The US automakers and their troubles

[Mr. Chenevert]

It could have had 20 redesigns, still doesn't change the fact that the SC was on the Soarer platform cheif.

Have you ever thought that the Camry was based of the ES platofrm? When you share platforms, you have to design for both products. That doesnt mean that the ES is based on a cheap platform... if anything, the Camry is based on a very high quality platform.

[TJones]

Have you ever thought that the Camry was based of the ES platofrm? When you share platforms, you have to design for both products. That doesnt mean that the ES is based on a cheap platform... if anything, the Camry is based on a very high quality platform.

No, the ES is based off the Camry, do you think Lexus designs cars around Toyota platforms or does Toyota design around Lexus platforms, because the latter is apparently what jm1 has been lead to believe happens over at Toyota.

Bottomline the SC didn't start off on it's own platform, I don't care how you try to twist it, you are WRONG!

jm1 perhaps you would tell me that the Supra strated off on its OWN platform also, or did it start it's life based off the Celica ?

[TJones]

Sure, just like Toyo and Corolla.

“Within Toyota, Corolla is seen by many as the DNA of corporate engineering. When it was launched in 1966, it made a defining statement: that quality, reliability and durability could be affordable. . . . Corolla was the starting point for a thread that has run through every Toyota, regardless of segment or price range, for the last 35 years. In every Camry

[MidtownCoog]

Call me a patriotic hick, but they all look alike to me.

[Mr. Chenevert]

FORD FOREVER!!!!

[TJones]

FORD FOREVER!!!!

I'll go this route instead,

Now, this platform or "A-BODY" as it is called, was shared with the Chevy Chevelle & Monte Carlo, Buick GS, and Pontiac GTO, in the GM line-up. This one is the Olds Cutlass Supreme.

[jm1fd]

No, the ES is based off the Camry,

Is that so? Are you an engineer for Lexus or Toyota?

do you think Lexus designs cars around Toyota platforms or does Toyota design around Lexus platforms, because the latter is apparently what jm1 has been lead to believe happens over at Toyota.

For the cars which have shared platforms, I suspect they design the PLATFORM first with the intent of building both a Lexus and a Toyota. For the cars which do not share a platform there's not a doubt in my mind that they design it as a Lexus the whole way through.

Bottomline the SC didn't start off on it's own platform, I don't care how you try to twist it, you are WRONG!

You can say I'm wrong all you want, but that doesn't make it so. Just because it was badged as a Toyota for the JDM doesn't mean its not its very own luxury platform. It was a VERY expensive car in both markets.

jm1 perhaps you would tell me that the Supra strated off on its OWN platform also, or did it start it's life based off the Celica ?

As I recall, they were the more or less the same car for several generations, but went their separate ways (different platforms) later in life.

[TJones]

I am not an engineer for Toyota, but I do hold a pretty "cake" position within Nissan, so I have to know the competition a little bit. I am not knocking Toyota at all. I think they make an excellent product up until about 3 years ago. They have been resting on their laurels. Toyota has realized this, hence the introduction of some NEW product. A reworked Fullsize truck ( new platform also), and small car market trendsetter.

Nissan's midsize trucks and SUVs use similar platforms,from the Fullsizes, not shared, but modified forms. Just like Toyota does, Toyota uses (modified), that is a better word for it than (shared) I guess. Different product with different product codes, using similar engineering.

I understand your stance about the IS and Corolla, not being as similar because the IS is RWD. IS300 is the performance version of the Corolla, and in order to gain top performance, you need a RWD car. FWD is a less expensive way to build a car, but it makes about 60% of the weight on the front making them less easier to control a drift while racing or if you drive on the street that way also. I am of the mindset that RWD is a better way to drive for me and other performance minded indivduals, but for the Soccermoms just going to the grocery store, it should be FWD all the way, everyday.

You might be interested to know that the Corolla actually used to be RWD.

[Mr. Chenevert]

IS300 is the performance version of the Corolla

What???

Are you serious?

I am an engineer (but I dont work for Toyota either) and I would venture a pretty qualified guess that the only mechanical piece that the Corolla and the IS300 share, is the cruise control stalk. That particular stalk is used on pretty much every Toyota and Lexus product I have ever seen.

