Charles Rogers Murders

[J W]

Both are interesting books. The Man With the Candy ridicules Houston and its residents too much for my tastes.

Maybe so , but the Man with the Candy has a great chapter describing the old pre-1980s Heights . Many forget that before the Heights was gentrified and yuppied up in the 80s it was a low-income white redneck neighborhood .

[icepickphil]

The chapter you describe is one of the best parts of the The Man With The Candy. Required reading for any Houston history buff!

Interesting that the Corl house photo was removed from here. Are the Corl murders too hot a topic for HAIF?

Maybe so , but the Man with the Candy has a great chapter describing the old pre-1980s Heights . Many forget that before the Heights was gentrified and yuppied up in the 80s it was a low-income white redneck neighborhood .

[Retama]

The Man on the Grassy Knoll also has a good history of the neighborhood where the Rogers murder took place.

Not sure if all of you recall but once they posted a picture of Coryll's house on this forum and some complained and the topic was closed. I mean it was a bad event but it was Houston history. Go figya.

The Pasadena Citizen refused to do a 25th anniversary story on the Coryl killings because, "it would bring people down."

Go figya.

[Subdude]

The chapter you describe is one of the best parts of the The Man With The Candy. Required reading for any Houston history buff!

Interesting that the Corl house photo was removed from here. Are the Corl murders too hot a topic for HAIF?

No. I'm not sure what he's talking about. The thread is here, and the picture is there. It was never closed.

[FilioScotia]

Ever notice how these nut cases are usually male? Surely we must have a few Lizzie Borden types in our past? Lorena Bobbit just doesnt cut it. I mean she didnt exactly killl her husband just de-capitated "it". So that doesnt count. Houston must have a few fem fetales with Norman Bates tendencies.

I remember a Pasadena woman, who in February or March of 1955, killed her two small sons and dismembered their bodies. It happened in a trailer park that's still there, on Pasadena Blvd, one block south of Hwy 225.

Annie Laurie Williams wrapped the pieces in meat wrapping paper, and drove it all to a friend's house in Galveston County not far from Alvin. She told the friend someone had given her a bunch of venison that had gone bad and she needed to bury it someplace. The friend buried the packages in a field behind his garage and forgot about it.

Williams then went on the lam. I can't remember all the details, but when her Galveston County friend learned that she and her two little boys were missing, he remembered all that meat he'd buried for her, got suspicious, dug it up, discovered what was left of the boys, and called police.

To make a long story short, Williams was caught a month or so later, living in a rooming house just a few blocks from downtown Houston. She claimed she killed her boys because her husband -- their father -- was in prison, and she didn't want them to grow up with that kind of shame and stigma hanging over them.

She also made a big show out of "coming to Jesus" while in jail awaiting trial. I remember the papers ran a front page picture of a preacher baptizing her right there in the county jail. (And yes I did say "papers". Plural. Houston had three daily papers back then. The Chron, the Post and the Houston Press. Not the Houston Press we have now. The old Press was a Scripps-Howard daily paper.)

She was sentenced to life in prison, but was paroled in 1980. But wait ! There's more ! Read all about it right here.

http://texnews.com/texas97/parole062297.html

She got into trouble again when she left the state, which violated her parole. It took Texas 16 years to find her, but she was re-arrested and brought back to prison to finish serving life in prison. She's very old now and she'll die in prison.

[Heights2Bastrop]

If you like that book you might pick up The Man With the Candy by Jack Olsen (about Dean Corl/Wayne Henley).

I used to have the book,

[Vertigo58]

I just remember that when this shocking news of Dean Coryl was 1st broadcast, it freaked out everyone and the media were on it what seemed like 24/7.

If memory serves well, Marvin Z was one of the main guys giving details on ABC 13. We were about 12-14 years old at the time so it really had us worried about talking to strangers and never get close to a strangers car!

PS, the person that complained about us bringing up this specific story is no longer posting but did say HE complained as it brought back bad memories. That he personally knew one of the victims. Maybe he was just venting so we or I assumed he really did have it deleted after speaking to Editor. Oh well, next...

[icepickphil]

If you can track down the film Collectors. http://imdb.com/title/tt0476646/

It's a documentary about these two guys who are essentially serial killer groupies and go around the country collecting artifacts and artwork from the killers. They visit the Sharon Tate home in L.A. (before it was torn down). Naturally the film ends up with them acquiring some paintings that Henley did in prison. He's interviewed and appears in the film. The last scene occurs in Houston when they attempt to exhibit the Henley paintings at a gallery.

from IMDB:

"A feature length documentary about artwork by serial killers; those who make it, the people who promote it and the people that detest it.

