Homophobic Landscapers?

[TJones]

Herein lays the problem. Homosexuals deserve the same rights, privileges and responsibilities as the rest of us. Why is not as disgusting for someone to be anti-homosexual as it is for them to be anti-racial minority? If it's just a matter of law, our laws need some updating.

Because the leaders of both major political parties are still closed minded like Dal and Jeebus, in that being "Gay" is a choice. They have obviously never talked to an actual Gay person. Until both parties can get that part of their head out of their asses, the status quo will remain.

[nmainguy]

For one thing, individuals don't owe one another constitutional rights...those flow from the government. Furthermore, even if there was a constitutional issue (equal protection), homosexuality isn't a protected class.

I'd have to say straight people are the protected class with special rights. Once my partner and I get those same rights we'll be on the same page.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Here's an update, The link to his Garden Guy Forum has been removed from his website.

The forum is still very active here's the LINK

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I think this guy should be free to refuse service based on his ridiculous opinions. I also think sane people should be free to get the word out about this clown so that others can feel free to not patronize his business.

I dont believe a person chooses to be gay anymore than i believe in kosher hogs or heavenly devils!!!!

[ssullivan]

It's sad to say this, but I'm not too surprised with this whole thing. There are a lot of so-called "Christians" out there who ignore some of the most fundamental teachings of the faith, while obsessing on minor, arcane laws that have nothing to do with the things that Christ taught. Let's not forget that that white Christians were some of the people who fought the end of slavery in this country, and then enacted laws that enforced segregation and discrimination against people with dark skin that remained on the books for almost 100 more years. Some fundamentalists have this obsession with empowering themselves by pushing others down. In this country it's been done to Native Americans, African Americans, Asians, and now that it's no longer fashionable to blatantly discriminate based on race, they are doing it based on sexual orientation and gender identity. The good news is that many of us who call ourselves Christian aren't this way. The problem is that the radical fundamentalists are the most vocal, and as a result they often give the rest of those who process the faith a bad image. The rest of us quietly go about our business, often quitely doing many acts that do make the world a better place. Some of the most faithful, most generous, most caring people I know are gay Christians, who are out there on a regular basis feeding the poor, taking care of the sick and dying, and providing a safe, welcoming place for those who are hurting for whatever reason to find comfort and love. And unlike many of the fundamentalist super churches, we don't feel the need to go on television and scream and shout about it all to make ourselves feel better.

In a way, I'm glad that The Garden Guy has all that stuff on his website. If I was looking for a landscaper and saw all that, I wouldn't contact him just because I wouldn't want to knowingly spend my money with someone like him. Yes, he has the right to run his business the way he wants, and sending that response to a potential client who may or may not be gay is technically within his rights. However, in the end he'll get what's coming to him. For every customer who is drawn to his business because they agree with his bigotry, he'll be losing 10 others who are disgusted by this incident.

As for sexual orientation being a choice, I can honestly say that I never once in my life chose to be gay. What I did chose was to be true to myself and not live a life that is a lie by denying who I am. Sure, I could have done the "Christian" thing and found a nice girl and lied to her and put on a show to act like I was interested in more than just a friendship, gotten married, and had kids, only to have a nervous breakdown 10 years later when I could no longer keep up the act. But how in any way would living that kind of a lie be "Christian?" Especially when it eventually results in a miserable divorce and shattered dreams that leave my wife and children with emotional wounds that take years, if not decades, to recover from? The Bible teaches us to be honest and true to ourselves and other people. That's the choice I made -- to be honest -- but as for being gay, that is not something I chose, no more than any of you chose your own sexual orientation.

There may not be a definitive study that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that sexual orientation is genetic, but there are a lot of published, scientific studies out there that do indicate that sexual orientation is not a conscious choice that someone makes, and that it is something that is set before birth, or very shortly thereafter. I've heard the theories some fundamentalists spout about how being gay is the result of a bad relationship with your father, or an overbearing mother, or bad parenting, or drug use, or being sexually abused as a child, or whatever. I can tell you that I have a great relationship with two very loving parents who I have always been very close to, I grew up in a very traditional home, went to a Christian church (a church that only taught love and acceptance, not hate and discrimination), never have done any type of illegal drug, never was abused in any way, never experienced the divorce of my parents or being raised by a single parent, and never was exposed to anybody who was openly gay when I was a child. Yet I can look back and remember as a young child being much more fascinated by a handsome man than a beautiful woman. All evidence in my life experience points to my sexual orientation being something that I was born with, and certainly there was no time in my life when I chose to like men. All of my gay friends have similar stories, and none of them believe it's something they chose.

