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METRORail University Line


ricco67

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So we can destroy Third Ward to build 288, but we can't disrupt Afton Oaks?

Freeways built back in the day were built without much regards to what/who was there before. Nowadays we have to accommodate what/who is nearby planned transportation projects.

Back to the University Corridor, if you look at the 20 alternatives west of Wheeler Station, only 1 appears to have anything to do with Afton Oaks. Based only on a cost/ridership ratio, it ranked 7th. However, other factors besides cost/ridership ratio (the "Federal Funding Ratio") were probably taken into account to chose the 3 finalists. Anyways, even if Afton Oaks people were for rail, it probably would've been better to transition to Westpark anyways because of higher population and employment density near Westpark and Newcastle.

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Anyways, even if Afton Oaks people were for rail, it probably would've been better to transition to Westpark anyways because of higher population and employment density near Westpark and Newcastle.

Even though METRO's own consultants chose a route through AO to Sage as one with the highest ridership, population and employment density-unless you work at the dog park.

Again, short-sighted decisions made by short-sided decision makers. I hope AO will be happy with a future widened Richmond which will more than likely take all the esplanade trees-not to mention huge RR overpasses bracketing their enclave because all parties refused to co-operate: ie METRO, TxDot and the CoH. Again, mediocrity reigns and Houston looses.

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unless you work at the dog park.

under all 3 options, the dog park's a goner.

prepare for the wrath of the West U Dog People (they're the ones who along with the dog also sport the double-wide stroller with baby in one seat and Baby Gap crap in the other).

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While I still prefer a Richmond routing to at least the Greenway Plaza area, I think it's also possible Metro could make the new Richmond-Montrose-Southwest Freeway-Westpark option a very successful routing. This routing does have a big advantage in terms of speed, because it would place much of the line in a dedicated right of way and not in street medians. Travel time from Wheeler to the Hillcroft TC could be significantly shorter with this routing than a Richmond route. The key to making it work will be Metro coordinating excellent bus connections on very frequent local circulator routes that link Greenway Plaza and nearby neighborhoods to the rail line. If this is done right, the faster operating speeds of the trains could offset the transfer time needed to get from a rail line station to the final destination, resulting in no real increase in travel time. If the non-Richmond option could get you from Wheeler to a stop at Edloe 10 minutes faster than a direct Richmond routing, and Metro offers a transfer shuttle from that light rail stop into the heart of Greenway Plaza every five minutes, overall travel time would be about the same. I would envision light rail stations along Westpark being built more like the current Wheeler station than the stations downtown, where buses could stop adjacent to the rail platform to provide easy connections between the rail line and buses radiating out into the neighborhoods. To be effective, this would require Metro to possibly do some significant restructuring of local bus routes in this part of the city, with the addition of circulators that connect to the rail line, but if the headways between buses are short enough during the day, and the bus schedules are tied to the train schedules to minimize transfer times at the light rail stations, the route could be very successful. And if Metro can pull off running some University line trains onto the Uptown line so that some trains provide a direct link into Uptown, it's even better.

Some of this I'm basing on personal experience from riding light rail transit in other cities. I've been working a lot in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area the last few months, and have become quite familiar with the Hiawatha light rail line there, which opened a few months after our Red Line opened here. The line starts in downtown Minneapolis looking very much like our Red Line does on Main St. downtown. Shortly after leaving downtown, the line enters an old railroad right of way, similar to the right of way Metro owns parallel to Westpark where the old freight rail line was. Most of the line runs in this right of way, with a short segment of the line running in the street median through a neighborhood (similar to our Red Line in Midtown, except there are actual houses people live in instead of vacant lots of and abandoned businesses). The line then hits the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport, running through a tunnel under part of the airport and stopping at both terminals. A few miles later the line reaches its southern terminus in the parking garage at the Mall of America. The section of the Hiawatha line that runs in the old railroad right of way adjacent to Hiawatha Avenue is very similar to Westpark in Houston. There are a lot of neighborhoods and businesses nearby, but nothing like the type of residential, retail, and office development you see here in Houston along Richmond. At many stops there is no residential or retail development adjacent to the rail line. However, the line is highly successful, and not just because it hits the airport and Mall of America. Nearly all of the stops outside of downtown are designed for quick and easy bus transfers. Metro Transit has restructured bus routes and schedules in the neighborhoods near each light rail stop so that bus connections are fast and convenient. This results in extending the "reach" of each light rail stop beyond the short distances that riders might be willing to walk to reach a transit stop.

Don't get me wrong — I still prefer a Richmond routing and I'm not about to start supporting Culberson's involvement in this. But I also believe that it's possible to make a Westpark routing for the western segment of the University line highly successful if the bus connections are managed in a way that makes transfers fast and easy, and the Westpark light rail line is built to allow trains to travel at higher speeds.

