Aga Khan Foundation: Islamic Community Center

[sevfiv]

are the available for the taking easily?

it depends on how AAA handles it. since parts of the building are very close to busy streets, there might be a fence put up. it also depends on how fast they clean up, and what time of day they decide to work.

it is still *technically* stealing (and trespassing), though

[MidtownCoog]

Stealing, schmealing! Just wear a hard-hart and put a flashing light on your truck.

If they are good bricks I bet they are already sold for salvage.

The best bricks I have ever found were scattered about in empty lots in Midtown. Those were some very old collector bricks. I used them to make a patio. Should have ripped them up when I moved.

[musicman]

it depends on how AAA handles it. since parts of the building are very close to busy streets, there might be a fence put up. it also depends on how fast they clean up, and what time of day they decide to work.

it is still *technically* stealing (and trespassing), though

as i thought it would be.

[Guest danax]

[TheNiche]

Wow. As often as I drive by there, I never really noticed the intricate brickwork.

[Guest danax]

Wow. As often as I drive by there, I never really noticed the intricate brickwork.

We'll make a preservationist out of you yet, Niche.

Your statement does brings to light one problem; car culture is too fast to take in architectural details like that, and that could be one reason that Houston has lost so many. New York, on the other hand, seems to have strong preservationist bloodlines. L.A....sort of.

But anyway, if more people were able to slow down and enjoy beauty like this, we might see less destruction of these treasures.

[TheNiche]

We'll make a preservationist out of you yet, Niche.

Well, for the record, I'd still rather see a vibrant Ismaili temple than a derelict old warehouse. I like what we had but I like better what we are getting.

[Guest danax]

Well, for the record, I'd still rather see a vibrant Ismaili temple than a derelict old warehouse. I like what we had but I like better what we are getting.

I've seen some new art that I think is great. That doesn't mean we have to throw away the old masterpieces.

Architecture is akin to an Indian sand painting, reminders of the transient nature of all.

[wendyps]

as much as I think it is very sad that we are loosing this building...it has sat vacant for so very long. It isn't like it just shut down and they didn't give it a chance as something else. I guess that is why there isn't as much of an uproar as there have been with other structures.

Thanks for the pics. I meant to get around to it, but never did. You should put them on that new wiki site i guess...

[TheNiche]

I've seen some new art that I think is great. That doesn't mean we have to throw away the old masterpieces.

Architecture is akin to an Indian sand painting, reminders of the transient nature of all.

I kind of think of Houston's architectural environment as a an art gallery, with the corner of Allen Pkwy. and Monstrose being a prime spot. MFA-Houston, Blaffer, and Menil own some really nice works, but even they rotate out every now and then. That's all we're doing, and we do it eternally.

[firstngoal]

I kind of think of Houston's architectural environment as a an art gallery, with the corner of Allen Pkwy. and Monstrose being a prime spot. MFA-Houston, Blaffer, and Menil own some really nice works, but even they rotate out every now and then. That's all we're doing, and we do it eternally.

Rotate, yes. Destroy history, absolutely not.

I hope everyone enjoys this new addition to the city and frequents it often.... kind of like the new Federal Reserve Building or The Royalton, right?? Both of these gems rose after historic Houston structures along Allen Parkway were demolished. But hey, who needs history??... we've got these beautiful, modern buildings that everyone just loves to take their place!! History is so overrated. Hey Houston, get the bulldozers ready for the River Oaks Theater... who needs the shoddy old piece of **** anyway.

Read sarcasm... and lots of it.

[sevfiv]

Rotate, yes. Destroy history, absolutely not.

I hope everyone enjoys this new addition to the city and frequents it often.... kind of like the new Federal Reserve Building or The Royalton, right?? Both of these gems rose after historic Houston structures along Allen Parkway were demolished. But hey, who needs history??... we've got these beautiful, modern buildings that everyone just loves to take their place!! History is so overrated. Hey Houston, get the bulldozers ready for the River Oaks Theater... who needs the shoddy old piece of **** anyway.

Read sarcasm... and lots of it.

exactly - and the menil, mfah and so forth don't destroy the works, so all that is left is someone's snapshot (maybe).

well, heck - at least when this "cycle" comes around to these new structures, it won't be as hard to say goodbye to them

Edited November 20, 2006 by sevfiv

[nmainguy]

well, heck - at least when this "cycle" comes around to these new structures, it won't be as hard to say goodbye to them

Especially since much of it will be ez-build, aggie designed, strip center "architecture".