The only choice involved in this matter is for someone like me, or someone who believes the things I do about treating other people with love, respect, and acceptance, is the choice not to do business with somebody like The Garden Guy.

[Mark F. Barnes]

I just got off of the phone with Patrick Bones of the APLD, and he told me they are investigating the origin of the email, and that a formal announcement will be made regarding there position in all of this. He said that Garden Guy Inc had been a member of the APLD since 2000. They did not renew this year for whatever reason. The APLD feels the email is suspicious also. Mr. Bones was very polite and says there is a big investigation open at this time in regards to this issue. He declined to elaborate or give me any personal views, I think he figured I was a reporter or something.

I now more than ever think this is a big hoax being carried out as some sort of grudge or vendetta. I may be wrong it's just a gut feeling I got from the tone in Patrick Bones voice and they way he put things. He did say he had spoken with the Farber's but would not elaborate whatsoever.

I myself forwarded the emails to www.Snopes.com and www.hoax-slayer.com, these people will dig in deep if they take an interest.

I give it 24 hrs. and we will know the truth, one way or another.

[Guest danax]

There may not be a definitive study that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that sexual orientation is genetic, but there are a lot of published, scientific studies out there that do indicate that sexual orientation is not a conscious choice that someone makes, and that it is something that is set before birth, or very shortly thereafter.

Not everything will be found in our genes. My theory is that gay souls have spent several recent lifetimes as the opposite sex and suddenly find themselves in a strange body and are unsure why they feel different, no matter how hard they try. Why are some people attracted to certain cultures or professions, or have certain talents? It takes a lot of bravery to finally conform to one's self as they are, not how society would like them to be, not something a normal human being would voluntarily choose to experience.

If this theory is true, then each one of us has been gay many, many times in the past.

[sevfiv]

yeah, i am waiting to hear back from the Farbers. i won't hold my breath, though

I give it 24 hrs. and we will know the truth, one way or another.

[west20th]

Well your ignorance is astounding. Of course it's not a choice. Everone with half a working brain cell knows that.

BTW, do you use the word "Homo" in your everyday vocabulary because you're just typical un-educated white trash that doesn't know better or are you just that homophobic-or both?

You're calling Jeebus "white trash"? Being kind of unfair to white trash aren't we?

[Jeebus]

BTW, do you use the word "Homo" in your everyday vocabulary because you're just typical un-educated white trash that doesn't know better or are you just that homophobic-or both?

Only when talking about or to homos. Get a grip you pc wimp. Now where did I put my banjo...

Well your ignorance is astounding. Of course it's not a choice. Everone with half a working brain cell knows that.

Are you saying that all the doctors & scientists in the world - even the gay ones, can't even find one hint of proof? Obviously this is true or you would have spent more time linking the results instead of name calling.

[nmainguy]

I now more than ever think this is a big hoax being carried out as some sort of grudge or vendetta.

Apparently the Farbers are trying to tone down and lay low until this thing blows over. In any event I find it interesting that their forum link is broken and that they have removed their link to the anti gay marraige site.

They've had plenty of time to respond via their own forum http://216.30.130.70/cgi-bin/yabb/gardengu....cgi?board=rose but have chosen not to.

BTW, APLD is looking at a cease and desist order through their lawyers.

[Mark F. Barnes]

There is more hate in these posts than in the original email.

[MidtownCoog]

this thread is beyond gay

what a waste of bandwidth

[west20th]

this thread is beyond gay

what a waste of bandwidth

This waste of bandwidth seems to be getting your attention and posts.

[nmainguy]

You're calling Jeebus "white trash"? Being kind of unfair to white trash aren't we?

NMG humbly apologizes to white trash the world over.

However I'll stick to the homophobic part.

Maybe Jeebus is just...I don't know...frustrated?

[Pumapayam]

Maybe Jeebus is just...I don't know...frustrated?

The way I think of it, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

And I disagree with his opinion and side with nmainguy.

