Webster St. At Brazos St.

[musicman]

This bank is a LAZY development. They assume that even in a neighborhood like Midtown, EVERYONE wants to drive. That is NOT the case. I wonder too if this bank branch will have hours in which the lobby is closed but the drive thru lanes are open? That's a fairly common practice in Houston and it certainly doesn't make things convenient for people who either don't own a car or don't choose to use one when they don't have to! So, get off of your "convenient to all" stance because in a neighborhood like Midtown, that simply isn't true.

This is a very extreme side to take. There has to be parking to accomodate customers. Remember the bank is serving more than live in midtown. The Bagby/Smith/Milam corridor is the entrance to 59south. There is much traffic that uses the area that needs a reason to park. If Specs didn't have the parking lot, do you think midtown alone would support it and they would be as successful as they are? I doubt it. While the bank isn't as large, it will still require ATM machines accessible by car. Now the design could be changed to minimize the poor aesthetics (perhaps a parking in back with front and rear entrances.) We won't get to that stage unless the developer of each property fights for it. They are basically catering to their customer base.

[Guest danax]

I think the whole urban chic pedestrian environment, which I would love to see more of too, is a chicken and egg situation, unless a city steps in a forces it. Houston has so few walkers, either of the pedestrian bourgeois (yuppies) or pedestrian proletariat (poor) that few businesses are interested in catering to a nebulous group.

Eventually in Midtown, a more pedestrian-friendly scene will unfold I believe, based on copy-catting what has worked for others. Like any trend, there will always be pioneers risking to get things rolling, like Post on Gray. The masses are always followers and, with so few pioneering pedestrianesque projects so far, it's obvious Midtown is still in pedestrian preschool. Of course, once the snowball effect really kicks in, the "old school" suburban designs like the banks and baby boxstores will have filled most of the prime retail spots. At some point, the dots will start to connect and Midtown could become a place as described by KincaidAlum.

Most of us will need walkers by the time that happens though.

[midtownguy]

People work very hard for the sake of laziness. This is what has driven technological progression through the millenia, and it is what gives rise to bank branches that are convenient to all instead of to only the walking few.

Btw, if you are for some reason disuaded from walking to a business because it has a customer base that is mostly on wheels...well that's just pathetic. Get over it.

Your arguments are stunningly bad and, well, lazy. So much so I'm not going to bother to answer, because you clearly have no desire for a rational debate on this subject.

But I'll say this: I don't know where you live, but I live in Post. I live in the heart of Midtown, and I walk a lot. So do most of my neighbors and the people who live in this complex. We like walking. This bank is a disaster times 10.

Disuaded?

Where do you come up with this stuff?

I walk to work everday. I walk to the gym 5 times a week. I walk to my bank branch (there is no drive-thru) weekly. I walk to the dry cleaners and convenience stores. I walk to get my haircut down the block. I walk to the movie theater. I walk to Fenway Park to catch a game. I walk to the Pru/Copley Malls. I walk to eat out with friends and when I catch a play in the Theater District.

That said, walking in Houston is a helluva lot less pleasant and it has NOTHING to do with the weather. Sidewalks mysteriously vanish in places. Construction blocks off walkways. Vehicles almost never yield to pedestrians when they are supposed to. Also, instead of walking by contiguous blocks of stores, homes, restaurants, and parks, you are likely to have to walk across parking lots, drive thru fast food joints, motor banks, multi-laned CVS drive-thrus, and a host of other places that make walking unenjoyable!

This bank is a LAZY development. They assume that even in a neighborhood like Midtown, EVERYONE wants to drive. That is NOT the case. I wonder too if this bank branch will have hours in which the lobby is closed but the drive thru lanes are open? That's a fairly common practice in Houston and it certainly doesn't make things convenient for people who either don't own a car or don't choose to use one when they don't have to! So, get off of your "convenient to all" stance because in a neighborhood like Midtown, that simply isn't true.

I agree 100 percent! Amen! Thanks for this. I live in the heart of midtown, and agree totally.