[additional sarcasm]

[TheNiche]

Rotate, yes. Destroy history, absolutely not.

I hope everyone enjoys this new addition to the city and frequents it often.... kind of like the new Federal Reserve Building or The Royalton, right?? Both of these gems rose after historic Houston structures along Allen Parkway were demolished. But hey, who needs history??... we've got these beautiful, modern buildings that everyone just loves to take their place!! History is so overrated. Hey Houston, get the bulldozers ready for the River Oaks Theater... who needs the shoddy old piece of **** anyway.

Read sarcasm... and lots of it.

Calm down, dude. Insofar as the building has been thoroughly documented and was important enough for people to remember, history has not been destroyed. Only created and expanded upon.

Life goes on.

[firstngoal]

Calm down, dude. Insofar as the building has been thoroughly documented and was important enough for people to remember, history has not been destroyed. Only created and expanded upon.

Life goes on.

You are right about that. Life does go on... and in Houston, that means the same old wiping away of any history we ever had. I think I am entitled to express my feelings - as I was born and raised in H-town (in Montrose, in fact) - to show a little disgust and frustration that the places that are special to me have largely been destroyed to make away for mundane, if not remarkably cold, architecture (as are all of the examples I gave on Allen Parkway). Having a special place documented on paper (and, are you entirely sure about that?) or photographed for posterity brings me absolutely no comfort.

And I am so tired of the consolation we talk ourselves into... "oh, we may have lost a historic building... but look what we are getting instead!" Can we not have both?? Uhhh, sure we can.... take a look at this example.

http://www.mcmenamins.com/index.php?loc=57&id=465

Alas, we don't have the resolve - or the creativity - in our community to make projects like this one in Portland work. Forgive my rant.... I know what I am saying - esp. to The Niche - is the rambling argument of a sentimental preservationist in a city where only the rich and powerful survive. Survival of the richest in a way... our way or the highway. Well, maybe so... and I now live in Seattle where I can enjoy the history of other people in this beautiful city. It just makes me really discouraged that MY history -in Houston - is going away forever. One more building gone... another opportunity squandered.... and a part of my connection with Houston sadly removed. Selfish on my part - yes... absolutely! But it is also another nail in the coffin in understanding what Houston was... and how we got to where we are today. And as the saying goes, "those who don't understand the past are doomed to repeat it." But, life goes on....

[MidtownCoog]

Michael Barry, Sekula Gibbs (bye), Carol Alvarado, et al have no clue about saving anything.

Our best hope is Mr. Peter Brown. At least he seems to get it, but until we quit electing losers nothing will change.

(This rant not inspired by this derelect warehouse, but lack of preservation in general)

And don't even get me started on Mayor "topic de jour" White.

[Travel_n_Transport]

According to the Chronicle, this site will not be apartments but ...The Aga Khan Foundation purchased just over 11 acres at the corner of Montrose and Allen Parkway to build a Muslim Ismaili center.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/busine...ff/4344879.html

[brucesw]

Great photos, danax. Thanks.

Pardon me if I've missed them but are there any photos of the buiding in its prime as a Sears store, 1929 to 1935?

[TheNiche]

You are right about that. Life does go on... and in Houston, that means the same old wiping away of any history we ever had. I think I am entitled to express my feelings - as I was born and raised in H-town (in Montrose, in fact) - to show a little disgust and frustration that the places that are special to me have largely been destroyed to make away for mundane, if not remarkably cold, architecture (as are all of the examples I gave on Allen Parkway). Having a special place documented on paper (and, are you entirely sure about that?) or photographed for posterity brings me absolutely no comfort.

And a derelict, abandoned old warehouse that flooded out occaisionally was somehow less cold? I'll tell you what adds warmth to a building: use.

