities.

Niche, you're clutch.

But I'm kinda dumb you see, and don't always know technical terms. thoroughfares? what exactly is that? And a flyover, that's basically just a bridge, right?

Exposing ignorance can suck; whatever

[Mark F. Barnes]

Niche, you're clutch.

But I'm kinda dumb you see, and don't always know technical terms. thoroughfares? what exactly is that? And a flyover, that's basically just a bridge, right?

Exposing ignorance can suck; whatever

thor

[SpringTX]

("Of course, one can't help but wonder whether The Woodlands might also be susceptible to urban decay or future McMansionization... ")

Yes, it will. The 2 older villages in The Woodlands are nearing 30 years old. And much of that housing built back then was more modest than the homes they've built since then. They hardly command more than $100K now. Some of them are being converted to rental units. There even was a story in the news recently about a drug bust at one of the smaller, older homes - apparently it was a crack house of sorts. Are we talking about tear-downs yet? Not yet, because there's way too much space. But once all of The Woodlands and surrounding areas are pretty much filled in in the next 10 years, tear-downs might make a lot of sense in some of the older parts of The Woodlands.

("My question is, with The Woodlands still growing (I don't know how much more land they have to use), how are they going to control their traffic better? It's aleady getting bad enough. Does anyone know what plans they have about it, if any?")

Traffic from The Woodlands to the rest of the world has always been good - I-45, Hardy Toll Road, and now the Grand Parkway coming. Traffic within The Woodlands has become steadily worse. They've been dealing with this by extending major roads and widening them, but there is more to do.

[KatieDidIt]

The Woodlands is becoming more diverse and the proof is in the schooling information. When we were researching schools up here three years ago, the school in the area we bought said 98% white. Now the new precentages have come out and its 86% white. The hispanic population is growing like crazy around here. We have several Mexican families that have bought in the neighborhood as a second home so their kids can be safe and learn english.

My main concern is whether CISD is prepared for the strain that a growing ESL program will do on their budget. Will CISD eventually lose the funds to provide daily art, music and PE like HISD did? Granted it will take a while to get to that point, but the shift is happening pretty fast up here.

I appreciate diversity, but I just wish the Nationals wouldn't strain the American school system by depending on them to teach their children english.

[bachanon]

No. The Woodlands is the latest smaller example of Plano, Frisco, Irving, Richardson, Arlington that suck the life out of the main city by having more sales tax cap to offer corporate tax incentives to corporations looking for cheap new homes. Slap a mall or two, an urban center or two and a large corporate base like Irving or Plano and you're now the ruination of a region and a major component of sprawl and traffic encouragement. Then, when the next, hot Plano comes along next door, ie Frisco, and sucks the life out you, you start the rallying cry for regional cooperation and raising sales tax caps. There's right now a huge movement in the metroplex to raise the state sales tax cap to bring in more services like rail. The Irvings and Planos of the world are wanting things done faster for competition's sake vs the new big Burbs like Frisco, McKinney and new Metroplex corporate player Westlake. This is what Houston should not allow for the health of your region and city.

have you visited the woodlands? have you read articles or publications about the woodlands? the woodlands came first, then came the mall and the strip centers. the community based focus was a central theme of the woodlands development. the woodlands has a community based mentality that is quite different from other suburbs and developments. if you don't know about "interfaith" and the constant call to volunteerism and community/environmental activism, you don't know the woodlands. there has always been a spiritual/conscientious component to the original vision of this community. other utopian communities envisioned in the late sixties/early seventies eliminated places for church congregations because they believed religion was divisive. george and cynthia mitchell helped create "interfaith" in order to bring differing faiths together for community/common projects. space was set aside in every village for community centers, retirement communities, assisted living communities and mostly churches and private schools. there are churches comfortably nestled in every village in the woodlands. most churches are somehow connected to interfaith and/or community activism/volunteerism.

i think that plano, frisco, etc. are merely economic creatures. the woodlands is far more than that.

[Mark F. Barnes]

News flash: People don't work for money so that they can save it. They work for money so that they can maximize and optimize their consumption patterns over time; saving/investing it is only a tool to further maximize/optimize consumption patterns.