[musicman]

Your arguments are stunningly bad and, well, lazy. So much so I'm not going to bother to answer, because you clearly have no desire for a rational debate on this subject.

But I'll say this: I don't know where you live, but I live in Post. I live in the heart of Midtown, and I walk a lot. So do most of my neighbors and the people who live in this complex. We like walking. This bank is a disaster times 10.

I agree 100 percent! Amen! Thanks for this. I live in the heart of midtown, and agree totally.

sounds like maybe you should organize all the post residents and boycott all businesses with a parking lot.

[KinkaidAlum]

Musicman,

The complaints aren't about parking lots. Those are a necessary evil. However, it would be nice if they put the parking in the back of new Midtown developments to improve the streetscape. Also, drive-thrus suck, especially multi-lane. Do they really save that much time? Most likely not since very few people actually take the time to go inside anymore. There are lines of cars at drive thrus but hardly ever lines inside! Drive thrus encourage people to be lazy, anti-social (would it kill us to have face-to-face interaction and know the people we come in contact with?), and also contribute to pollution with the amount of people who idle with their car running.

[TheNiche]

Your arguments are stunningly bad and, well, lazy. So much so I'm not going to bother to answer, because you clearly have no desire for a rational debate on this subject.

But I'll say this: I don't know where you live, but I live in Post. I live in the heart of Midtown, and I walk a lot. So do most of my neighbors and the people who live in this complex. We like walking. This bank is a disaster times 10.

I could easily say the same for yours. Only I explain my point instead of walking away. If you disagree with me, I'd greatly appreciate the opportunity to address the 'why'. But if I don't know or can only guess at the 'why', then I can't really do much, and so the opportunity for a rational debate is negated...by you, the accusor.

Heart of Midtown? You're on the northwest side. The bank is a "disaster times 10"? How is that? If Rita had blown through, it would've had only 1 tenth the negative impact that this bank has? ...or is this another attempt at avoiding discussion through the application of hollow rhetoric? And then you claim to speak for all of your neighbors, just as AftonAg did...and we all know just how on-top-of-things he was. Are you a politician?

[TheNiche]

Also, drive-thrus suck, especially multi-lane. Do they really save that much time? Most likely not since very few people actually take the time to go inside anymore. There are lines of cars at drive thrus but hardly ever lines inside! Drive thrus encourage people to be lazy, anti-social (would it kill us to have face-to-face interaction and know the people we come in contact with?), and also contribute to pollution with the amount of people who idle with their car running.

Perhaps it is not so much a matter of encouraging people to be lazy as it is indugling people in their innate behaviors. I think that if customers are given the option between drive-thru banking and walk-in banking, as is the case in most instances, the fact that so few people walk in should be a very good indicator of consumer preference. Right? Barring coercion, of course...and nobody puts a gun to my head.

[KinkaidAlum]

So, everything in this world should be dictated by consumer preference or market factors?

Sweet. The world will be such a magical place once we give in to corporate whimsy.

[feufoma]

So, everything in this world should be dictated by consumer preference or market factors?

Sweet. The world will be such a magical place once we give in to corporate whimsy.

I believe that sums up The Niche's take on things. (He probably doesn't live in Houston though.) Face it, that type of attitude by developers, marketers and the politicians in their back pockets is one of the reasons that Houston has so far to go. I agree that the bank development is another pathetic example of poor planning. It's sickening to see this happening to an area that once had potential. Face it folks, the chance for midtown to shine is over. The suburban mentality has won again! Pathetic, truly pathetic...

[musicman]

Musicman,

The complaints aren't about parking lots. Those are a necessary evil. However, it would be nice if they put the parking in the back of new Midtown developments to improve the streetscape. Also, drive-thrus suck, especially multi-lane. Do they really save that much time? Most likely not since very few people actually take the time to go inside anymore. There are lines of cars at drive thrus but hardly ever lines inside! Drive thrus encourage people to be lazy, anti-social (would it kill us to have face-to-face interaction and know the people we come in contact with?), and also contribute to pollution with the amount of people who idle with their car running.

drive thrus suck is your opinion. I just don't see them disappearing esp in the area because 3 streets feed a freeway entrance. There will always be a requirement for cars midtown.

