Charles Rogers Murders

[Heights2Bastrop]

Does anyone remember Charles Rogers who, in 1965, murdered and then butchered his grandparents (or parents) and stuck the body parts in the freezer? The couple went missing, and a search of the house turned up no clues. When police looked in the freezer, they thought someone had butchered a hog

[FilioScotia]

Does anyone remember Charles Rogers who, in 1965, murdered and then butchered his grandparents (or parents) and stuck the body parts in the freezer? The couple went missing, and a search of the house turned up no clues. When police looked in the freezer, they thought someone had butchered a hog

Edited August 26, 2006 by FilioScotia

[57Tbird]

To this day, the murders of Fred and Edwina Rogers remains Houston's bloodiest and most sensational unsolved mystery. Countless stories have been written about it, and it's even spilled over into the netherworld of Kennedy Assassination Conspiracy Lunacy. Some of those moonbats believe the suspected killer, Charles Rogers, was one of Kennedy's assassins.

The Rogers family lived at 1815 Driscoll St., which is in the Hyde Park section of the Montrose area, east of South Shepherd, behind the River Oaks Shopping Center. Check page 492-R of your handy Key Map. I wonder if the house is still there, and if it is, if the current resident knows what happened there 41 years ago.

I remember that one, and the location, very well. A girl I dated in high school, about ten years prior, lived on Driscoll, just a few blocks south of the murder scene.

While we're on the subject of sensational murders.... There was one that involved a young couple and a murder on Galveston beach back in the 50's. I have been trying to remember their names but draw a blank. Maybe one of you research experts can shed some light on this one.

[FilioScotia]

I remember that one, and the location, very well. A girl I dated in high school, about ten years prior, lived on Driscoll, just a few blocks south of the murder scene.

While we're on the subject of sensational murders.... There was one that involved a young couple and a murder on Galveston beach back in the 50's. I have been trying to remember their names but draw a blank. Maybe one of you research experts can shed some light on this one.

I remember that case too. Sometime in the late 50s, a young guy named Howard Stickney killed a man and his wife on the beach at Galveston after a night of drinking and some "kinky" activities. I can't remember the couple's names, or how police were able to tie Stickney to the killings, but he had skipped the country to Canada where he was arrested on an international warrant.

I remember a uniformed Canadian "Mountie" brought him back to Texas for the trial, and was a prosecution witness. I can't remember why the trial was held in Harris County, instead of Galveston County, where the killings took place, but Stickney was found guilty and executed several years later in 1962. Appeals didn't drag on for years back then the way they do now.

An interesting sidebar to the Stickney story: one of the members of the grand jury that indicted Stickney was Candace Mossler, who, just several years later, carved out her own place in Houston infamy when her wealthy husband Jacques Mossler was murdered in Florida, and her 20 year old nephew, with whom she was having an incestuous affair, was charged with the murder. The nephew, Mel Powers, was acquitted with help from the best defense lawyer who ever lived, Percy Foreman.

Love him or hate him, Foreman was the man you wanted in your corner if you were charged with murder. Somebody once asked Foreman if he ever felt bad about winning and putting people who were clearly guilty back on the streets. "Hell no", he said. "If they're guilty my fee will be their punishment." Incidentally, the two best defense lawyers working in Houston today learned everything they know from Foreman. Dick Deguerin and Mike Degeurin went to work in Foreman's firm almost right out of law school, and they were partners till Foreman died. And no I don't know why two brothers spell their last name differently.

The Mel Powers trial was held in Miami Florida, and you can read the whole sordid story of the Mossler murder on this website: http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murd...sler/index.html

Edited August 26, 2006 by FilioScotia

[WestUNative]

Frothing at the mouth anger is what I remember most about the Mossler killing. Candace and Mel were so brazen and blatant about it all, we saw no way they could get by with it. Enter stage far left, Percy Foreman. We were glued to every bit of news as it came in throughout the trial and were frustrated because with Percy on board, everyone knew they'd beat the rap. Yet, we hoped. Do any of you recall seeing Candace on television after the verdict? A reporter shoved the mike in her face and said, "You really are guilty, aren't you?" And Candace, smiled and said, "Of course." Well, words to that effect, if I've not gotten it precise. I stood in the den screaming, how can anyone openly admit in such an off-handed way the old, "I did it and I'm glad" routine and not be punished? Well, she didn't live long nor have a happy life, that's good.

