The Galleria Mall Developments

[eelimon]

What is going in that Lord & Taylor expansion at the Galleria, I heard new stores were coming in? Anyone know which ones?

it will be a Wal-Mart

[htownswami]

Along with a nice new CVS complete with vast parking lot

[RedScare]

and a dry cleaners.

[NewMND]

Well the Bloomingdales can't go into the Macy's space because it has to anchor the Galleria 5 I've created in my head. And speaking of movie theaters, sorta in the same area of town, a friend of a friend of a guy who knows someone who knows someone else told me they're building a movie theater at Memorial City Mall, is this true?

[htownswami]

Do we really need more movie theaters? We have so many mega 20 plus screen theaters all over town already. Isn't the 30 screen on Dunvale and the Edwards on Weslayan enough for that region? The only theaters that I think may be cool to have more of are Alamo Drafthouse or River Oaks style theaters offering a bit of variety both in ambiance and types of films.

[VicMan]

Most of the really large movie theaters are around or outside the beltway.

AMC could replace Meyer Park...

[DJ V Lawrence]

I'm hoping that the Borders will be accessible from the outside and will go far to alleviating the "bunker" look of the Galleria. A nice multi-story glass facade will give the Galleria a lot of curb appeal from Westheimer. I like the renovation of the inside, but I'm hoping that something can be done to the exterior. That intersection is extremely important.

I agree very much with this. I REALLY would like to see the Galleria remodel the exterior as well. Good point

Bloomingdales would be nice (wishful thinking here.) But if I had my way, I'd expand and attach the Dillards department store building to the mall across the street, and make, like a MAD retail, another department store area, and food court in the current parking lot area of Dillards.

That is, of course, after Lord & Taylor and Macys were filled to capacity.

[Pumapayam]

If I had my way, I'd expand and attach the Dillards department store building to the mall across the street.

I know that Neiman Marcus is not owned by Simon, the company that owns the mall. The mall just came out to NM's front door. The same goes for Dillards. A skywalk would be nice, but it is unlikely a common corridor would be built for something that is not really included in the Galleria mall, even though NM is included in the mall directory. NM was built before the Galleria was and the own the land it sits on, not Simon.

Edited November 23, 2005 by Pumapayam

[eelimon]

What is going in that Lord & Taylor expansion at the Galleria, I heard new stores were coming in? Anyone know which ones?

From Town&country Happenings thread earlier this year

The original Macy's Location is were Simon is looking to put the residential according the Houston Business Journal article. No plans exist for the surface parking areas. The Lord and Taylor location is to be small shops.

Simon will not be building new retail square footage with all the space they are going to get with the Lord and Taylor room.

I still say it should be a Target or a Wal-Mart.

Better yet an assortment of these small shops should go up there: Dollar General, Pawn Shop, Godfathers Bail Bond Office, Jungle Juice Liquor, Sperm Bank Anonymous, Pay-Less Shoes, and A 24 hour adult book store.

I had my way, I'd expand and attach the Dillards department store building to the mall across the street, and make, like a MAD retail, another department store area, and food court in the current parking lot area of Dillards.

That is, of course, after Lord & Taylor and Macys were filled to capacity.

If you can do this because Neiman Marcus does not want to and because it is not owned by Simon. Why not attach the Dillard to the Galleria by via under ground and this way a subway rail station could be attach to the mall under the street.

Edited November 23, 2005 by eelimon

[citykid09]

From Town&country Happenings thread earlier this year

I still say it should be a Target or a Wal-Mart.

Better yet an assortment of these small shops should go up there: Dollar General, Pawn Shop, Godfathers Bail Bond Office, Jungle Juice Liquor, Sperm Bank Anonymous, Pay-Less Shoes, and A 24 hour adult book store.

That sounds like the typical Houston shopping center.

[Pumapayam]

I still say it should be a Target or a Wal-Mart.

Better yet an assortment of these small shops should go up there: Dollar General, Pawn Shop, Godfathers Bail Bond Office, Jungle Juice Liquor, Sperm Bank Anonymous, Pay-Less Shoes, and A 24 hour adult book store.

I think it was a lame attempt to be funny. We need better comedians on here.

