Houston's Vanishing Neighborhoods- 9/24/06

[Sheila]

Houston

[musicman]

Houston

[TheNiche]

I hate to ask this but should this be titled Houston's Changing Neighborhoods vs. Houston's Vanishing Neighborhoods?

Dammit. You beat me to the punch. I just posted a reply to Sheila's other thread and said EXACTLY the same thing.

[musicman]

Dammit. You beat me to the punch. I just posted a reply to Sheila's other thread and said EXACTLY the same thing.

no prob....it'll be interesting to see what sheila jackson says when she gets there. someone must have promised a TV camera would be there. you know she was the one who thought men walked on Mars. what brainpower at work!

[Guest danax]

I hate to ask this but should this be titled Houston's Changing Neighborhoods vs. Houston's Vanishing Neighborhoods?

Ms. Lee didn't name the forum and I am thinking her appearance has some degree of sincerity to it but her interest could also be a fear of having her more loyal constituents vanish as parts of her gerrymandered district slowly gentrifies. I don't know how long Dist. 18 has been drawn as it is now, but it looks like a giant Pacman.

But this isn't a topic about her.

I think it's obvious to any Houston observers that there's a wave of preservationist sentiment building in Houston recently for perhaps the first time. Better late than never.

[musicman]

Ms. Lee didn't name the forum and I am thinking her appearance has some degree of sincerity to it but her interest could also be a fear of having her more loyal constituents vanish as parts of her gerrymandered district slowly gentrifies. I don't know how long Dist. 18 has been drawn as it is now, but it looks like a giant Pacman.

But this isn't a topic about her.

I think it's obvious to any Houston observers that there's a wave of preservationist sentiment building in Houston recently for perhaps the first time. Better late than never.

true....i'm just trying to locate a vanishing neighborhood.

[Sheila]

As I repled on another page ( I paraphrase) - suppose I could have called it

Houston's Vanishing Neighborhoods for People Who Aren't Rich but Still Want to Live Fairly Close to Downtown.

When all the buildings are changed and the demograhics are changed, the neighborhood that WAS is no longer there, thus it is vanished-ed and another takes its place.

Ms. Lee didn't name the forum and I am thinking her appearance has some degree of sincerity to it but her interest could also be a fear of having her more loyal constituents vanish as parts of her gerrymandered district slowly gentrifies. I don't know how long Dist. 18 has been drawn as it is now, but it looks like a giant Pacman.

But this isn't a topic about her.

I think it's obvious to any Houston observers that there's a wave of preservationist sentiment building in Houston recently for perhaps the first time. Better late than never.

[musicman]

As I repled on another page ( I paraphrase) - suppose I could have called it

Houston's Vanishing Neighborhoods for People Who Aren't Rich but Still Want to Live Fairly Close to Downtown.

When all the buildings are changed and the demograhics are changed, the neighborhood that WAS is no longer there, thus it is vanished-ed and another takes its place.

so it went from white to what demographic?

[gnu]

so it went from white to what demographic?

Come on musicman...why are you trying to unnecessarily play the race card?

from Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: de

[TheNiche]

Come on musicman...why are you trying to unnecessarily play the race card?

from Merriam-Webster:

I believe her motives are honest and she and her group have the best interest of houston in mind.

Quit nitpicking everything she says.

I personally appreciate any person's attempt at nitpicking when it comes to the motives of somebody who is trying to get the government to deprive a group of individuals of their property rights for such a flighty notion as that 'change is bad'.

Nitpicking ensures that the justification for such action is philosophically sound and adequately complete. Furthermore, nitpicking eliminates loopholes that would either undermine the spirit of the proposed regulation or that might erode property rights further than was initially intended.

So nitpick away, musicman!

[gnu]

I personally appreciate any person's attempt at nitpicking when it comes to the motives of somebody who is trying to get the government to deprive a group of individuals of their property rights for such a flighty notion as that 'change is bad'.

Nitpicking ensures that the justification for such action is philosophically sound and adequately complete. Furthermore, nitpicking eliminates loopholes that would either undermine the spirit of the proposed regulation or that might erode property rights further than was initially intended.

So nitpick away, musicman!

yes, you both, please nitpick. unfounded racism is always appropriate

[TheNiche]

yes, you both, please nitpick. unfounded racism is always appropriate

Sheila was characteristically unclear with her words. When somebody talks about changing demographics, that can be taken many ways...and just about all of them are completely irrelevant. Sheila shouldn't have mentioned it as it has very little to do with her cause.

[musicman]

yes, you both, please nitpick. unfounded racism is always appropriate

she said.....

Houston's Vanishing Neighborhoods for People Who Aren't Rich but Still Want to Live Fairly Close to Downtown.

When all the buildings are changed and the demograhics are changed, the neighborhood that WAS is no longer there, thus it is vanished-ed and another takes its place.

Unfortunately she did not live in the Heights when it was first created. Both buildings and demographics have changed prior to her moving in. She could be considered an outsider to some long time residents. i still know a few who've live there 60 plus yrs. Would she want people to keep her out? I don't think so. She is very emotional about the project and maybe wrote a few sentences without thinking completely.

[Sheila]

she said.....

Houston's Vanishing Neighborhoods for People Who Aren't Rich but Still Want to Live Fairly Close to Downtown.

When all the buildings are changed and the demograhics are changed, the neighborhood that WAS is no longer there, thus it is vanished-ed and another takes its place.