And I am so tired of the consolation we talk ourselves into... "oh, we may have lost a historic building... but look what we are getting instead!" Can we not have both?? Uhhh, sure we can.... take a look at this example.

http://www.mcmenamins.com/index.php?loc=57&id=465

Alas, we don't have the resolve - or the creativity - in our community to make projects like this one in Portland work. Forgive my rant.... I know what I am saying - esp. to The Niche - is the rambling argument of a sentimental preservationist in a city where only the rich and powerful survive. Survival of the richest in a way... our way or the highway. Well, maybe so... and I now live in Seattle where I can enjoy the history of other people in this beautiful city. It just makes me really discouraged that MY history -in Houston - is going away forever. One more building gone... another opportunity squandered.... and a part of my connection with Houston sadly removed. Selfish on my part - yes... absolutely! But it is also another nail in the coffin in understanding what Houston was... and how we got to where we are today. And as the saying goes, "those who don't understand the past are doomed to repeat it." But, life goes on....

I'm not impressed by Portland. Hence I don't live there.

You seem not to be capable of dealing very effectively with loss, but it is a necessary component of gain. What would a city look like if nothing were ever demolished? Or destroyed by fire or other means (and I mention this because if cities wouldn't allow demolition, many property owners would find other ways to do the job). Cities of several million people don't just pop up overnight. They grow slowly over the span of centuries. The lowest-density urban development occurs first, and it occurs in the area that will be the future central business district. In the span of a couple hundred years, what is there initially will be razed, rebuilt, then razed and rebuilt again. But if demolition isn't allowed, and development comes incrementally, then you've just made it so that every time something new needs to be built, it'll be built at the urban boundary, where there is developable land. Think about that kind of city. Is that a place that you'd want to live in? Not me.

This is just a warehouse, one like so many before it that have come and gone. Life goes on.

Edited November 21, 2006 by TheNiche

[houston-development]

According to the Chronicle, this site will not be apartments but ...The Aga Khan Foundation purchased just over 11 acres at the corner of Montrose and Allen Parkway to build a Muslim Ismaili center.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/busine...ff/4344879.html

tnt is right, that article was in the paper the other day.

site had major flood-plain issues and selling to a non-profit allows the new owner to bypass a huge tax increase.

[firstngoal]

And a derelict, abandoned old warehouse that flooded out occaisionally was somehow less cold? I'll tell you what adds warmth to a building: use.

I'm not impressed by Portland. Hence I don't live there.

You seem not to be capable of dealing very effectively with loss, but it is a necessary component of gain. What would a city look like if nothing were ever demolished? Or destroyed by fire or other means (and I mention this because if cities wouldn't allow demolition, many property owners would find other ways to do the job). Cities of several million people don't just pop up overnight. They grow slowly over the span of centuries. The lowest-density urban development occurs first, and it occurs in the area that will be the future central business district. In the span of a couple hundred years, what is there initially will be razed, rebuilt, then razed and rebuilt again. But if demolition isn't allowed, and development comes incrementally, then you've just made it so that every time something new needs to be built, it'll be built at the urban boundary, where there is developable land. Think about that kind of city. Is that a place that you'd want to live in? Not me.

This is just a warehouse, one like so many before it that have come and gone. Life goes on.

There is no need to comment on my ability to deal with architectural loss... c'mon, when you live in Houston, it is a constant. And I did mention that these were selfish feelings.... take me at face value when I say that.

We have totally different views on this. Clearly places I cherish you could care less about. Things I view as cold you view as useful and important. What I view as a negative you view as a positive. Period.... and absolutely fine.

Michael Barry, Sekula Gibbs (bye), Carol Alvarado, et al have no clue about saving anything.

Our best hope is Mr. Peter Brown. At least he seems to get it, but until we quit electing losers nothing will change.

(This rant not inspired by this derelect warehouse, but lack of preservation in general)

And don't even get me started on Mayor "topic de jour" White.

Dead on. The lack of even the concept - or importance -of even minimal forms of preservation laws is what gets my ire up. The warehouse is - like all the other buildings on Allen Parkway I mentioned - just another example.

[wendyps]

And I am so tired of the consolation we talk ourselves into... "oh, we may have lost a historic building... but look what we are getting instead!" Can we not have both?? Uhhh, sure we can.... take a look at this example.

http://www.mcmenamins.com/index.php?loc=57&id=465

I was so impressed by mcmenamins when i was there! we went to an old farm and just hopped about to different buildings, having a drink in each, had dinner in another old building...what an amazing idea. and they rake in the cash! not only do people just go for the evening, but at the same time they have events and this one had hotel rooms...

what a totally neat thing it would have been if they had converted this site that way. Heights Yankee had always said it would make a killer bar/restaurant.

wish I would have thought of it years ago and made a proposal of some sort...

