METRORail North Line

[editor]

When was that footage recorded? Noon would be my guess. Everytime I ride the bus downtown at noon, its always near empty.

Seems pretty biased to me.

It's probably not intentionally biased. They probably just went out there and shot some video not thinking about the time of day. It's not like they're going to spend $400 to have someone camp out all day and night hoping to catch five seconds of video that represents the day as a whole.

[TheNiche]

I'm seeing maps of a 'line', whether it be BRT or LRT. Niche mentioned it was BRT but I thought it was LRT. Which is it?

And I saw somewhere on metrosolutions that construction for all rails is supposed to start late this summer. I know some may be tempted to reply with a, "yeah right, that's not gonna happen," or something to that affect. Please, don't. Unless it's fact, I'd like to know if the late summer groundbreaking is the actual target date or not.

I also know that LRT will not be implemented on the southeast side until they see ridership demands it, I'm just asking about the north line.

Thanks

They'll extend LRT about a half-mile north to the big transit center that is planned at Hardy Yards, and then it will transition to BRT to the Northline TC.

[nmainguy]

Excuse me there Red - but those weren't suggestions as you very well know - those were quotes from the article in the Houston Chronicliar - don't put words in my mouth and don't credit me for quotes from a paper that were posted by one of your cronies.

I believe I said once that your presence insures none of us would ever be the dumbest in the room...thanks so much for reenforcing that sentiment.

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As far as airport lines go, studys have shown they have the least ridership of any other routes-except for Atlanta in the US. A shuttle connection at an intermodal like niche and Red spoke of is by far more attractive than sitting on a train that stops every few minutes when all you care about is making your flight on time.

[musicman]

However, a couple of other surprises is for storage and staging of the BRT's For some reason, I suspected they were going to build a new facilty where they could house them nearby and later convert it to a rail yard.

There's already a LR facility on the south end of the line which would probably be adequate.

As for building a faciltiy to stage BRT vehicles i.e. buses, they already have several over the Houston area which would suffice.

[DaTrain]

I don't know about you guys, but I would rather take a cab the airport then LRT.

How long has it been since the Red Line opened? 2 years? The blue seats already have bodily fluid look alike stains on them. It makes me sick. Not to mention some of the people that ride the train who... listen to loud music that scream out cuss words infront of little children. I can't really get mad at the crack heads who stare and make weird noises. (I can vouch for the crack heads, I've seen them light up before walking on the train, but thats only after hours... so what can one expect?).

I would feel much more comfortable & safer taking a cab with my suitcase & say, one piece of luggage, to the airport (not to mention how much time I would save). Imagine having to stop at every red light, and then passing threw fabulous Greenspoint & the awesome views of the billboarded crack motel 45.

Did you ever stop to think that it's METRO's fault when it comes to the seats? I remember when it first opened the LRVs had PLASTIC SEATING! A number of transit system use plastic seats so that when somebody pees or poos on the seats that the plastic is cleaned up, just like that - no stains. Unfortunately, METRO chose to replace the plastic seats -- uncomfortability is no excuse -- with UPHOLSTERED SEATING! Big mistake. When someone pees or poos on the seats, upholstery is much more difficult to clean out the pee and the poo because of the material, and it costs money to replace it. There will be a time when METRORail riders with home training will complain and b*tch about it soon; people in the Bay Area who ride the 30-plus year old BART system (click link) have been complaining about piss on the upholstery seats for months now. At least METRO Rail doesn't have carpet seats full of pus spots. yuck

[ssullivan]

Did you ever stop to think that it's METRO's fault when it comes to the seats? I remember when it first opened the LRVs had PLASTIC SEATING! A number of transit system use plastic seats so that when somebody pees or poos on the seats that the plastic is cleaned up, just like that - no stains. Unfortunately, METRO chose to replace the plastic seats -- uncomfortability is no excuse -- with UPHOLSTERED SEATING!

Metro never had plastic seat covers on its LRVs. I rode MetroRail on January 1, 2004, its first day of operation, and the seats were the same ones that they have now. I have pictures from that day and the seats are the same.

However, most of Metro's buses have plastic seats with vinyl cushions.

[lockmat]

Have yall seen this rendering of a possible elevated portion on this line? I just saw it. Thought for those of you who haven't might be intersted to see it as well.

http://www.metrosolutions.org/clients/1068...g?0.31333135336

I tried to get it in here directly, but it kept telling me dynamic pages in IMG tags are not allowed. I don't know what that means or how to get them out of there.

