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dbigtex56

Oak Lawn

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I've read all the Dallas posts, and have seen little mention made of Oak Lawn. Having never been there, any information or pictures would be appreciated.

How does it compare with the Montrose? Is it part of a larger neighborhood? Are property values going up or down? Is it perceived as 'safe'? Pedestrian oriented?

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As someone in the know about both neighborhoods. Let me tell you that Montrose is way safer than Oaklawn. Most of my friends in Dallas will tell you stories of burgularies and car thefts in Oaklawn. I will not try to pretend that Montrose is safe just safer.

Oaklawn is surrounded by lower income neighborhoods. In fact there is a very popular bar one one side of Oaklawn (off Maple ave) that has a shuttle to it because the neighborhood between it and Cedar Springs (the main strip) is so bad.

I always feel less safe in Dallas, the crime capital of the country.

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Oak Lawn isn't surrounded by low income neighborhoods. To the west, yes it is, and some of the crime has spilled over. But to the north it borders Highland Park, to the east it borders Turtle Creek and to the south it borders the western portion of Uptown. All far above average income neighborhoods. It's not as urban as Uptown yet, but is very similar to Knox Park in that it has an urban village type area in its heart. Very popular gay hood in Dallas. Zoning calls for lots of townhomes and condos with small setbacks which is very similar to State-Thomas for the future. There is lots of development going on there.

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Dallas is the number one crime leader in big cities. Here is a link to story I found referring to this stat:

Although that statistic is true, I don't see Dallas' crime as that bad. It just depends which area you are in. In North Dallas, Uptown, Turtle Creek its seems very safe. Lots of single women jogging or walking their dogs (which I assume one would not do in an unsafe neighborhood).

In south Dallas and East Dallas -- its rough. I wouldn't want to be there at night. But then again, I'm a nervous white guy. Oak Lawn is in between. East of the Tollway is rough. But the northern edges of Oak Lawn look safe. The eastern edges are very affluent.

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Rantanamo:

I stand corrected. I meant to say that the interior part of Oak Lawn is fairly unsafe not necessarily low income rather than the surrounding neighborhoods. Let me be specific about the areas I referring to. The area is bound by Cedar Springs (north), Oak Lawn (East), Maple (South) and Wycliff (West). Also scary, the area just North of Cedar Springs but South of Lemmon ave. Several of my friends' cars have been broken into here.

This area is much less safe than Montrose...the original point of this post. I have parked for years in both Montrose and Oak Lawn and I would pick Montrose any day.

Dallasite, I will refer you to my link below for the following story, written by the Dallas Morning News.

Dallas has No.1 big-city crime rate

BY MICHAEL GRABELL

The Dallas Morning News

Have a good day.

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I used to volunteer at Scottish Rite. There are some nice areas in Oak Lawn, but this particular area always seemed kind of seedy. Perhaps it was because it was near Harry Hines Blvd, which is famous for having more hookers than pedestrians.

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But wait, my mom said that she and my Dad first met while she was on Harry Hines.

OH DEAR GOD --- I'm a hooker's son!

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Maybe he said that your mother had hairy hinds (legs). Your mother could've been a hippy.

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I don't know Montrose well at all so I can't make a comparison but I think you'll see a major transformation in Oak Lawn over the next 5-10 years. It's already started as property values rise in nearby areas like Uptown and the demand for in-town living continues to grow. New condos have recently opened or are going up throughout the area.

This is going to put the squeeze on the older apartments in Oak Lawn, especially the ones that are eyesores. Sites like intownliving.com and (I think) dallasintown.com are just two examples of local real estate agents who are betting on an upscale future for Oak Lawn.

On top of that, there's been a recent refurbishment of some of the businesses along Cedar Springs. With the huge Victory Project opening downtown and the increasing cosmopolitan feel of McKinney Avenue in Uptown, that dynamic is bound to spread to neighboring areas like Oak Lawn. Just give it time.

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UrbanLandscape

Hookers WITH hairy legs, or Hookers AND hairy legs?