About 13 years later, we were dining at the upscale and lovely restaurant in the restored Magnolia Building, The Bismark, and in trounced Percy and 2 Bimbos, giggling and squealing to the table next to ours. He was loud, obnoxious, crude and bombastic. We could hardly finish our dinner and get out.

It is true, had I been a heinous murdering fiend, he would have been my hero, but the only person I wanted to throttle was him.

[57Tbird]

I remember that case too. Sometime in the late 50s, a young guy named Howard Stickney killed a man and his wife on the beach at Galveston after a night of drinking and some "kinky" activities. I can't remember the couple's names, or how police were able to tie Stickney to the killings, but he had skipped the country to Canada where he was arrested on an international warrant....

....Love him or hate him, Foreman was the man you wanted in your corner if you were charged with murder....

Filio, I think you got it! I sure remember that name. I still think there was a young girl accomplice that was involved. I think she got off with just some jail time at Gatesville.

Percy was a real piece of work. I guess "Racehorse" Haynes became his successor... as to whom you wanted for your attorney, if you could afford him.

[torvald]

The Rogers family lived at 1815 Driscoll St., which is in the Hyde Park section of the Montrose area, east of South Shepherd and south of West Gray behind the River Oaks Shopping Center. Check page 492-R of your handy Key Map. I wonder if the house is still there, and if it is, if the current resident knows what happened there 41 years ago.

it may be an odd thing to add but i dated someone for a bit on

driscoll, when i saw the address --- i freaked the f@#$ out...

yet they lived next door. the person's mother was a very odd

person. she was very into metaphysical things (to put it politely).

she spent much of the time at home (she was retired) "keeping

the ghosts out of the house". she would sprinkle holy water on

a broom and swept the house with it yelling at the offending spirit

until it was persuaded out the door. she was very superstitious

and thought i was a haunted and terrible person... because there

were ghosts always standing behind me. the last straw was when

she starting flinging holy water on me randomly at times.

reading this makes me wonder if she lived next door in 1965 and

if she did not, i wonder if knowing about that crime made her more

paranoid over the years than she would have been.

crazy but... sort of thread related.

[dbigtex56]

the last straw was when

she starting flinging holy water on me randomly at times.

"It burns! It burns!"

[FilioScotia]

57Tbird said:

Filio, I think you got it! I sure remember that name. I still think there was a young girl accomplice that was involved. I think she got off with just some jail time at Gatesville.

Percy was a real piece of work. I guess "Racehorse" Haynes became his successor... as to whom you wanted for your attorney, if you could afford him.

I'm almost certain that Stickney didn't have an accomplice, and I think you may be thinking about another sensational murder case that happened in the early sixties. That was the case of a local real estate guy named Fred Tones who hired a homosexual male prostitute -- Leslie Douglas Ashley -- and a female prostitute who worked with him -- Carolyn Lima -- to come to his office for "a party". At some point in the activities, Tones got rough and violent and Ashley shot him -- in self defense, as he later testified. Ashley and Lima dumped his body in a nearby vacant lot and burned it.

Taking his car, the two drove to New York, where they were picked up on a minor charge. NYC police learned they were wanted on murder charges in Texas and sent them back. Ashley pleaded insanity, but he was convicted and sent to death row. Lima struck a deal and got a light sentence in return for testifying against Ashley.

In the course of Ashley's appeal, it became clear that the prosecution had withheld evidence regarding his mental condition, and after a new sanity hearing, he was sent to the state hospital for the criminally insane in Rusk. He was eventually pardoned sometime in the early 70s.

I actually met Leslie Ashley on primary election day of 1972 outside an elementary school on the south side, where he and his mother -- Sylvia Ayres -- were handing out campaign cards for several candidates. I was also there "pushing cards" for a candidate, and I was surprised and amazed to find myself talking with the infamous "torch killer". (that's how the local newspapers referred to him during and after his trial) I remember him as a strange but somehow interesting "guy".

Ashley still lives in Houston, but not with that name. He had sex change surgery sometime in the 80s or 90s, and SHE'S now known as Leslie Perez. He took the last name of the lover he had in prison.

Leslie Perez is active in local politics and gay rights issues, and even runs for office now and then. She came very close to being elected Democratic Party County Chairman a few years ago.