I just remember that when this shocking news of Dean Coryl was 1st broadcast, it freaked out everyone and the media were on it what seemed like 24/7.

If memory serves well, Marvin Z was one of the main guys giving details on ABC 13. We were about 12-14 years old at the time so it really had us worried about talking to strangers and never get close to a strangers car!

PS, the person that complained about us bringing up this specific story is no longer posting but did say HE complained as it brought back bad memories. That he personally knew one of the victims. Maybe he was just venting so we or I assumed he really did have it deleted after speaking to Editor. Oh well, next...

[Vertigo58]

If you can track down the film Collectors. http://imdb.com/title/tt0476646/

It's a documentary about these two guys who are essentially serial killer groupies and go around the country collecting artifacts and artwork from the killers. They visit the Sharon Tate home in L.A. (before it was torn down). Naturally the film ends up with them acquiring some paintings that Henley did in prison. He's interviewed and appears in the film. The last scene occurs in Houston when they attempt to exhibit the Henley paintings at a gallery.

from IMDB:

"A feature length documentary about artwork by serial killers; those who make it, the people who promote it and the people that detest it.

Sounds a bit morbid but ever since the book and 1976 movie "Helter Skelter" emerged I was somewhat fascinated by the whole saga. When living in LA I just had to drive to former Tate residence at cul de sac home at 10050 Cielo Drive in Benedict Canyon. It was hard to see from the street. It shoud have been torn down ages ago. The book far exceeds the film as far as important detail is concerned. Another terrible stupid event that never should have happened. I recorded the 20 year update of Charlie's girls. A must see. Parole may never happen for them. An eye for an eye.

[icepickphil]

Just wanted to add to the Charles Rogers thread. I've finished the book The Man on the Grassy Knoll which theorizes Rogers was one of JFKs killers. If you have any interest in the murder case of Rogers' parents it's a must read! I bought it used on amazon.

[RWB]

I recently found and reread my old copy of The Man on the Grassy Knoll. The book is out of print but copies are still available on Amazon . The first half of the book provides a chilling and detailed account of the Rogers murders. Its only in the second half that the authors go off into the ozone trying to connect Charles Rogers to the Kennedy asassination. Even then it works as a suspense novel . There is lots of references to places , addresses and businesses from the old "lost " Houston of the 50's and 60's . Any regular visitor to this Historic Houston forum might want to check it out .

James Ellroy must have read it, because Chuck Rogers and the murder of his parents became part of his novels American Tabloid and The Cold Six Thousand. When I read these books, I was surprised when the story suddenly veered into Houston. Knowing how much history Ellroy weaves into his (admittedly preposterous but very entertaining) fiction, I assumed that the Houston murders must be based on something that really happened. Now I know!

[Tigerjag]

I just remember that when this shocking news of Dean Coryl was 1st broadcast, it freaked out everyone and the media were on it what seemed like 24/7.

If memory serves well, Marvin Z was one of the main guys giving details on ABC 13. We were about 12-14 years old at the time so it really had us worried about talking to strangers and never get close to a strangers car!

Big 2 News was the station to watch though, with news about the Corrl case. I can still see the red mustang that had the car phone and Elmer Wayne Henley leaning against it. I can hear him saying, "Mama... I killed Dean." I think she said Oh Wayne or Oh Baby. That clip played over and over for weeks. I also remember the footage of digging at High Island. That still creeps me out and I wasn't very old at the time.

Houston must have a few fem fetales with Norman Bates tendencies.

There was Karla Faye Tucker. She and her boyfriend killed her best friends husband and a woman who had the misfortune to have gone home with him that night. Her boyfriend used a hammer and Karla Faye used a pick axe. It was very grisly. The bodies were described as "mush" after they got through with them.

She was sentenced to death and then was born again in jail. The 700 Club prayed for her sentence to be commuted to life in prison because she was a changed woman. I remember a friend of mine in another state posting on a message board for everyone to write the Texas governor to pardon this good, good woman! I was outraged!!! I posted the details of her crime and I don't believe anyone on that board wrote the governor.