[Jeebus]

I asked where you stood on the ban, I didn't ask if you smoked. Are you sure you can read english or do you have an interpreter ?

Oh, I get where you were coming from, no no no your interpreter misunderstood the sentence, it was simply a rhetorical question to you. It's all fun and games until something actually happens that effects you. That would have been better for you to wrap your brain around. Sorry I confused you.

I disagree with the ban of smoking in non-dining establishments, e.g. nightclubs & bars.

Show us in your medical journals where people are "born" heterosexual. Did you ever think that maybe we were all born Gay, and that being Heterosexual was the "choice". But, I understand you have been conditioned to "see" being Gay as a "choice". Good deduction process there hotshot.

You want to see "deduction"? Show me how a Black woman who has been impregnated by a Black man can have a Chinese baby? You can't hide or change the color of your skin. You can with your sexuality. I have by choosing to confirm my affinity for women, as I'm sure you have. It was a choice. For most its easy, for some its hard - but it is a choice. You may be born with tendacies towards homo or hetero - but ultimately its your choice to which road to take.

Show me South Vietnamese Documents where it's proven that they were "Innocent".

I don't have to. You were quoting the character of a U.S. Soldier who was actively attempting to kill non-combatants. He also brags on how to kill women & children. You got called out for it.

I caught you red-handed on the FMJ quote. Just admit that and move on.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Apparently the Farbers are trying to tone down and lay low until this thing blows over. In any event I find it interesting that their forum link is broken and that they have removed their link to the anti gay marraige site.

They've had plenty of time to respond via their own forum http://216.30.130.70/cgi-bin/yabb/gardengu....cgi?board=rose but have chosen not to.

BTW, APLD is looking at a cease and desist order through their lawyers.

On his about page little over half way down same place it was. BTW who did you talk to @ the APLD

[Jeebus]

BTW, APLD is looking at a cease and desist order through their lawyers.

Cease & desist what? Not cutting gay peoples' grass?

[Pumapayam]

You may be born with tendacies towards homo or hetero - but ultimately its your choice to which road to take.

Not true, I can't get "excited" looking at women like I do men. It is not a choice, it is part of you and you can't deny it.

That is why men who think it is a choice, marry anyways, only to "cheat" later on their wives with men secretly when the go on business trips or something.

Think Brokeback Mountain.

It happens.

[sevfiv]

Cease & desist what? Not cutting gay peoples' grass?

probably using the APLD name on the website, since they are not affiliated anymore - which might ultimately show how they stand on the issue

You may be born with tendacies towards homo or hetero - but ultimately its your choice to which road to take.

so, assuming you identify as heterosexual, how hard was it to choose against your homosexual tendencies? (since sexual orientation is a choice, and all)

[west20th]

You may be born with tendacies towards homo or hetero - but ultimately its your choice to which road to take.

Ahhh....so we are born with these tendencies but it is best to deny them, marry some poor unsuspecting woman and live a lie ruining both lives. I see. Thanks for clearing that up Dr. Jeebus.

[Mark F. Barnes]

probably using the APLD name on the website, since they are not affiliated anymore

No where on their site do they claim to be a member of the Association of Professional Landscape Designers.

Never did. Only on the email that is in question. They have been overwhelmed with complaints. The cease and desist order may be for the craziness that has broken out since this all began.

Just a point......Do you know the objective of terrorism is to disrupt the natural flow of life and the continuity of it's citizenship? Not to blow up planes and kill people though it may result in that. It's the fear and disgust they wish to instill in each of us. Terrorism comes at many different levels and phases......just a point.

[Pumapayam]

Do you know the objective of terrorism is to disrupt the natural flow of life and the continuity of it's citizenship? Not to blow up planes and kill people though it may result in that. It's the fear and disgust they wish to instill in each of us. Terrorism comes at many different levels and phases......just a point.

They started the snow ball effect, it just continues on it's own.

[Jeebus]

so, assuming you identify as heterosexual, how hard was it to choose against your homosexual tendencies? (since sexual orientation is a choice, and all)

I didn't have any. As I said, for some (including myself) its an easy, if not completely un-conscious choice. My body was built for procreation with a woman. I have never had the urge to do otherwise. Some do. There's nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned, but its still a choice. And to deny your urges, straight or gay as one poster suggested, is still a choice - is it not?