[YakuzaIce]

I think it was a lame attempt to be funny. We need better comedians on here.

Yeah,

I thought he was serious at first with the target/walmart

[HtownKid]

I'm hoping that the Borders will be accessible from the outside and will go far to alleviating the "bunker" look of the Galleria. A nice multi-story glass facade will give the Galleria a lot of curb appeal from Westheimer. I like the renovation of the inside, but I'm hoping that something can be done to the exterior. That intersection is extremely important.

Well its your luck there is lots an lots of glass when you go to that end an see the artistic rendering the whole damn wall facing westhimer is glass

[Furious Jam]

Do we really need more movie theaters? We have so many mega 20 plus screen theaters all over town already. Isn't the 30 screen on Dunvale and the Edwards on Weslayan enough for that region? The only theaters that I think may be cool to have more of are Alamo Drafthouse or River Oaks style theaters offering a bit of variety both in ambiance and types of films.

That AMC on Dunvale is always flooded with obnoxious teens - the Edwards on the Katy Frwy too. I'm not talking about just another theater. I'm talking about a premium experience where, for a few dollars more, you could have better food, seats, service, etc. Ex: a theater that blocks cell phone signals.

[Montrose1100]

Galleria expansion?

If it gets any bigger, we'll need some trolly or express flat "escalater" (like at the aiports).

[editor]

How about instead of wishing for more chain stores you can find in any other city to fill the vacant space, we root for some home-grown retail to fill it up and become a Houston export chain? Maybe Tootsie's would like a little extra room. I bet a lot of tourists who can't find Highland Village would be thrilled to shop there if it was in the Galleria.

[VicMan]

Is there a chance that Crate & Barrell will come back?

[dbigtex56]

I'm hoping that the Borders will be accessible from the outside and will go far to alleviating the "bunker" look of the Galleria. A nice multi-story glass facade will give the Galleria a lot of curb appeal from Westheimer. I like the renovation of the inside, but I'm hoping that something can be done to the exterior. That intersection is extremely important.

Can we say 'pedestrian friendly'?

I really don't get the Galleria. There's the Galleria itself, and the surrounding development around Post Oak - but do people circulate around the area? No. They drive to a destination, then leave.

It's horrible. Am I the only one who notices that crossing Westheimer or Post Oak on foot ranks as an Extreme Sport? Does anyone shop outside the Galleria itself without first getting in their cars and finding other parking spaces a few hundred yards away? To cross a street on foot...well! How bizarre. Get in your car, and hope there's another parking space there, a block away. Unless you're awfully brave....and I don't see very many brave people.

No. Bad as automotive traffic is already, I do hope it becomes worse. Maybe then people will insist on dedicated pedestrian crosswalks. People already walk quite a distance to their cars, and spend time finding parking spaces - couldn't the same time and effort be put to better use by making the whole area more pedestrian friendly? Wouldn't everyone benefit?

[RedScare]

Can we say 'pedestrian friendly'?

I really don't get the Galleria. There's the Galleria itself, and the surrounding development around Post Oak - but do people circulate around the area? No. They drive to a destination, then leave.

It's horrible. Am I the only one who notices that crossing Westheimer or Post Oak on foot ranks as an Extreme Sport? Does anyone shop outside the Galleria itself without first getting in their cars and finding other parking spaces a few hundred yards away? To cross a street on foot...well! How bizarre. Get in your car, and hope there's another parking space there, a block away. Unless you're awfully brave....and I don't see very many brave people.

No. Bad as automotive traffic is already, I do hope it becomes worse. Maybe then people will insist on dedicated pedestrian crosswalks. People already walk quite a distance to their cars, and spend time finding parking spaces - couldn't the same time and effort be put to better use by making the whole area more pedestrian friendly? Wouldn't everyone benefit?

Given the target market of the Galleria, I doubt pedestrian friendly access will become a priority soon. Generally, I find the "upscale" shopper to be the type who is both too busy and too important to walk. Walking is for poor people. Forget the argument about exercise. This shopper prefers valet parking at the fitness club. I have even seen escalators to the club!

It may seem strange, but not if you understand the upscale consumer mindset. This is a person who patterns his/her life around what is advertised to them as hip or trendy. Given that walking is free, you will find no ads for walking...unless it is on a treadmill.

