METRORail North Line

[Trae]

Afton Oaks Not Allowed .

By the end of the day Wednesday, we should know exactly where Metro will expand its lines north of downtown. These lines could lead to more rail.

KHOU-TV

Metro has two routes which may lead to more rail.

There’s plenty of excitement over the two most talked about routs, but neither of those will get you to the big airport.

“Those buses should be full you know, but most of the time they’re empty,” said Mario Umanzor, Poppa Burgers.

Umanzor’s burger shop on North Main could soon have an up-close view of a bus-rapid-transit line, a key part of Metro’s North Corridor expansion plan.

He wonders whether it’s even needed.

“See? See that? See what I’m talking about? The bus is empty. What do we need that for?” he said.

The line would extend downtown’s light rail to just north of I-10, then link up with a new rapid-transit bus route, which would run up North Main and Burnett, ending at the Northline Mall on Fulton.

One plan has the bus line running down the center of Fulton. Some neighborhood groups complain it would force the removal of historic trees.

The other plan would divert the line along Irvington, then run west on Cavalcade to meet Fulton. Roosevelt Elementary sits near the north end of both routes.

Proposed Route 1

Proposed Route 2

More Here Article Link:

KHOU METRO Rail Expansion

When will it go out to IAH.

Edited August 23, 2006 by Trae

[AftonAg]

There

Edited August 23, 2006 by AftonAg

[Trae]

I don't think they are empty. I am sure that if it is LRT, it will spur some people to ride it. Sad news about his business, though.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I think METRO is planning on some sort of financial assitamce to businesses that will be financially hit during construction process......

[TheNiche]

Obviously these are just a bunch of obstructionists that can't see the bigger picture - if the busses on the route are empty what magic will occur to make the trains full?

To clarify, there are no trains on this one. The Northline route is proposed as a BRT corridor.

[Trae]

To clarify, there are no trains on this one. The Northline route is proposed as a BRT corridor.

LRT can be implemented, though.

[zaphod]

Metro-North...

when i clicked on this i though you guys were going to talk about that train that goes from grand central to conneticutt

lol, that news article, not good....

at least it will start out as BRT, then it can be gauged to see if rail is really worth it or if it would be a flop. So far rail seems to be doing real good ridership wise in houston, and the U line will probably get high numbers too. It would be wrong to spoil it by spending a bundle on a pathetically underused route.

Of course, if the planners think this area has potential then who knows.

Edited August 23, 2006 by zaphod

[Montrose1100]

Silly Metro, just when you think they might actually do something worth a damn... Gets me everytime.

[Pumapayam]

Was this topic started to rehash all the stuff going on with the NIMBY's in the University corridor?

[Trae]

No, it was made so my post count can get farther away from yours ...

[Pumapayam]

No, it was made so my post count can get farther away from yours ...

LOL, shouldn't you be in your Atlanta forum???

Yeah I was almost 50 posts ahead of you, trust me, you won't stay there for long. I will always win in a post battle. You are only up 10 at 532 to my 522.

Btw, you need to make sure you cite small sections of your article and not copy and paste the whole thing, even though you sourced the link.

Edited August 23, 2006 by Pumapayam

[Trae]

LOL, shouldn't you be in your Atlanta forum???

Yeah I was almost 50 posts ahead of you, trust me, you won't stay there for long. I will always win in a post battle. You are only up 10 at 532 to my 522.

Btw, you need to make sure you cite small sections of your article and not copy and paste the whole thing, even though you sourced the link.

Thanks. I cut it in half.

[CE_ugh]

When was that footage recorded? Noon would be my guess. Everytime I ride the bus downtown at noon, its always near empty.

Seems pretty biased to me.

[zaphod]

^^^

good point

[ricco67]

You also have to remember, buses are generally close to empty at about noontime. So the news didn't do a good job in clarifying that.

I was at the North line meeting a couple of years ago, and I've seen how enthusiastic they were. The only real concerns were justified:

1: was near the school. Kids WILL be kids, but parents need to teach their kids from being a darwin example, I always say.

2: there is a business along part of the route that has constant traffic by 18 wheelers and they need plenty of room. not sure about the frequency, everytime I drove by it it was closed.

3: one of the routes might result in the damage/removal of a church. I have a feeling they will be able to resolve that. (Ever heard of "Mega-movers?" )

[RedScare]

METRO just announced their decision.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4137371.html

In spite of KHOU and AftonAg's suggestions to the contrary, not one opponent spoke up before the decision. In fact, several told METRO to hurry up and get it built. The only real debates on the North Side Line was WHICH street to put it on, not whether to build it. The residents chose to work with METRO to make changes that were necessary, rather than make scenes.