Edited December 16, 2019 by FilioScotia
adding facts

[Heights2Bastrop]

Wow, y

[FilioScotia]

My source in the Rogers case was a girl who sat in front of me in English class. She was in DE (Distributive Education) and went to class half a day, and had a job in the afternoon. She worked in the dispatch office of HPD and knew a lot about the case. She even claimed to have seen the crime photos.

**************************************

I HAVE seen the Rogers crime scene photos. I was a reporter assigned to the police beat in the late sixties and early seventies, and I hung around the police station a lot, especially in the homicide division. Sometimes, on slow days, I would go browsing through the file cabinet where they kept all the crime scene photos from years past, and I will never EVER forget the photos taken in the Rogers kitchen and at the morgue.

This may be a case of "Too Much Information", but when corpses are completely dismembered, medical examiners have to put the pieces together again like a jigsaw puzzle so they can fully examine them and analyze what happened. To this day those are the most grisly and horrifying photographs I have ever seen, and I am absolutely able to live the rest of my life without EVER seeing anything like them again.

Personally I don't know how homicide detectives and medical examiners are able to do that kind of work without it just burning a hole in their souls.

Edited August 27, 2006 by FilioScotia

[57Tbird]

I'm almost certain that Stickney didn't have an accomplice, and I think you may be thinking about another sensational murder case that happened in the early sixties. That was the case of a local real estate guy who hired a homosexual male prostitute -- Leslie Douglas Ashley -- and a female prostitute who worked with him -- Carolyn Lima -- to come to his office for "a party". At some point in the activities, Tones got rough and violent and Ashley shot him -- in self defense, as he later testified. Ashley and Lima dumped his body in a nearby vacant lot and burned it.

I remember those names too. You may be right, but I sure thought there was a girl involved with the beach murder. I don't think I can compete with your memory though. What details you remember!! Thanks for the enlightenment!

[Heights2Bastrop]

I don't think I can compete with your memory though.

TBird, I'm sure Filio is much younger than you, so his memory should be much, much better.

[57Tbird]

TBird, I'm sure Filio is much younger than you, so his memory should be much, much better.

Ouch!

[Heights2Bastrop]

Of course you know I'm just kidding, TBird. I think you're as sharp as a tack.

[FilioScotia]

TBird could be right. It's possible there was an accomplice. I just don't remember it. My memory isn't as sharp as it once was, but I've found a source that has everything there is to know about the Stickney case, including the manuscript of an unpublished book about it. It's in the Houston Metropolitan Research Center at the Houston Public Library, in the archives of Stickney's lawyer, Kenyon Houchins.

Here's a link to the archives, but it's only a detailed list -- not the actual archive. http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/houpub/0006...62.html#series2

It says there are no restrictions on access to the files or their use, so I, or one of us, should go downtown one of these days and ask to see the Kenyon Houchins files, and check out that manuscript for the complete story of Howard Stickney.

Edited August 28, 2006 by FilioScotia

[dbigtex56]

Houston's grizzly past?

I can't bear hearing about it!

[HoustonConfederate]

To this day, the murders of Fred and Edwina Rogers remains Houston's bloodiest and most sensational unsolved mystery. Countless stories have been written about it, and it's even spilled over into the netherworld of Kennedy Assassination Conspiracy Lunacy. Some of those moonbats believe the suspected killer, Charles Rogers, was one of Kennedy's assassins.

Check this out. http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/spe...eory/knoll.html

Here's another site with everything you ever wanted to know about this story.

http://iceboxmurders.com/

The Rogers family lived at 1815 Driscoll St., which is in the Hyde Park section of the Montrose area, east of South Shepherd and south of West Gray behind the River Oaks Shopping Center. Check page 492-R of your handy Key Map. I wonder if the house is still there, and if it is, if the current resident knows what happened there 41 years ago.

I went by 1815 Driscoll Street today and there is now a townhome there. The house next door looks like it's been there a while.

[Vertigo58]

Does anyone remember Charles Rogers who, in 1965, murdered and then butchered his grandparents (or parents) and stuck the body parts in the freezer? The couple went missing, and a search of the house turned up no clues. When police looked in the freezer, they thought someone had butchered a hog

[jwphillips2]

About 13 years later, we were dining at the upscale and lovely restaurant in the restored Magnolia Building, The Bismark, and in trounced Percy and 2 Bimbos, giggling and squealing to the table next to ours. He was loud, obnoxious, crude and bombastic. We could hardly finish our dinner and get out.

It is true, had I been a heinous murdering fiend, he would have been my hero, but the only person I wanted to throttle was him.