Will light rail through the Galleria change things? Perhaps a bit for some of the younger shoppers. But, for most, it will not. This is also why I don't see the Galleria ever becoming "urban" in the pedestrian sense, even with the highrises nearby. They will merely drive down the street to the restaurant. While Downtown, even the bigshots occasionally walk, in Uptown, no one does. It is so...common!

[DJ V Lawrence]

Given the target market of the Galleria, I doubt pedestrian friendly access will become a priority soon. Generally, I find the "upscale" shopper to be the type who is both too busy and too important to walk. Walking is for poor people. Forget the argument about exercise. This shopper prefers valet parking at the fitness club. I have even seen escalators to the club!

It may seem strange, but not if you understand the upscale consumer mindset. This is a person who patterns his/her life around what is advertised to them as hip or trendy. Given that walking is free, you will find no ads for walking...unless it is on a treadmill.

Will light rail through the Galleria change things? Perhaps a bit for some of the younger shoppers. But, for most, it will not. This is also why I don't see the Galleria ever becoming "urban" in the pedestrian sense, even with the highrises nearby. They will merely drive down the street to the restaurant. While Downtown, even the bigshots occasionally walk, in Uptown, no one does. It is so...common!

RedScare is 100% right, but I'm curious as to what the mindset is of the stores across the street from the Galleria. Who exactly is their target, and how can those businesses survive long term, if things don't change (pedestrian friendly)?

[Tejo]

Way off topic- but two things I think would be cool. First, The Dillards store should be converted into a concert hall/theater of some sort. Though I had hope that the land at Yorktown/Westheimer would have been perfect for a concert hall/theater. Not necessarily the AD Players. In conjunction to converting Dillards, it's front parking lot could be a plaza/square. Of course- the gas station and exotic boutique would have to go and a decorative "sound barrier" erected.

And secondly, The front parking lot-Westheimer/Post Oak- of the Galleria also should be turned into a plaza/square.

[YakuzaIce]

Way off topic- but two things I think would be cool. First, The Dillards store should be converted into a concert hall/theater of some sort. Though I had hope that the land at Yorktown/Westheimer would have been perfect for a concert hall/theater. Not necessarily the AD Players. In conjunction to converting Dillards, it's front parking lot could be a plaza/square. Of course- the gas station and exotic boutique would have to go and a decorative "sound barrier" erected.

And secondly, The front parking lot-Westheimer/Post Oak- of the Galleria also should be turned into a plaza/square.

How do you plan on kicking Dillards out of their building? Does anyone know if that would be structurally feasible? Since you would be knocking out all of the floors. Interesting idea though.

[editor]

I know it's convenient to make this a rich-vs-poor thing because it fits neatly into your view of society, but I don't think it is. I think it's an urban planning issue.

The same people who drive from Saks across the street to Barnes and Noble are the same people who don't mind spending four or five hours walking from store to store along the streets of Paris, London, or even Chicago.

As another person noted, crossing Westheimer is an extreme sport. Why would these people risk their lives walking across the street when they can traverse the same distance in more comfort and safety in their cars? Yes, it's slower, but for many people the benefits of safety outweigh the inconvenience. The distance from Saks to Barnes and Noble (for example) is less than the distance from Saks to the other end of the mall. So why don't they drive there? Because there's stuff to look at, it's a controlled environment, and it's safe. If the next Galleria expansion was to place a block of elevated retail across Westheimer, you'd cut down on traffic, increase sales, and eliminate the whole "walking is for poor people" argument. Remember, these are people who very often walk/jog/run as part of their regular schedule. In cities like Paris, Vienna, and New York it's done in the course of the day's errands. In cities like Houston it's done in a gym, because going outside is unappetizing.

[midtown 4.2]

If walking is for poor people, and people walk on Rodeo Drive and Fifth Avenue, then I WANT to be poor just like them.

[RedScare]

Why would these people risk their lives walking across the street when they can traverse the same distance in more comfort and safety in their cars?

Remember, these are people who very often walk/jog/run as part of their regular schedule.

In cities like Houston it's done in a gym, because going outside is unappetizing.

