METRORail University Line

[TheNiche]

has the main st traffic eased?

Yes, in my experience, but only because people are uncomfortable using it.

[musicman]

Yes, in my experience, but only because people are uncomfortable using it.

that poor design gets em everytime.

[nmainguy]

i must not have had my microscope during the election. When i read Westpark, I thought it would go there.

Why would you think it would go on Westpark.? Westpark dead-ends at Kirby-a little more than 2 miles west of Wheeler. The ballot never said Westpark Dr. It said Westpark:

4. WESTPARK

**Wheeler Station to Hillcroft Transit Center

Ballots and maps were readily available for study before the election. If you didn't study the measure before-hand, just say so and be done with it.

[ricco67]

I think "MUTTRO" is a word AO simply using because he heard the term used conserative talk show host or something since he didn't use that particular phrase until just recently. Either way, it sounds annoyingly childish.

I don't think AO's mind will ever change his mind on the subject no matter how logical it is, he's set that he's right and we're wrong.

He has had an advantage, though in the fact that it's far easier to be against something than to be for it. It has been that way for quite some time and those that simply don't want something will rally to be against it unless someone has the stones to simply push it through.

This is basically why I'm not wasting my time typing a proper response to AO.

It's simply a waste of time, but I do say one thing, it's really time to rally other people and jump up and make additional phone calls to make sure the line is built. Culberson's inconsistant stance on the matter no longer matter due to the fact that he now has two more years, the real question should be; Now that he won the election, will this be put on his back burner?

are we as a HAIF group willing to go to the meetings when possible in addition to writing letters and phonecalls and getting are neighbors involved as well?

To be passionate in a cause will get things done while it's simple enough to shoot off a letter and make a call, we're not large enough in numbers on this system, perhaps it's time to reach out and include even more systems around the city as well as our neighbors.

I'm sure it would also help if we call METRO and support them as well as calling the opposition. One gets more confident if they know you have people backing you up.

[musicman]

Why would you think it would go on Westpark.? Westpark dead-ends at Kirby-a little more than 2 miles west of Wheeler. The ballot never said Westpark Dr. It said Westpark:

Hmmmm when i read Westpark, that means Westpark, not another street That's like saying you'd vote for George and then after the election you found out it was Bush not Stephanopolous.I know you'd be pissed

Ballots and maps were readily available for study before the election. If you didn't study the measure before-hand, just say so and be done with it.

I did read and study the measure beforehand....but the problem is METRO didn't come out with the actual plan til AFTER the election. I've got to make my decision based on what was presented. But like i said earlier in the thread, we had to vote for an all or nothing transit plan, which was the smart thing for METRO to do because the rail item was too controversial

[musicman]

From today's paper

Culberson not budging on rail-bypass stance

Congressman's office calls Metro's assessment of option 'disappointing'

The chief congressional critic of the Metropolitan Transit Authority's plan to put light rail on Richmond refused Friday to endorse or condemn new proposals that would bypass his Afton Oaks constituents who have strongly opposed the line.

U.S. Rep. John Culberson, R-Houston, would say only that he supports a route that Metro officials say is the least viable under consideration.

It almost entirely avoids Richmond, traveling from downtown along Southwest Freeway and Westpark to the Hillcroft Transit Center.

In response to Houston Chronicle questions, Culberson mostly repeated variations of the same statement:

"The route I support is the one approved by the voters and the Metro board in the 2003 rail referendum, with the slight modification that it go down the Southwest Freeway without taking a lane of traffic or damaging neighborhoods."

He was referring to voters' narrow approval of Metro's $1.23 billion rapid transit expansion plans, including a ballot item for a "Westpark corridor" that Culberson and others say requires Metro to put the line on that thoroughfare south of Richmond.

"I'm working hard to help Metro keep their word," he said.

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4422393.html

[nmainguy]

musicman Posted Today, 07:11 AM

Hmmmm when i read Westpark, that means Westpark, not another street That's like saying you'd vote for George and then after the election you found out it was Bush not Stephanopolous.

Nice try, Aftonag, Jr.

[musicman]

Nice try, Aftonag, Jr.

Ouch....and it's the holiday season.

[Pumapayam]

i must not have had my microscope during the election. When i read Westpark, I thought it would go there.

light rail will ease traffic on richmond based on? has the main st traffic eased?

Less people could avoid using their cars to drive on Richmond if a Light Rail Train is already doing the same thing.