You forgot to add the adjective "rich" to Percy's description. Once, when asked about his fees, a reporter asked how much he would charge him for a murder case and he replied "Everything you own". I guess you wouldn't need it if convicted....

BTW, no one mentions Candy's kids Gary or Lynsey who were both there that night. And no one mentions Percy's brother who was a famous business attorney in his own right.

Mel Powers built the twin towers near NASA, one was for Ford Aerospace.

Edited February 5, 2008 by jwphillips2

[FilioScotia]

You forgot to add the adjective "rich" to Percy's description. Once, when asked about his fees, a reporter asked how much he would charge him for a murder case and he replied "Everything you own". I guess you wouldn't need it if convicted....

When Percy Foreman died in 1988, the people in charge of probating his estate were stunned to learn the extent to which Foreman used "barter" throughout his long legal career. It was local legend that if you didn't have the "cash" to pay Foreman, he would accept whatever you had. Stocks, bonds, jewelry, property, you name it. If it had value, Foreman would take it as payment of his fee.

He was once asked if he ever felt bad about putting guilty people back on the street, and his response was "Hell no! If they're guilty my fee will be their punishment."

He wasn't kidding. If you hired Foreman to defend you, one thing was certain. Whether he got you off or not, he would end up with all your money and worldly possessions.

His estate attorney found safe deposit boxes in banks all over town stuffed full of stocks, bonds, jewels, property deeds, valuable coin collections, you name it, all worth millions. He rented warehouses for the automobiles, furs, and other "stuff" countless cash-poor miscreants signed over to him. He once even accepted four circus elephants as payment for services rendered.

At one time he was the largest individual landowner in Harris County, holding title to more than forty homes, dozens of commercial buildings and, according to legend, at least several square blocks of downtown Houston. Among his many properties were all the land and buildings in the triangle formed by South Main, OST and Kirby, in which the old Stuart's Drive-In was the most prominent lessee.

Edited February 5, 2008 by FilioScotia

[jwphillips2]

At one time he was the largest individual landowner in Harris County, holding title to more than forty homes, dozens of commercial buildings and, according to legend, at least several square blocks of downtown Houston. Among his many properties were all the land and buildings in the triangle formed by South Main, OST and Kirby, in which the old Stuart's Drive-In was the most prominent lessee.

Amazing!!! I could find no book about him. Has anyone heard of a book?

[FilioScotia]

Amazing!!! I could find no book about him. Has anyone heard of a book?

At your service. It's King of the Courtroom: Percy Foreman for the Defense, and you can still get it on Amazon dot com. It's a good read.

Say what you will about him, even with all his well known warts, Foreman was one of the most interesting characters who ever came along.

http://www.amazon.com/King-courtroom-Percy...0747&sr=1-1

Edited February 5, 2008 by FilioScotia

[jwphillips2]

At your service. It's King of the Courtroom: Percy Foreman for the Defense, and you can still get it on Amazon dot com. It's a good read.

Say what you will about him, even with all his well known warts, Foreman was one of the most interesting characters who ever came along.

http://www.amazon.com/King-courtroom-Percy...0747&sr=1-1

Bless thee, thrice!

[J W]

To this day, the murders of Fred and Edwina Rogers remains Houston's bloodiest and most sensational unsolved mystery. Countless stories have been written about it, and it's even spilled over into the netherworld of Kennedy Assassination Conspiracy Lunacy. Some of those moonbats believe the suspected killer, Charles Rogers, was one of Kennedy's assassins.

Check this out. http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/spe...eory/knoll.html

Here's another site with everything you ever wanted to know about this story.

http://iceboxmurders.com/

The Rogers family lived at 1815 Driscoll St., which is in the Hyde Park section of the Montrose area, east of South Shepherd and south of West Gray behind the River Oaks Shopping Center. Check page 492-R of your handy Key Map. I wonder if the house is still there, and if it is, if the current resident knows what happened there 41 years ago.

I recently found and reread my old copy of The Man on the Grassy Knoll. The book is out of print but copies are still available on Amazon . The first half of the book provides a chilling and detailed account of the Rogers murders. Its only in the second half that the authors go off into the ozone trying to connect Charles Rogers to the Kennedy asassination. Even then it works as a suspense novel . There is lots of references to places , addresses and businesses from the old "lost " Houston of the 50's and 60's . Any regular visitor to this Historic Houston forum might want to check it out .

