Baylor St. Lukes McNair Campus & Health Sciences Park

[ricco67]

Depending on the size of the lots, wouldn't it be safe to assume that the lots could be for further expansion as it's needed in the first place?

I am curious as to what rating the foundation is going to be, I wonder if they're taking future vertical expansion into consideration as well.

Overall, i see this as a major plus, regardless of what it's "almost historic" neighborhood next door thinks.

[TheNiche]

Depending on the size of the lots, wouldn't it be safe to assume that the lots could be for further expansion as it's needed in the first place?

That's the idea.

[KinkaidAlum]

Visual blight.

Replacing a grassy area with surface parking wont be a positive for the Bayou that lines this property.

Replacing a grassy area with surface lots wont do anything but worsen flooding problems in Devonshire.

Replacing a grassy area with a surface lots will add to the runoff into the Braes Bayou nearby causing pollution problems downstream.

Most surface lots, especially in a hospital like setting, will require lighting which will add to the light pollution in the area.

If they are already building a garage, they could maximize greenspace by making it large enough to not need surface parking.

[TheNiche]

Visual blight.

Replacing a grassy area with surface parking wont be a positive for the Bayou that lines this property.

What bayou?

Replacing a grassy area with surface lots wont do anything but worsen flooding problems in Devonshire.

Surface permiability is far more important upstream in the watershed.

Replacing a grassy area with a surface lots will add to the runoff into the Braes Bayou nearby causing pollution problems downstream.

I can live with that. If its that big of a problem, it is probably more effective to spend the money that would've gone to structured parking on environmental remediation of a site on the Ship Channel. Probably have a greater impact.

Most surface lots, especially in a hospital like setting, will require lighting which will add to the light pollution in the area.

What's there is there; one surface lot can't possibly make it worse. If we were talking about a suburban site, I could see your point, though.

If they are already building a garage, they could maximize greenspace by making it large enough to not need surface parking.

Sure they could, but at what cost? Besides, for the time being, surface parking is more convenient for users than is structured parking.

[house567]

BCM should "partner with TMC to build garage parking tangent to BCM area. It could preserve greenspace between Devonshire neighborhood and BCM and offer a win-win situation for everyone. TMC's surface lot ALREADY destroyed the live oaks. BCM has a chance to save many of them. Tall parking structures located DIRECTLY across from old neighborhood homes DON'T MIX! There IS A BETTER WAY! As I have written before, BCM can still have EVERYTHING AND help preserve a quiet neighborhood, and INCREASE safer bicycle commuting from south of OST to TMC. COOPERATION among TMC institutions (as it happened before) can be a very positive influence for ALL Houstonians.

[Houston19514]

Replacing a grassy area with surface parking wont be a positive for the Bayou that lines this property.

Replacing a grassy area with surface lots wont do anything but worsen flooding problems in Devonshire.

Replacing a grassy area with a surface lots will add to the runoff into the Braes Bayou nearby causing pollution problems downstream.

That would be true, if your premise were correct. But of course they are not "replacing a grassy area with surface lots." Prior to the BCM purchase / development plan, this was not just a "grassy area". Rather, it was an area with a lot of rooftops, streets, and parking lots, yes, surface parking lots. From the BCM site plan it appears that there might be more "grassy area" and undeveloped surface after BCM is done than there was before.

[woolie]

My objection to the surface parking is purely aesthetic. The runoff argument is a bit silly, actually. Let's take a look at how much surface parking is already in the area.

This also shows how little of an "almost historic" neighborhood even exists -- and how little borders BCM. About 10 or 12 houses. In an area that's already been replaced with giant townhomes.

These are some older renderings showing the approximate massing and scale of phase 1 and 2, respectively. They were posted earlier as attachments, but not in-line with the thread.

Edited May 24, 2007 by woolie

[KinkaidAlum]

Ah, it's been a long time since I have been in that part of Houston. I was actually visualizing the Camdrige @ Holcombe area for this project. Additionally, the new rendering with the "river" out front also threw me off a bit as I thought it would then be adjacent to the bayou/ditch.

Also, I had NO IDEA there was that much surface parking in that area. Man, that is tragic.

