Oak Lawn

[YakuzaIce]

Must be the Dallas version of Montrose 1100

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LOL, what happened to him anyway?

[banking214]

Actually, Oaklawn is a very desirable neighborhood, and improving everyday. There are parts of OL that have not transitioned yet, but there are also areas that are well into redevelopment. OL is also surrounded by either very affluent neighborhoods or by transitioning areas. From Cedar Springs - the main strip in Oaklawn - the closer you get to Maple Ave, the worse the neighborhood gets... but if you go in any other direction you're in very high dollar real estate. I was driving around OL today just checking out all the changes that are going on. Right now there is a 9 story luxery residential tower being built at Oaklawn and Prescott, I think. I noticed the sign said the condo's will be priced from $600K - $1.5 Million. I've also noticed that a the area seems to be exploding with Brownstone-like townhomes and other high dollar residential zero-lot line developments. There are also high dollar redevelopment projects springing up west of Cedar Springs and I believe the crime rate in that area is not violent crime, but more theft-type crimes... typically. Granted, it's still crime... but I don't think the murder/assault rate in OL is as bad as some on this thread have made it out to be. And, it's certainly NOTHING like the murder/assault rate in South Dallas - where the majority of Dallas' violent crimes take place. However, there are drugs and prostitution in the OL area... But that just goes with any entertainment district that caters to young party-goers. Unfortunately, the gay community in Dallas that centers around the OL community, is suffering from the same drug problems that seem to be the new plague in gay communities around the country... meth, heroin, and X and G, as well as date rape drugs, are all known to be very popular in the gay subculture and there have even been articles in the papers about it recently. Where you have recreational drug users, you will usually find other crimes - prostitution, theft, sex crimes, etc. However, OL has also increased the amount of police officers in the area due to some past problems with hate crimes, etc.... Those crimes seem to be diminishing.... Oak Lawn is the next up-and-coming area of Dallas.... 5 years from now it will be just an extension of Uptown/Turtle Creek/Highland Park.

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. . .the new plague in gay communities around the country... meth, heroin, and X and G, as well as date rape drugs, are all known to be very popular in the gay subculture. . .

Don't forget cocaine. It is almost to a point where it is out of control. I see people strung out all weekend. We are not talking shipping clerks or retail works. Doctors, lawyers, bankers, it is all over. I volunteer every other weekend at a center here in Dallas and I am constantly amazed and saddened by what I see.

[WestGrayGuy]

I would agree with banking214. MANY people (mostly gay) I know are fighting addictions to some of those drugs. The thing you didn't mention is that some of these drugs (I would crystal meth is by far the worst) lead to risky sexual behaviors which I believe are giving rise to a new more potent version of the HIV virus.

This is widespread across the country.

[MidtownCoog]

So what's the solution?

Anyway, I don't even see any similarity between Oak Lawn and Montrose.

It's Apples to Organges.

[banking214]

I would agree with banking214.  MANY people (mostly gay) I know are fighting addictions to some of those drugs.  The thing you didn't mention is that some of these drugs (I would crystal meth is by far the worst) lead to risky sexual behaviors which I believe are giving rise to a new more potent version of the HIV virus.

This is widespread across the country.

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Every piece of literature I read seems to suggest their is a correlation between drugs like crystal and unsafe sex. I think a lot of this behavior is also some sort of backlash against all the messages we have been bombarded with over the last 20 years. I think some people get to a point where they say "enough already, I am doing what I want to do".

[banking214]

So what's the solution?

Anyway, I don't even see any similarity between Oak Lawn and Montrose.

It's Apples to Organges.

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Personally, I prefer Oaklawn. Just prettier (North of Lemmon) and feels a little cleaner. South of Lemmon (Where the bars are) is still going through a big transition. In 2-3 years, I really don't think it will be the same. I think Montrose is going through the same thing. Gentrification is happening because it is so close to downtown. The only negative I see in this appears to be that the neighborhoods lose their identities. Oaklawn and Montrose have way too much history to be lost to the tides of progress.

[MidtownCoog]

Back in the day, gays had to

[dbigtex56]

And if the "community" is really looking for wider acceptance, it's time to enter the "mainstream" and quit hiding out.

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You mean, like the way Jews "hide out" in Meyerland?

[banking214]

Back in the day, gays had to

[slfunk]

Personally, I prefer Oaklawn. Just prettier (North of Lemmon) and feels a little cleaner. South of Lemmon (Where the bars are) is still going through a big transition. In 2-3 years, I really don't think it will be the same. I think Montrose is going through the same thing. Gentrification is happening because it is so close to downtown. The only negative I see in this appears to be that the neighborhoods lose their identities. Oaklawn and Montrose have way too much history to be lost to the tides of progress.