So, everything in this world should be dictated by consumer preference or market factors?

Sweet. The world will be such a magical place once we give in to corporate whimsy.

If you live in midtown, you have succumbed to corporate whimsy.

[TheNiche]

So, everything in this world should be dictated by consumer preference or market factors?

Sweet. The world will be such a magical place once we give in to corporate whimsy.

Despite the simplicity of it all, you still don't get it.

People are not sheep. They think for themselves, have their own opinions, and exert their own resources toward those ends. Those businesses that are not effective at reacting to consumers' wants will go away.

[TheNiche]

I believe that sums up The Niche's take on things. (He probably doesn't live in Houston though.) Face it, that type of attitude by developers, marketers and the politicians in their back pockets is one of the reasons that Houston has so far to go.

Oh, I live in Houston. Not only do I live here, I own properties here. And even though only a relatively small part of Houston is in any way 'urban', guess where my investments are...

If you want to talk about politicians being in developers' and marketers' back pockets, then look at just about any other major city in the U.S. They all have zoning; politicians thus have power to say yes or no. When politicians have more power as opposed to less, what do you expect is going to happen to the dollar amount of corruption in that municipality?

In contrast, what happens when politicians have very little power to say yes or no to a given development? Does a Houston developer have a great deal of incentive to undergo the risk of getting tied up in a bribery lawsuit when the politician that would be bribed has very little power in the first place? Of course not!

Strong Government = Corruption.

There is very simply no need to bribe a less powerful government.

[KinkaidAlum]

You should tell that to Perry Homes. Their multi million dollar donations mainly to Republican candidates in Texas were simply a waste according to your over-simplified logic.

As for people having our own opinions and exerting our own resources... sure we do.

We can choose between CVS 0r Walgreens.

We can choose between Bank of America or WaMu.

We can choose between Republicans or Democrats.

We can choose between Reliant or TXU.

We can choose between Direct TV or Dish Network.

We can choose between SBC or Verizon.

We can choose between the Chronicle or well, we can't really choose...

[TheNiche]

You should tell that to Perry Homes. Their multi million dollar donations mainly to Republican candidates in Texas were simply a waste according to your over-simplified logic.

As for people having our own opinions and exerting our own resources... sure we do.

We can choose between CVS 0r Walgreens.

We can choose between Bank of America or WaMu.

We can choose between Republicans or Democrats.

We can choose between Reliant or TXU.

We can choose between Direct TV or Dish Network.

We can choose between SBC or Verizon.

We can choose between the Chronicle or well, we can't really choose...

If you think that's all the choices that you have, then you need to get out more. All it takes is a realtively small niche of informed consumers.

As for political donations, you should consider this: the maintenance of freedom is costly, but the lack thereof is even more so. Why would Perry Homes and other developers make contributions if not to ultimately save money? Do you realize how convoluted "contributions" would get if there were a larger more complicated bureaucracy? They do.

That's why they want to avoid it; they know that such a bureaucracy will increase the costs of development for most every firm throughout the homebuilding industry. I know that you could care less about that. But here's the rub--in competitive environments, those costs are passed on to the consumer. If the costs of a set of goods go up uniformly, then fewer consumers will be able to afford those goods, so the quantity demanded from the housing market falls. Hence, both the producer and consumer are hurt.

[houston-development]

well since this thread has gone completely off topic, im gonna add my $0.02

when i first moved back to midtown, i enjoyed walking to the store, starbucks, bank, restaurants, etc. however, after being greeted by numerous :insert pc term:, i decided that enough was enough. while it would actually be easier to walk two blocks down, i get into my car and drive to my destination.

regardless of what is built and how pedestrian friendly the establishment is, people will get sick and tired of being begged for spare change.