It's a very important distinction that needs verification, y'know.

Ricco

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Why?!  This talk of hookers and hairy legs is much more fun!

Then start a new topic about it in Way Off Topic, please.

Subdude

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To Harrymoto:

Montrose is going threw the same phase. Many new residential projects are being spruce up alond Montrose Blvd., Westheimer, and there quiet nice. Montrose may now have new high-rise buildings being built, yet, but, there are alot of Mid-rise and Low-rise development going on

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there used to be a lot of hate crimes in oak lawn, i don't know if that has changed or not. even though the stats are pretty bad for OL, I still feel safer there than Montrose. I think it has something to do with the state of repairs in the area. The sidewalks are horrid in Montrose and a lot of the streetlights are blacked out by overgrown trees. Add to that rundown and boarded up houses, and the hookas on every corner...

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I feel much safer in Montrose than Oaklawn. My friends in Dallas all know somene or they themselves been a victim of crime. My friends and I in Houston do not have this same issue. When I was in Dallas over Memorial Day weekend a homeless man was killed in the parking of the Cathedral of Hope church.

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In Houston, it's just central americans killing other central americans.

Stay away from El Loco cantina and all is well.

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I have lived in both cities and spent time in both neighborhoods. They are very much the same. They are both late night entertainment areas that, by nature, are targets of crime. The reality is that both neighborhoods have areas that are perfectly safe to park and walk and others that are wise to avoid. Regarding a murder at the Catherdral of Hope parking lot: has there never been a murder anywhere in the greater Montrose area?

Anecdotes and perception will determine how comfortable you are, but may not be reality. How "safe" an area "feels" has a lot to do with how familiar you are with the place. If you are less familiar with an area you may perceive it as less safe, although it may be perfectly fine. Whereas when you know an area well, you know where to go and, perhaps subconsciously, avoid areas that may be more risky. After numerous visits to a particular place without incident you may even develop a false sense of security when you should be more aware.

All-in-all these two area are much more similar than dissimilar in most manners including crime.

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Actually, Oaklawn is a very desirable neighborhood, and improving everyday. There are parts of OL that have not transitioned yet, but there are also areas that are well into redevelopment. OL is also surrounded by either very affluent neighborhoods or by transitioning areas. From Cedar Springs - the main strip in Oaklawn - the closer you get to Maple Ave, the worse the neighborhood gets... but if you go in any other direction you're in very high dollar real estate. I was driving around OL today just checking out all the changes that are going on. Right now there is a 9 story luxery residential tower being built at Oaklawn and Prescott, I think. I noticed the sign said the condo's will be priced from $600K - $1.5 Million. I've also noticed that a the area seems to be exploding with Brownstone-like townhomes and other high dollar residential zero-lot line developments. There are also high dollar redevelopment projects springing up west of Cedar Springs and I believe the crime rate in that area is not violent crime, but more theft-type crimes... typically. Granted, it's still crime... but I don't think the murder/assault rate in OL is as bad as some on this thread have made it out to be. And, it's certainly NOTHING like the murder/assault rate in South Dallas - where the majority of Dallas' violent crimes take place. However, there are drugs and prostitution in the OL area... But that just goes with any entertainment district that caters to young party-goers. Unfortunately, the gay community in Dallas that centers around the OL community, is suffering from the same drug problems that seem to be the new plague in gay communities around the country... meth, heroin, and X and G, as well as date rape drugs, are all known to be very popular in the gay subculture and there have even been articles in the papers about it recently. Where you have recreational drug users, you will usually find other crimes - prostitution, theft, sex crimes, etc. However, OL has also increased the amount of police officers in the area due to some past problems with hate crimes, etc.... Those crimes seem to be diminishing.... Oak Lawn is the next up-and-coming area of Dallas.... 5 years from now it will be just an extension of Uptown/Turtle Creek/Highland Park.

