The US automakers and their troubles

[musicman]

i added to the US automakers' troubles. i bought a toyota corolla. i forgot why i don't like to buy cars. too many hassles. changing prices when you tell them at the end you're paying cash, refusing to pin down the interest rates for a loan., etc.

[RedScare]

Made, built or assembled?

What does it all mean?

Figure it out for yourself.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/artic...95/article.html

[jm1fd]

i added to the US automakers' troubles. i bought a toyota corolla. i forgot why i don't like to buy cars. too many hassles. changing prices when you tell them at the end you're paying cash, refusing to pin down the interest rates for a loan., etc.

Ask to talk to one of the guys in fleet or internet sales...they're usually MUCH easier to deal with. In my experience, it has gone something like this:

"How much for car X?"

"$Y,YYY. Take it or leave it"

"Sold"

[musicman]

Ask to talk to one of the guys in fleet or internet sales...they're usually MUCH easier to deal with. In my experience, it has gone something like this:

"How much for car X?"

"$Y,YYY. Take it or leave it"

"Sold"

that's where i started off...but the nissan place i had the problems with finance area (price kept changing) and toyota well the internet person leaves the car interaction with a sales person and when i asked ot get spcific finance info they said "i can't tell you the rate" etc. i said...since i don't have too much time i'll come back tomorrow when the finance area figures it out. and that scared them but they still wouldn't give me the rate. finally the sales manager came and i asked the questions and got a straight answer. i think the sticker was 16.4. and the net discount/rebate took is down approx 1400. and i said i woujld have to check for financing.....he said toyota would offer 5.9. i said i'll come back tomorrow and he said what would it take for you to take it home today. i said drop the price to 14. and he did. i evidently got it under their cost according to the paperwork the finance person showed me.

the internet person said that toyota will send out surveys to rate each area. i hope they do. she was very nice and answered questions. it was the rest of the people that were irritating. they won't be getting good ratings.

[plumber2]

If you don't like it, you're welcome to start up your own company and pay union wages in ununionized industry...see what happens. You might just find that you're put out of business because you can't sell products inexpensively enough to compete with the other firms that keep their costs down and products affordable to U.S. consumers. What good are high wages after all, if the products are more expensive?

Damn those San Antonians! They took our jobs!

Oh, so if your preferred economic arrangement kills off the very auto industry that you hold dear, you'll just revert to the lifestyle of choice in communist Cuba? Brilliant! Americanism at its finest...

The San Antonians didn't take our jobs, but I do think it was a poor choice for Toyota to assemble trucks there. Let's just hope for their part that the rail lines are in good shape back to the east and west coasts, because I'm not too sure how many mid american Bubbas are gonna buy these vehicles, unless they give them away cheap. Oh no, that would never happen. Foreign car companies wouldn't flood the market with cheap cars just to hurt the domestics, would they? Not in America. Our leaders wouldn't let that happen?

[MidtownCoog]

Old Niche is so lost in his number crunching he couldn't comprehend your Cuba logic.

I get it, and I am with you.

1st,

Never taken the beast to the raceway. It's slow off the line. It's above 35 or so where is shines.

[TJones]

Ask to talk to one of the guys in fleet or internet sales...they're usually MUCH easier to deal with. In my experience, it has gone something like this:

"How much for car X?"

"$Y,YYY. Take it or leave it"

"Sold"

Thanks jm1, I appreciate that. You're a nice guy, I don't care what Mr. Chenevert said about you.

BTW, musicman, if you give eveyone else bad marks, it will count AGAINST the salesperson. If you are upset over anything, write it down in the "comments section". Leave the marks as all excellent if you want the salesperson to get a good score.

[musicman]

BTW, musicman, if you give eveyone else bad marks, it will count AGAINST the salesperson. If you are upset over anything, write it down in the "comments section". Leave the marks as all excellent if you want the salesperson to get a good score.

LOL yes she explained that thoroughly. i can tell you two are in internet sales.