Unfortunately she did not live in the Heights when it was first created. Both buildings and demographics have changed prior to her moving in. She could be considered an outsider to some long time residents. i still know a few who've live there 60 plus yrs. Would she want people to keep her out? I don't think so. She is very emotional about the project and maybe wrote a few sentences without thinking completely.

[sevfiv]

Sheila was characteristically unclear with her words. When somebody talks about changing demographics, that can be taken many ways...and just about all of them are completely irrelevant. Sheila shouldn't have mentioned it as it has very little to do with her cause.

she specifically mentioned money:

Houston's Vanishing Neighborhoods for People Who Aren't Rich but Still Want to Live Fairly Close to Downtown

not ethnicity, race, age, jerk-iness

there is a correlation since much of the time, property values disproportionately increase in a neighborhood because of tear-down-rebuild something much larger and expensive, therefore pushing out the original residents sometimes. or they sell out for whatever reason (think bellaire).

some think that this change is detrimental to the character of the neighborhood, too - and i agree, it makes those fundamental characteristics vanish.

yes, in very concrete terms, the neighborhood still exists - she obviously isn't challenging that

[Sheila]

People have made many assumptions. Allow me to explain some things...

First- this isn't about just the Heights- it is about all urban neighborhoods that lack good deed restrictions.

Deed Restrictions- To enact new ones takes going door to door and getting 75% signatures. We estimate each signature takes 60-90 minutes to aquire (distribute info, call again, discuss topic, etc. ) That makes it a very difficult for any volunteer group. Why should there have to be a supermajority? We can legally elect a Governor this year with 20.00001 percent of the vote but it takes 75% going door to door to get changes in deed restrictions? Has the deck intentionally been stacked against the homeowners?

Prevailing lot size- will keep out townhomes but will not keep out giant lot covering homes. Sunset Heights tried to get PVLS and the Planning Commission denied them. Check the Chronicle archives for a good report. Furthermore, The Houston Planning Commission is a group of unpaid people all appointed by the Mayor, usually in the develpment and construction business whose decisions CANNOT be appealed. How democratic is that?

Save the Bungalows believes that the people who created and reside in a neighborhood should have some say over its future. Is that so radical? The city has, over time, thrown impediments in the way of citizens who might like to have as much say as speculators. We just want fairness.

And what is really meant by "property rights?" When you own property in America, all it does its give you the right do some some things to the surface of the land. And the closer together we live, the more rules there are becasue what you do to your property effects my property. So instread of just using 'property rights' as the all pupose knee jerk cliche- please be specific- right to do what?

To pretend that the government does not engage in social engineering through economic incentives is naive. What do you think the entire tax code sets out to do?

[musicman]

People have made many assumptions. Allow me to explain some things...

First- this isn't about just the Heights- it is about all urban neighborhoods that lack good deed restrictions.

You weren't clear about that

Deed Restrictions- To enact new ones takes going door to door and getting 75% signatures. We estimate each signature takes 60-90 minutes to aquire (distribute info, call again, discuss topic, etc. ) That makes it a very difficult for any volunteer group. Why should there have to be a supermajority? We can legally elect a Governor this year with 20.00001 percent of the vote but it takes 75% going door to door to get changes in deed restrictions? Has the deck intentionally been stacked against the homeowners?

Why should there be a supermajority? BECAUSE THAT IS THE LAW!! If you read the Texas Property Code ch 201 and 204 there are multiple ways you can update restrictions. I haven't read it recently but there was a way where 60 percent was enough. I believe your civic club had to incorporate. The deck has been stacked against us. you need to work with your state rep to sponsor changes in the system. THE CITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.

Prevailing lot size- will keep out townhomes but will not keep out giant lot covering homes. Sunset Heights tried to get PVLS and the Planning Commission denied them. Check the Chronicle archives for a good report. Furthermore, The Houston Planning Commission is a group of unpaid people all appointed by the Mayor, usually in the develpment and construction business whose decisions CANNOT be appealed. How democratic is that?

Well our government is a republic not a democracy. Like i said above you need to work with state representatives to change how deed restrictions are enacted. I know must of the property code has been changed specifically for houston because we dont have zoning. the process is cumbersome to say the least. I know my old neighborhood was successful but you only have a yr to gather the necessary signatures.

Save the Bungalows believes that the people who created and reside in a neighborhood should have some say over its future. Is that so radical? The city has, over time, thrown impediments in the way of citizens who might like to have as much say as speculators. We just want fairness.

The rules are at the state level not the city level. You have the ability to have a say by updating your restrictions.

And what is really meant by "property rights?" When you own property in America, all it does its give you the right do some some things to the surface of the land. And the closer together we live, the more rules there are becasue what you do to your property effects my property. So instread of just using 'property rights' as the all pupose knee jerk cliche- please be specific- right to do what?

To pretend that the government does not engage in social engineering through economic incentives is naive. What do you think the entire tax code sets out to do?

You seem to be very emotional, almost bitter about this. You must lose this bitterness and be willing to work to gather the signatures as the law dictates.

[Sheila]

So what you are saying is...laws must never change?

[musicman]

So what you are saying is...laws must never change?

No i never said that. Like i said previously you must work with with your state representative(s) to make changes. Complaining to the planning commission does no good because they don't make the rules. There is a defined process that you must follow to make changes. saying "that's not fair", "why do i have to do that" etc only makes you look whiney, not trying to solve a problem.