METRORail University Line

[elecpharm]

West U. favors Metro's rail plan

Council won't back challenge to Richmond line

"Opponents of a Metro light rail line being considered for Richmond Avenue found no allies in their fight to reroute the line to Westpark Drive at West University Place's City Council meeting Monday."

good news for those of us favoring the richmond route.

[Trae]

A line needs to go up Buffalo Speedway, from Richmond, and make a left at Westheimer to Highway 6.

Would a line down Highway 6/ FM 1960 work?

[citykid09]

Really good article!

[dp2]

A shame that:

1) Mr. Crossley apparently doesn't even know how to use the scale on a map

2) Mr. Crossley apparently doesn't feel the need to proofread

3) His sloppiness and errors tend to be more and more indicative of his visioning abilities

Overall (beyond just this article) he raises some good points and ideas, but too often then wanders into goofball territory. I'd use him on the Brainstorming team, and keep him the hell away from the Design, Review, and Implementation groups. Though honestly his creativity seems rather limited, compared to how some would portray him.

[nmainguy]

A shame that:

1) Mr. Crossley apparently doesn't even know how to use the scale on a map

2) Mr. Crossley apparently doesn't feel the need to proofread

3) His sloppiness and errors tend to be more and more indicative of his visioning abilities

Overall (beyond just this article) he raises some good points and ideas, but too often then wanders into goofball territory. I'd use him on the Brainstorming team, and keep him the hell away from the Design, Review, and Implementation groups. Though honestly his creativity seems rather limited, compared to how some would portray him.

How did your article pan out in intown magazine? I didn't see it but I'm assuming you understand the restraints in posting graphics on an 8.5/11 sheet of print...and I'm sure you realize the job of the publication's proof readers.

Other than these sarcastic responses to points one through three in your post, I havn't a clue what the rest of it is about.

[Jeebus]

I agree that about our urban centers and the need to connect them. I also agree that with one good shot, METRO could hit the big 3 heading west (Greenway, Uptown, Westchase), with the possible expansion to extend to the Energy Corridor (Westlake, Park Ten).

I think the developing line to IAH will include Greenspoint, so that's not of much concern. Hobby would be covered by the University Line, correct? The only other area that would need connection would possibly be the southwest side.

[nmainguy]

I agree that about our urban centers and the need to connect them. I also agree that with one good shot, METRO could hit the big 3 heading west (Greenway, Uptown, Westchase), with the possible expansion to extend to the Energy Corridor (Westlake, Park Ten).

I think the developing line to IAH will include Greenspoint, so that's not of much concern. Hobby would be covered by the University Line, correct? The only other area that would need connection would possibly be the southwest side.

Good post, Jeebs but the U Line does not include Hobby...yet. A lot of the routes have evolved from the original plans and to be honest I just haven't kept up with the current changes. I could see Hobby being an extension but I have concerns about mass transit emanating from any airport.

My personal experience is that after being crammed into a tube flying at 500 MPH+ for 3 to 10 hours with many times smelly, chatty people and wailing babies, I long for the silence and comfort of a taxi to get me to my hotel.

[Subdude]

Having direct rail links to the airport would be great. People flying in don't necessarily want to rent a car and drive 20 miles down I-45. One thing I loved about working in Atlanta was that I could take the train from the airport terminal to a block from my hotel. So much easier than renting a car!

Friday night I met a woman who owns a business on Richmond. She was quite vociferous about how Westpark would be a better route. To be honest, I felt bad for her. I think she is legitimately concerned about the impact on businesses during the construction period. Other points she made were that Richmond is very susceptible to flooding, and that a huge bridge would be necessary to carry the rail over the tracks by Afton Oaks. I had thought that Richmond made sense because of Greenway Plaza, but she said that very few of the employees there would be able to use the rail line for commuting.

It's a tough call.

[Highway6]

I had thought that Richmond made sense because of Greenway Plaza, but she said that very few of the employees there would be able to use the rail line for commuting.

What is her basis for saying that ? How could she possibly know where most or even some of the people that work in Greenway live? (besides herself)

Construction will always hurt some people. You can't go by that though, and the people of Afton Oaks, eventhough I feel sorry for them too, they are being selfish. Any city transit corridor should be planned so that it best benifts the city as a whole.... not planned so that it doesn't disrupt a few....

Benefit the whole, don't let a minority part sidetrack it.... This sounds familiar..... 1836, anyone !?!?!