Anyway, you can read more about her here: Karla Faye Tucker

[Retama]

I can still see the red mustang that had the car phone and Elmer Wayne Henley leaning against it. I can hear him saying, "Mama... I killed Dean." I think she said Oh Wayne or Oh Baby. That clip played over and over for weeks. I also remember the footage of digging at High Island. That still creeps me out and I wasn't very old at the time.

I have much the same memory of that as you do, Tigerjag. I was pretty young at the time as well and it stunned me at the time that there were parents who didn't know where their teenage kids were for days and weeks at a time. But when I stopped to think about it, I realized that many of of us pretty much ran around the territory fairly untethered. Those were the days when parents turned their kids loose to play outside unsupervised. We used to ride our bikes all over the damn country. It was nothing for me and a group of buddies to ride our bikes over to the Lynchburg Ferry cross the channel and plow around the San Jacinto Battleground for the day. I wouldn't anymore let my kids do that today than I would slit my wrists!

[FilioScotia]

I was pretty young at the time as well and it stunned me at the time that there were parents who didn't know where their teenage kids were for days and weeks at a time.

Did you know -- that the Harris County Morgue still has the bodies of five of Dean Corll's 27 known victims?

They've never been identified. The hope is that someday someone who can identify them will come forward.

Police only found 27 victims, but they've believed ever since there were at least a dozen more out there that were never found.

[Vertigo58]

I have much the same memory of that as you do, Tigerjag. I was pretty young at the time as well and it stunned me at the time that there were parents who didn't know where their teenage kids were for days and weeks at a time. But when I stopped to think about it, I realized that many of of us pretty much ran around the territory fairly untethered. Those were the days when parents turned their kids loose to play outside unsupervised. We used to ride our bikes all over the damn country. It was nothing for me and a group of buddies to ride our bikes over to the Lynchburg Ferry cross the channel and plow around the San Jacinto Battleground for the day. I wouldn't anymore let my kids do that today than I would slit my wrists!

Jumping on trains and riding it all the way to the train trestle and jumping off. We always copied the older kids. One day we had parents searching for my big bro and his pals and I had to lead the way to the hang-out. Felt like a snitch but everyone was worried sick as night came closer. It was around the time of this incident too, so most families were still leary of letting their kids be out in the street. We found them all ok. To this day, you can still see children wondering loose on sidewalks or streets, Unreal!

Yes, they kept showing the digging at High Island and the shed from what I recall. All you could see were plastic body bags and shovels. Pardon the pun but it was overkill.

[redraider]

Did you know -- that the Harris County Morgue still has the bodies of five of Dean Corll's 27 known victims?

They've never been identified. The hope is that someday someone who can identify them will come forward.

Police only found 27 victims, but they've believed ever since there were at least a dozen more out there that were never found.

My grandmother lived on Waugh Dr. and I remember one day a guy pulled up in a car and tried to get me to get in. I was about 13 at the time and my grandmother came out side and the guy took off. A month or so later he was on the news and bodies were being dug-up from a boat shed not far from where I grew up. Weird.

[icepickphil]

You're saying this was Corl who asked you to ride with him?

My grandmother lived on Waugh Dr. and I remember one day a guy pulled up in a car and tried to get me to get in. I was about 13 at the time and my grandmother came out side and the guy took off. A month or so later he was on the news and bodies were being dug-up from a boat shed not far from where I grew up. Weird.

[redraider]

You're saying this was Corl who asked you to ride with him?

My grandmother believed so. As for me, I really can't say but it was during the same time period and the same hunting grounds that the Candy Man roamed.

[Angela Willis]

I'm almost certain that Stickney didn't have an accomplice, and I think you may be thinking about another sensational murder case that happened in the early sixties. That was the case of a local real estate guy who hired a homosexual male prostitute -- Leslie Douglas Ashley -- and a female prostitute who worked with him -- Carolyn Lima -- to come to his office for "a party". At some point in the activities, Tones got rough and violent and Ashley shot him -- in self defense, as he later testified. Ashley and Lima dumped his body in a nearby vacant lot and burned it.

Taking his car, the two drove to New York, where they were picked up on a minor charge. NYC police learned they were wanted on murder charges in Texas and sent them back. Ashley pleaded insanity, but he was convicted and sent to death row. Lima struck a deal and got a light sentence in return for testifying against Ashley.