BTW, for those that don't want to read the article, they chose the Fulton option.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

METRO just announced their decision.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4137371.html

In spite of KHOU and AftonAg's suggestions to the contrary, not one opponent spoke up before the decision. In fact, several told METRO to hurry up and get it built. The only real debates on the North Side Line was WHICH street to put it on, not whether to build it. The residents chose to work with METRO to make changes that were necessary, rather than make scenes.

BTW, for those that don't want to read the article, they chose the Fulton option.

Interesting. I still think it should be LRT and not BRT or whatever the hell they are calling the glorified bus now..............

[Trae]

Very good. If only this happended in Afton Oaks. I am glad it was real simple.

[RedScare]

Map of the recommended route...

http://metrosolutions.org/clients/1068/622...g?0.32142605477

[Trae]

I'm going to go ahead and post the map:

I think the rail line Crosstimbers should have been elevated over Crosstimbers. Houston can't have the rail cross at-grade with major streets.

Edited May 26, 2007 by Trae

[ricco67]

Interesting. I still think it should be LRT and not BRT or whatever the hell they are calling the glorified bus now..............

This line will have enough numbers fairly quickly to convert it after a year or so to Rail, just like the East Line will be.

From reading the article, I'm a little disappointed that they decided not to go for one of the proposals they were talking about tackling the Crosstimbers traffic. Originally they were talking about either going Elevated from the RR tracks all the way PAST crosstimbers, or simply elevating overall those particular portions.

They called that intersection as a "class 5" intersection where traffic is very heavy and needed to find a way to work around it with as little disruption as possible.

Perhaps they should make an underpass for the traffic on crosstimbers? That would help with SOME traffic on there. Or better yet, make it one way. They're already doing that with LYONS, sooner or later alot of major traffic areas are going to have to go that route.

As far as how KHOU was whining about it not going to IAH, actually the NEXT phase on that corridor was supposed to allow an EXPRESS to IAH from Northline Mall and another line would go north (I forgot which street) and go up to Greenspoint with some local stops.

I think it's a rather good plan.

[Trae]

From reading the article, I'm a little disappointed that they decided not to go for one of the proposals they were talking about tackling the Crosstimbers traffic. Originally they were talking about either going Elevated from the RR tracks all the way PAST crosstimbers, or simply elevating overall those particular portions.

They called that intersection as a "class 5" intersection where traffic is very heavy and needed to find a way to work around it with as little disruption as possible.

Perhaps they should make an underpass for the traffic on crosstimbers? That would help with SOME traffic on there. Or better yet, make it one way. They're already doing that with LYONS, sooner or later alot of major traffic areas are going to have to go that route.

Same, because they need to have the line cross over Crosstimbers, or go under Crosstimbers, because there are going to be some major traffic pains if it doesn't. Metro should reconsider only this part.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I think IAH should be on the fast track. That would be a successful line. Cheaper to take the train into town than it would be to take a taxi. I looked at all the proposals from beginning to present and unfortunately non of them include a line down FM 1960 to IAH It would get a lot of use from me

[MexAmerican_Moose]

so when is the projected design due for the part that will reach to IAH?

[musicman]

Same, because they need to have the line cross over Crosstimbers, or go under Crosstimbers, because there are going to be some major traffic pains if it doesn't. Metro should reconsider only this part.

Besides the Irvington-Cavalcade alternative, Metro rejected a proposal to separate east- and westbound tracks onto Boundary and Morris in the short segment where the line would cross over from Main to Fulton. It also rejected elevating the tracks over Crosstimbers for cost reasons.

John Quintero, president of the Parent-Teacher Organization at Roosevelt Elementary School, 6700 Fulton, said concerns about pupils having to cross the tracks were addressed by Metro's plan to elevate the line in that location.

The above is from the Chronicle. If METRO has a problem with elevating the train over one intersection, then it is obvious that they don't care about saving travel time. But they will elevate it near a school so children won't have to walk over the tracks....hmmmm.

I think IAH should be on the fast track. That would be a successful line. Cheaper to take the train into town than it would be to take a taxi. I looked at all the proposals from beginning to present and unfortunately non of them include a line down FM 1960 to IAH It would get a lot of use from me

you can take the nicer buses now from downtown to IAH and it only costs 1.50. It goes on the freeway from downtown to just before the beltway....you can get to airport in a little more than 1/2 an hr. The train will eventually go out to IAH but travel time will definitely be over an hr.