[Subdude]

What is her basis for saying that ? How could she possibly know where most or even some of the people that work in Greenway live? (besides herself)

You know, I didn't think to ask. Her numbers sounded so precise that I just thought there was some kind of survey or something.

She also said that construction would require demolition of a lot of the businesses between Montrose and Shepherd, where Richmond is narrower than it is from Shepherd out. Has anyone heard that?

[Jeebus]

My personal experience is that after being crammed into a tube flying at 500 MPH+ for 3 to 10 hours with many times smelly, chatty people and wailing babies, I long for the silence and comfort of a taxi to get me to my hotel.

Touching on Subdude's post about out-of-towners, I'm sure there are just as many people like your self that would rather take the rail instead of a taxi. Perhaps you could take the rail to get to the airport, and later when you return, you could take a taxi. I know the rail would definitely be cheaper. It cost me $65.00 to take a yellow cab from IAH to my house (highway 6 & Westheimer) back in the fall. Riding the rail couldn't cost more than 10 both ways.

[Highway6]

How does lightrail intersect with existing heavy rail ?

The existing lightrail line doesn't not cross regular railroad anywhere does it?

This new line will have to cross no matter what - westpark, richmond or westeimer.... how does it do this ?

Does it have to go over/under, or can it intersect and just have to stop like regular auto traffic ?

Also.. how expensive is tunneling for brief runs so it acts as a subway ? Is this even fiscally feasible that the City would consider it anywhere ?

Of the three possible East-West possibilities :

I think, it has to run Richmond, at least between Kirby and Weslayn in order to hit Greenway.

Also.. for the Eastern end.. I think Richmond is again the best bet in order to hit UST and the mini-museum district.

Another major issue is how does the rail interact with the Galleria?

It has to be close enough to be effective and I think this eliminates both Westpark and Richmond

But, it also can't add to the traffic nightmare that is Westeimer & 610.

If i had any say.. this would be the proposal i'd put forth for study.

Run the length of Richmond, Turn North on Weslayn, Turn Left on West Alabama.

Have the "Highland Village" Stop at thie location.

At this point, it tunnels under West Alabama becoming a subway... bypassing under Afton Oaks ( Yes they'd still have to deal with construction ), bypassing under the railroad, bypassing under 610 ( avoiding both the Westeimer and Richmond intersections ), coming back to grade just West of Post Oak.

Have the "Galleria" stop here at McCue.

Continue West and rejoin Westeimer bypassing most Galleria traffic.

[Subdude]

How does lightrail intersect with existing heavy rail ?

The existing lightrail line doesn't not cross regular railroad anywhere does it?

This new line will have to cross no matter what - westpark, richmond or westeimer.... how does it do this ?

Does it have to go over/under, or can it intersect and just have to stop like regular auto traffic ?

According to that woman, the plan was to build a large bridge over the tracks. It would need long ramps to keep the grade relatively flat. I don't know if that is really case, or if she was just saying it.

[CE_ugh]

According to that woman, the plan was to build a large bridge over the tracks. It would need long ramps to keep the grade relatively flat. I don't know if that is really case, or if she was just saying it.

It's unlikely they would opt for a bridge. A bridge would require a 25 foot minimum clearance to clear the railroad track. Going underneath the track only requires a 15 ft.

Also Richmond between Montrose and Shepherd is just as wide a Main Street is thru Midtown. Sure some businesses may lose parking space or access to the other side of the roadway. But no demolition should be required

Another thing, what "plans" are she talking about. They have only begun to survey and no schematics have been made.

Another major issue is how does the rail interact with the Galleria?

It has to be close enough to be effective and I think this eliminates both Westpark and Richmond

But, it also can't add to the traffic nightmare that is Westeimer & 610.

If i had any say.. this would be the proposal i'd put forth for study.

Run the length of Richmond, Turn North on Weslayn, Turn Left on West Alabama.

Have the "Highland Village" Stop at thie location.

At this point, it tunnels under West Alabama becoming a subway... bypassing under Afton Oaks ( Yes they'd still have to deal with construction ), bypassing under the railroad, bypassing under 610 ( avoiding both the Westeimer and Richmond intersections ), coming back to grade just West of Post Oak.

Have the "Galleria" stop here at McCue.

Continue West and rejoin Westeimer bypassing most Galleria traffic.