After discounting my argument with your first sentence, you proceeded to agree with me. My whole point was that the target Galleria shopper, that shopper with a lot of disposable income, is wholly uninterested in the outdoor walking experience. For that reason, the Galleria has not gone to any great length to make the Galleria pedestrian friendly.

The fact that I am a bit more blunt in my assessment of the situation does not change the fact that we both said the same thing.

To compare Houstonians with Londoners, Parisians, Chicagoans, New Yorkers and Vienans(?) is comical, to say the least. In all of those cities, dense housing and extensive public transportation infrastructure, combined with retail establishments that are within walking distance of housing and transportation, permit, and even encourage pedestrian activity. Houston, with well over 80% of its population growth coming after World War II, was designed and built to be travelled by auto. Even if these shoppers wished to walk, which they don't, they would face obstacles to do so.

[Subdude]

Way off topic- but two things I think would be cool. First, The Dillards store should be converted into a concert hall/theater of some sort. Though I had hope that the land at Yorktown/Westheimer would have been perfect for a concert hall/theater. Not necessarily the AD Players. In conjunction to converting Dillards, it's front parking lot could be a plaza/square. Of course- the gas station and exotic boutique would have to go and a decorative "sound barrier" erected.

And secondly, The front parking lot-Westheimer/Post Oak- of the Galleria also should be turned into a plaza/square.

Interesting ideas, but I think parking is in too short supply around the area to give up spaces for a plaza. I wouldn't be surprised if the Macy's location ends up converted into a parking garage.

[YakuzaIce]

Interesting ideas, but I think parking is in too short supply around the area to give up spaces for a plaza. I wouldn't be surprised if the Macy's location ends up converted into a parking garage.

There isn't much parking in front of Dillard's. Most is in the garage to the south and the surface lot to the north.

[NewMND]

WIth the talk of a Galleria expansion, where would they build? I'm no visionary, so there may be a way around it, but it seems the Galleria is getting pretty landlocked nowadays.

[YakuzaIce]

WIth the talk of a Galleria expansion, where would they build? I'm no visionary, so there may be a way around it, but it seems the Galleria is getting pretty landlocked nowadays.

Well there is a lot next to the waterwall. And there is the chance that church may sell (though I doubt it)

Then there is the parking lot north of galleria 1. Plus the parking North of Dillards. Perhaps a deal could be made where a larger parking garage is built for Dillards and they sell the rest of their parking. Then there are always the few strip malls near it.

Or they could just tear down the transco and expand to the east

[Pumapayam]

Or they could just tear down the transco and expand to the east

How is that even funny?

Anyways, the lot next to the waterwall should be turned into a Whole Foods grovery store so that the tenants of the hotels and the near by condos can walk to a grocery store.

It would really make work,live, and play feasible for a pedistrian lifestyles.

[Subdude]

I don't expect to see any expansion of the Galleria for a long time. Their main issue now is using the space freed up by departing anchor stores. The Galleria is already so large that it borders on the inconvenient to get around, plus malls in general are losing business to big box retailers.

[eelimon]

So it makes sense to Bulldoze Kinda like in SimCity, and do away with all the Galleria. Forget about the expansion. Forget about everything and start over with a big BOX with luxury shops in the same strip mall

[Gary]

After discounting my argument with your first sentence, you proceeded to agree with me. My whole point was that the target Galleria shopper, that shopper with a lot of disposable income, is wholly uninterested in the outdoor walking experience. For that reason, the Galleria has not gone to any great length to make the Galleria pedestrian friendly.

The fact that I am a bit more blunt in my assessment of the situation does not change the fact that we both said the same thing.

To compare Houstonians with Londoners, Parisians, Chicagoans, New Yorkers and Vienans(?) is comical, to say the least. In all of those cities, dense housing and extensive public transportation infrastructure, combined with retail establishments that are within walking distance of housing and transportation, permit, and even encourage pedestrian activity. Houston, with well over 80% of its population growth coming after World War II, was designed and built to be travelled by auto. Even if these shoppers wished to walk, which they don't, they would face obstacles to do so.