[TheNiche]

Ah, it's been a long time since I have been in that part of Houston. I was actually visualizing the Camdrige @ Holcombe area for this project. Additionally, the new rendering with the "river" out front also threw me off a bit as I thought it would then be adjacent to the bayou/ditch.

Also, I had NO IDEA there was that much surface parking in that area. Man, that is tragic.

Wow...the area is soooo visually blighted that Kinkaid didn't even know about it!

TMC surface lots are aesthetically neutral. Unlike surface lots downtown, they're well-maintained and landscaped at the periphery. You only really get a feel for how much paved space there is from the air...but most people exist at street level, so that's typically not an issue.

[house567]

WOOLIE, ... Your second rendering was interesting. (The view as if it were taken from the top of the SPIRES TOWER looking south). BCM property "overlayed" about 20 families homes on Canterbury and Lauderdale.

On a positive note, our neighborhood (Devonshire) meeting with Dr. Traber, CEO BCM, went quite well I thought. BCM would support the idea of closing Wyndale to Braeswood just west of Staffordshire if Dr. Wainerdi and the CoH will help create a Brunson east-west thru way connecting the VA Hosp to Fannin and Firehouse #33. This would help prevent an estimated 800+ autos 2X's/day (BCM employees and patients) from using our somewhat quiet neighborhood street. I feel that they expressed progressive and community-based thinking. I doubt that many "developers" would think that way.

[sevfiv]

another sad update for devonshire -

the 1920 Woodbury house, c. 1929 (former estate of Penn Rettig - Rettig's Ice Cream) will be (has been?) demolished by the current owner.

I was told that it is making way for townhouses/residential something-or-other

also, the rumor is that the house was being taken apart board-by-board and sold to a developer in the Heights.

The owner, Dr. Richard B. Patt, may have done great things for cancer research, but has also helped destroy another (small) piece of 1920's Houston

Edited July 26, 2007 by sevfiv

[MidtownCoog]

Good grief, surface parking is tragic? And the solution to parking is?

Boston has gone to your head.

[Guest danax]

another sad update for devonshire -

the 1920 Woodbury house, c. 1929 (former estate of Penn Rettig - Rettig's Ice Cream) will be (has been?) demolished by the current owner.

I was told that it is making way for townhouses/residential something-or-other

also, the rumor is that the house was being taken apart board-by-board and sold to a developer in the Heights.

The owner, Dr. Richard B. Patt, may have done great things for cancer research, but has also helped destroy another (small) piece of 1920's Houston

Maybe to him, all old architecture looks like malignant growths.

It appears that most of the 1920s structures near the Museum District and Med Center are doomed to demolition eventually.

[WesternGulf]

Good grief, surface parking is tragic? And the solution to parking is?

Boston has gone to your head.

It's simply land use mixed with aesthetics. It is not so much that there needs to be a solution for parking, but not taking up large swaths of land for parking in a booming area like the Med Center has a simple solution which is structured parking.

Edited July 26, 2007 by WesternGulf

[sevfiv]

Maybe to him, all old architecture looks like malignant growths.

It appears that most of the 1920s structures near the Museum District and Med Center are doomed to demolition eventually.

yep - there are so many beautiful 20s and 30s era homes in Binz and Devonshire Place. Unfortunately, many of the Binz area homes haven't been kept up so well in the last few decades, allowing for the "easy" choice of demolition.

oh, apparently Patt made a killing on the property - when he sold, he probably looked something like this:

$$ > $$

Edited July 26, 2007 by sevfiv

[native5th]

yep - there are so many beautiful 20s and 30s era homes in Binz and Devonshire Place. Unfortunately, many of the Binz area homes haven't been kept up so well in the last few decades, allowing for the "easy" choice of demolition.

oh, apparently Patt made a killing on the property - when he sold, he probably looked something like this:

$$ > $$

Any idea what Patt got for that property? You'd think developers would be buying up land quickly in that neighborhood.

[TheNiche]

It's simply land use mixed with aesthetics. It is not so much that there needs to be a solution for parking, but not taking up large swaths of land for parking in a booming area like the Med Center has a simple solution which is structured parking.

