CVS Pharmacy On Main St. At Elgin St.

[musicman]

Yes, but couldn't they have a decorative main street entrance as well?

well....more entrances mean more personnel to watch them.

[Mr. Chenevert]

You dont build buildings to serve a mass transit system.

You build a transit system to serve buildings.

If CVS believes that the majority of their business will come from people driving cars, then why in the world would they face the entrance to a light rail line that doesnt even have a stop in the immediate area.

As far as I am concerned, any development to the south of Elgin, even if it is just another CVS is good development. Which way they face the door is irrelevant to me.

[lockmat]

Why should it matter if it's near a transit stop anyway? Do people only walk around those and not other places?

Edited May 30, 2007 by lockmat

[bachanon]

although this cvs will, again, be a disappointment to the midtown ideal (for some), its presence symbolizes retail demand in the area. if cvs does well, other businesses (perhaps those who are more sensitive to the goals of the midtown district) will follow. i'll simply consider it a growing pain, much like an annoying construction zone.

[musicman]

You dont build buildings to serve a mass transit system.

You build a transit system to serve buildings.

If CVS believes that the majority of their business will come from people driving cars, then why in the world would they face the entrance to a light rail line that doesnt even have a stop in the immediate area.

As far as I am concerned, any development to the south of Elgin, even if it is just another CVS is good development. Which way they face the door is irrelevant to me.

METRO's redevelopment along main has all to do with building around the rail stations. that is why they have condemnation power 1500' around each station. because stops are limited that's what ends up happening vs a bus system where stops can be frequent.

i will have to agree that a new development in the area is better than nothing. CVS has the funding to develop a store and stay in the hood while developers are just there to make a buck and move on. with inflated land prices, they aren't willing to do it.

Edited May 30, 2007 by musicman

[Guest danax]

i'll simply consider it a growing pain, much like an annoying construction zone.

It's not just a growing pain, but also an awakening splash of water on the face of those of us who entertain dreams of Houston being "pedestrian friendly" anytime soon. Pedestrians are an extreme minority, and we've discussed the many reasons why here so much; including rainy weather like today that can turn a briefcased businessman into a long jumper at the flooded crossings.

We really can't expect those funding development to put the cart before the horse. When density really arrives in Midtown, then streetscape retail might follow.

[houstonmacbro]

Why should it matter if it's near a transit stop anyway? Do people only walk around those and not other places?

No one walks in Houston ... didn't you know that?

[GovernorAggie]

so if it looks good on ONE side that is enough? i personally don't think that's an "urban" structure.

let's examine a real urban structure across main street. come out the front door and stare at a parking garage with space for stores on the first floor but no businesses have moved in yet. is this the kind of urban indentity you're going for?

You know, I've seen this parking garage referred to quite a bit here. Has anyone ever given thought to why the spaces haven't been filled? There could be a ton of issues, such as: maybe the space isn't configured well, maybe the lease options are not very good, or maybe--just maybe there has been interest and attempts to fill the space, but for whatever reason it isn't. I mean, come back if HCC (or whoever owns it) says, "hey, we never got any calls about this space" and then go off on how its a waste and not a good example of urbanity and a bad omen to pedestrian development in Midtown and so on and so on.

[musicman]

You know, I've seen this parking garage referred to quite a bit here. Has anyone ever given thought to why the spaces haven't been filled? There could be a ton of issues, such as: maybe the space isn't configured well, maybe the lease options are not very good, or maybe--just maybe there has been interest and attempts to fill the space, but for whatever reason it isn't. I mean, come back if HCC (or whoever owns it) says, "hey, we never got any calls about this space" and then go off on how its a waste and not a good example of urbanity and a bad omen to pedestrian development in Midtown and so on and so on.

because of inflated land prices, rents will most likely be high. that is the biggest hindrance IMO. METRO (and their planners) have said this is why new development isn't occuring.

[Mr. Chenevert]

Why should it matter if it's near a transit stop anyway? Do people only walk around those and not other places?

People rarely walk more than 15 minutes to get to a transit stop.

Even in NYC, and surrounding communities, if your residence is more than a 15 minute walk to a transit station, people usually take a bus, bike, or cab to get to the transit station.

[TheNiche]

People rarely walk more than 15 minutes to get to a transit stop.