It is the same idea that buses do for traffic, 1 bus = ## of cars removed from highways and road.

You already know that, don't act all ignorant.

[musicman]

Less people could avoid using their cars to drive on Richmond if a Light Rail Train is already doing the same thing.

It is the same idea that buses do for traffic, 1 bus = ## of cars removed from highways and road.

You already know that, don't act all ignorant.

less people COULD....but METRO's guesstimate of 10-15k....seems low for the expenditure. since we already have buses going donw richmond, which ones would you kill?

i still think the area around montrose will defnintiely be hurt because ROWs are relatively small there. i'm still leery about their attempts to keep existing lanes AND add rail.

[TheNiche]

Less people could avoid using their cars to drive on Richmond if a Light Rail Train is already doing the same thing.

It is the same idea that buses do for traffic, 1 bus = ## of cars removed from highways and road.

You already know that, don't act all ignorant.

The question is from which highway/road are those cars being removed. Just because the LRT (which stands for Light Rapid Transit, btw) is placed on Richmond doesn't mean that most of the private vehicles removed from roads would've been traveling on Richmond. Since the line will be fed by busses coming from all over a very broad area, as well as by the relatively few people with origin and destinations each accessible by LRT, the marginal impact to traffic demand for lanes on Richmond is likely to be pretty small. I'd also suspect that, in contrast to the Red Line, where there are plenty of high-capacity parallel north/south alternates to Main Street and Fannin that are readily available, there won't be as much Richmond traffic diverted to the SW Freeway, W. Alabama, or Westheimer, because they are spaced further apart and the cost of detouring is higher.

Like musicman, I'm skeptical of the notion that no lane capacity would be impacted. However, if METRO were to eliminate a few extraneous stops along the line so as to speed up the system to a reasonable level, I think that the Cummins alignment would be a very acceptable compromise.

Having said that, I'm also curious as to the methods used to estimate ridership for Culberson's idea. The way TXDoT screwed up the Southwest Freeway at Spur 527, and knowing that it won't be fixed for at least twenty years (and probably more), my thought is that having a high-speed grade-seperated LRT route might be able to stimulate a lot of unforseen ridership within only a few years. Hard to say, though.

[AftonAg]

It has. I'll give you that much. But you're still being pretty damned smug about it.

Thanks for the admitting that. I confess I am being pretty smug about it, but considering the attacks and verbal abuse I have endured I don't think it is all together unwarranted. I could be much, much worse - but to what end? As I said the other day - from the AO perspective this fight is far from over . . . the coalition will stick together and continue to do everything we can, within the system, to keep any light rail from being placed on Richmond Avenue.

Nice try, Aftonag, Jr.

Now that is funny Nmain - calling Musicman Aftonag Jr . . . . you need to go read more of his posts his message has been very consistent and he is one of the posters on here that I truly respect. I wish I could say the same for you and your alter ego aftonowl wasn't it?

[GovernorAggie]

A quick word about the term "Westpark". Aren't the western parts of the Westpark Tollway along Alief-Clodine and FM 1093? Just curious.

[Pumapayam]

less people COULD....but METRO's guesstimate of 10-15k....seems low for the expenditure. since we already have buses going donw richmond, which ones would you kill?

i still think the area around montrose will defnintiely be hurt because ROWs are relatively small there. i'm still leery about their attempts to keep existing lanes AND add rail.

There are cross sectional drawing that were shown on the Richmond proposal that clearly showed the amount of lanes and the space allocated for the rail, and even new plants and trees.

Sounds like it was a win win situation regarding your concern over loss of lanes.

It is nothing like the Main street line where we lost 2 lanes.

[musicman]

There are cross sectional drawing that were shown on the Richmond proposal that clearly showed the amount of lanes and the space allocated for the rail, and even new plants and trees.

Sounds like it was a win win situation regarding your concern over loss of lanes.

It is nothing like the Main street line where we lost 2 lanes.

what would your assessment be of Richmond between Montrose and the spur? some of houses/businesses are basically at the sidewalk plus the medians are small. But they they can add 2 lanes for trains as well as a wider median?

If you see if with your own eyes, I think common sense would win over the cross sectional drawing your referenced.

[IHB2]

what would your assessment be of Richmond between Montrose and the spur? some of houses/businesses are basically at the sidewalk plus the medians are small. But they they can add 2 lanes for trains as well as a wider median?