[PureAuteur]

I may be a little behind the conversation here, but MidtownCoog is right about Japanese cars. They are definitely good quality, but the designs have just been boring in recent years. Nobody looks cool in a Honda Civic, just as nobody looks cool in a Toyota Corolla. American cars at least have a tad bit more styling, although even they have been pretty awful in recent years as well. I have not owned a car made after 1997. I won't buy a car from anyone, American or Japanese just because it's new. Maybe if they made more stylish cars. I still drive my 1994 Ford Taurus LX. It has classic American styling, which American automakers abandoned somewhere around 1997. I will continue to drive older cars. If my engine goes bad, I'll buy a new engine. If the transmission goes out, I'll rebuild it. If I get into a wreck, I'll have body work done on it.

The idea that American cars are unreliable is a myth. They are just fine. The problem with American cars is that the parts have been complete junk post-1996. Look at body frames, the detailing, the door handles, the interior, the rearview mirrors, the headlights and taillights of any Ford made after 1997. Maybe it avoids the shop, but the styling and poor quality parts are enough to lose one's dignity.

[TheNiche]

The San Antonians didn't take our jobs, but I do think it was a poor choice for Toyota to assemble trucks there. Let's just hope for their part that the rail lines are in good shape back to the east and west coasts, because I'm not too sure how many mid american Bubbas are gonna buy these vehicles, unless they give them away cheap. Oh no, that would never happen. Foreign car companies wouldn't flood the market with cheap cars just to hurt the domestics, would they? Not in America. Our leaders wouldn't let that happen?

UP and other railroads are doing pretty well at the moment, and are taking steps to expand the rail network. For instance, there is a double-tracking project going on in west Texas to assure efficient east/west movement between Texas and California.

Seems to me that the Japs are making good money and selling inexpensive cars. Doesn't seem that there are any grounds for an antitrust violation. If it is a problem, it is one that I'm glad that we have.

[TJones]

Maybe if they made more stylish cars. I still drive my 1994 Ford Taurus LX. It has classic American styling....

Pure, Pure, Pure, por favor ! ! ! I think they just passed a law that made it illegal to be able to use "Stylish", and "1994 Ford Taurus", in the same sentence. I am gonna go double check that. For now, just try not to use them together.

[jm1fd]

LOL yes she explained that thoroughly. i can tell you two are in internet sales.

You two? You're not talking about me an TJ are you? I don't even work at a car dealership....

[musicman]

You two? You're not talking about me an TJ are you? I don't even work at a car dealership....

sorry was having a side conversation.

[jm1fd]

I still drive my 1994 Ford Taurus LX. It has classic American styling, which American automakers abandoned somewhere around 1997.

Let's see....

Classic American Styling from 1994

OR....

Classic Japanese Styling from 1994

And before you dingleheads start crying that the RX-7 is a ripoff of the Whorevette or Viper or whatnot, mull over the fact that the syling of the RX-7 was finalized in March 1989, because it had to be tooled and in production in early 1992.

[TJones]

You won't hear ANY complaints from me about the RX-7. I think the vehicle is a piece of art, as far as the lines are concerned. Mazda HAD to do something to compete with the Supra looks. They pulled it off, then decided to mess it all up with the RX-8. Go figure.

BTW, it is GEARHEADS not DINGLEHEADS you dingleberry !

This is Classic 1994 American Styling:

Here is the "STYLISH" Toyota Camry, somebody hold me back ! :

I recently acquired one of 1994's Motor Trend's Car of the Year. It has 74k, and I actually drive it everyday to work. Good little American Pony. Mine is exactly the same as the Red one shown here.:

[RedScare]

The idea that American cars are unreliable is a myth. They are just fine. The problem with American cars is that the parts have been complete junk post-1996. Look at body frames, the detailing, the door handles, the interior, the rearview mirrors, the headlights and taillights of any Ford made after 1997. Maybe it avoids the shop, but the styling and poor quality parts are enough to lose one's dignity.

Not sure what point you are trying to make, but you just proved yourself wrong with your own statement. Someone posted the answer earlier in this thread. The Big 3 decided to loosen tolerances to save money. That engineering faux pas cost them dearly. Now they are playing catch up. It is not American workers (union or otherwise) that is the problem. The problem lies with American management. I have no problem with punishing management that thinks they can sell a shoddy product by buying from their competitor.