Given the high price of Medical Center land, aesthetics are a lesser justification than are economics. Structured parking in the rear portions of the site allow frontage along Cambridge to be sold off for apartment, condominium, neighborhood-level retail development, or possibly used for compatible uses such as an extended-stay hotel or dorms.

On careful review of various matters, I have become convinced that surface parking even in high-dollar areas implemented to serve retail (i.e. Costco at HISD site) is frequently the best route. But for office and hospital uses in this area, there is only justification for a very limited amount of surface parking.

[KinkaidAlum]

Good grief, surface parking is tragic? And the solution to parking is?

Boston has gone to your head.

I'd rather Boston have gone to my head than whatever suburban enclave has gone to yours. It really is time for you to change your screen name.

GatedEnclaveCoog has a nice ring...

[MidtownCoog]

Those lots have been there for 20+ years. They didn't need structured parking back then. And when they need more land those lots will be converted and you'll see structured parking.

I think Segregated_Boston_Schools would be a real cool screen name.

[TheNiche]

I'd rather Boston have gone to my head than whatever suburban enclave has gone to yours. It really is time for you to change your screen name.

GatedEnclaveCoog has a nice ring...

Nah, gates are ubiquitous, and actually, Fall Creek probably has an edge on Midtown in the sense that their gates are at least along the perimeter of the entire community rather than a defining characteristic of their homes. In fact, I'll bet that that there are deed restrictions to ensure that no gated homes are built at all in Fall Creek. Seems like that and the socioeconomic homogenity make for a less antisocial arrangement between neighbors...if you're into that kind of thing, which I'm not--but that's why I'd make such a terrible suburbanite.

[MidtownCoog]

The surface lots in the TMC have some beautiful fences and take advantage of the bayou scape. And most have security.

I left my gate, in Houston's Midtown. {cue Sinatra} They were mandatory to keep all the ghetto-thugs out. And you never know what those male prostitues on Tuam might try.

The only gates in Fall Creek are around home's driveways and the two golf courses. So if 15 miles from downtown is the burbs, then I'll take it! But if I were 20 years old, or gay, like y'all I just might move back.

Edited July 27, 2007 by MidtownCoog

[KinkaidAlum]

Yeah, cause the last time I checked, the Inner Loop was only filled with gays and 20 year olds.

[house567]

Any idea what Patt got for that property? You'd think developers would be buying up land quickly in that neighborhood.

I do not know what my neighbor from hell got for the property. About three years ago, some of it was sold to the Waterhill development company who squished 12-14 townhomes with 700 sf bases onto it. Three to four of them are already for sale again and one of them has had to be "re-stuccoed" for the third time. For the leftover property which used to indulge a magnificent Tudor style home, (before adding landscaping from a defunct Galveston "putt-putt" golf course, complete with giant bears, missles, and various other rusted junk), it was purchased by Moody National. Maybe this link will work. http://www.globest.com/news/905_905/houston/160610-1.html

Unfortunately, said person sampled too often into the pharmacology horn-of-plenty and had his license suspended by the Texas Medical Association. My suspicions are that he was mortgaged 3 times over and had to sell to keep bread on the table and out of jail. Sad ending to another Houston architectual beauty. Moody would be a welcome site compared to him.

[sevfiv]

I do not know what my neighbor from hell got for the property. About three years ago, some of it was sold to the Waterhill development company who squished 12-14 townhomes with 700 sf bases onto it. Three to four of them are already for sale again and one of them has had to be "re-stuccoed" for the third time. For the leftover property which used to indulge a magnificent Tudor style home, (before adding landscaping from a defunct Galveston "putt-putt" golf course, complete with giant bears, missles, and various other rusted junk), it was purchased by Moody National. Maybe this link will work. http://www.globest.com/news/905_905/houston/160610-1.html

Unfortunately, said person sampled too often into the pharmacology horn-of-plenty and had his license suspended by the Texas Medical Association. My suspicions are that he was mortgaged 3 times over and had to sell to keep bread on the table and out of jail. Sad ending to another Houston architectual beauty. Moody would be a welcome site compared to him.

yup - the owner is an anesthesiologist and at some point had his licensed revoked. oopsies!