W. Alabama is a non continuous residential street in the heart of Afton Oaks. No Way!

[Jeebus]

This new line will have to cross no matter what - westpark, richmond or westeimer.... how does it do this ?

Does it have to go over/under, or can it intersect and just have to stop like regular auto traffic ?

It can't intersect at-grade because of the electrical lines that power the METRORAIL. If you've ever traveled south on Fannin towards 610, there is a height clearance warning bar with only 12-13 feet of clearance warning you before you turn right and go under the power-lines.

[skwatra]

W. Alabama is a non continuous residential street in the heart of Afton Oaks. No Way!

in his plan, the W Alabama portion would tunnel underdneath (purple=tunnel)

[Highway6]

in his plan, the W Alabama portion would tunnel underdneath (purple=tunnel)

How much more or less disruptive would the construction be for a tunnel be compared to at grade tracks ?

[CE_ugh]

It can't intersect at-grade because of the electrical lines that power the METRORAIL. If you've ever traveled south on Fannin towards 610, there is a height clearance warning bar with only 12-13 feet of clearance warning you before you turn right and go under the power-lines.

theres about a foot of clearance between the bottom of that bar and the actual power lines. The long-distance Metro busses scrape the bottom of the bar but function well in Downtown. Just dont tell anybody with a large truck that.

[Highway6]

It can't intersect at-grade because of the electrical lines that power the METRORAIL. If you've ever traveled south on Fannin towards 610, there is a height clearance warning bar with only 12-13 feet of clearance warning you before you turn right and go under the power-lines.

Ok.. so that means, no matter where it crosses.. this corridor will either have to bridge over or tunnel under, right ?

[CE_ugh]

How much more or less disruptive would the construction be for a tunnel be compared to at grade tracks ?

Just as disruptive if not moreso. Have you seen pictures of the Big Dig in Boston. Imagine that in the middle of a neighborhood.

[ssullivan]

theres about a foot of clearance between the bottom of that bar and the actual power lines. The long-distance Metro busses scrape the bottom of the bar but function well in Downtown. Just dont tell anybody with a large truck that.

The MetroRail power lines are much lower at Fannin and 610 than anywhere else along the route because of the 610 overpass. The overpass is relatively low by modern standards, and because of the low clearance, the power lines dip down there. Over the rest of the line they are higher, hence the lack of clearance warning bars at other crossings.

At the Pierce Elevated crossing, the overpass is higher, so the warning bars are not needed, because the power lines aren't much lower under the overpass than they are along the street.

[Jeebus]

The news (Channel 11) did a story about the Anti-Rail Richmondites. They were at a meeting at what looked like St. Lukes Methodist on Westheimer. It looked like a fool house as well.

(Yes, I spelled fool correctly.)

[The Great Hizzy!]

(Yes, I spelled fool correctly.)

And I'm proud of you.

And putting the rail on Alabama at any point would be a disaster, not just because of the residential component, but because A) you'd have to cross the West Loop via bridge (which would be costly and time consuming to construct) and B.) You'd have a major opponent in the Galleria, which would be greatly affected by large-scale construction lodge between Gallerias I-III and Galleria IV. No bueno.

[Highway6]

And I'm proud of you.

And putting the rail on Alabama at any point would be a disaster, not just because of the residential component, but because A) you'd have to cross the West Loop via bridge (which would be costly and time consuming to construct) and B.) You'd have a major opponent in the Galleria, which would be greatly affected by large-scale construction lodge between Gallerias I-III and Galleria IV. No bueno.

Why bridge over 610...Why can't it tunnel under 610 at Alabama ?

They tunneled under the Beltway and the 610/59 intersection for the Westpark tollway ramps.

I do see that having the lightrail bisect parts of the galleria could be a problem. So why not keep it underground until it passes Sage. Still have a stop at Mccue, but underground with above grade access.. or have the stop directly connect to the underground parking that is already there.

If the Galleria had any say.. they wouldn't pick Westeimer. That is their main access, with much more vehicle traffic. Westeimer would be the disaster.

Richmond is too far south.. For such a major stop, you dont want it half a mile away.

Isn't the only store south of Alabama the foley's and an additional parking garage? And that foleys has bridge access to the rest of the galleria. If ultimately they would benfit from having rail access so close, and at the same time, not screw with their main Westeimer access.. i find it hard to beleive the galleria wouldn't put up with a few yrs of construction pains.