[woolie]

Have yall seen this rendering of a possible elevated portion on this line? I just saw it. Thought for those of you who haven't might be intersted to see it as well.

http://www.metrosolutions.org/clients/1068...g?0.31333135336

I tried to get it in here directly, but it kept telling me dynamic pages in IMG tags are not allowed. I don't know what that means or how to get them out of there.

the GET parameters passed in the URI (the ?param=value&param2=value2..etc stuff) is what it's complaining about. Just chop them off and hope it still works.

[lockmat]

North line set to begin construction:

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/heights/news/4815169.html

Quotes I found interesting:

construction on that 5.4-mile line from the University of Houston-Downtown to Northline Mall could break ground in early July.

Though most of the major construction would not start until after the design/construction contract is awarded in February 2008, Finn said the project would break ground in early July and some construction activities would start soon after.

...I was younger and hardly aware of the details when the red line was built. Do yall think they intend to go about construction in the same phases? If so, what kind of construction would begin now and what does "major construction" entail?

And I guess the contract that METRO gave the Washinton group a couple weeks ago was more or less an agreement that they would build it, and different from the "design/construction contract" which is to be "awarded in Feb 2008?"

Before the Metro board approved the route last fall, the preferred alignment was switched from Irvington/Cavalcade to Fulton because that is what the community wanted, Finn said

What's yalls take on this for those who are familiar with the area? Was it a change for the better or worse? Why did the community decide that route would be better? Did it avoid residential or something?

Jack Drake, president of the Greater Greenspoint Management District and a North Corridor Coalition member, asked if Metro would consider converting the North line from a bus rapid transit system to a light rail system when ridership numbers climbed high enough.

Finn said that it would. In fact, he said, if the Washington Group found a way to build a light-rail line with money allocated in the initial project, they could forego the bus-rapid transit system. If not, tracks for the light-rail system would be constructed in the bus-rapid transit guideway.

I thought this was always the case for all the lines; BRT or GRT until ridership justified LRT?

And what do they mean, "if the WA Group found a way to build LRT with money allocated?" Would they have to get cheaper trains to do that or what?

[citykid09]

I thought this was always the case for all the lines; BRT or GRT until ridership justified LRT?

And what do they mean, "if the WA Group found a way to build LRT with money allocated?" Would they have to get cheaper trains to do that or what?

You know METRO just told Houston that right? Do you really think they are going to go back and change those buses in to light rail? No they are not. I don't think Houston will ever have a true urban transit system. They had already went cheap when they used light rail instead of heavy rail, now there using some damn guided buses? How cheap is that? I could see if the guided bus lines were something extra they threw in addition to light rail, but no they are showing Houston that its not worth of a true rail system. Yeah, yeah, yeah I know cities like San Fransisco have these guided buses, but they are not there main transit based lines, they are used in addition to subways, trolleys, regular buses, commuter rail etc.

[N Judah]

What the heck? Guided buses in S. F. ?

[citykid09]

^Yeah: http://www.sfcta.org/vanness

[ricco67]

You know METRO just told Houston that right? Do you really think they are going to go back and change those buses in to light rail? No they are not. I don't think Houston will ever have a true urban transit system. They had already went cheap when they used light rail instead of heavy rail, now there using some damn guided buses? How cheap is that? I could see if the guided bus lines were something extra they threw in addition to light rail, but no they are showing Houston that its not worth of a true rail system. Yeah, yeah, yeah I know cities like San Fransisco have these guided buses, but they are not there main transit based lines, they are used in addition to subways, trolleys, regular buses, commuter rail etc.

The main problem was the fact that people in washington (I.E. Delay) and some closed minded people here. The Red line was purchased using METRO'S own funds without funds from Washington. As it's been explained on here numerous times, this only infuriated Delay and made him dig in his heels. with Culberson being Adamant about being against light rail, Metro had to do some serious compromises.

It's only my hope that as Houston continues to expand it's Light Rail and BRT system, more enlightened people will come to recognize how Mass transit should benefit everyone in the city, just not harm or help a few.