By the way, the vast majority of homes in The Woodlands are worth far less than a million dollars. And those that do own homes, especially those of high value, are the most likely to not want high tax rates. Taxes would affect them the most directly, and they aren't going to be happy about it. That should be pretty obvious.

The difference in property taxes is hard to peg down because the City of Houston would have to buy out each of many different Woodlands MUDs, all with different tax rates. There would also be a one-cent sales tax to fund METRO services.

I don't think that the property taxes within The Woodlands would increase by any drastic amount. In fact, for several of the newer Woodlands MUDS, the City of Houston may have to take a financial loss for several years before the annexation became profitable.

Niche hit the nail on the head. I do not know where it got started that the "Woodlands" is some sort of vast expanse of million and multi-million dollar homes. There are a few homes like this, but they make up about 3% of the "Woodlands" Most of the people in the "Woodlands" are dual income families, that are living in moderately over-priced, flip-plan homes, that are struggling to "Keep up with the Jones' ". The "Woodlands" is already so far from the original dream of George Mitchell, it's not even funny.

And all these whiners that do nothing but complain on the services in "Woodlands" just really don't know how good they've got it. If you think you'd like Houston amenities better, move to Houston. Houston services are stretched so thin now, do you really think they're going to get any better if you stretch them some more. Fire Departments are undermanned, police departments are undermanned, they can't provide enough coverage for the areas they cover now, sure expand it some more, why not! All I hear about from a lot of the "Woodlands" whiners is all the high crime rate in the "Woodlands"!!!!. When is the last time they had a homicide in the "Woodlands"? You can bet Houston had a few last night and will every night, on top of several carjackings, half dozen armed robberies, and a few minor stabbings, that's high crime. Just because some punk kids, who have no supervision at home, because both their parents have to work all the time to keep up the pretense that they are better off than their bottom line shows; keys your leased Beemer, does not make the crime rate in the "Woodlands" something to always carry on and on and on about. You complain about the Houston element coming into the "Woodlands" and committing crimes, when the majority of the crimes comes from with in. You go to the "Woodlands Mall" and I can't help but laugh out loud at the "Malibu's Most Wanted" I see walking around trying to be "Gangsta." It is totally laughable.

A visual for those that missed this Oscar winner

The "Woodlands" needs to take care of themselves, vote in their own government so they can quit complaining about the Conroe PD not rushing in every time they hear a noise or the Montgomery County EMS taking 20 minutes to show up every time they break an acrylic nail. Become an entity like Bellaire and blame it on yourselves. It's worked out well for Bellaire, and I never read on here of anyone from Bellaire complaining about anything.

[Pumapayam]

My main concern is whether CISD is prepared for the strain that a growing ESL program will do on their budget. Will CISD eventually lose the funds to provide daily art, music and PE like HISD did? Granted it will take a while to get to that point, but the shift is happening pretty fast up here.

I appreciate diversity, but I just wish the Nationals wouldn't strain the American school system by depending on them to teach their children english.

This should not happen because the property taxes increased based on the home values increasing.

Secondly, new homes are still being built, which add to the the property taxes that get collect each year. This should help the school budget grow.

The district is collecting more money from each new house, as well as the established ones that gain value, which should compensate the greater neeed for ESL, without music, art and PE being drained or under funded.

[VicMan]

Will Robin Hood get in the way of the district's needs, though?

I'm not entirely sure about how districts' needs are calculated through Robin Hood. I know that districts with lots of taxable land are donor districts and are forced to give away money (i.e. Houston ISD and Pasadena ISD), while other districts, such as Humble ISD and Klein ISD, receive money.

[segovia]

Gentrification within the loop shows no signs of slowing down. With rising property taxes and housing prices, it will continue to create the demand for more affordable housing in the suburbs. Population gain, changing racial or ethnic composition, and demand in public services will be part of demand.

[VicMan]

Gentrification within the loop shows no signs of slowing down. With rising property taxes and housing prices, it will continue to create the demand for more affordable housing in the suburbs. Population gain, changing racial or ethnic composition, and demand in public services will be part of demand.

This also means that some previously-uninhabited areas (I.E. the area between 610 and BW8 along 288) will see tons of new residents move in.