[KimberlySayWhat]

I remember my parents talking about this once.

Sadly, it's nothing very shocking compared to anything else that goes on nowadays.

When I was little or before I was born, I'm not sure, there was a teenage boy who lived near my grandparents in North East Houston who decapitated two mentally retarded brothers (little kids) within, I think, about a week of each other.

[Vertigo58]

Ever notice how these nut cases are usually male? Surely we must have a few Lizzie Borden types in our past? Lorena Bobbit just doesnt cut it. I mean she didnt exactly killl her husband just de-capitated "it". So that doesnt count.

Houston must have a few fem fetales with Norman Bates tendencies.

[icepickphil]

I found and bought this book. I'm reading it now and enjoying it.

If you like that book you might pick up The Man With the Candy by Jack Olsen (about Dean Corl/Wayne Henley).

I recently found and reread my old copy of The Man on the Grassy Knoll. The book is out of print but copies are still available on Amazon . The first half of the book provides a chilling and detailed account of the Rogers murders. Its only in the second half that the authors go off into the ozone trying to connect Charles Rogers to the Kennedy asassination. Even then it works as a suspense novel . There is lots of references to places , addresses and businesses from the old "lost " Houston of the 50's and 60's . Any regular visitor to this Historic Houston forum might want to check it out .

[Retama]

Both are interesting books. The Man With the Candy ridicules Houston and its residents too much for my tastes.

[Vertigo58]

I found and bought this book. I'm reading it now and enjoying it.

If you like that book you might pick up The Man With the Candy by Jack Olsen (about Dean Corl/Wayne Henley).

Not sure if all of you recall but once they posted a picture of Coryll's house on this forum and some complained and the topic was closed. I mean it was a bad event but it was Houston history. Go figya.

[J W]

Both are interesting books. The Man With the Candy ridicules Houston and its residents too much for my tastes.

Maybe so , but the Man with the Candy has a great chapter describing the old pre-1980s Heights . Many forget that before the Heights was gentrified and yuppied up in the 80s it was a low-income white redneck neighborhood .

[icepickphil]

The chapter you describe is one of the best parts of the The Man With The Candy. Required reading for any Houston history buff!

Interesting that the Corl house photo was removed from here. Are the Corl murders too hot a topic for HAIF?

Maybe so , but the Man with the Candy has a great chapter describing the old pre-1980s Heights . Many forget that before the Heights was gentrified and yuppied up in the 80s it was a low-income white redneck neighborhood .

[Retama]

The Man on the Grassy Knoll also has a good history of the neighborhood where the Rogers murder took place.

Not sure if all of you recall but once they posted a picture of Coryll's house on this forum and some complained and the topic was closed. I mean it was a bad event but it was Houston history. Go figya.

The Pasadena Citizen refused to do a 25th anniversary story on the Coryl killings because, "it would bring people down."

Go figya.

[Subdude]

The chapter you describe is one of the best parts of the The Man With The Candy. Required reading for any Houston history buff!

Interesting that the Corl house photo was removed from here. Are the Corl murders too hot a topic for HAIF?

No. I'm not sure what he's talking about. The thread is here, and the picture is there. It was never closed.

[FilioScotia]

Ever notice how these nut cases are usually male? Surely we must have a few Lizzie Borden types in our past? Lorena Bobbit just doesnt cut it. I mean she didnt exactly killl her husband just de-capitated "it". So that doesnt count. Houston must have a few fem fetales with Norman Bates tendencies.

I remember a Pasadena woman, who in February or March of 1955, killed her two small sons and dismembered their bodies. It happened in a trailer park that's still there, on Pasadena Blvd, one block south of Hwy 225.

Annie Laurie Williams wrapped the pieces in meat wrapping paper, and drove it all to a friend's house in Galveston County not far from Alvin. She told the friend someone had given her a bunch of venison that had gone bad and she needed to bury it someplace. The friend buried the packages in a field behind his garage and forgot about it.

Williams then went on the lam. I can't remember all the details, but when her Galveston County friend learned that she and her two little boys were missing, he remembered all that meat he'd buried for her, got suspicious, dug it up, discovered what was left of the boys, and called police.

To make a long story short, Williams was caught a month or so later, living in a rooming house just a few blocks from downtown Houston. She claimed she killed her boys because her husband -- their father -- was in prison, and she didn't want them to grow up with that kind of shame and stigma hanging over them.