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Great, I can take LRT to the dog park, whoop'd doo.

I am surprised AftonAg is not all up in here gloating? <_<

No time for gloating. It accomplishes nothing, I did however crack open a fine bottle of Dom Perignon with a few of the neighbors last night. That's celebrating, not gloating. The fight is no where near over. Afton Oaks will continue to support those people and businesses that will be affected by the three proposed routes that MUTTRO has announced. The fight will be over when MUTTRO relinquishes any and all consideration for "Railroading Richmond". Until then I wish each and everyone of you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy and Proseperous New Year.

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So we can destroy Third Ward to build 288, but we can't disrupt Afton Oaks?

No kidding, ditto for the homes in Spring Valley along I-10 that got their homes eaten up. There is definately a difference between expanding freeways and rails in Houston. <_<

I did however crack open a fine bottle of Dom Perignon with a few of the neighbors last night. That's celebrating, not gloating.

Same thing in my eyes, you killed the route with the best ridership and I can't believe you want to spread your poison outside your neighborhood. You did your damage, now at least let the compromised route exist, you can't have EVERYTHING your way. You keep your half (and all your neighborhood free from rail) and we should at least get part of Richmond Ave. It is our city too, quit ruining things!

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Afton Oaks is already an overpriced crap-hole. Some of those dumps are going for 1.1 mil. Nothing but property value.

So we can destroy Third Ward to build 288, but we can't disrupt Afton Oaks?

Overpriced crap hole? You are entitled to your opinion coog - and we are entitled to ours. The real problem here is that we were better organized, better funded, and more vociferous than you and the rest of the railies. Call us NIMBY's or whatever, but we made the system work for us, and that is where the real rub is.

No kidding, ditto for the homes in Spring Valley along I-10 that got their homes eaten up. There is definately a difference between expanding freeways and rails in Houston. <_<

Same thing in my eyes, you killed the route with the best ridership and I can't believe you want to spread your poison outside your neighborhood. You did your damage, now at least let the compromised route exist, you can't have EVERYTHING your way. You keep your half (and all your neighborhood free from rail) and we should at least get part of Richmond Ave. It is our city too, quit ruining things!

See there's the problem. Your perception is that I, as the AO entity, am ruining things. Yet you and the other railies don't care whose property or livliehood you destroy as long as you get it your way. Welcome to America and Democray my friend.

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No kidding, ditto for the homes in Spring Valley along I-10 that got their homes eaten up.

Right near where I live during election season at Washington and I-10 was a glorious monument to the duplicity of one John Culberson. Huge billboard proclaiming "I will widen the Katy Freeway!"

We can all be glad that Culberson is out there "supporting" the businesses and homeowners along the Richmond corridor to the point where the entire city suffers from spending more than needed to be spent on options that arent as good. Wonderful John.

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"bad attitude" (aka dissent) is good, especially when crap like this happens

and political partisans polarize themselves

that was a nice alliteration - almost daffy duck quality :D

You are in error if you equate "Bad attitude" and dissent. You are likely young enough that you don't remember when our politicians could disagree without being disagreeable. They referred to each other with compliments such as "the esteemed Congressman from Texas", or "the honorable gentlemen from North Carolina". I may be showing my age, but in those days our elected officials were able to make their point without insulting those that they disagreed with. I am not sure if it has filtered down from the politicians, or up from the streets.

Calling people "hillbillies" because you didn't get your way probably won't help you win friends, even on this forum. One thing that I can safely say is that I know that the vast majority of the posters on this forum love Houston, and that is why this has been such a hot topic. When you slight Houston, you slight all of us.

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See there's the problem. Your perception is that I, as the AO entity, am ruining things. Yet you and the other railies don't care whose property or livliehood you destroy as long as you get it your way. Welcome to America and Democray my friend.

You are ruining things. You can't be happy that the rail is going to miss your neighborhood completely (leaving you all in the stone age soon), but then you want it off of Richmond completely? It is not going to happen.

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See there's the problem. Your perception is that I, as the AO entity, am ruining things. Yet you and the other railies don't care whose property or livliehood you destroy as long as you get it your way. Welcome to America and Democray my friend.

The city owns the public streets, Afton Oaks does not, you all just were fortunate Culberson rallied with you. Afton Oaks does NOT, and I repeat, does NOT own that stretch of Richmond Ave. Your association dues do not cover any road repair work.

The entire city of Houston (and yes that includes you in that sense) pays property taxes for city maintenance projects.

But Afton Oaks, (just throwing a number out there) makes up less than 1% of the entire tax paying society, yet you believe that you should have 100% say on a road the belongs equally and even more so to the rest of the Houston tax payers. Rail was voted along that corridor and Ricmond Ave made the most sense.