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West Grey Guy...U are Halarious!!!The montrose neighborhood Is far more creepy than Oak Lawn. Now don't get me wrong The crime statistics may not say the same but as far as feeling safe ...I have to go with Oak Lawn. Houstonians refer to this area as an area comparable to oak lawn but it is not as weel planned and concentrated as the oak Lawn area and it is not as affluent. I did have a great time at "Bartini's" but West Grey I'll walk alone in Oak Lawn at4am fast befor montrose....Sorry!!!

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West Grey Guy...U are Halarious!!!The montrose neighborhood Is far more creepy than Oak Lawn. Now don't get me wrong The crime statistics may not say the same but as far as feeling safe ...I have to go with Oak Lawn. Houstonians refer to this area as an area comparable to oak lawn but it is not as weel planned and concentrated as the oak Lawn area and it is not as affluent. I did have a great time at "Bartini's" but  West Grey I'll walk alone in Oak Lawn at4am fast befor montrose....Sorry!!!

Must be the Dallas version of Montrose 1100

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Actually, Oaklawn is a very desirable neighborhood, and improving everyday. There are parts of OL that have not transitioned yet, but there are also areas that are well into redevelopment. OL is also surrounded by either very affluent neighborhoods or by transitioning areas. From Cedar Springs - the main strip in Oaklawn - the closer you get to Maple Ave, the worse the neighborhood gets... but if you go in any other direction you're in very high dollar real estate. I was driving around OL today just checking out all the changes that are going on. Right now there is a 9 story luxery residential tower being built at Oaklawn and Prescott, I think. I noticed the sign said the condo's will be priced from $600K - $1.5 Million. I've also noticed that a the area seems to be exploding with Brownstone-like townhomes and other high dollar residential zero-lot line developments. There are also high dollar redevelopment projects springing up west of Cedar Springs and I believe the crime rate in that area is not violent crime, but more theft-type crimes... typically. Granted, it's still crime... but I don't think the murder/assault rate in OL is as bad as some on this thread have made it out to be. And, it's certainly NOTHING like the murder/assault rate in South Dallas - where the majority of Dallas' violent crimes take place. However, there are drugs and prostitution in the OL area... But that just goes with any entertainment district that caters to young party-goers. Unfortunately, the gay community in Dallas that centers around the OL community, is suffering from the same drug problems that seem to be the new plague in gay communities around the country... meth, heroin, and X and G, as well as date rape drugs, are all known to be very popular in the gay subculture and there have even been articles in the papers about it recently. Where you have recreational drug users, you will usually find other crimes - prostitution, theft, sex crimes, etc. However, OL has also increased the amount of police officers in the area due to some past problems with hate crimes, etc.... Those crimes seem to be diminishing.... Oak Lawn is the next up-and-coming area of Dallas.... 5 years from now it will be just an extension of Uptown/Turtle Creek/Highland Park.

. . .the new plague in gay communities around the country... meth, heroin, and X and G, as well as date rape drugs, are all known to be very popular in the gay subculture. . .

Don't forget cocaine. It is almost to a point where it is out of control. I see people strung out all weekend. We are not talking shipping clerks or retail works. Doctors, lawyers, bankers, it is all over. I volunteer every other weekend at a center here in Dallas and I am constantly amazed and saddened by what I see.

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I would agree with banking214. MANY people (mostly gay) I know are fighting addictions to some of those drugs. The thing you didn't mention is that some of these drugs (I would crystal meth is by far the worst) lead to risky sexual behaviors which I believe are giving rise to a new more potent version of the HIV virus.

This is widespread across the country.

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So what's the solution?

Anyway, I don't even see any similarity between Oak Lawn and Montrose.

It's Apples to Organges.

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I would agree with banking214.  MANY people (mostly gay) I know are fighting addictions to some of those drugs.  The thing you didn't mention is that some of these drugs (I would crystal meth is by far the worst) lead to risky sexual behaviors which I believe are giving rise to a new more potent version of the HIV virus.

This is widespread across the country.