Its funny that all you posters calling me narrow minded are the same posters offering the most narrow minded scenarios. I never said choosing to be gay is the wrong choice. I simply said it was a choice. Maybe I should have said: "Living a gay lifestyle is a choice." Is that a little better?

For the record, I don't hate gays. Gay, straight, neither - I don't care. Its your choice. My only arguement in this thread is that I think private contract business has every right to choose who they want as their clients. I may not agree with their reasons, but I strongly feel its their choice. If the best landscaper in town won't cut my grass because I drive a Ford, then oh well. I'm not going to cry "foul" over it. I will tell all my Ford driving friends & neighbors, but I'm not going to get my panties in a wad over it.

Oh that and I just wanted to hassle TJ.

[TJones]

I disagree with the ban of smoking in non-dining establishments, e.g. nightclubs & bars.

You want to see "deduction"? Show me how a Black woman who has been impregnated by a Black man can have a Chinese baby? You can't hide or change the color of your skin. You can with your sexuality. I have by choosing to confirm my affinity for women, as I'm sure you have. It was a choice. For most its easy, for some its hard - but it is a choice. You may be born with tendacies towards homo or hetero - but ultimately its your choice to which road to take.

I caught you red-handed on the FMJ quote. Just admit that and move on.

Glad to hear it about the smoking stance, I agree , it should be the owner's perogative. I don't see bar owners saying I'll let you smoke in my bar only if your are heterosexual though.

Didn't know Chinese was a "race" now. You mentioned Hispanic, we have determined on this forum, that Hispanic is NOT a race either. Just because you can hide doesn't mean it isn't there. You want to try the route about gender bending also ? Lots of men and women hide THAT everyday also. Now you admit that we may be "BORN" with tendacies toward either. So, which is it, a choice or are we possibly born that way? Just like you say there is no proof that people are born gay, you can't prove medically that we aren't.

Congrats, you caught me quoting someone in a war movie, no.1, it's a movie, no.2, me quoting the movie as your proof that I condone such behavior, is the same as you saying it's "OK" to tell this guy that he won't mow their lawn because they are gay, and that you advocate not mowing anyone's lawn who is gay. What else you got ,Chief ?

btw, I got caught up in that whole Hispanic NOT being a "race" thing too. You asked me about being hetero, I can honestly say that it was more a "natural" feeling to be attracted to women. Which I am sure that it would be MORE "natural" for men and women who have feelings toward same sex to natrually gravitate towards it, if there wasn't such a stigma in this country over it. Young men and women only question their feelings for obvious reasons. Fear being the most dominant of them.

[Mark F. Barnes]

And ah one......ah two........

We are the world, we are the children

We are the ones who make a brighter day

So lets start giving

Theres a choice were making

Were saving our own lives

Its true well make a better day

Just you and me

We are the world, we are the children

We are the ones who make a brighter day

So lets start giving

Theres a choice were making

Were saving our own lives

Its true well make a better day

Just you and me

We are the world......

[Jeebus]

Glad to hear it about the smoking stance, I agree , it should be the owner's perogative. I don't see bar owners saying I'll let you smoke in my bar only if your are heterosexual though.

(I'm physically laughing out loud right now!) You crack me up TJ. I have to ask: WTF does the sentence I highlighted have ANYTHING to do with the subject at hand???

Didn't know Chinese was a "race" now. You mentioned Hispanic, we have determined on this forum, that Hispanic is NOT a race either.

You're correct, Chinese is a nationality. I used Chinese instead of Asian because I thought it would be more identifiable. I wanted you to instantly picture an ethnic Asian baby. Now, the only thing this forum has proven is that Mexican is not a race. Why you're bringing Hispanic up I have no idea.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Help!!! Marty!!!! I forgot the rest of the Lyrics!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pumapayam]

My only arguement in this thread is that I think private contract business has every right to choose who they want as their clients. I may not agree with their reasons, but I strongly feel its their choice.

Whether it is race, gender, or sexual preference, discrimination is discrimination.

If you were black and denied, it would be an issue.

If you were a woman and denied, it would be an issue.

If you were a lesbian and denied, it SHOULD be an issue, it is not up to the owner to base a decision on that.

God help you if you are a black lesbian!