This is a great point. Houston was largely built after WWII which constitutes an auto friendly city. I'm sure most here know about Ike's highway system across the country during this time, which obviously had a huge impact on how the newer cities were designed.

Also, I grow weary of constantly hearing about how other cities build there infrastructure. Could Houston have done a better job? Of course. Could we take some lessons on how to plan in the future? Obviously. That being said, the Houston area's issues with non restricted growth is what makes this city unique. As far as becoming more Urban, were getting there. That being said, let's not try to change the things that made this city what it is. That's not to say we can't continue in learning from others, however I'll bet there are alot of cities who wish they had what Houston has, a bright future.

Edited November 28, 2005 by Gary

[Houstonian in Iraq]

Interesting ideas, but I think parking is in too short supply around the area to give up spaces for a plaza. I wouldn't be surprised if the Macy's location ends up converted into a parking garage.

Why not an underground garage with the plaza on street level like

Jones plaza

[DJ V Lawrence]

This is a great point. Houston was largely built after WWII which constitutes an auto friendly city. I'm sure most here know about Ike's highway system across the country during this time, which obviously had a huge impact on how the newer cities were designed.

Also, I grow weary of constantly hearing about how other cities build there infrastructure. Could Houston have done a better job? Of course. Could we take some lessons on how to plan in the future? Obviously. That being said, the Houston area's issues with non restricted growth is what makes this city unique. As far as becoming more Urban, were getting there. That being said, let's not try to change the things that made this city what it is. That's not to say we can't continue in learning from others, however I'll bet there are alot of cities who wish they had what Houston has, a bright future.

I am kinda tired of the "Houston has to become urban to become a city" arguement as well.

That being said, I think if anyplace in Houston outside of Downtown needs to make a pedestrian environment the bigger priority than any other, it'd be the Galleria-area. Uptown is such a great place, but I can see it profiting much higher once people feel comfortable about walking from one store inside the Galleria to a shop outside the Galleria. I think both businesses would profit much more.

I agree with da Houstonian in Iraq as well. I think underground parking-only in the Galleria area would be badass, and a huge plus to the retail scene. Question is which business would be willing to invest in that, or where would funding for that come from. But he's right.

[Gary]

I would agree we should make Uptown more pedestrian friendly and I think there will eventually be a movement toward that. With the new pavillions going up on Post Oak and the addition of the new Randal Davis condos, it should bring this issue more to the forefront.

Once again, I'm tired of hearing how we need to become someone else, this is Houston, not New York.

[Subdude]

I just don't see the Galleria area ever becoming a pedestrian or urban environment. The area is too large and dominated by large roads for that. And I'm not saying that it should be pedestrian friendly - it's basically a mall and strip-center oriented neighborhood, and that would be hard to change at this point.

Concerns about "being Houston" or "being New York" seem a little off-base. I think the appropriateness of a pedestrian-friendly or urban environment is very location specific, not city-specific. Does it make sense for the Galleria area? Probably not. Does it make sense for downtown? Yes, probably so. That kind of environment is dependent on density and scale. That is what makes me dubious that plazas or a pedestrian environment could ever really be meaningfully successful around the Galleria. I just think that redevelopment efforts should make sense in the context of their neighborhood, not to think that one framework makes sense everywhere.

[Gary]

I just don't see the Galleria area ever becoming a pedestrian or urban environment. The area is too large and dominated by large roads for that. And I'm not saying that it should be pedestrian friendly - it's basically a mall and strip-center oriented neighborhood, and that would be hard to change at this point.

Concerns about "being Houston" or "being New York" seem a little off-base. I think the appropriateness of a pedestrian-friendly or urban environment is very location specific, not city-specific. Does it make sense for the Galleria area? Probably not. Does it make sense for downtown? Yes, probably so. That kind of environment is dependent on density and scale. That is what makes me dubious that plazas or a pedestrian environment could ever really be meaningfully successful around the Galleria. I just think that redevelopment efforts should make sense in the context of their neighborhood, not to think that one framework makes sense everywhere.

While I agree that it will never be walkable like DT, I do think that eventually it will move toward a more pedestrian friendly environment.

As far as the area being to large I would dissagree. The area from the Galleria to where the Uptown Pavillions will go is only a few blocks. Why couldn't we build (as was mentioned earlier) a sky walk across Wetheimer to connect the areas?