I can't wait for the inevitable parking lot that will exist along Afton Oaks/Richmond Ave. once the remainder of these high density projects are complete, like the Mark II, the HUGE mix used project in the old HISD admin building corner lot. Good luck getting out of your driveways since all these cars will be stuck at light in front of them. :rolleyes:

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Right near where I live during election season at Washington and I-10 was a glorious monument to the duplicity of one John Culberson. Huge billboard proclaiming "I will widen the Katy Freeway!"

We can all be glad that Culberson is out there "supporting" the businesses and homeowners along the Richmond corridor to the point where the entire city suffers from spending more than needed to be spent on options that arent as good. Wonderful John.

There was another Culberson billboard on the Southwest Freeway southbound near Kirby Drive that said, "John Culberson Keeps His Promises!" The message was that Culberson was fighting to keep our borders secure.

Apparently the message didn't extend to light rail...like the promise Culberson made to vigorously fight for federal light rail funding if voters approved a ballot measure in 2003. The voters did their part, Culberson isn't doing his.

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unless you live in upscale Sunset Terrace and now face the prospect of a 35 ft tall track, 30 ft from your back fence, with a multi-ton train passing every 3 minutes 18-20 hrs/day.

litigation likely unless EPA and TCEQ can convince METRO to go sub or cross to Wpark at the UP track.

Where is Sunset Terrace and where is the train going to be elevated?

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You are in error if you equate "Bad attitude" and dissent. You are likely young enough that you don't remember when our politicians could disagree without being disagreeable. They referred to each other with compliments such as "the esteemed Congressman from Texas", or "the honorable gentlemen from North Carolina". I may be showing my age, but in those days our elected officials were able to make their point without insulting those that they disagreed with. I am not sure if it has filtered down from the politicians, or up from the streets.

Calling people "hillbillies" because you didn't get your way probably won't help you win friends, even on this forum. One thing that I can safely say is that I know that the vast majority of the posters on this forum love Houston, and that is why this has been such a hot topic. When you slight Houston, you slight all of us.

i do not equate bad attitude with dissent. the two words were enclosed in quotation marks because another forumer claimed that one person's post was of "bad attitude," while i interpreted it as dissent.

and even if i did equate the two, you have no place putting forth decrees of error of someone's equation of two terms.

enough of the suppositions, too - but i am likely "old enough" to recognize obtrusiveness and conceit

<_<

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But Afton Oaks, (just throwing a number out there) makes up less than 1% of the entire tax paying society, yet you believe that you should have 100% say on a road the belongs equally and even more so to the rest of the Houston tax payers. Rail was voted along that corridor and Ricmond Ave made the most sense.

Well IMO, i'm glad that the residents/businesses along the actual route had some say in the matter. Unfortunately METRO should have done the studies BEFORE the election so that we would have had a concensus. I just makes us look bad. If you were to put an important issue to vote, wouldn't you want to do some work PRIOR to the election to ensure that your plan would be successful?

To say rail was voted along "that corridor" i.e. the Westpark Corridor is true, but to say Richmond is along the corridor is hard for me to swallow. I won't go any further as this has been discussed ad infinitum.

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The city owns the public streets, Afton Oaks does not, you all just were fortunate Culberson rallied with you. Afton Oaks does NOT, and I repeat, does NOT own that stretch of Richmond Ave. Your association dues do not cover any road repair work.

The entire city of Houston (and yes that includes you in that sense) pays property taxes for city maintenance projects.

But Afton Oaks, (just throwing a number out there) makes up less than 1% of the entire tax paying society, yet you believe that you should have 100% say on a road the belongs equally and even more so to the rest of the Houston tax payers. Rail was voted along that corridor and Ricmond Ave made the most sense.

I can't wait for the inevitable parking lot that will exist along Afton Oaks/Richmond Ave. once the remainder of these high density projects are complete, like the Mark II, the HUGE mix used project in the old HISD admin building corner lot. Good luck getting out of your driveways since all these cars will be stuck at light in front of them. :rolleyes:

Puma - Be calm and take your meds . . . I have made the call and a WAHmbulance is on the way.

I have never implied or inferred that Afton Oaks owned any part of Richmond Avenue. What we did was rally our troops to action, write ALL of our representatives, show up at the public forums and make OUR opinions known and OUR voices heard. We worked within the system, we are well funded, and apparently our representatives and METRO heard us. So quit whining, and accept the fact that the portion of Richmond that runs through AO will remain free of light rail.

As for your point about all the traffic jams caused by the mixed use development and the other high density projects I find it humurous that when I cited increased traffic on Richmond, Westheimer, and cut through traffic in AO as a concern you and others pooh-poohed it and informed me that MUTTRO had stated that they would do the construction on Richmond with such that there would be minimum impact to traffic in the area. Those developments were known at that time yet according to you and the other posters traffic was only going to be a very minor, very temporary problem.