She also made a big show out of "coming to Jesus" while in jail awaiting trial. I remember the papers ran a front page picture of a preacher baptizing her right there in the county jail. (And yes I did say "papers". Plural. Houston had three daily papers back then. The Chron, the Post and the Houston Press. Not the Houston Press we have now. The old Press was a Scripps-Howard daily paper.)

She was sentenced to life in prison, but was paroled in 1980. But wait ! There's more ! Read all about it right here.

http://texnews.com/texas97/parole062297.html

She got into trouble again when she left the state, which violated her parole. It took Texas 16 years to find her, but she was re-arrested and brought back to prison to finish serving life in prison. She's very old now and she'll die in prison.

Edited March 17, 2008 by FilioScotia

[Heights2Bastrop]

If you like that book you might pick up The Man With the Candy by Jack Olsen (about Dean Corl/Wayne Henley).

I used to have the book,

[Vertigo58]

I just remember that when this shocking news of Dean Coryl was 1st broadcast, it freaked out everyone and the media were on it what seemed like 24/7.

If memory serves well, Marvin Z was one of the main guys giving details on ABC 13. We were about 12-14 years old at the time so it really had us worried about talking to strangers and never get close to a strangers car!

PS, the person that complained about us bringing up this specific story is no longer posting but did say HE complained as it brought back bad memories. That he personally knew one of the victims. Maybe he was just venting so we or I assumed he really did have it deleted after speaking to Editor. Oh well, next...

[icepickphil]

If you can track down the film Collectors. http://imdb.com/title/tt0476646/

It's a documentary about these two guys who are essentially serial killer groupies and go around the country collecting artifacts and artwork from the killers. They visit the Sharon Tate home in L.A. (before it was torn down). Naturally the film ends up with them acquiring some paintings that Henley did in prison. He's interviewed and appears in the film. The last scene occurs in Houston when they attempt to exhibit the Henley paintings at a gallery.

from IMDB:

"A feature length documentary about artwork by serial killers; those who make it, the people who promote it and the people that detest it.

I just remember that when this shocking news of Dean Coryl was 1st broadcast, it freaked out everyone and the media were on it what seemed like 24/7.

If memory serves well, Marvin Z was one of the main guys giving details on ABC 13. We were about 12-14 years old at the time so it really had us worried about talking to strangers and never get close to a strangers car!

PS, the person that complained about us bringing up this specific story is no longer posting but did say HE complained as it brought back bad memories. That he personally knew one of the victims. Maybe he was just venting so we or I assumed he really did have it deleted after speaking to Editor. Oh well, next...

[Vertigo58]

If you can track down the film Collectors. http://imdb.com/title/tt0476646/

It's a documentary about these two guys who are essentially serial killer groupies and go around the country collecting artifacts and artwork from the killers. They visit the Sharon Tate home in L.A. (before it was torn down). Naturally the film ends up with them acquiring some paintings that Henley did in prison. He's interviewed and appears in the film. The last scene occurs in Houston when they attempt to exhibit the Henley paintings at a gallery.

from IMDB:

"A feature length documentary about artwork by serial killers; those who make it, the people who promote it and the people that detest it.

Sounds a bit morbid but ever since the book and 1976 movie "Helter Skelter" emerged I was somewhat fascinated by the whole saga. When living in LA I just had to drive to former Tate residence at cul de sac home at 10050 Cielo Drive in Benedict Canyon. It was hard to see from the street. It shoud have been torn down ages ago. The book far exceeds the film as far as important detail is concerned. Another terrible stupid event that never should have happened. I recorded the 20 year update of Charlie's girls. A must see. Parole may never happen for them. An eye for an eye.

[icepickphil]

Just wanted to add to the Charles Rogers thread. I've finished the book The Man on the Grassy Knoll which theorizes Rogers was one of JFKs killers. If you have any interest in the murder case of Rogers' parents it's a must read! I bought it used on amazon.

[RWB]

I recently found and reread my old copy of The Man on the Grassy Knoll. The book is out of print but copies are still available on Amazon . The first half of the book provides a chilling and detailed account of the Rogers murders. Its only in the second half that the authors go off into the ozone trying to connect Charles Rogers to the Kennedy asassination. Even then it works as a suspense novel . There is lots of references to places , addresses and businesses from the old "lost " Houston of the 50's and 60's . Any regular visitor to this Historic Houston forum might want to check it out .