[Saddleman]

Speaking of the Galleria. Has Simon ever said anything about the rail line? Do they have a position? If Simon was to lobby for the line to have stop(s) near, in, or under the Galleria, I'm sure that would go a long way to keeping the line from being to far south. It would seem that a stop(s) near, in, or under the Galleria would be something they would want. A few years of construction means nothing when you think about the benefits that will be reaped for years after. Why not go down Richmond, and then begin to tunnel at the HISD site to the Galleria. That way Afton Oaks has no arguement about unsightly bridges and the line can get people where they want and need to go. I feel for the businesses along Richmond, but I'm calling bullshit on their arguements about the trees and construction. I know that if the city were to say that they were going to widen the street instead and the trees would still have to go...well, those same ones trying to 'save the trees' would be chopping them drop and induring years of road construction because it's good for the city as a whole.

[Subdude]

March 20, 2006, 11:59PM

Richmond rail plan draws a crowd

Most of the 500 at town hall talk oppose Metro idea

By RAD SALLEE

Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

More than 500 people attended a town hall meeting Monday night on the controversial choice of a route for the Metropolitan Transit Authority's next light rail line, most opposing plans to build on Richmond Avenue.

Those who spoke at the meeting, at St. Luke's United Methodist Church, 3471 Westheimer, were each given one minute to talk, and most said they favored a line on nearby Westpark.

Some, like Christina Campbell, said construction on Richmond would disrupt neighborhoods and destroy business.

"The construction will kill businesses and rail will not support businesses there," said Campbell, who owns a hair salon at Richmond and Kirby.

Link to Chronicle article

[nmainguy]

How does lightrail intersect with existing heavy rail ?

The existing lightrail line doesn't not cross regular railroad anywhere does it?

This new line will have to cross no matter what - westpark, richmond or westeimer.... how does it do this ?

Does it have to go over/under, or can it intersect and just have to stop like regular auto traffic ?

Also.. how expensive is tunneling for brief runs so it acts as a subway ? Is this even fiscally feasible that the City would consider it anywhere ?

Of the three possible East-West possibilities :

I think, it has to run Richmond, at least between Kirby and Weslayn in order to hit Greenway.

Also.. for the Eastern end.. I think Richmond is again the best bet in order to hit UST and the mini-museum district.

Another major issue is how does the rail interact with the Galleria?

It has to be close enough to be effective and I think this eliminates both Westpark and Richmond

But, it also can't add to the traffic nightmare that is Westeimer & 610.

If i had any say.. this would be the proposal i'd put forth for study.

Run the length of Richmond, Turn North on Weslayn, Turn Left on West Alabama.

Have the "Highland Village" Stop at thie location.

At this point, it tunnels under West Alabama becoming a subway... bypassing under Afton Oaks ( Yes they'd still have to deal with construction ), bypassing under the railroad, bypassing under 610 ( avoiding both the Westeimer and Richmond intersections ), coming back to grade just West of Post Oak.

Have the "Galleria" stop here at McCue.

Continue West and rejoin Westeimer bypassing most Galleria traffic.

Highway6,

This is an interesting and imaginative solution that I've never considered and I applaud your ingenuity. However [you saw that coming ] as feasable as tunneling technolgy has become-regardless of what the nay-sayers may try to foist on you as "fact"-your route misses important existing and proposed future high density developement. From your Alabama/Weslyan Station, it would be quite a hike to Highland Village. I don't buy it when some say no one would take LRT to Highland-but I do think no one would take it if the hike was that long. Second is your route misses the proposed developement at the old Ford dealership and the adjacent one at Westcreek. I still think the Richmond to Weslyan to Westheimer route is the wisest course. The crossing at the tracks adjacent to Highland could actually be a win-win solution if the LRT tracks and Westheimer were built as an underpass. How many times have I been stuck on Westheimer waiting for the damn train to pass? About a Gazillion. When people say: "Well what do you do about the existing rail while construction is going on?" Refer them to the rebuilt underpass on Shepard north of the loop.

As far as the argument that LRT on Westheimer at 610 would only add to the congestion at that point-of course it will as long as people cram the traffic lanes with single passanger vehicles. If it really becomes a deal breaker, then a tunnel beginning at Mid Lane and terminating at McCue-with underground stations inbetween-could be a realistic solution. The U-Line is not meant to accomodate cars and trucks. It is meant to move people.

BTW, I love your idea of a Galleria station...I would think the owners and merchants would more than salivate through the construction in anticipation of future sales.