In the course of Ashley's appeal, it became clear that the prosecution had withheld evidence regarding his mental condition, and after a new sanity hearing, he was sent to the state hospital for the criminally insane in Rusk. He was eventually pardoned sometime in the early 70s.

I actually met Leslie Ashley on primary election day of 1972 outside an elementary school on the south side, where he and his mother -- Sylvia Ayres -- were handing out campaign cards for several candidates. I was also there "pushing cards" for a candidate, and I was surprised and amazed to find myself talking with the infamous "torch killer". (that's how the local newspapers referred to him during and after his trial) I remember him as a strange but somehow interesting "guy".

Ashley still lives in Houston, but not with that name. He had sex change surgery sometime in the 80s or 90s, and SHE'S now known as Leslie Perez. He took the last name of the lover he had in prison.

Leslie Perez is active in local politics and gay rights issues, and even runs for office now and then. She came very close to being elected Democratic Party County Chairman a few years ago.

[Angela Willis]

I'm almost certain that Stickney didn't have an accomplice, and I think you may be thinking about another sensational murder case that happened in the early sixties. That was the case of a local real estate guy who hired a homosexual male prostitute -- Leslie Douglas Ashley -- and a female prostitute who worked with him -- Carolyn Lima -- to come to his office for "a party". At some point in the activities, Tones got rough and violent and Ashley shot him -- in self defense, as he later testified. Ashley and Lima dumped his body in a nearby vacant lot and burned it.

Taking his car, the two drove to New York, where they were picked up on a minor charge. NYC police learned they were wanted on murder charges in Texas and sent them back. Ashley pleaded insanity, but he was convicted and sent to death row. Lima struck a deal and got a light sentence in return for testifying against Ashley.

In the course of Ashley's appeal, it became clear that the prosecution had withheld evidence regarding his mental condition, and after a new sanity hearing, he was sent to the state hospital for the criminally insane in Rusk. He was eventually pardoned sometime in the early 70s.

I actually met Leslie Ashley on primary election day of 1972 outside an elementary school on the south side, where he and his mother -- Sylvia Ayres -- were handing out campaign cards for several candidates. I was also there "pushing cards" for a candidate, and I was surprised and amazed to find myself talking with the infamous "torch killer". (that's how the local newspapers referred to him during and after his trial) I remember him as a strange but somehow interesting "guy".

Ashley still lives in Houston, but not with that name. He had sex change surgery sometime in the 80s or 90s, and SHE'S now known as Leslie Perez. He took the last name of the lover he had in prison.

Leslie Perez is active in local politics and gay rights issues, and even runs for office now and then. She came very close to being elected Democratic Party County Chairman a few years ago.

[Angela Willis]

Any info on Leslie Douglas Ashley that you can give me I would appreciate. I am hoping to find the child he had with his wife. That was before the sex change. I am trying to find this child because he has an Aunt and that Aunt would be my Mother. I know Douglas did some horrible things but I'm hoping his child turned out better than he did. I don't live in Houston so any help would be greatly appreciated

[Michelle C]

Another murder from the fifties that comes to mind is the murder of William Boatner. He lived in the Hyde Park area with his parents. He came up missing and several days later his body was found stuffed in an abandoned refrigerator on West Gray. This was in the mid to late fifties. I am not totally sure but I do think I have the name correct. I don't remember who murdered the boy but I do remember the police connecting someone to his murder. Hopefully someone on this board will remember the incident and can add some more information. I do remember when I was going to Lanier Jr. High there was a boy in my homeroom that had been good friends with Bill Boatner.

[Michelle C]

The name finally came to me, it was William Bodenheimer. I Googled it and found out he disappeared July 20th 1959. here is a link to the story.

http://www.houstonpress.com/2004-03-11/news/the-icebox-revisited/full/

[little frau]

Any info on Leslie Douglas Ashley that you can give me I would appreciate. I am hoping to find the child he had with his wife. That was before the sex change. I am trying to find this child because he has an Aunt and that Aunt would be my Mother. I know Douglas did some horrible things but I'm hoping his child turned out better than he did. I don't live in Houston so any help would be greatly appreciated

 

I cannot give you any of the information you seek.  I do believe though, that there are agencies, individuals or others that may be employed to research for you.  Perhaps some genealogy sites might provide folks that do this.

 

I can only imagine why you want this information, and I hope you do get it.  I truly hope someone here can come up with more information in the direction of help.  That's one reason for my post, to bump this.