[SpringTX]

Niche hit the nail on the head. I do not know where it got started that the "Woodlands" is some sort of vast expanse of million and multi-million dollar homes. There are a few homes like this, but they make up about 3% of the "Woodlands" Most of the people in the "Woodlands" are dual income families, that are living in moderately over-priced, flip-plan homes, that are struggling to "Keep up with the Jones' ". The "Woodlands" is already so far from the original dream of George Mitchell, it's not even funny.

And all these whiners that do nothing but complain on the services in "Woodlands" just really don't know how good they've got it. If you think you'd like Houston amenities better, move to Houston. Houston services are stretched so thin now, do you really think they're going to get any better if you stretch them some more. Fire Departments are undermanned, police departments are undermanned, they can't provide enough coverage for the areas they cover now, sure expand it some more, why not! All I hear about from a lot of the "Woodlands" whiners is all the high crime rate in the "Woodlands"!!!!. When is the last time they had a homicide in the "Woodlands"? You can bet Houston had a few last night and will every night, on top of several carjackings, half dozen armed robberies, and a few minor stabbings, that's high crime. Just because some punk kids, who have no supervision at home, because both their parents have to work all the time to keep up the pretense that they are better off than their bottom line shows; keys your leased Beemer, does not make the crime rate in the "Woodlands" something to always carry on and on and on about. You complain about the Houston element coming into the "Woodlands" and committing crimes, when the majority of the crimes comes from with in. You go to the "Woodlands Mall" and I can't help but laugh out loud at the "Malibu's Most Wanted" I see walking around trying to be "Gangsta." It is totally laughable.

A visual for those that missed this Oscar winner

The "Woodlands" needs to take care of themselves, vote in their own government so they can quit complaining about the Conroe PD not rushing in every time they hear a noise or the Montgomery County EMS taking 20 minutes to show up every time they break an acrylic nail. Become an entity like Bellaire and blame it on yourselves. It's worked out well for Bellaire, and I never read on here of anyone from Bellaire complaining about anything.

I like this post, not just because it mentions The Woodlands incorporating, or because it accurately describes TW and its naive suburbanites, but because it brings a fresh perspective to this forum. Sometimes the inner-loopers on this forum seem to sound bitter or even almost envious of The Woodlands residents. But as this post makes clear, there's no reason to be. If you like it in the city, you should be chuckling at us out here, not raking us over the coals. And if you don't like the city, come join us in Pleasantville - there's plenty of room for more.

[C2H]

I think this is great. I'm glad to hear that Woodlands or "The Woodlands" ( can't forget THE) is likely to become its own city. Houston does not need to annex anymore land. It's already too big to manage what we have now.

Fix up the problems Houston already has like: Potholes, Sewer drainage, and Air Quality before snatching up another territory.

[Gank]

I wonder why Conroe doesn't consider annexing The Woodlands? I guess they don't have the political juice.

[TheNiche]

I wonder why Conroe doesn't consider annexing The Woodlands? I guess they don't have the political juice.

They have already announced their intention to annex that part of The Woodlands that is east of Interstate 45. The Woodlanders there generally aren't very happy about it, even though it would mean lower tax bills.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I wonder why Conroe doesn't consider annexing The Woodlands? I guess they don't have the political juice.

I was curious about that too. If they were able to annex part of it, why would they not be able to annex all? It'd be a political fight, sure, but if I were Conroe, I would have had concerns that Houston would attempt to annex Woodlands first. Perhaps they knew something the public didn't.

[TheNiche]

I was curious about that too. If they were able to annex part of it, why would they not be able to annex all? It'd be a political fight, sure, but if I were Conroe, I would have had concerns that Houston would attempt to annex Woodlands first. Perhaps they knew something the public didn't.

If I'm not mistaken (and I could very well be), the Houston and Conroe ETJs each encompass different parts of The Woodlands. Neither city can annex part of another's ETJ.

[DJ V Lawrence]

If I'm not mistaken (and I could very well be), the Houston and Conroe ETJs each encompass different parts of The Woodlands. Neither city can annex part of another's ETJ.

But Woodlands is Woodlands. Since a part of Woodlands is in a city's ETJ, I thought everything Woodlands would qualify as a part of a city's ETJ. Also, since Conroe purchased a part of Woodlands, wouldn't that mean MORE of Woodlands would be under Conroe's ETJ?