If you see if with your own eyes, I think common sense would win over the cross sectional drawing your referenced.

still no estimate from METRO on the eminent domain that will have to be exercised on the 3 western options. undoubtedly more private property will have to be taken than with some of the options not chosen b/c these 3 require at least 2 wide turns in residential or commercial areas and the train can't turn anywhere near 90 degrees. the option that crossed from Richmond to Wpark at the UP track at least had the benefit of only 2 turns and the turns taking place on existing UP ROW.

[ricco67]

You know, I was actually watching an Exxon commercial in which it showed a bus (I assumed it was a BRT) go along a totally segregated pathway with two high fences on either side.

I think it the design and accepted (maybe) if perhaps they simply made Richmond one way with the exception of the trains.

Sorry, random thought/post.

Ohwell, back to my beer.

[nmainguy]

still no estimate from METRO on the eminent domain that will have to be exercised on the 3 western options. undoubtedly more private property will have to be taken than with some of the options not chosen b/c these 3 require at least 2 wide turns in residential or commercial areas and the train can't turn anywhere near 90 degrees. the option that crossed from Richmond to Wpark at the UP track at least had the benefit of only 2 turns and the turns taking place on existing UP ROW.

But the most important thing is Afton Oaks won't be bothered by LRT or the ilk it carries! Let them eat cake!!!

[nmainguy]

http://www.offthekuff.com/mt/archives/cat_...les.html#008539

[AftonAg]

I think "MUTTRO" is a word AO simply using because he heard the term used conserative talk show host or something since he didn't use that particular phrase until just recently. Either way, it sounds annoyingly childish.

I don't think AO's mind will ever change his mind on the subject no matter how logical it is, he's set that he's right and we're wrong.

Ricco - First I have never heard anyone else use MUTTRO - I coined it. I am sorry that you find it annoyngly childish, I see it as a pretty good description of the idiots that are trying to subvert an election and shove rail where it clearly isn't wanted. MUTT as in impure, no pedigree, of questionable descent.

He has had an advantage, though in the fact that it's far easier to be against something than to be for it. It has been that way for quite some time and those that simply don't want something will rally to be against it unless someone has the stones to simply push it through.

I am honestly trying to understand what you are trying to say in this paragraph. It seems that you think I am against Railroading Richmond just for the sake of being against it. Not true, and I have stated my reasons for being against it many times. I will remain steadfastly against rail on Richmond even if it comes to pass.

This is basically why I'm not wasting my time typing a proper response to AO.

It's simply a waste of time, but I do say one thing, it's really time to rally other people and jump up and make additional phone calls to make sure the line is built. Culberson's inconsistant stance on the matter no longer matter due to the fact that he now has two more years, the real question should be; Now that he won the election, will this be put on his back burner?

Proper or not you responded and I for one am glad that you did. The answer to the back burner question is a resounding no, it will not be put on his back burner, the anti rail coalition will just not allow that to happen. You ass/u/me that since his term only has two years remaining he will not be re-elected . . . . We will see.

To be passionate in a cause will get things done while it's simple enough to shoot off a letter and make a call, we're not large enough in numbers on this system, perhaps it's time to reach out and include even more systems around the city as well as our neighbors.

As I stated earlier the RAILIES underestimated the size, organization and committment of the Anti-Rail Coalition. It is easy to understand how that happened. Pro rail is the prevailing attitude on this forum. I believe that led many of you to assume that since you are in the majority on this forum that you are in fact in the majority in the general population. Sorry to say that obviously is just not the case. I think you are on the right track though Ricco - in order to have an impact the Pro railies are going to have to get much better organized, and much better funded, the bad news is that we have a huge head start in that regard. You have an uphill battle on your hands. Good luck.

But the most important thing is Afton Oaks won't be bothered by LRT or the ilk it carries! Let them eat cake!!!

MMMMMMMM I love Cake!

[TheNiche]

Ricco - First I have never heard anyone else use MUTTRO - I coined it. I am sorry that you find it annoyngly childish, I see it as a pretty good description of the idiots that are trying to subvert an election and shove rail where it clearly isn't wanted. MUTT as in impure, no pedigree, of questionable descent.

I'm not sure how you make the connection between an unscrupulous organization and poor genetic composition...but given that METRO's employees are disproportionately black and hispanic relative to the racial composition of the regional population...well lets just say that I wouldn't be surprised if someone on this forum got really really pissed off with you.