Every piece of literature I read seems to suggest their is a correlation between drugs like crystal and unsafe sex. I think a lot of this behavior is also some sort of backlash against all the messages we have been bombarded with over the last 20 years. I think some people get to a point where they say "enough already, I am doing what I want to do".

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So what's the solution?

Anyway, I don't even see any similarity between Oak Lawn and Montrose.

It's Apples to Organges.

Personally, I prefer Oaklawn. Just prettier (North of Lemmon) and feels a little cleaner. South of Lemmon (Where the bars are) is still going through a big transition. In 2-3 years, I really don't think it will be the same. I think Montrose is going through the same thing. Gentrification is happening because it is so close to downtown. The only negative I see in this appears to be that the neighborhoods lose their identities. Oaklawn and Montrose have way too much history to be lost to the tides of progress.

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And if the "community" is really looking for wider acceptance, it's time to enter the "mainstream" and quit hiding out.

You mean, like the way Jews "hide out" in Meyerland? :blink:

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Personally, I prefer Oaklawn. Just prettier (North of Lemmon) and feels a little cleaner. South of Lemmon (Where the bars are) is still going through a big transition. In 2-3 years, I really don't think it will be the same. I think Montrose is going through the same thing. Gentrification is happening because it is so close to downtown. The only negative I see in this appears to be that the neighborhoods lose their identities. Oaklawn and Montrose have way too much history to be lost to the tides of progress.

Don't know if this has been posted before, I do know it is on the skyscraper forum under the Dallas thread for compiliations. There are several developments that are taking hold stretching from OakLawn to Knight Street (near Tom Thumb) and from Maple to Cedar Springs. This does not include what has already been built near Cedar Springs and the Tollway. It was just reported that some "uptown" style developments are about to break ground in Oak Lawn. One includes a parking garage with retail and 4 stories of apts on top. In the same development an adjacent building will be surrounding the parking garage and create an outdoor courtyard some 300 apartments. There is a second similar project breaking ground in the same area, as well as, another developer renovating old apartments into for scale condos (starting at $200,000). The projected rental rate is $1.25- 1.40 / sq ft. Of course that will be next to some former "All Bills Paid" apartments.

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Don't know if this has been posted before, I do know it is on the skyscraper forum under the Dallas thread for compiliations.  There are several developments that are taking hold stretching from OakLawn to Knight Street (near Tom Thumb) and from Maple to Cedar Springs.  This does not include what has already been built near Cedar Springs and the Tollway.  It was just reported that some "uptown" style developments are about to break ground in Oak Lawn.  One includes a parking garage with retail and 4 stories of apts on top.  In the same development an adjacent building will be surrounding the parking garage and create an outdoor courtyard some 300 apartments.  There is a second similar project breaking ground in the same area, as well as, another developer renovating old apartments into for scale condos (starting at $200,000).  The projected rental rate is $1.25- 1.40 / sq ft.  Of course that will be next to some former "All Bills Paid" apartments.

These are a few of the newest ones, not sure how far along.

http://www.sullivancondos.com/

http://www.valleracondos.com/Home.aspx

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Just don't get mad if us breeders move in.

I used to work on Denton Drive. Did lunch at Hunky's, hit the card shop, Union Station after work, etc.

I much prefer the grittyness of Montrose.

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Quote:("I much prefer the grittyness of Montrose")

Is that just because you are from Houston or u really copared the two destinations.? I think Montrose could become a successfull district if the just go ahead an put some planning into it and concentrate more on a pedestrian enviromen(like Oak Lawn)it would be just as or even more affluent than oaklawn.Don't get me wrong....I can point out a million things that could be better in the Oak llawn district but it seems to be on the right tract for the future. However I do think that Houston's JR's Blows Dallas's away and I live here in Dallas.And over-all I think Houston will be just fine.......I'll visit anytime. ;)

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Is that just because you are from Houston or u really copared the two destinations.?