[nmainguy]

For the last 27 years I've paid cash for the few vehichles I've owned. I realize this is not an option for most but fortunatly it is for us. So I buy the best car for the money regardless of it's origin. Recently I've had one stolen because it was a superior forigen brand. So for now our main ride is still a 150 and our favorite is my old reliable 83' 350SL.

[PureAuteur]

Not sure what point you are trying to make, but you just proved yourself wrong with your own statement. Someone posted the answer earlier in this thread. The Big 3 decided to loosen tolerances to save money. That engineering faux pas cost them dearly. Now they are playing catch up. It is not American workers (union or otherwise) that is the problem. The problem lies with American management. I have no problem with punishing management that thinks they can sell a shoddy product by buying from their competitor.

Sorry about that. My point was that people have this idea that American cars always need maintenance, but they are actually built well mechanically. It's the parts that are junk. I rarely need any maintenance on my Taurus, but my mother's Honda Accord was constantly in the shop.

[jm1fd]

It's the parts that are junk.

But the car is great, because it comprised of a whole bunch of parts??!?!?

[musicman]

My point was that people have this idea that American cars always need maintenance, but they are actually built well mechanically. It's the parts that are junk.

i think you need to stop while you're behind

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Whats with this new Lincoln Navigator Cantera Edition? Its supposed to be only available for the Texas market, but i cannot find any info. on it except for the short TV commercial. Im a current Navigator owner and i am not happy with the hideous retro dash or the new face and ass that the 2007 models have.

Will be purchasing a new beast possibly in 2008 and im now leaning more toward Caddy Escalade. That machine has style! Wake up Lincoln!!! Im a Ford fan mostly but the new Navigator styling is yuck.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Whats with this new Lincoln Navigator Cantera Edition? Its supposed to be only available for the Texas market, but i cannot find any info. on it except for the short TV commercial.

Found some info. but had to go all the way to Dallas to get it

http://shopping.dallasnews.com/ROP/ads.asp...72652&type=

[Subdude]

Whats with this new Lincoln Navigator Cantera Edition? Its supposed to be only available for the Texas market, but i cannot find any info. on it except for the short TV commercial. Im a current Navigator owner and i am not happy with the hideous retro dash or the new face and ass that the 2007 models have.

I read somewhere that Lincoln was already considering scrapping the big chrome strip over the grill.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I read somewhere that Lincoln was already considering scrapping the big chrome strip over the grill.

The designers of this new Navigator need to be fired are retrained. The outside and inside are horrible

[MidtownCoog]

Nice truck. That lease offer is so "Dallas".

I can't get off the Sewell delership's spam list.

[MidtownCoog]

Way to Go, Toyota!

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N29332314.htm

Toyota fixing engine failures in new Tundra truck. Toyota has billed the Tundra as its most important product launch ever. Its engine problems comes as Toyota faces pressure to maintain its reputation for quality in the face of a stretch of fast growth that has made it the world's largest automaker.

[jm1fd]

Way to Go, Toyota!

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N29332314.htm

Toyota fixing engine failures in new Tundra truck. Toyota has billed the Tundra as its most important product launch ever. Its engine problems comes as Toyota faces pressure to maintain its reputation for quality in the face of a stretch of fast growth that has made it the world's largest automaker.

20 engines? I hardly consider that a catastrophe.

[MidtownCoog]

Toyota said it has determined that a flaw in the casting of a still-undetermined number of Tundra camshafts.

"We're still trying to get our arms around how many could have been affected," he said.

So basically you get to drive around until it stops working until they figure it out.

I guess Red can always take the Pecore to work.

[RedScare]

Nah, I got the old-school 4.8 liter. Besides, I already take the Pecore. That's why I only have 26,000 miles in 3 and a half years on my Toy.

[jm1fd]

Nah, I got the old-school 4.8 liter. Besides, I already take the Pecore. That's why I only have 26,000 miles in 3 and a half years on my Toy.

I think you mean the 4.7 L