[nmainguy]

Heights Yankee had always said it would make a killer bar/restaurant.

wish I would have thought of it years ago and made a proposal of some sort...

Yeah but someone said pictures have been taken so history is preserved. I think they also said something like, "This is just a warehouse, one like so many before it that have come and gone. Life goes on."

Yes indeed. Life does go on-perhaps with a lessor quality but it does seem to go on.

Edited November 22, 2006 by nmainguy

[TheNiche]

We have totally different views on this. Clearly places I cherish you could care less about. Things I view as cold you view as useful and important. What I view as a negative you view as a positive. Period.... and absolutely fine.

To be perfectly clear, I don't like demolition. I don't see this as entirely positive. I see there being a cost (-) and a benefit (+). The one is greater than the other. That's all.

[wendyps]

To be perfectly clear, I don't like demolition. I don't see this as entirely positive. I see there being a cost (-) and a benefit (+). The one is greater than the other. That's all.

and what several people are trying to say to you is that cost (and benefit) boil down to more than just $$'s. The $$ game can be spun in many ways. The preservation game ,however, is one directional.

[TheNiche]

and what several people are trying to say to you is that cost (and benefit) boil down to more than just $$'s. The $$ game can be spun in many ways. The preservation game ,however, is one directional.

No. I'm talking about economic benefits and costs, not financial. Read this Wikipedia entry about the concept of Utility. You'll see what I mean.

[wendyps]

No. I'm talking about economic benefits and costs, not financial. Read this Wikipedia entry about the concept of Utility. You'll see what I mean.

beauty, history, memories, potential and "feel" are lost that can never be recovered. Sometimes, there is no help for it...but all the time? no, impatience and the all mighty dollar are usually to blame.

I/we UNDERSTAND where you are coming from!!! please, take the time to look at it from another direction and realize that more is lost than bricks and wood. If you did, I would take the time to read more of your posts...as it is, I feel they all have the same message of $$$$$$$$$. been there, read that. you are clearly very intelligent and well "spoken", however, I don't want to listen to everything politicians say either, cause it is always a spin on the same bottom line.

[TheNiche]

beauty, history, memories, potential and "feel" are lost that can never be recovered. Sometimes, there is no help for it...but all the time? no, impatience and the all mighty dollar are usually to blame.

I/we UNDERSTAND where you are coming from!!! please, take the time to look at it from another direction and realize that more is lost than bricks and wood. If you did, I would take the time to read more of your posts...as it is, I feel they all have the same message of $$$$$$$$$. been there, read that. you are clearly very intelligent and well "spoken", however, I don't want to listen to everything politicians say either, cause it is always a spin on the same bottom line.

Hey, nobody ever said that your utility function had to equate to mine. There are buildings to which I have an attachment, believe it or not...but vacant and derelict warehouses that occaisionally flood don't rank very high on the list.

[sevfiv]

the significance of the era in which it was built, the history of the tenants, the craftmanship, the organic detailing, and the decreasing amount of art deco examples we have here - all things that tie in to making this place not just another abandoned warehouse - to me.

too bad someone who could creatively re-use it didn't buy it.

example - the sunset coffee building on buffalo bayou - the buffalo bayou partnership has plans (fingers crossed) with lake/flato to re-use the building. the first floor floods all of the time, so the plan for that is to make it in to a canoe/other-boat-type-things rental shop, and put everything else (restaurant, office, and so forth) on the upper floors.

it's still in the works from what i heard as recently as last sunday.

http://www.buffalobayou.org/sunsetcoffee.html

Edited November 22, 2006 by sevfiv

[Guest danax]

There are buildings to which I have an attachment, believe it or not...but vacant and derelict warehouses that occaisionally flood don't rank very high on the list.

This was a large, full-service retail store, maybe the first outside of the CBD. It only became a warehouse after the flood.

There is just such a callous attitude here and that, more than anything, has me negative about Houston at times. We lack a good balance between historic and new. One of the reasons I like city living is the get the feeling of history and it's that same feeling that makes suburban living so unappealing. Plain buildings become something else when they survive the decades. Even plain buildings become special to a degree when they survive a long time, and this one wasn't plain, it started out special.

Anyway, we've talked this point into the ground but hopefully the so-called urban renaissance and all of those who are responsible for it are also sensitive to these things and so the ordinances will eventually change as the city's people continue to.