[Gary]

You know METRO just told Houston that right? Do you really think they are going to go back and change those buses in to light rail? No they are not. I don't think Houston will ever have a true urban transit system. They had already went cheap when they used light rail instead of heavy rail, now there using some damn guided buses? How cheap is that? I could see if the guided bus lines were something extra they threw in addition to light rail, but no they are showing Houston that its not worth of a true rail system. Yeah, yeah, yeah I know cities like San Fransisco have these guided buses, but they are not there main transit based lines, they are used in addition to subways, trolleys, regular buses, commuter rail etc.

If you cared to read the article all the way through, you would notice that light rail is the long term plan for these routs. In fact light rail may be used intially instead of the bus system planned.

"Jack Drake, president of the Greater Greenspoint Management District and a North Corridor Coalition member, asked if Metro would consider converting the North line from a bus rapid transit system to a light rail system when ridership numbers climbed high enough.

Finn said that it would. In fact, he said, if the Washington Group found a way to build a light-rail line with money allocated in the initial project, they could forego the bus-rapid transit system. If not, tracks for the light-rail system would be constructed in the bus-rapid transit guideway".

[lockmat]

If you cared to read the article all the way through, you would notice that light rail is the long term plan for these routs. In fact light rail may be used intially instead of the bus system planned.

I think what he meant is that the city is lying to the citizens and it's all just talk; that they really never intend on replacing it with LRT.

[citykid09]

If you cared to read the article all the way through, you would notice that light rail is the long term plan for these routs. In fact light rail may be used intially instead of the bus system planned.

"Jack Drake, president of the Greater Greenspoint Management District and a North Corridor Coalition member, asked if Metro would consider converting the North line from a bus rapid transit system to a light rail system when ridership numbers climbed high enough.

Finn said that it would. In fact, he said, if the Washington Group found a way to build a light-rail line with money allocated in the initial project, they could forego the bus-rapid transit system. If not, tracks for the light-rail system would be constructed in the bus-rapid transit guideway".

And as I said its all a lie, METRO is just saying that. I will bet all of you that in 50 years it will still be a guided bus line.

But maybe you guys are right, maybe light rail will happen.

[lockmat]

And as I said its all a lie, METRO is just saying that. I will bet all of you that in 50 years it will still be a guided bus line.

But maybe you guys are right, maybe light rail will happen.

If population estimates are met, ridership will increase, and LRT will happen.

[Gary]

I think what he meant is that the city is lying to the citizens and it's all just talk; that they really never intend on replacing it with LRT.

Ok, but instead of CK jumping to rediculous conclusions, he would realize that the article has more to it than just replacing bus transit in the future. To fly off the handle with the "it's all a lie" comment is goofy at best, as well as the fact that there is no merit to the statement anyway.

I think it's important to remember (and I was encouraged by) that Finn says: "if the Washington Group found a way to build a light-rail line with money allocated in the initial project, they could forego the bus-rapid transit system"

To me that has the potential to be very good news.

[lockmat]

Ok, but instead of CK jumping to rediculous conclusions, he would realize that the article has more to it than just replacing bus transit in the future. To fly off the handle with the "it's all a lie" comment is goofy at best, as well as the fact that there is no merit to the statement anyway.

I think it's important to remember (and I was encouraged by) that Finn says: "if the Washington Group found a way to build a light-rail line with money allocated in the initial project, they could forego the bus-rapid transit system"

To me that has the potential to be very good news.

Yeah, I agree.

[citykid09]

I know that you guys are all ready hatting me for my comments, but that rail line that METRO already built is just a street car in a light rails body. Those things are like 2 cars long, nothing like the ones in Dallas or other major cities at all. And those BRTs are nothing more than fancy buses that still run on regular streets. Face it, Houston always has the minimum in anything that has to do with rail. Look at the BRT in San Francisco: http://www.sfcta.org/vanness looks more like a rail line to me than some bus on the street.

I can't wait to here your comments!

[Trae]

So, because the LRT trains Houston has now looks nothing like those heavy rail transit trains in SF, it isn't light rail anymore?

[musicman]

Finn said that it would. In fact, he said, if the Washington Group found a way to build a light-rail line with money allocated in the initial project, they could forego the bus-rapid transit system. If not, tracks for the light-rail system would be constructed in the bus-rapid transit guideway".

when METRO decided to go BRT, their literature said that the tracks were going to be built during the first phase and the electrical wire would be added later. if the quote from above is correct, seems like they are taking a step back from their initial plan.