Well IMO, i'm glad that the residents/businesses along the actual route had some say in the matter. Unfortunately METRO should have done the studies BEFORE the election so that we would have had a concensus. I just makes us look bad. If you were to put an important issue to vote, wouldn't you want to do some work PRIOR to the election to ensure that your plan would be successful?

To say rail was voted along "that corridor" i.e. the Westpark Corridor is true, but to say Richmond is along the corridor is hard for me to swallow. I won't go any further as this has been discussed ad infinitum.

Well said as usual music . . . . .

i do not equate bad attitude with dissent. the two words were enclosed in quotation marks because another forumer claimed that one person's post was of "bad attitude," while i interpreted it as dissent.

and even if i did equate the two, you have no place putting forth decrees of error of someone's equation of two terms.

enough of the suppositions, too - but i am likely "old enough" to recognize obtrusiveness and conceit

<_<

Go look at your own post sevfiv, never mind I will quote it for you "bad attitude (AKA Dissent)

Yes I am an Aggie but I believe AKA stands for Also Known As . . . . I hope that someday you learn that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

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You are ruining things. You can't be happy that the rail is going to miss your neighborhood completely (leaving you all in the stone age soon), but then you want it off of Richmond completely? It is not going to happen.

Trae - you like many of the posters on this forum want to make this all the fault of Afton Oaks - I guess that's OK, that is what we get for being so visible. The point that so many of you are missing is that the anti-rail on Richmond Coalition is much bigger and much stronger than you thought. Underestimating the opposition is a leading cause of loss in all conflicts. History should have taught you that, but then those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Wasn't there a time in the not-so-distant past that I was the one telling this to you?

Niche? I had given you up for dead . . . you may have made that comment to me at some point, and for the most part I think you have to agree that my decorum has improved markedly with only an occassional slip.

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Niche? I had given you up for dead . . . you may have made that comment to me at some point, and for the most part I think you have to agree that my decorum has improved markedly with only an occassional slip.

It has. I'll give you that much. But you're still being pretty damned smug about it.

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To say rail was voted along "that corridor" i.e. the Westpark Corridor is true, but to say Richmond is along the corridor is hard for me to swallow. I won't go any further as this has been discussed ad infinitum.

Actually it is right in the middle of the corridor according to METRO's ballot map.

thblog_westpark.jpg

BTW, if anyone thought Aftonag would return as a magnanimous victor instead of the immature poster he-or she?-has always been, I'm sorry if you were surprised. MUTTRO?

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Those developments were known at that time yet according to you and the other posters traffic was only going to be a very minor, very temporary problem.

I said the opposite and that Light Rail was a way to ease the traffic on Richond Ave. The traffic issue is not going to ever be minor or temporary, rather it will slowly increase each year and never get better. . .thanx to you writing your congressmen and legislatures. . .nice work. :lol:

BTW, if anyone thought Aftonag would return as a magnanimous victor instead of the immature poster he-or she?-has always been, I'm sorry if you were surprised. MUTTRO?

Curious, is it at least an acronym for anything, or is it just using the word "mutt" in reference to a mix breed dog. If so, it really is not that smart or funny.

Lame. . . :rolleyes:

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Actually it is right in the middle of the corridor according to METRO's ballot map.

thblog_westpark.jpg

i must not have had my microscope during the election. When i read Westpark, I thought it would go there.

I said the opposite and that Light Rail was a way to ease the traffic on Richond Ave. The traffic issue is not going to ever be minor or temporary, rather it will slowly increase each year and never get better. . .thanx to you writing your congressmen and legislatures. . .nice work. :lol:

light rail will ease traffic on richmond based on? has the main st traffic eased?

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I may not know all of the details of this Richmond line, but who would want a rail line going through there suburban style neighborhood? I can see if this all denses. Why not put the rail away from the street so that it does not stop traffic (like the current rail does) I would like to see the rail have its own right of way, away from the street like so that it could go faster. Having it at street level with cars defeats to purpose of having rail in the first place!

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I may not know of the details of this Richmond line, but who would want a rail line going through there suburban style neighborhood? I can see if this all denses. Why not put the rail away from the street so that it does not stop traffic (like the current rail does) I would like to see the rail have its own right of way, away from the street like so that it could go faster. Having it at street level with cars defeats to purpose of having rail in the first place!

a little common sense goes a long way

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Go look at your own post sevfiv, never mind I will quote it for you "bad attitude (AKA Dissent)

Yes I am an Aggie but I believe AKA stands for Also Known As . . . . I hope that someday you learn that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

hence the clarification i made - and i do hope you will (soon) realize that your smugness and clich

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