[AftonAg]

LOL, shouldn't you be in your Atlanta forum???

Yeah I was almost 50 posts ahead of you, trust me, you won't stay there for long. I will always win in a post battle. You are only up 10 at 532 to my 522.

I am so glad I found this - It is great to know that for you two posting is all about quantity, not quality, not substance. Just pure bravado - I have more posts than you. It also gives me some insight into how much either one of you really care about these issues.

METRO just announced their decision.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4137371.html

In spite of KHOU and AftonAg's suggestions to the contrary, not one opponent spoke up before the decision. In fact, several told METRO to hurry up and get it built. The only real debates on the North Side Line was WHICH street to put it on, not whether to build it. The residents chose to work with METRO to make changes that were necessary, rather than make scenes.

BTW, for those that don't want to read the article, they chose the Fulton option.

Excuse me there Red - but those weren't suggestions as you very well know - those were quotes from the article in the Houston Chronicliar - don't put words in my mouth and don't credit me for quotes from a paper that were posted by one of your cronies.

[RedScare]

I am so glad I found this - It is great to know that for you two posting is all about quantity, not quality, not substance. Just pure bravado - I have more posts than you. It also gives me some insight into how much either one of you really care about these issues.

Excuse me there Red - but those weren't suggestions as you very well know - those were quotes from the article in the Houston Chronicliar - don't put words in my mouth and don't credit me for quotes from a paper that were posted by one of your cronies.

Oops, I forgot. If one complainer can be found, then it represents overwhelming opposition...at least if the complainer is from Afton Oaks. If you had stayed current on the progress of the North Line, you would know that there was a great deal of support for this line. The only debate was where the route would go.

You know, I have to admit, you have been consistent...consistent in ignoring facts, others and anything else that doesn't support your narrow-minded view of how things should be. You have single handedly turned the rail topics into pissing matches. You even managed to bring former President Clinton into a rail transit topic. Frankly, you make me embarrassed to be an Aggie. From here on, I believe I will just ignore you, just as Mayor White wants me to do with the beggars. Any comments directed at me will not get a response.

[AftonAg]

Oops, I forgot. If one complainer can be found, then it represents overwhelming opposition...at least if the complainer is from Afton Oaks.

First and foremost my original post was poking fun - The article talked about a great deal of excitement and then immediately noted empty busses and a business that would suffer -

You have single handedly turned the rail topics into pissing matches.

Wrong again - it is impossible for one poster to single handedly do anything. You give me way too much credit. The only thing that I have done is thrown a wrench into your self serving diatribe of hogwash. As long as everyone plays by your rules, on your forum the world is fine - which essentially means that they agree with you . .

So you are embarassed to be an Aggie huh - well you should be - and I am enbarassed that my school ever let the likes of you in.

You know, I have to admit, you have been consistent...

Finally you admit something

Edited August 24, 2006 by AftonAg

[Trae]

I am so glad I found this - It is great to know that for you two posting is all about quantity, not quality, not substance. Just pure bravado - I have more posts than you. It also gives me some insight into how much either one of you really care about these issues.

It is just something fun on the side...damn.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

you can take the nicer buses now from downtown to IAH and it only costs 1.50. It goes on the freeway from downtown to just before the beltway....you can get to airport in a little more than 1/2 an hr. The train will eventually go out to IAH but travel time will definitely be over an hr.

Still dont get it. There are tons of people that will not ride a bus but will ride a train, i am one of them. Have an LRT route to and from IAH and it will get ridership more than the current busses.

[TheNiche]

The only thing that I have done is thrown a wrench into your self serving diatribe of hogwash. As long as everyone plays by your rules, on your forum the world is fine - which essentially means that they agree with you . .

Once again, Editor owns the forum.

How has Red been self serving?

How has Red been talking of hogwash?

If you're going to make accusations, I'd ask that you back them up with facts and analysis. That kind of stuff might not be evident to us lowly beings on account of our such weak intellects.

[musicman]

Still dont get it. There are tons of people that will not ride a bus but will ride a train, i am one of them. Have an LRT route to and from IAH and it will get ridership more than the current busses.

I get it. But IMO elitism isn't a reason to build light rail to IAH. Traffic relief is.