the house was built by Katharine and Harry Mott (more info on them here), and is also in the Houston Architectural Guide by Stephen Fox:

One of the largest houses constructed by Katharine and Harry Mott, this rambling manorial style house occupies an entire block front in the subdivision of Devonshire Place. The crumbling of deed restrictions led to an invasion of high density housing in the mid 1990s that has radically diminished parts of the historically significant neighborhood.

this is a site which shows some of the stuff that was auctioned off from the property, and an article about him winning the HP 2002 Best Backyard.

this picture is from the Houston Architectural Guide:

and one from the other day:

more pictures here

[gnu]

sad.

from the good brick award citation:

Through their caring and skilled restoration of 2421 Brentwood, Caudell and Powers have made the house so valuable that it will not be threatened with demolition in our lifetimes

[sevfiv]

the Brentwood house is still standing - i just posted that for information about the builders

i wonder how many Mott houses are still extant in Houston, though

sad.

from the good brick award citation:

Through their caring and skilled restoration of 2421 Brentwood, Caudell and Powers have made the house so valuable that it will not be threatened with demolition in our lifetimes

[sevfiv]

I do not know what my neighbor from hell got for the property. About three years ago, some of it was sold to the Waterhill development company who squished 12-14 townhomes with 700 sf bases onto it. Three to four of them are already for sale again and one of them has had to be "re-stuccoed" for the third time. For the leftover property which used to indulge a magnificent Tudor style home, (before adding landscaping from a defunct Galveston "putt-putt" golf course, complete with giant bears, missles, and various other rusted junk), it was purchased by Moody National. Maybe this link will work. http://www.globest.com/news/905_905/houston/160610-1.html

here is the current Cambridge Tower thread:

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...showtopic=11102

[AJB857]

the Brentwood house is still standing - i just posted that for information about the builders

i wonder how many Mott houses are still extant in Houston, though

I own an original Mott house and would love to know more about them. Mine was built in 1930. I believe the RDA did a tour of Mott houses back in 1998, before I purchased my house. Any info would be greatly appreciated

[sevfiv]

I own an original Mott house and would love to know more about them. Mine was built in 1930. I believe the RDA did a tour of Mott houses back in 1998, before I purchased my house. Any info would be greatly appreciated

according to the Houston Architectural Guide, the following were designed by Mott, and most were built in collaboration with Burns & James architects:

2421 Brentwood (1929) - First Mott house of ten in River Oaks - also won a Good Brick Award in 2003

3325 Inwood (1930) - her family's home

1419 Kirby Dr. (1930)

1659 South Blvd. (1928)

1660 South Blvd. (1929)

2555 N. MacGregor Way (1929)

2620 Riverside Dr. (~1929-1930)

1920 Woodbury (1929) - demolished, one of the largest Mott houses

2519 N. MacGregor Way (~1929-1930) - not sure this one is still around

2627 Riverside Dr. (~1929-1930) - not sure about this one either

2417 Riverside Dr. (~1929-1930) - possibly altered

2612 Riverside Dr. (~1929-1930) - now the part of the Ladet Motel?

maybe i should have started a new topic...!

i wonder how many Mott houses are still extant in Houston, though

[AJB857]

according to the Houston Architectural Guide, the following were designed by Mott, and most were built in collaboration with Burns & James architects:

2421 Brentwood (1929) - First Mott house of ten in River Oaks - also won a Good Brick Award in 2003

3325 Inwood (1930) - her family's home

1419 Kirby Dr. (1930)

1659 South Blvd. (1928)

1660 South Blvd. (1929)

2555 N. MacGregor Way (1929)

2620 Riverside Dr. (~1929-1930)

1920 Woodbury (1929) - demolished, one of the largest Mott houses

2519 N. MacGregor Way (~1929-1930) - not sure this one is still around

2627 Riverside Dr. (~1929-1930) - not sure about this one either

2417 Riverside Dr. (~1929-1930) - possibly altered

2612 Riverside Dr. (~1929-1930) - now the part of the Ladet Motel?

maybe i should have started a new topic...!

Thanks for the info. I'd love for you to start a new topic on the subject, in case anyone else has any info about them -