/rant

[sanman]

well since this thread has gone completely off topic, im gonna add my $0.02

when i first moved back to midtown, i enjoyed walking to the store, starbucks, bank, restaurants, etc. however, after being greeted by numerous :insert pc term:, i decided that enough was enough. while it would actually be easier to walk two blocks down, i get into my car and drive to my destination.

regardless of what is built and how pedestrian friendly the establishment is, people will get sick and tired of being begged for spare change.

/rant

take an 80 pound dog with you...works for me.

[MiDTOWNeR]

when i first moved back to midtown, i enjoyed walking to the store, starbucks,regardless of what is built and how pedestrian friendly the establishment is, people will get sick and tired of being begged for spare change.

/rant

Thats interesting. Midtown had that spare change beggar element long before Starbucks opened.

[Drewdog]

Gotta love no zoning.......

I hope midtown can turn it around, because at the pace we are going, Super Wal-Mart is going to start breaking ground soon. When that happens..... IM SELLING!

[TheNiche]

Gotta love no zoning.......

I hope midtown can turn it around, because at the pace we are going, Super Wal-Mart is going to start breaking ground soon. When that happens..... IM SELLING!

You have nothing to fear. Midtown lacks sufficient amounts of contiguous land with which to support a Wal-Mart Supercenter. Even if there was enough contiguous land, Wal-Mart would never pay that high of a price for it. They aren't the highest and best use; you and other Midtown/Montrose residents aren't their customer base; they know it.

The only place inside the loop that you might expect Wal-Mart to attempt to build a new store would be in the greater 5th Ward area. And even then, I'd consider it unlikely.

[MiDTOWNeR]

you and other Midtown/Montrose residents aren't their customer base; they know it.

Wal mart is starting to change up their stores a bit to appeal/take better advantage of different customer bases. What the Midtown/Montrose resident is willing to pay for paper towlels may be different than a resident in the 5th ward.So perhaps we could see a big vibrant multi level Wal Mart on a small piece of land in Midtown.

[musicman]

Wal mart is starting to change up their stores a bit to appeal/take better advantage of different customer bases. What the Midtown/Montrose resident is willing to pay for paper towlels may be different than a resident in the 5th ward.So perhaps we could see a big vibrant multi level Wal Mart on a small piece of land in Midtown.

I seriously doubt it. Walmart does NOT invest where land is expensive because they know they can be successful anywhere.

[The Great Hizzy!]

In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised to see Wal*Mart start trying out some new concepts similar to what Midtowner is talking about. Probably far-fetched for Midtown in the near future but not necessarily in other areas.... something smaller with more limited items of an allegedly greater/expensive quality.

[houston-development]

walmart does have a new concept store, which i believe is called "the market". high end wines, organic food, and gourmet like goods. the one i saw was in bentonville: free-standing, about 10-15k sq ft in size, very up-scale, and in all honesty, i couldnt believe it was a walmart.

seriously.

[ToolMan]

In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised to see Wal*Mart start trying out some new concepts similar to what Midtowner is talking about. Probably far-fetched for Midtown in the near future but not necessarily in other areas.... something smaller with more limited items of an allegedly greater/expensive quality.

I call this place TARGET.

[EastMidtowner]

I wonder how Capital One is doing....I never see people in the drive through. I hope Midtowners are boycotting that place. I still can't believe they took practically a whole block for a bank.

[midtownguy]

I wonder how Capital One is doing....I never see people in the drive through. I hope Midtowners are boycotting that place. I still can't believe they took practically a whole block for a bank.

My apt faces Crapital One. I can see it 24/7. I rarely see people there, either driving up or walking in. In fact, when I DO see people driving up, I'm actually shocked and do a double take.

They're tanking.

Mid town did not need another bank. And not such a large bank on a prime piece of land. Don't get me wrong, it's better than what was there before - an ugly, abandoned lot. But, we don't need another bank.

I get mail from Crap One DAILY asking for my business. "We're in the neighborhood, join our bank!"

What they fail to undersand is, most people don't switch banks often, and aren't going to switch banks JUST because one is across the street. I've used Bank of America for six years, and I'm happy with them. No way would I ever switch to an inferior company just because of location.