[dp2]

How did your article pan out in intown magazine? I didn't see it but I'm assuming you understand the restraints in posting graphics on an 8.5/11 sheet of print...and I'm sure you realize the job of the publication's proof readers.

Other than these sarcastic responses to points one through three in your post, I havn't a clue what the rest of it is about.

I have proofed every article I've ever written. They taught that back in junior high at my public school. Not a good idea when writing about distances to confuse kilometers with miles. Worse to give one set of facts (specific distances) in an article and have conflicting information in the graphics (which are supposed to reinforce your message, not highlight that your information is wrong in multiple ways.) Compounded that neither the quotes nor the graphics ever gave the accurate figure. Not to mention that we aren't talking about lots of complicated tables and charts, but about as simple a graphic as there can be.

Everyone makes a mistake now and then, it really isn't a big deal, but multiple obvious errors in your own publication send a bad message about your competency and how well developed your message actually is. As I said, I think this sloppiness is actually representative and extends through his 'visioning'. What I wrote is pretty clear to anyone who has read much of his work and those of his organization and is familiar with what he is trying to accomplish, and his role in shaping the future of Houston on multiple large and important projects. (Yes, I dearly love the naughty tool that is the run-on sentence.) Some of the ideas that he (and they) are pushing are in serious need of tough peer review, but with the real risk that little such scrutiny will actually occur. Houston has done some great things to improve this town in the last decade, with much more to come, but there are also some real boneheaded ideas being pushed around at high levels that would be tremendous planning blunders if they come to pass. I have yet to be able to discern if he is going to be more a part of the solution or the problem.

That doesn't mean that everyone will agree with my opinion, but it was pretty self-explanatory. Sorry that it went over your head.

[nmainguy]

I have proofed every article I've ever written.

I wasnt referring to "every article I've ever written"-but you knew that

I was talking about intown.

As far as what you might think is over one's head, most of my generation of junior high school graduates can convert metric to imperial before you could even locate a dictionary to define the word "proofed".

Anyway, where were you published and what were your topics? I'm just curious as I can't seem to find any thing you have written other than what has been published here on HAIF.

Don't worry, "everyone makes a mistake now and then, it really isn't a big deal, but multiple obvious errors in your own publication..."......YIKES!!! Now I have a publication???? I demand compensation!!!!!...for my publication...because I'm a poet and didn't even know it!!!!

[Houston19514]

How does lightrail intersect with existing heavy rail ?

The existing lightrail line doesn't not cross regular railroad anywhere does it?

This new line will have to cross no matter what - westpark, richmond or westeimer.... how does it do this ?

Does it have to go over/under, or can it intersect and just have to stop like regular auto traffic ?

Also.. how expensive is tunneling for brief runs so it acts as a subway ? Is this even fiscally feasible that the City would consider it anywhere ?

Of the three possible East-West possibilities :

I think, it has to run Richmond, at least between Kirby and Weslayn in order to hit Greenway.

Also.. for the Eastern end.. I think Richmond is again the best bet in order to hit UST and the mini-museum district.

Another major issue is how does the rail interact with the Galleria?

It has to be close enough to be effective and I think this eliminates both Westpark and Richmond

But, it also can't add to the traffic nightmare that is Westeimer & 610.

If i had any say.. this would be the proposal i'd put forth for study.

Run the length of Richmond, Turn North on Weslayn, Turn Left on West Alabama.

Have the "Highland Village" Stop at thie location.

At this point, it tunnels under West Alabama becoming a subway... bypassing under Afton Oaks ( Yes they'd still have to deal with construction ), bypassing under the railroad, bypassing under 610 ( avoiding both the Westeimer and Richmond intersections ), coming back to grade just West of Post Oak.

Have the "Galleria" stop here at McCue.

Continue West and rejoin Westeimer bypassing most Galleria traffic.

I like your thinking and your plan, except it should go down Westheimer, rather than Alabama. If you are going to put it in a tunnel (and I totally agree with that thought, it would not add to the traffic nightmare along Westheimer, and that would give it better access to Highland Village, the two new developments along Westheimer (Westcreek and whatever the other one is called, and also better access to the rest of Uptown, not just the Galleria.

The disruption of a tunnel construction depends on how it's done, of course. I doubt if it would be built with an open trench construction, but would probably be built by actually tunnelling under ground, with little surface disruption.