You might be interested to know that the Corolla actually used to be RWD.

Yes, the AE86 is still very popular with the drift crowd.

[jm1fd]

but I do hold a pretty "cake" position within Nissan, so I have to know the competition a little bit

In engineering?

[TJones]

In engineering?

I wish they'd let me design something, then I assure you I could change you hardcore Toyotaheads into Nissan drivers. But alas, I am in the Internet aspect of things for them.

I remember Mr. Chenevert saying something about the 350Z not being as big a hit with consumers as the Infiniti's line. I totally agree, It's because the G35 coupe is a little more of a plush ride with it being about a foot longer than the Z with a 8 inch longer wheelbase than the Z and 200 lbs heavier than the Z. The Z was built for a more "Tuner crowd" mentalitly where as the G35 is built for comfort and be a luxury sports coupe and not the kidney pounding "feel of the road" that the Z has, there's just less people in the market these days for that. I would probably take the G35 over the Z myself at this stage of my life.

[MidtownCoog]

The G35 coupe sure sounds funnny. Almost motorcycle like. What's up with that sound? It almost wants to be "throaty" but misses the mark.

[TJones]

The G35 coupe sure sounds funnny. Almost motorcycle like. What's up with that sound? It almost wants to be "throaty" but misses the mark.

Are you sure it was a factory exhaust, they make alot of aftermarket ones for that car. Borla cat-back sounds completely different from say HKS or Magnaflow. I know what you are talking about though. I wll check out this G35 I have here and see if it makes that motorcycle sound, this one is ALL stock.

[jm1fd]

The G35 coupe sure sounds funnny. Almost motorcycle like. What's up with that sound? It almost wants to be "throaty" but misses the mark.

Yeah...I've heard the stock exhaust on those too...it is a rather odd sound.

[Mr. Chenevert]

The entire lineup that uses the VQ 3.5 litre has a very "tinny" exhaust note IMO.

I never said anything about the 350 not being a hit. That was someone else. My comment was only regarding that Nissan had to make some sacrifices when they decided to put the 350Z and the FX35 on the same platform.

[TJones]

The entire lineup that uses the VQ 3.5 litre has a very "tinny" exhaust note IMO.

I never said anything about the 350 not being a hit. That was someone else. My comment was only regarding that Nissan had to make some sacrifices when they decided to put the 350Z and the FX35 on the same platform.

Must have been jm1 then, apologies.

All the magazine editors panned it until they actually drove the FX35. That SUV is a sweet ride. I agree on the "tinny" exaust note though from my company. Hard to get a serious "RUMBLE" out of a V6. I have the same listening problem with the Viper. You would think the Viper should sound like 5 Harleys coming down the street with that V10, but I have never heard a Viper that made me go "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, listen to that exhaust !" I think the Vipers should sound like Dodge's Hemi engine with some dual Flowmaster exhaust on it.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I have 4 cars in my name.

Lincoln Navigator-my ride

Mustang GT convertible- 1st sons ride

Ford F150 - 2nd sons ride

Audi TT- wifes ride

The three Fords were all purchased new and have never had any trouble. When each of them reaches 4 years old, they will be replaced. As others here are, im not into driving 10+ yr old cars/trucks and neither will my children.

The Audi TT was also purchased new and it has been to the shop 4 times for various problems. It has not been a good car so far I was against the Audi from day one since my big ass doesnt fit into it comfortably and the mechanical problems dont help its standing with me

The people that hold the factory jobs which manufactor these automibiles that i and others replace every 4 years or so thank us very much. Im sure their families thank us as well since the revenue generated by the sales of the cars help them to put a roof over their heads and food in thier mouths and clothes on thier backs and pumps money into the local-state and national economy through the consistent payment of taxes etc etc etc.

Everyone isnt able to purchase new cars every 4 years and i dont bad mouth them because of that. Its a shame that some people that keep thier autos for 10+ years either due to economics or personal choice cannot do the same.