[FilioScotia]

Since his sex change, Ashley's name has been Leslie Elaine Perez.

 

"She" has led a very public life since then, including several races for seats on Houston City Council, and working with the Harris County Democratic Party. In 1990 she ran for the position of Party Chairman, but got less than 20 percent of the vote.

 

Maybe someone in the Party can point you in the right direction. Former Chair Gerry Birnberg or current Chair Lane Lewis might know.

[sma69]

As part of our research in writing "The Ice Box Murders" I reviewed the 8" x 10" Kodachrome color prints of the Rogers' murders at 1815 Driscoll Street on Father's Day, June 20, 1965. There were originally about 50 photos and the negatives were used so many times to make prints that they wore out. For many years photos were passed out at the HPD Police Academy in training. Every time they were passed out prints would be lost. Officers would take them home. In one instance, in our book an officer took his date to the homicide division to impress her with the pics. In another case they used them to scare the hell out of teenagers who had been partying in the house on Driscoll. The City had to tear the house down because it was a magnet for teenagers. Hollywood Cemetery has also had issues in the past. We were fortunate to be given many of Charles Rogers books and some notes that were retrieved from the house after the murders by a relative. We also were able to go with a treasure hunter to the site of the old house before the townhouse was built on the site. We salvaged old radio parts from the location, and bathroom floor tile. The same floor that Fred and Edwina were dismembered on. When the City demolished the house many of the items in the house were simply buried in the dirt. Hard to believe, but true. Yes, this case is unbelievable and the photos (if you are normal) will take your breath away. Since I knew that I would have to study them I spent a lot of time upfront reviewing the Journal of Forensic Pathology and forensic pathology textbooks. Homicide detectives are very special people and without a couple of special ones our book could have never been written. For more on The Ice Box Murders see http://iceboxmurders.com or visit the Amazon Kindle Store for a copy. And yes this is a one of a kind case. 

[sma69]

One of the things that we determined when we wrote The Ice Box Murders was that Charles F. Rogers had a timeline. He didn't have an automobile. He did have a motorcycle. He had been riding motorcycles since the end of World War II, and would ride his motorcycle to class at the University of Houston. The Rogers' had a handyman who would come to the house at 1815 Driscoll Street from time to time. Edwina Rogers 1954 Cadillac had been up on blocks for about two weeks before the murders. The handyman was working on the car and would see Charles' motorcycle in the garage. It was not there after the murders, but it's not how Charles got out of Houston. Another common bit of misinformation is that Fred and Edwina Rogers owned the house at 1815 Driscoll Street. In fact, it was owned by Charles Rogers. Charles did not intend to leave the house when he did. He was waiting for a friend/associate from Kerrville to fly to Houston and pick him up. He got flushed out of the house early, but was still in the house for days after the murders. For more on The Ice Box Murders see http://iceboxmurders.com or visit the Amazon Kindle Store for a copy of the book. 

[Michelle C]

I had a friend that lived on the next block down toward Westheimer from the Rogers'. He was a friend of Fred Rogers.

[sma69]

Very interesting! In 2003 we were at the Mid-South Regional Book Show in Austin. We had a booth set-up promoting our book, which hadn't been released yet. At the end of the show on Sunday a very quiet woman from Katy sat down at our table after breakfast and told us that her father's bookie had been trained by Fred Rogers. What she told us blew us away! Fred was also active in real estate in Acres Homes, Independence Heights, and a number of other historically African-American neighborhoods. On many of the properties there was a "cloud" on the title and Fred would do various 'slight-of-hand' routines to take care of the issues. As forensic accountants we are trained to follow the money, but in our discussions with retired detectives on the case, the Rogers' handyman, and others who knew the family, they pretty much just used cash. Fred never had a social security number.

 

With respect to our book, pre-release sales were great and Saturn Films was interested in making a movie based on our book, but The Ice Box Murders was never officially released because of rights issues. Now that we have 100% of our rights we're trying to put the word out there so readers know it's available in the Amazon Kindle Store. First month sales have been very strong and after the very long road we've been on with this book it's appreciated.

[Michelle C]

I don't think David was a close friend by any means. He told me that would see Fred as he walked past his house on Driscoll. He said one day that he spoke to him and they got introduced. He said from time to time that they would exchange a few words in passing. I have a question for you. Did Fred have a car? David seemed to think that was going to and from the bus stop on Westheimer when he would see him.