[ricco67]

Ok, but instead of CK jumping to rediculous conclusions, he would realize that the article has more to it than just replacing bus transit in the future. To fly off the handle with the "it's all a lie" comment is goofy at best, as well as the fact that there is no merit to the statement anyway.

I think it's important to remember (and I was encouraged by) that Finn says: "if the Washington Group found a way to build a light-rail line with money allocated in the initial project, they could forego the bus-rapid transit system"

To me that has the potential to be very good news.

when METRO decided to go BRT, their literature said that the tracks were going to be built during the first phase and the electrical wire would be added later. if the quote from above is correct, seems like they are taking a step back from their initial plan.

It does seem as if (to me) it can be read in a couple of different ways.

To me it seems as if they are willing to forego (I.E. Bypass the BRT) and simply go straight to rail. To me, it reads as if they're almost ready to skip a stage.

[RedScare]

when METRO decided to go BRT, their literature said that the tracks were going to be built during the first phase and the electrical wire would be added later. if the quote from above is correct, seems like they are taking a step back from their initial plan.

Not if you read what they said carefully. If the light rail is built, there would be no BRT guideway, i.e., no asphalt covering the track. If light rail is not built, the asphalt will cover the track.

[musicman]

Not if you read what they said carefully. If the light rail is built, there would be no BRT guideway, i.e., no asphalt covering the track. If light rail is not built, the asphalt will cover the track.

i must be reading a different article because i don't see anything about asphalt. the rail system is designed to take vehicular traffic as is i.e. the tracks are at street level. putting asphalt on top would be a waste of money IMO. the ones i've ridden in europe share the ROW with taxis and buses.

it was my understanding that METRO had the money to put down the rail now and later they will get money to do the elevated power lines and buy the actual LRT vehicles.

[RedScare]

I know that you guys are all ready hatting me for my comments, but that rail line that METRO already built is just a street car in a light rails body. Those things are like 2 cars long, nothing like the ones in Dallas or other major cities at all. And those BRTs are nothing more than fancy buses that still run on regular streets. Face it, Houston always has the minimum in anything that has to do with rail. Look at the BRT in San Francisco: http://www.sfcta.org/vanness looks more like a rail line to me than some bus on the street.

I can't wait to here your comments!

citykid, no one hates you, but we do wonder where you get your "facts" from. According to DART's website, DART rail cars hold 160 people. Houston METRO's rail cars hold 200, or 25% bigger. You might also be interested in knowing that Siemans, the German company that built Houston's light rail vehicles, is also building the same vehicles for Paris, France's light rail system. Now I know Paris is no Atlanta, but it's not bad. Some people even think Paris is almost as good as Dallas.

Looking at what you consider to be "real" rail, it is clear that you prefer 70s era heavy rail. If you knew how to read government documents, I'd suggest that you look at the FTA rules for funding transit systems. You'd probably figure out why cities are doing the things they do with respect to rail systems. But, since you don't read that stuff, you will always be hopelessly out of touch with your comments. But, we still enjoy chuckling at them.

[RedScare]

i must be reading a different article because i don't see anything about asphalt. the rail system is designed to take vehicular traffic as is i.e. the tracks are at street level. putting asphalt on top would be a waste of money IMO. the ones i've ridden in europe share the ROW with taxis and buses.

it was my understanding that METRO had the money to put down the rail now and later they will get money to do the elevated power lines and buy the actual LRT vehicles.

And, that is what the original quote says...with the added bonus that if the contractor can jump straight to light rail, and skip BRT, they will. Whether the rails are covered or not is immaterial. The original METRO Solutions articles in 2005 described imbedded rails that were covered, apparently to protect them from damage.

[musicman]

And, that is what the original quote says...with the added bonus that if the contractor can jump straight to light rail, and skip BRT, they will. Whether the rails are covered or not is immaterial. The original METRO Solutions articles in 2005 described imbedded rails that were covered, apparently to protect them from damage.

i guess i misinterpreted the quote "if the Washington Group found a way to build a light-rail line with money allocated in the initial project, they could forego the bus-rapid transit system. If not, tracks for the light-rail system would be constructed in the bus-rapid transit guideway" to say that tracks aren't going to be put down. i cant read and watch tv at the same time.

[RedScare]

[nmainguy]

i cant read and watch tv at the same time.

...or walk and chew gum at the same time much less use caps...I'd be willing to tutor you doing the aforementioned five things at once but alas...I've not the inclination nor time...