SUVs as well as minivans come in real handy when you have kids. When the boys were younger and there was some sort of trip somewhere local, we usually had several of thier friends with us. Try hauling a bunch of pre-teen and early teen males around in a compact car and let me then know the state of your sanity at journeys end.

[plumber2]

I'll never buy a foreign car, or a car from a foreign company.....that includes you Daimler Chrysler. I'm third generation union and proud of it. Us "high school" educated wage earners, even though I have a bachelor's degree, work for our pay and earn every penny of it. Unions have kept the living wage of thousands of kraft workers at levels that are fair and justifiable. If you free market jerks had it your way we would all be working like the illegal aliens as an unregulated sub- economic class. "Contract labor" as y'all like to call it, with no benefits.

I want to contribute my hard earned dollars back into the national economy were I earned it, America. I want to support my father's and grand father's generation as they get old, just like I would hope the generation behind me does.

Oh!, and by the way....would you jerks please take the American flag bumper stickers off your Toyota's and Honda's. I'm not quite sure what type of statement you're trying to make, but it's insulting to me. Well, maybe not insulting, but hypocritical at least.

I've got six US made vehicles: 1991 Buick Skylark (inherited from my mom) runs good, even good a/c.

1995 Chevy Tahoe: 250,000 miles, very dependable.

2000 Chevy Blazer: 150,000 miles, for my high schooler.

2002 Ford F150; 150,000 miles, my ride.

2005 Chevy Cavalier: off at college

2006 Ford Freestyle: wife's ride (she gets the newest of course)

I'll keep buying American cars until they quit making them. And if they do I'll resort to what the Cubans are doing, and keep what I've got running forever.

I just took a deep breath. I'm calm now.

[jm1fd]

The Audi TT was also purchased new and it has been to the shop 4 times for various problems. It has not been a good car so far I was against the Audi from day one since my big ass doesnt fit into it comfortably and the mechanical problems dont help its standing with me

Yeah...I had a TT as well. It also had various issues. The Haldex controller died, the antenna broke, the radiator fan died (that took two trips because they replaced the fan controller the first time) and the paint on the roof rails was bubbling.

Oh!, and by the way....would you jerks please take the American flag bumper stickers off your Toyota's and Honda's. I'm not quite sure what type of statement you're trying to make, but it's insulting to me. Well, maybe not insulting, but hypocritical at least.

And you don't shop at Wal-Mart either, right? Because...I mean...if you did, that would make you a hypocrite too.

[MidtownCoog]

Here is why I am done with Jap cars. I might buy a Mazda, but that's about it.

Check out the new yawner from Lexus. Looks like every other boring car they make.

The 2008 LS 600

http://reviews.cnet.com/4326-10863_7-65713...l?tag=cnetfd.mt

[webdude]

I'll never buy a foreign car, or a car from a foreign company.....that includes you Daimler Chrysler. I'm third generation union and proud of it. Us "high school" educated wage earners, even though I have a bachelor's degree, work for our pay and earn every penny of it. Unions have kept the living wage of thousands of kraft workers at levels that are fair and justifiable. If you free market jerks had it your way we would all be working like the illegal aliens as an unregulated sub- economic class. "Contract labor" as y'all like to call it, with no benefits.

I want to contribute my hard earned dollars back into the national economy were I earned it, America. I want to support my father's and grand father's generation as they get old, just like I would hope the generation behind me does.

Oh!, and by the way....would you jerks please take the American flag bumper stickers off your Toyota's and Honda's. I'm not quite sure what type of statement you're trying to make, but it's insulting to me. Well, maybe not insulting, but hypocritical at least.

I've got six US made vehicles: 1991 Buick Skylark (inherited from my mom) runs good, even good a/c.

1995 Chevy Tahoe: 250,000 miles, very dependable.

2000 Chevy Blazer: 150,000 miles, for my high schooler.

2002 Ford F150; 150,000 miles, my ride.

2005 Chevy Cavalier: off at college

2006 Ford Freestyle: wife's ride (she gets the newest of course)

I'll keep buying American cars until they quit making them. And if they do I'll resort to what the Cubans are doing, and keep what I've got running forever.

I just took a deep breath. I'm calm now.