Edited August 24, 2006 by musicman

[Pumapayam]

Another rank regarding it being BRT, it is already inline with the Main street line, it would be nice just to extend it, which it is basically doing. :closedeyes:

[Montrose1100]

I don't know about you guys, but I would rather take a cab the airport then LRT.

How long has it been since the Red Line opened? 2 years? The blue seats already have bodily fluid look alike stains on them. It makes me sick. Not to mention some of the people that ride the train who... listen to loud music that scream out cuss words infront of little children. I can't really get mad at the crack heads who stare and make weird noises. (I can vouch for the crack heads, I've seen them light up before walking on the train, but thats only after hours... so what can one expect?).

I would feel much more comfortable & safer taking a cab with my suitcase & say, one piece of luggage, to the airport (not to mention how much time I would save). Imagine having to stop at every red light, and then passing threw fabulous Greenspoint & the awesome views of the billboarded crack motel 45.

[TheNiche]

I don't know about you guys, but I would rather take a cab the airport then LRT.

How long has it been since the Red Line opened? 2 years? The blue seats already have bodily fluid look alike stains on them. It makes me sick. Not to mention some of the people that ride the train who... listen to loud music that scream out cuss words infront of little children. I can't really get mad at the crack heads who stare and make weird noises. (I can vouch for the crack heads, I've seen them light up before walking on the train, but thats only after hours... so what can one expect?).

I would feel much more comfortable & safer taking a cab with my suitcase & say, one piece of luggage, to the airport (not to mention how much time I would save). Imagine having to stop at every red light, and then passing threw fabulous Greenspoint & the awesome views of the billboarded crack motel 45.

I had to take a cab from IAH to my home near the Med. Center a couple years ago. It was over $40. LRT would've been welcome. I think that Metro should provide armed law enforcement officers in trains, though...especially where there are airport connections.

[Pumapayam]

I thought cab charge a flat rate regarding for airport trips.

It would rock to pay $2 for a direct trip to the airport, that is cheaper than parking.

[RedScare]

I get it. But IMO elitism isn't a reason to build light rail to IAH. Traffic relief is.

So true. And, speaking of elitism, how many airport riders would even take the LRT to Northline and Greenspoint, on the way to IAH?

The new Intermodal is proposed to have an airport shuttle. There is even talk of having a baggage check-in. I would think that kind of convenience, with a Park&Ride coach, would get better and more efficient use than the LRT. Long range, a commuter line, with a stop at IAH, on the way to Kingwood, would work as well.

[TheNiche]

I thought cab charge a flat rate regarding for airport trips.

It would rock to pay $2 for a direct trip to the airport, that is cheaper than parking.

They did...or claimed to. But then, I'm not familiar with the rate schedule (and I'll bet most people aren't), so I could've gotten ripped off. But even then $40 for not quite that many miles is pretty standard, I'd think.

So true. And, speaking of elitism, how many airport riders would even take the LRT to Northline and Greenspoint, on the way to IAH?

The new Intermodal is proposed to have an airport shuttle. There is even talk of having a baggage check-in. I would think that kind of convenience, with a Park&Ride coach, would get better and more efficient use than the LRT. Long range, a commuter line, with a stop at IAH, on the way to Kingwood, would work as well.

Truthfully, Red, I like your idea rather than an airport LRT. In any case, we need something to that effect.

Say, Red...I was wondering what you thought of my "Iron Tripod" idea.

[zaphod]

Metro should be like WMATA(DC transit authority)

You do stuff your not supposed to on the train, your ass is theirs. Some girl got handcuffed for eating french fries... Its sort of harsh, but hell, its the cleanest and safest subway anywhere.

[Trae]

I don't know about you guys, but I would rather take a cab the airport then LRT.

How long has it been since the Red Line opened? 2 years? The blue seats already have bodily fluid look alike stains on them. It makes me sick. Not to mention some of the people that ride the train who... listen to loud music that scream out cuss words infront of little children. I can't really get mad at the crack heads who stare and make weird noises. (I can vouch for the crack heads, I've seen them light up before walking on the train, but thats only after hours... so what can one expect?).

I would feel much more comfortable & safer taking a cab with my suitcase & say, one piece of luggage, to the airport (not to mention how much time I would save). Imagine having to stop at every red light, and then passing threw fabulous Greenspoint & the awesome views of the billboarded crack motel 45.

You gotta be ____ed up if you think Cabs aren't dirty. They smell like more ass than LRT trains. You have my word on that.