James Ellroy must have read it, because Chuck Rogers and the murder of his parents became part of his novels American Tabloid and The Cold Six Thousand. When I read these books, I was surprised when the story suddenly veered into Houston. Knowing how much history Ellroy weaves into his (admittedly preposterous but very entertaining) fiction, I assumed that the Houston murders must be based on something that really happened. Now I know!

[Tigerjag]

I just remember that when this shocking news of Dean Coryl was 1st broadcast, it freaked out everyone and the media were on it what seemed like 24/7.

If memory serves well, Marvin Z was one of the main guys giving details on ABC 13. We were about 12-14 years old at the time so it really had us worried about talking to strangers and never get close to a strangers car!

Big 2 News was the station to watch though, with news about the Corrl case. I can still see the red mustang that had the car phone and Elmer Wayne Henley leaning against it. I can hear him saying, "Mama... I killed Dean." I think she said Oh Wayne or Oh Baby. That clip played over and over for weeks. I also remember the footage of digging at High Island. That still creeps me out and I wasn't very old at the time.

Houston must have a few fem fetales with Norman Bates tendencies.

There was Karla Faye Tucker. She and her boyfriend killed her best friends husband and a woman who had the misfortune to have gone home with him that night. Her boyfriend used a hammer and Karla Faye used a pick axe. It was very grisly. The bodies were described as "mush" after they got through with them.

She was sentenced to death and then was born again in jail. The 700 Club prayed for her sentence to be commuted to life in prison because she was a changed woman. I remember a friend of mine in another state posting on a message board for everyone to write the Texas governor to pardon this good, good woman! I was outraged!!! I posted the details of her crime and I don't believe anyone on that board wrote the governor.

Anyway, you can read more about her here: Karla Faye Tucker

[Retama]

I can still see the red mustang that had the car phone and Elmer Wayne Henley leaning against it. I can hear him saying, "Mama... I killed Dean." I think she said Oh Wayne or Oh Baby. That clip played over and over for weeks. I also remember the footage of digging at High Island. That still creeps me out and I wasn't very old at the time.

I have much the same memory of that as you do, Tigerjag. I was pretty young at the time as well and it stunned me at the time that there were parents who didn't know where their teenage kids were for days and weeks at a time. But when I stopped to think about it, I realized that many of of us pretty much ran around the territory fairly untethered. Those were the days when parents turned their kids loose to play outside unsupervised. We used to ride our bikes all over the damn country. It was nothing for me and a group of buddies to ride our bikes over to the Lynchburg Ferry cross the channel and plow around the San Jacinto Battleground for the day. I wouldn't anymore let my kids do that today than I would slit my wrists!

[FilioScotia]

I was pretty young at the time as well and it stunned me at the time that there were parents who didn't know where their teenage kids were for days and weeks at a time.

Did you know -- that the Harris County Morgue still has the bodies of five of Dean Corll's 27 known victims?

They've never been identified. The hope is that someday someone who can identify them will come forward.

Police only found 27 victims, but they've believed ever since there were at least a dozen more out there that were never found.

Edited April 1, 2008 by FilioScotia

[Vertigo58]

I have much the same memory of that as you do, Tigerjag. I was pretty young at the time as well and it stunned me at the time that there were parents who didn't know where their teenage kids were for days and weeks at a time. But when I stopped to think about it, I realized that many of of us pretty much ran around the territory fairly untethered. Those were the days when parents turned their kids loose to play outside unsupervised. We used to ride our bikes all over the damn country. It was nothing for me and a group of buddies to ride our bikes over to the Lynchburg Ferry cross the channel and plow around the San Jacinto Battleground for the day. I wouldn't anymore let my kids do that today than I would slit my wrists!

Jumping on trains and riding it all the way to the train trestle and jumping off. We always copied the older kids. One day we had parents searching for my big bro and his pals and I had to lead the way to the hang-out. Felt like a snitch but everyone was worried sick as night came closer. It was around the time of this incident too, so most families were still leary of letting their kids be out in the street. We found them all ok. To this day, you can still see children wondering loose on sidewalks or streets, Unreal!

Yes, they kept showing the digging at High Island and the shed from what I recall. All you could see were plastic body bags and shovels. Pardon the pun but it was overkill.

[redraider]

Did you know -- that the Harris County Morgue still has the bodies of five of Dean Corll's 27 known victims?