Even in NYC, and surrounding communities, if your residence is more than a 15 minute walk to a transit station, people usually take a bus, bike, or cab to get to the transit station.

...actually, most urban planners use the 1/4 radius as the boundary for walkability from a transit stop. If you assume that a walker goes 3mph, then it's actually closer to a 5-minute limitation.

[Mr. Chenevert]

...actually, most urban planners use the 1/4 radius as the boundary for walkability from a transit stop. If you assume that a walker goes 3mph, then it's actually closer to a 5-minute limitation.

Just because Christoph uses that, doesnt mean most urban planners do But your example illustrates my point even more. Why should CVS cater their building (and therefore business) to the light rail, when light rail doesnt even serve the store?

[TheNiche]

Just because Christoph uses that, doesnt mean most urban planners do But your example illustrates my point even more. Why should CVS cater their building (and therefore business) to the light rail, when light rail doesnt even serve the store?

I don't read Christoph's blog. Most urban planners really do use 1/4 mile.

But you're basically right...LRT's impact on development looks more like a string of pearls than like a corridor.

[musicman]

Why should CVS cater their building (and therefore business) to the light rail, when light rail doesnt even serve the store?

it is the people who believe everything should be "urban" development who want this. it has to make economic sense for a business to come in. not having parking will definitely limit their customer base which doesn't make sense economically.

[lockmat]

No one walks in Houston ... didn't you know that?

better tear up the sidewalks and widen the lanes then. Don't know why we wasted money those silly things.

[MiDTOWNeR]

it is the people who believe everything should be "urban" development who want this. it has to make economic sense for a business to come in. not having parking will definitely limit their customer base which doesn't make sense economically.

YEAH! We can't have the suburb of midtown ghetting all urban on us yokels.

[musicman]

YEAH! We can't have the suburb of midtown ghetting all urban on us yokels.

ghetting? it's pretty ghetto in that area now.

[bach]

I can't find the URL, but the Zone 10 Chronicle This Week section yesterday had an article: "Midtown - Residents have issues with new CVS store."

Midtown Mgmt District and others tried, and it'll help people understand why we might want a few incentives and code changes.

[Mr. Chenevert]

Link the article....

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/hei...ws/4833123.html

basically says CVS rejected midtown proposal of a more urban feel. Midtown asked for apartments on the second floor... CVS said "homey dont play that".... Midtown asked for the store to be brought up against the sidewalks, which would have meant aquiring a waiver from the city since its against currect ordinances.

Why doesnt midtown get the codes changed so that each developer doesnt have to get special waivers?

[musicman]

Link the article....

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/hei...ws/4833123.html

basically says CVS rejected midtown proposal of a more urban feel. Midtown asked for apartments on the second floor... CVS said "homey dont play that".... Midtown asked for the store to be brought up against the sidewalks, which would have meant aquiring a waiver from the city since its against currect ordinances.

Why doesnt midtown get the codes changed so that each developer doesnt have to get special waivers?

i can't believe that people are asking them to build apartments. they aren't in the landlord biz. midtown wants the city to make the changes but if midtown wants the changes, then they should do more than whine and go through the process of changing the land usage/setbacks. the ed wulfe comments were interesting particularly since he hasn't developed anything there.

We like the Planning Committee to review all pending projects in Midtown because we like to encourage those projects to be urban in character.

Power of persuasion

``There is no requirement to (meet with the committee), we ask that they do that. I would guess we get to see 30 to 40 percent of projects that go into Midtown. The only power we have is the power of persuasion.

Obviously not.

Edited June 1, 2007 by musicman

[Mister X]

Well, at least it's good to know that there are enough people interested in changing the building codes so that maybe these types of developments in Midtown could be a thing of the past one day. I was beginning to think that HAIFers were the only ones who even cared about it.

I would love to see people picketing that awful CVS once it opens and really getting the word out on a large scale that changes in buiding codes are needed and pedestrian friendly building guidelines ought to be enforced in Midtown.

If the Midtown planning committed is organized enough to interact with companies like CVS to make suggestions and come up with their own renderings of what they want, then why don't they have any enfluence with the city? Does anyone know if this organization is actively putting any pressure on the city or has started any real attempt to get building code laws changed? And if they have, what is the likelyhood of success?