Edited August 25, 2006 by Trae

[Pumapayam]

They smell like more ass than LRT trains. You hsve my word on that.

It is likely because the driver is Indian or Paki, and they eat alot of Kuri in thier diet. That is was causes them to stink as bad as they do.

[ssullivan]

While a line to IAH would be nice, most of the riders will probably be the same people who are on the 102 Bush IAH Express bus now -- airport employees, and people who live in the Greenspoint area. The simple fact remains that the majority of business travelers who are going to/from IAH are either going to rent a car, or take a hotel shuttle or cab. Cabs to IAH aren't cheap, but when you're traveling on a corporate expense account, they're usually not considered an outrageous expense. And traveling with luggage on public transit can be a pain. I've done it many times, but it's not always easy.

I think light rail lines to both IAH and HOU should both be in Metro's long-range plans, and should eventually be built. But I think they should be a much lower priority than getting a very good system that connects the city's central core up and running. That's where the real ridership and growth potential is. Metro needs to focus on areas where many people will use the system on a regular basis, not where they'll use it a few times a year when they're heading out of town.

[musicman]

So true. And, speaking of elitism, how many airport riders would even take the LRT to Northline and Greenspoint, on the way to IAH?

The new Intermodal is proposed to have an airport shuttle. There is even talk of having a baggage check-in. I would think that kind of convenience, with a Park&Ride coach, would get better and more efficient use than the LRT. Long range, a commuter line, with a stop at IAH, on the way to Kingwood, would work as well.

i've taken the current bus from downtown to IAH. I personally thought it worked well since the entire trip was freeway til the beltway/greenspoint area.

[ricco67]

Personally, I think someone's idea mentioned earlier (on this thread or another), that it it should be a stop on a commuter rail line. say going to either the woodlands or Kingwood.

better yet, why not make it a LRT line that simply goes from Humble along 1960, dip down to IAH, and then to continue on west down 1960? I think something like that (in several years) would do quite well, it would provide a stop to those living in humble to move to more points along that northern region.

But of course, this probably wouldn't happen until way after I'm pushing up daisies. out of the ground.

[musicman]

I had to take a cab from IAH to my home near the Med. Center a couple years ago. It was over $40. LRT would've been welcome. I think that Metro should provide armed law enforcement officers in trains, though...especially where there are airport connections.

Just having a system where the ticket would actually be checked would sure elminate many problems. People (homeless) know they can ride it free and do.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

Just having a system where the ticket would actually be checked would sure elminate many problems. People (homeless) know they can ride it free and do.

I agree with your rationale, but it's not practical to check every ticket on every trip on light rail. Too many passengers; it would slow the system down too much.

I just got back from a couple days in Vancouver last week. My wife and I had a chance to take their SkyTrain, Sea Bus, and some of the local busses.

Tickets were checked on the bus, but not on the SkyTrain or Sea Bus. Reason being that there are only a handful of passengers getting on the bus, compared to tens or hundreds of people getting on at each stop on the SkyTrain and Sea Bus.

[musicman]

I agree with your rationale, but it's not practical to check every ticket on every trip on light rail. Too many passengers; it would slow the system down too much.

well then noone can complain of homeless on the light rail.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

well then noone can complain of homeless on the light rail.

METRO could step up its enforcement through officers checking tickets. I've never once seen a METRO officer checking for tickets on the train.

[DaTrain]

The very thought of METRO running BRT-convert-to-LRT line with traffic at Crosstimbers is just asinine when they plan to elevate it away from the lil kids and nowhere else. It's a shame that they have to cut corners that way. **SMH** Hell, just build a continuous bridge from the school on up to Northline Mall ABOVE Crosstimbers. At least it won't tackle the RR crossing on Fulton that way. But whatever, goes to show that Houston doesn't knwo the meaning of: "U gotta spend money to make money."

[Trae]

The very thought of METRO running BRT-convert-to-LRT line with traffic at Crosstimbers is just asinine when they plan to elevate it away from the lil kids and nowhere else. It's a shame that they have to cut corners that way. **SMH** Hell, just build a continuous bridge from the school on up to Northline Mall ABOVE Crosstimbers. At least it won't tackle the RR crossing on Fulton that way. But whatever, goes to show that Houston doesn't knwo the meaning of: "U gotta spend money to make money."

Or better yet, a subway . But seriously, they need a bridge over Crosstimbers, unless they want accidents and more traffic pile-ups daily.