[Subdude]

They could build a skywalk, and it is just a few blocks, but it is just my perception that it will always be an auto-oriented area. There's nothing wrong with that. Post Oak and Westheimer both seem too wide and crowded to be conducive to heavy pedestrian traffic. Again, it's an issue of scale. A pedestrian environment works fine in Rice Village where the roads are relatively narrow and stores are close to the street.

[Houston19514]

While I agree that it will never be walkable like DT, I do think that eventually it will move toward a more pedestrian friendly environment.

As far as the area being to large I would dissagree. The area from the Galleria to where the Uptown Pavillions will go is only a few blocks. Why couldn't we build (as was mentioned earlier) a sky walk across Wetheimer to connect the areas?

Uptown has been moving toward a more pedestrian friendly environment for some years now. The street arches and landscaped sidewalks and crosswalks were huge improvements. The next step is probably pedestrian-friendly development of the commercial properties. That, of course will take a lot of time, but the Uptown Pavilions (or whatever it's official name is) is hopefully the first of many steps to come.

[Gary]

They could build a skywalk, and it is just a few blocks, but it is just my perception that it will always be an auto-oriented area. There's nothing wrong with that. Post Oak and Westheimer both seem too wide and crowded to be conducive to heavy pedestrian traffic. Again, it's an issue of scale. A pedestrian environment works fine in Rice Village where the roads are relatively narrow and stores are close to the street.

Yeah I don't think it will ever move away from being auto oriented, but I do think that a more pedetrian friendly area is emminent.

[sevfiv]

but I do think that a more pedetrian friendly area is emminent.

i am not sure if many have faith for anything to do with imminence in houston, and others are starting to feel that way about its eminence

Edited November 29, 2005 by sevfiv

[Gary]

i am not sure if many have faith for anything to do with imminence in houston, and others are starting to feel that way about its eminence

Huh?

[sevfiv]

Huh?

exactly - sorry, logophile here

and, i was commenting on the imminence versus eminence (subtle difference ) of projects in houston

Edited November 29, 2005 by sevfiv

[Gary]

exactly - sorry, logophile here

and, i was commenting on the imminence versus eminence (subtle difference ) of projects in houston

Ahhh, sorry about that, you are correct. Should have paid more attention in english.

[sevfiv]

seriously, though...it would be great to not only have better walkable areas in the galleria area, but also ones that will actually be used...

somehow, i only see usability for alot of the clientele taking the shape of an air-conditioned chute from car to storefront...heh

Edited November 29, 2005 by sevfiv

[new major on the block]

Maybe if more people drove scooters and motorcycles to work, then it might help that transition to a more pedestrian friendly area. Currently everyone jumps in their MUV's(monster utility vehicle) wastes gas to go down the block, while on their cellphone, not paying attention to what is around them, not looking when they change lanes, fiddling with their lipstick, makeup, tie, shaving, kids and many more. Not even remotly pedestrian friendly to me. Especially when you blow your horn at them after they cut you off, the old hand guester is given to you, and when you wind up passing them they sometimes do worse almost causing accidents.

Good luck if it ever gets pedestrian friendly

[sevfiv]

it's always funny when jackasses make more of an ass of themselves after the first time around...

anyhow, about scooters - less the occasional rainshower, i hear from several acquaintances that they are fun and extremely efficient.

the problwm is, with the "MUVs" and horrid drivers on the road, i would be terrified to drive alongside them...

Edited December 2, 2005 by sevfiv

[NewMND]

I was at the Galleria and noticed they're putting a "The Oceannaire" restaurant in the Lord & Taylor space. I've been to one in California, it's pretty good, but kinda expensive from what I remember.

Oh, and the empty land next to Lakewood has been cleared and all that, what are they building there, I didn't see any signs. Is it maybe a church expansion?

[TxDave]

There is also an Oceanaire in the Westin at Galleria Dallas - nice seafood restaurant.

Does anyone know what else is going into the former Lord & Taylor space?

I think the opportunities there are pretty exciting since the location is directly on Westheimer.

Also, any word on the current Macy's space and Galleria III?