I will continue to support which product gives me the most value, and I will not bow to false patriotism, where does one get the idea that buying a American brand car makes one a patriot, or not buying makes one not. IMHO, if not for unions, American brands would have produce better cars.

[RedScare]

Coog, you drive a STATION WAGON! Do you realize how funny it is to hear a station wagon owner smack talk another car?

[TheNiche]

I'll never buy a foreign car, or a car from a foreign company.....that includes you Daimler Chrysler. I'm third generation union and proud of it. Us "high school" educated wage earners, even though I have a bachelor's degree, work for our pay and earn every penny of it. Unions have kept the living wage of thousands of kraft workers at levels that are fair and justifiable. If you free market jerks had it your way we would all be working like the illegal aliens as an unregulated sub- economic class. "Contract labor" as y'all like to call it, with no benefits.

If you don't like it, you're welcome to start up your own company and pay union wages in ununionized industry...see what happens. You might just find that you're put out of business because you can't sell products inexpensively enough to compete with the other firms that keep their costs down and products affordable to U.S. consumers. What good are high wages after all, if the products are more expensive?

Oh!, and by the way....would you jerks please take the American flag bumper stickers off your Toyota's and Honda's. I'm not quite sure what type of statement you're trying to make, but it's insulting to me. Well, maybe not insulting, but hypocritical at least.

Damn those San Antonians! They took our jobs!

I'll keep buying American cars until they quit making them. And if they do I'll resort to what the Cubans are doing, and keep what I've got running forever.

Oh, so if your preferred economic arrangement kills off the very auto industry that you hold dear, you'll just revert to the lifestyle of choice in communist Cuba? Brilliant! Americanism at its finest...

[plumber2]

Yeah...I had a TT as well. It also had various issues. The Haldex controller died, the antenna broke, the radiator fan died (that took two trips because they replaced the fan controller the first time) and the paint on the roof rails was bubbling.

And you don't shop at Wal-Mart either, right? Because...I mean...if you did, that would make you a hypocrite too.

I never have been a big fan of WalMart. I stay away from places like that. That's not to say that True Value and Sears don't sell foreign stuff either. So yeah, I'm a hypocrite, but just a small one. Automobiles are usually a much larger purchase, sometimes the largest a person will ever make.

[RedScare]

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/artic...95/article.html

Ford Fusion is only 30% US/Canadian made, while Toyota Camry is 80% US built. Aside from the obvious numerical difference, do you consider Canada and Mexican built Fords and GMs "American made"?

[VicMan]

I drive a red 1996 Nissan truck - The truck has four seats and an I-4 - I find it fun to drive!

[jm1fd]

I never have been a big fan of WalMart. I stay away from places like that. That's not to say that True Value and Sears don't sell foreign stuff either. So yeah, I'm a hypocrite, but just a small one. Automobiles are usually a much larger purchase, sometimes the largest a person will ever make.

Automobiles are most certainly a bigger single item purchase. But how often does one buy a car? How often does one buy "consumer goods"? All those trips to Sears, True Value, Wal-Mart and the Grocery store add up.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/artic...95/article.html

Ford Fusion is only 30% US/Canadian made, while Toyota Camry is 80% US built. Aside from the obvious numerical difference, do you consider Canada and Mexican built Fords and GMs "American made"?

But...uhmm...the profits come back to 'Merica! Oooops wait a sec....those would be losses in the case of Ford and GM, wouldn't they?

[MidtownCoog]

A station wagon great design and more interior space than many SUVs along with a 5.7 v8 with 348 HP. Not to mention MDS that can take an 8 to a 6 on the highway.

Eat my dust.

[MidtownCoog]

Ford Fusion is only 30% US/Canadian made, while Toyota Camry is 80% US built. Aside from the obvious numerical difference, do you consider Canada and Mexican built Fords and GMs "American made"?

Made, built or assembled?

What does it all mean?

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

A station wagon great design and more interior space than many SUVs along with a 5.7 v8 with 348 HP. Not to mention MDS that can take an 8 to a 6 on the highway.

Eat my dust.

Your beast is nice! That thing is like a freaking canon on wheels!!!! Ever thought of going to the Raceway Park?