They've never been identified. The hope is that someday someone who can identify them will come forward.

Police only found 27 victims, but they've believed ever since there were at least a dozen more out there that were never found.

My grandmother lived on Waugh Dr. and I remember one day a guy pulled up in a car and tried to get me to get in. I was about 13 at the time and my grandmother came out side and the guy took off. A month or so later he was on the news and bodies were being dug-up from a boat shed not far from where I grew up. Weird.

Edited May 6, 2008 by redraider

[icepickphil]

You're saying this was Corl who asked you to ride with him?

My grandmother lived on Waugh Dr. and I remember one day a guy pulled up in a car and tried to get me to get in. I was about 13 at the time and my grandmother came out side and the guy took off. A month or so later he was on the news and bodies were being dug-up from a boat shed not far from where I grew up. Weird.

[redraider]

You're saying this was Corl who asked you to ride with him?

My grandmother believed so. As for me, I really can't say but it was during the same time period and the same hunting grounds that the Candy Man roamed.

[Angela Willis]

I'm almost certain that Stickney didn't have an accomplice, and I think you may be thinking about another sensational murder case that happened in the early sixties. That was the case of a local real estate guy who hired a homosexual male prostitute -- Leslie Douglas Ashley -- and a female prostitute who worked with him -- Carolyn Lima -- to come to his office for "a party". At some point in the activities, Tones got rough and violent and Ashley shot him -- in self defense, as he later testified. Ashley and Lima dumped his body in a nearby vacant lot and burned it.

Taking his car, the two drove to New York, where they were picked up on a minor charge. NYC police learned they were wanted on murder charges in Texas and sent them back. Ashley pleaded insanity, but he was convicted and sent to death row. Lima struck a deal and got a light sentence in return for testifying against Ashley.

In the course of Ashley's appeal, it became clear that the prosecution had withheld evidence regarding his mental condition, and after a new sanity hearing, he was sent to the state hospital for the criminally insane in Rusk. He was eventually pardoned sometime in the early 70s.

I actually met Leslie Ashley on primary election day of 1972 outside an elementary school on the south side, where he and his mother -- Sylvia Ayres -- were handing out campaign cards for several candidates. I was also there "pushing cards" for a candidate, and I was surprised and amazed to find myself talking with the infamous "torch killer". (that's how the local newspapers referred to him during and after his trial) I remember him as a strange but somehow interesting "guy".

Ashley still lives in Houston, but not with that name. He had sex change surgery sometime in the 80s or 90s, and SHE'S now known as Leslie Perez. He took the last name of the lover he had in prison.

Leslie Perez is active in local politics and gay rights issues, and even runs for office now and then. She came very close to being elected Democratic Party County Chairman a few years ago.

[Angela Willis]

I'm almost certain that Stickney didn't have an accomplice, and I think you may be thinking about another sensational murder case that happened in the early sixties. That was the case of a local real estate guy who hired a homosexual male prostitute -- Leslie Douglas Ashley -- and a female prostitute who worked with him -- Carolyn Lima -- to come to his office for "a party". At some point in the activities, Tones got rough and violent and Ashley shot him -- in self defense, as he later testified. Ashley and Lima dumped his body in a nearby vacant lot and burned it.

Taking his car, the two drove to New York, where they were picked up on a minor charge. NYC police learned they were wanted on murder charges in Texas and sent them back. Ashley pleaded insanity, but he was convicted and sent to death row. Lima struck a deal and got a light sentence in return for testifying against Ashley.

In the course of Ashley's appeal, it became clear that the prosecution had withheld evidence regarding his mental condition, and after a new sanity hearing, he was sent to the state hospital for the criminally insane in Rusk. He was eventually pardoned sometime in the early 70s.

I actually met Leslie Ashley on primary election day of 1972 outside an elementary school on the south side, where he and his mother -- Sylvia Ayres -- were handing out campaign cards for several candidates. I was also there "pushing cards" for a candidate, and I was surprised and amazed to find myself talking with the infamous "torch killer". (that's how the local newspapers referred to him during and after his trial) I remember him as a strange but somehow interesting "guy".

Ashley still lives in Houston, but not with that name. He had sex change surgery sometime in the 80s or 90s, and SHE'S now known as Leslie Perez. He took the last name of the lover he had in prison.

Leslie Perez is active in local politics and gay rights issues, and even runs for office now and then. She came very close to being elected Democratic Party County Chairman a few years ago.