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Don't know if this has been posted before, I do know it is on the skyscraper forum under the Dallas thread for compiliations. There are several developments that are taking hold stretching from OakLawn to Knight Street (near Tom Thumb) and from Maple to Cedar Springs. This does not include what has already been built near Cedar Springs and the Tollway. It was just reported that some "uptown" style developments are about to break ground in Oak Lawn. One includes a parking garage with retail and 4 stories of apts on top. In the same development an adjacent building will be surrounding the parking garage and create an outdoor courtyard some 300 apartments. There is a second similar project breaking ground in the same area, as well as, another developer renovating old apartments into for scale condos (starting at $200,000). The projected rental rate is $1.25- 1.40 / sq ft. Of course that will be next to some former "All Bills Paid" apartments.

[banking214]

Don't know if this has been posted before, I do know it is on the skyscraper forum under the Dallas thread for compiliations.  There are several developments that are taking hold stretching from OakLawn to Knight Street (near Tom Thumb) and from Maple to Cedar Springs.  This does not include what has already been built near Cedar Springs and the Tollway.  It was just reported that some "uptown" style developments are about to break ground in Oak Lawn.  One includes a parking garage with retail and 4 stories of apts on top.  In the same development an adjacent building will be surrounding the parking garage and create an outdoor courtyard some 300 apartments.  There is a second similar project breaking ground in the same area, as well as, another developer renovating old apartments into for scale condos (starting at $200,000).  The projected rental rate is $1.25- 1.40 / sq ft.  Of course that will be next to some former "All Bills Paid" apartments.

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These are a few of the newest ones, not sure how far along.

http://www.sullivancondos.com/

http://www.valleracondos.com/Home.aspx

[MidtownCoog]

Just don't get mad if us breeders move in.

I used to work on Denton Drive. Did lunch at Hunky's, hit the card shop, Union Station after work, etc.

I much prefer the grittyness of Montrose.

[Dallasboi]

Quote:("I much prefer the grittyness of Montrose")

Is that just because you are from Houston or u really copared the two destinations.? I think Montrose could become a successfull district if the just go ahead an put some planning into it and concentrate more on a pedestrian enviromen(like Oak Lawn)it would be just as or even more affluent than oaklawn.Don't get me wrong....I can point out a million things that could be better in the Oak llawn district but it seems to be on the right tract for the future. However I do think that Houston's JR's Blows Dallas's away and I live here in Dallas.And over-all I think Houston will be just fine.......I'll visit anytime.

[MidtownCoog]

Is that just because you are from Houston or u really copared the two destinations.?

Lived in Dallas for 4 years. Worked around the corner from Oak Lawn at Southwest Airlines HQ. Spent plenty of time down there. We would hit Village Station and that other bar on the corner that reminded me of Cheers. (And I am not gay).

Montrose feels real, and the mix of people is more intresting. In additon to the "gay" folks, Monstrose has kooky old hippies, professors, street kids, a university and tons of alternative shops, #s, etc.

Oak Lawn felt like a microcosim of "gayness" surrounded by illegal aliens on Maple.

And speaking as a native, I don't think our goal is to make Montrose "affluent". We just want to keep it real.

[RedScare]

Coog, you beat me to the punch. I don't want everything to become "affluent". There are already too many areas that are becoming too expensive for the people with personality to live in. Frankly, affluent people are boring as hell, unless sitting in a 'bistro' comparing what you bought at some overpriced 'boutique' is considered exciting.

I hope the Montrose can keep its 'gritty' character, though I feel the beautiful people will eventually snuff it out. If the residents of Oaklawn like all the expensive high and mid rise condos coming in, more power to 'em. But, I hope Houston can keep a few of its 'comfortable' areas around.

[MidtownCoog]

Affluent is such a funny word.

1 : flowing in abundance <affluent streams> <affluent creativity>

2 : having a generously sufficient and typically increasing supply of material possessions <our affluent society>

synonym see RICH

[banking214]

Coog, you beat me to the punch.  I don't want everything to become "affluent".  There are already too many areas that are becoming too expensive for the people with personality to live in.  Frankly, affluent people are boring as hell, unless sitting in a 'bistro' comparing what you bought at some overpriced 'boutique' is considered exciting.

I hope the Montrose can keep its 'gritty' character, though I feel the beautiful people will eventually snuff it out.  If the residents of Oaklawn like all the expensive high and mid rise condos coming in, more power to 'em.  But, I hope Houston can keep a few of its 'comfortable' areas around.

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Hey, nothing wrong with being affluent and pretty. That is a joke. Either way you look at it, people are starting to discover the joys of being close to the center of the city. Houston is seeing it and so is Dallas.

[MidtownCoog]

people are starting to discover the joys of being close to the center of the city

I don't know about Oak Lawn, but Montrose has been in motion for many, many years.