Forget about campaigns to get better lighting on downtown towers, I think the first goal of everyone interested in urban developement in Houston should be making Midtown pedestrian friendly - especially on the rail line. When I think of the enormous potential Midtown has to become a true urban neighborhood with its great location, tight street grid, and rail access - it makes me a little ill to think that more CVS's could happen in the near future.

Where can I sign a petition? What can I do short of throwing rocks at people who will be driving in to the new CVS parking lot? (just kidding about the rocks)

Edited June 1, 2007 by Mister X

[musicman]

If the Midtown planning committed is organized enough to interact with companies like CVS to make suggestions and come up with their own renderings of what they want, then why don't they have any enfluence with the city? Does anyone know if this organization is actively putting any pressure on the city or has started any real attempt to get building code laws changed? And if they have, what is the likelyhood of success?

changing codes is one thing, whining about them is another. you really have to get a councilmember to sponsor the effort. councilmember peter brown campaigned actively on making midtown an urban development and he's done nothing to further that goal. i'm still laughing about the "power of pursuasion" that was mentioned repeatedly in the article.

Edited June 3, 2007 by musicman

[Jax]

Here's a photo of what they have done so far (sorry for the low quality cell phone image). I took this on Friday as I drove past the construction. The site facing the Metro rail isn't set back too far, but its hard to tell if it's going to be the back of the building with a blank wall and some dumpsters or if they are planning on putting an extra entrance there. It seems like it wouldn't be hard to put up some kind of a facade to make it appear like a front entrance from the metro rail and have a door, and then have an entrance on the other side as well with the parking lot. Would that be possible, or am I just dreaming?

Hmm.. Does anybody know why the max file size I can upload is 24 kb? It's pretty much impossible for me to upload anything useufl with that sort of restriction.

I guess I found another place to upload it. ANy idea why HAIF is so annoying with upload file size restrictions?

[musicman]

It seems like it wouldn't be hard to put up some kind of a facade to make it appear like a front entrance from the metro rail and have a door, and then have an entrance on the other side as well with the parking lot. Would that be possible, or am I just dreaming?

it wouldn't be hard but to maintain two entrances for a drug store in that location would be a nightmare. from the article the main street side will be glass

While CVS added landscaping and glass storefronts to the building's Main Street side, it rejected Midtown's proposals to orient the front of the building to Main Street and bring the building up to the sidewalk.

[Jax]

Hmm interesting. I guess we can only wait and see how bad it is. It's strange that they wouldn't move it a bit closer to the sidewalks. It's going to look weird compared to the storefronts (or office fronts?) at the bottom of the HCC garage, although unfortunately they are mostly empty (or at least they look empty).

[musicman]

Hmm interesting. I guess we can only wait and see how bad it is. It's strange that they wouldn't move it a bit closer to the sidewalks. It's going to look weird compared to the storefronts (or office fronts?) at the bottom of the HCC garage, although unfortunately they are mostly empty (or at least they look empty).

very few people walk on main in that area. that's another reason why the HCC storefronts are empty.

[nmainguy]

The site facing the Metro rail isn't set back too far, but its hard to tell if it's going to be the back of the building with a blank wall and some dumpsters or if they are planning on putting an extra entrance there.

No extra entrance. The Main Street side will be the drive-thru pharmacy.-just the kind of slap in the face the Midtown Association and many chronic posters here on HAIF have no problem with. CVS will work with you if you apply the pressure. We did it in the Heights so all I can assume about Midtown is they don't care that much.

[Jax]

Few people walk on that part of main but amazingly I always see people walking several blocks from there near Taco A GoGo. Too bad that sort of atmosphere can't spread past that one block.

So which will it be? Glass storefronts and landscaping, or a drive through on main? Or somehow both?

[citykid09]

They got a little greedy when the wanted apartments on a second floor. But I still don't think its fare that CVS treats Houston the way it does when it comes to being more pedestrian friendly. CVS build two Urban stores in Atlanta Midtown, but built two Suburban stores in Houston. What does that tell you CVS thinks about Houston?

Here is one of the ones in Midtown Atlanta:

[citykid09]

Now that I read the rest of the article I see why, because of city ordnances. What I can't understand is the mayor seems like a really nice guy, why don't people complain to him and the city council about changing this and making Houston more of an Urban city inside the loop. Why would the the major and the council reject that? ITS WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited June 8, 2007 by citykid09