[musicman]

I'm not sure how you make the connection between an unscrupulous organization and poor genetic composition...but given that METRO's employees are disproportionately black and hispanic relative to the racial composition of the regional population...well lets just say that I wouldn't be surprised if someone on this forum got really really pissed off with you.

I personally would have to remove the "and hispanic" portion of your post because at least when I ride I think i've rarely seen anyone but a black driver.

[Pumapayam]

I personally would have to remove the "and hispanic" portion of your post because at least when I ride I think i've rarely seen anyone but a black driver.

before this gets any sillier .

How about that RichmondRail.org site . . . huh . . .who thinks they need to update the site. . .I DO!

[nmainguy]

Ricco - First I have never heard anyone else use MUTTRO - I coined it. I am sorry that you find it annoyngly childish, I see it as a pretty good description of the idiots that are trying to subvert an election and shove rail where it clearly isn't wanted. MUTT as in impure, no pedigree, of questionable descent.

Normally I wouldn't respond to your posts but I couldn't help but take note of your back-handed, racist remark. This is not the place for juvenile, racist rants. You would do well to take it elsewhere before you get so out of hand as to be reported.

[Jeebus]

Normally I wouldn't respond to your posts but I couldn't help but take note of your back-handed, racist remark. This is not the place for juvenile, racist rants. You would do well to take it elsewhere before you get so out of hand as to be reported.

I scrolled up but couldn't find it. What was AftonAg's racist remark?

[west20th]

I scrolled up but couldn't find it. What was AftonAg's racist remark?

Probably this:

MUTT as in impure, no pedigree, of questionable descent.

in reference to Metro employees and management.

Hopefully that comment was just the result of not editing before hitting Add Reply.

[musicman]

Probably this:

MUTT as in impure, no pedigree, of questionable descent.

in reference to Metro employees and management.

It is a putdown yes, but racist?

i'm getting the "rosie calling Kelly ripa a homophobe" feeling again.

[TheNiche]

I scrolled up but couldn't find it. What was AftonAg's racist remark?

He didn't actually make one...at least not intentionally. He was just trying to be cute, like when Rush Limbaugh calls feminists feminazis. The difference, of course, is that on a forum he can be challenged, so cuteness goes out the window...Rush cannot be challenged, on the other hand, because callers are carefully screened.

[Guest danax]

It seems that you think I am against Railroading Richmond just for the sake of being against it. Not true, and I have stated my reasons for being against it many times. I will remain steadfastly against rail on Richmond even if it comes to pass.

Congratulations on what you guys managed to do. If nothing else, it should be an inspiration to the rest of the city as to how to get things done (so, how much did Culberson get under the table?)

I would've liked to have seen rail on Richmond as it appeared to be a promissing route for those hoping for some sort of "big-city urban zone" to finally develop in Houston. Westpark itself just seems like such a waste of a street....you've got to admit.

My question is, really, was the issue with Afton Oaks the fear that rail would indeed spur developement along Richmond as intended, and ultimately cause the tearing down of the neighborhood?

[AftonAg]

Congratulations on what you guys managed to do. If nothing else, it should be an inspiration to the rest of the city as to how to get things done (so, how much did Culberson get under the table?)

I would've liked to have seen rail on Richmond as it appeared to be a promissing route for those hoping for some sort of "big-city urban zone" to finally develop in Houston. Westpark itself just seems like such a waste of a street....you've got to admit.

My question is, really, was the issue with Afton Oaks the fear that rail would indeed spur developement along Richmond as intended, and ultimately cause the tearing down of the neighborhood?

Thanks for recognizing our effort even though we are on opposite sides of the issue. That fear may have driven a few of the residents, but given the amount of tear down and new construction happening in the neighborhood right now I think it would have been an irrational fear. The biggest issue to me was and is the increased traffic problems during and after rail construction that would have made ingress egress to the neighborhood even more difficult than it is now during peak times. Combine that with the fact that the rail would physically split our neighborhood, and likely result in a significant reduction in the numbers of trees along Richmond which, in our opinion, would drastically change the atmosphere of our neighborhood and I believe that those are really the major isuues to AO'ers.

If there was any payment to Culberson under the table I am unaware of it, and would not have supported it, particularly since we donated heavily on top of the table to his re-election campaign - as individuals of course.