Lived in Dallas for 4 years. Worked around the corner from Oak Lawn at Southwest Airlines HQ. Spent plenty of time down there. We would hit Village Station and that other bar on the corner that reminded me of Cheers. (And I am not gay).

Montrose feels real, and the mix of people is more intresting. In additon to the "gay" folks, Monstrose has kooky old hippies, professors, street kids, a university and tons of alternative shops, #s, etc.

Oak Lawn felt like a microcosim of "gayness" surrounded by illegal aliens on Maple.

And speaking as a native, I don't think our goal is to make Montrose "affluent". We just want to keep it real.

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Coog, you beat me to the punch. I don't want everything to become "affluent". There are already too many areas that are becoming too expensive for the people with personality to live in. Frankly, affluent people are boring as hell, unless sitting in a 'bistro' comparing what you bought at some overpriced 'boutique' is considered exciting.

I hope the Montrose can keep its 'gritty' character, though I feel the beautiful people will eventually snuff it out. If the residents of Oaklawn like all the expensive high and mid rise condos coming in, more power to 'em. But, I hope Houston can keep a few of its 'comfortable' areas around.

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Affluent is such a funny word.

1 : flowing in abundance <affluent streams> <affluent creativity>

2 : having a generously sufficient and typically increasing supply of material possessions <our affluent society>

synonym see RICH

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Coog, you beat me to the punch.  I don't want everything to become "affluent".  There are already too many areas that are becoming too expensive for the people with personality to live in.  Frankly, affluent people are boring as hell, unless sitting in a 'bistro' comparing what you bought at some overpriced 'boutique' is considered exciting.

I hope the Montrose can keep its 'gritty' character, though I feel the beautiful people will eventually snuff it out.  If the residents of Oaklawn like all the expensive high and mid rise condos coming in, more power to 'em.  But, I hope Houston can keep a few of its 'comfortable' areas around.

Hey, nothing wrong with being affluent and pretty. That is a joke. Either way you look at it, people are starting to discover the joys of being close to the center of the city. Houston is seeing it and so is Dallas.

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people are starting to discover the joys of being close to the center of the city

I don't know about Oak Lawn, but Montrose has been in motion for many, many years.

Heck, Howard Hughes used to live on Montrose!

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Not that I'm particularly interested in comparing A to B, but I will agree with 'Coog and RS in that the Montrose communties seem to not be interested in going upscale, afluent or anything of the sort. They'd like to be laid back, funky and, well, green. Hell, a great deal of the graffiti found in the Montrose is intentional. Some of the landscaping is unruly so as to preserve the integrity of the soul and varieties of flora.

If you hover around Montrose in any direction, it reflects a great deal of the arboreal prestige that Houston does have. I think that's why the Tremont gets crapped on; it feels so out of place, feels too clean and asthetic, and seems to steel some of the enchanted woodiness (not a word, I know) of the area.

I will agree that some things like new sidewalks along Westheimer--especially west of Montrose--would be nice. And Fairview really needs to be done from Montrose to about Genesee.

What Oaklawn seems to be moving towards is Uptown Dallas, which makes sense given its proximity. Montrose, though only a 1.5 miles SW of DT, and about 0.75 miles north of the Museum District, seems to be kind of on an island, with no real partner to emulate. This may change, though, as Fourth Ward and Midtown continue to gentrify and renew, don't know.

But anyway, Montrose isn't really just a "gay" hood anymore. It really is "funkytown" as far as Houston is concerned. I see more hippies and hipsters (I hate that word, BTW) nowadays than anyone else.

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I don't know about Oak Lawn, but Montrose has been in motion for many, many years.

Heck, Howard Hughes used to live on Montrose!

It seems like Montrose has been for atleast 7-8 years. I just remember going to

Daiquiri Factory in high school/college and it will still really shady. That was probably in 94-95. But everytime I go home, the area has some new buildings with signs that say "For Sale, Starting at $250,000+". Just like Dallas.

I just hate when I see those old homes, that could be rehabed, torn down. It seems like such a waste. There is history in those homes and so many others.

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