Heck, Howard Hughes used to live on Montrose!

[The Great Hizzy!]

Not that I'm particularly interested in comparing A to B, but I will agree with 'Coog and RS in that the Montrose communties seem to not be interested in going upscale, afluent or anything of the sort. They'd like to be laid back, funky and, well, green. Hell, a great deal of the graffiti found in the Montrose is intentional. Some of the landscaping is unruly so as to preserve the integrity of the soul and varieties of flora.

If you hover around Montrose in any direction, it reflects a great deal of the arboreal prestige that Houston does have. I think that's why the Tremont gets crapped on; it feels so out of place, feels too clean and asthetic, and seems to steel some of the enchanted woodiness (not a word, I know) of the area.

I will agree that some things like new sidewalks along Westheimer--especially west of Montrose--would be nice. And Fairview really needs to be done from Montrose to about Genesee.

What Oaklawn seems to be moving towards is Uptown Dallas, which makes sense given its proximity. Montrose, though only a 1.5 miles SW of DT, and about 0.75 miles north of the Museum District, seems to be kind of on an island, with no real partner to emulate. This may change, though, as Fourth Ward and Midtown continue to gentrify and renew, don't know.

But anyway, Montrose isn't really just a "gay" hood anymore. It really is "funkytown" as far as Houston is concerned. I see more hippies and hipsters (I hate that word, BTW) nowadays than anyone else.

[banking214]

I don't know about Oak Lawn, but Montrose has been in motion for many, many years.

Heck, Howard Hughes used to live on Montrose!

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It seems like Montrose has been for atleast 7-8 years. I just remember going to

Daiquiri Factory in high school/college and it will still really shady. That was probably in 94-95. But everytime I go home, the area has some new buildings with signs that say "For Sale, Starting at $250,000+". Just like Dallas.

I just hate when I see those old homes, that could be rehabed, torn down. It seems like such a waste. There is history in those homes and so many others.

[The Great Hizzy!]

It really does depend on the 'hood. Montrose is sort of an all encompassing name for the region but it's actually several different 'hoods. For example, Westmoreland is traditionally affluent, with large even mansionesque homes, and a great number of them have been preserved.

Then you head north to North Montrose and it's a mix of new-age townhome construction, apartment complexes, patio homes and a variety of aged homes from the 1910s - 1930s.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Montrose area hoods include:

Montrose proper

Westmoreland

North Montrose

Cherryhurst

Avondale

Mandell Place

I could be missing a couple but you get the point.

[slfunk]

Oak Lawn area suits developer

Third project there is set to break ground

Christine Perez

Staff Writer

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/.../25/story3.html

"......Carnahan's third condo project, Vallera, a Tuscan villa-style complex on Holland at Oak Lawn Avenue, will break ground in 30 days. Nine of the 27 units, which range in size from 1,300 square feet to more than 1,800 square feet and in price from $199,000 to $355,000, have already been sold....All are two-bedroom flats, some with an extra study. Standard features include bamboo and hardwood floors, stainless steel appliances, granite countertops and travertine floors.....Construction will wrap up in early September on The Sullivan, a 30-unit development at 4343 Gilbert Ave., where all but five units have been sold. They start at $185,000 and go up to $320,000 and range in size from 1,100 square feet to 1,600 square feet......"

"....."Oak Lawn is almost built out," he said. "Everything is boxed in by the highways; it has just been a matter of filling in the middle....."We really like the neighborhood and are going to try to stay as long as we can. They just don't grow 150-year-old trees anymore. But we're also starting to look to the east; it's where everything is going next, geographically."......"

[MidtownCoog]

And boy-howdy, are they ugly!

[slfunk]

And boy-howdy, are they ugly!

Simmer down..... opinions or only subjective.... Not a fan of it, but hey better then what is there IMO.

[MidtownCoog]

Well you can kiss those 150 year old trees goodbye.

Looks like they are MIA.

[Guest danax]

And boy-howdy, are they ugly!

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C'mon man. Plaid might be making a comeback, but somehow those green shutters look inapproriate. On a 1940s cottage they'd be fine.

[The Great Hizzy!]

I thought the plaid was supposed to be spanish roofing?

[MidtownCoog]

Looks like every other apartment in Dallas to me.

Did y'all see the DMN article on apartment demand in Dallas this Monday?

Apparently, they can't build them fast enough.

I don't think this is a good thing at all.

[The Great Hizzy!]

I've always felt the Dallas apartment market was underbuilt. There weren't many relatively speaking inside the LBJ until they started building them in the late 90s. I think they're really just trying to catch up with demand finally.

But I understand your point... if not done properly, and if the demographis shift rapidly, these places can become harbingers of decay and crime, like those in Gulfton and lower Sharpstown.