Panhandling

[The New Juniper]

I hate to get off on a rant here, but isn't standing on the corner and begging for money against the law?

Seriously, nothing takes away from the City's image more than a transient on every corner beggin for money. Let's please set aside the emotional angle associated with the individual plight of each of these persons. There is no doubt some reason why each has ended up at this stage in their lives, but that has absolutely no place in the discussion.

Either panhandling is against the law or it isn't. If it is, why is it not enforced?

Beyond the legality for a moment, it is a traffic hazard when these folks are walking up and down the lanes of busy traffic showing no concern for their safety or anyone else's. For that matter, it is unsettling when the guys approach your car and wash your windshield, only to look to you for some sort of "payment" for services. If you wave them off, you get the feeling you have personally insulted them. If they still wash and you don't pay, they often seem as though they are going to attempt to demand payment by force. The whole thing is just unseemly and unsettling.

Lastly, and while I am still up on my soapbox, what kind of lesson does it teach our young kids to encourage them to beg for money under the guise of funding a trip of some sort. Barely a weekend passes that there is not some church organization, middle school, high school, etc. with a team of kids on the corners of the busiest streets "asking" for money to help fund some sort of state championship, band trip, etc.

Talk about unsafe? Who lets their kids stand in traffic? What lesson does this teach? "The sky is the limit. You can do anything you set your mind to. Work hard to achieve success" Only, when you run short of funds, go beg on the streets.

I understand and am familiar with the counter argument. However, i will never be convinced that begging for money is acceptable.

These folks need to be removed.

[RedScare]

I understand and am familiar with the counter argument. However, i will never be convinced that begging for money is acceptable.

These folks need to be removed.

Exactly. That is why I never give money to the Red Cross, or the Cancer Society, or any of those other beggers. I also do not give money to political campaigns. It is just not acceptable. And worse, they set a bad example for street people that begging is acceptable.

[The New Juniper]

Exactly. That is why I never give money to the Red Cross, or the Cancer Society, or any of those other beggers. I also do not give money to political campaigns. It is just not acceptable. And worse, they set a bad example for street people that begging is acceptable.

Redscare:

You have hit the nail right on the head. The exact point of my previous post was to draw a direct analogy between the Red Cross that raises money for those struck with tragedy and the guy smoking a cigarette and pushing a cup in my window while my 4 year old daughter is with me.

It is emotional responses such as yours that make a sensible discussion impossible.

[RedScare]

Redscare:

You have hit the nail right on the head. The exact point of my previous post was to draw a direct analogy between the Red Cross that raises money for those struck with tragedy and the guy smoking a cigarette and pushing a cup in my window while my 4 year old daughter is with me.

It is emotional responses such as yours that make a sensible discussion impossible.

Actually, Juniper, your entire post is emotional, while demanding that no response be emotional.

Frankly, I am not the least bit emotional on this issue. I office on Main, and I smoke. This guarantees that I come into contact with more panhandlers than most everyone else. On good days, I give them a quarter or a smoke. On bad days, I don't. End of story. I don't spend any time whatsoever trying to decide what they do with the quarter, however, I light the smoke, so I know what they do with that.

The point here, is that what you find unseemly and unsettling, I find to be just be life. I am not sorry you find it so. I think that is just one aspect of life you must learn to deal with.

As for your statement that these people should be removed, I ask that you point me to the part of the US Constitution that guarantees your right not to be begged at the expense of others being "removed"?

[The New Juniper]

Actually, Juniper, your entire post is emotional, while demanding that no response be emotional.

Frankly, I am not the least bit emotional on this issue. I office on Main, and I smoke. This guarantees that I come into contact with more panhandlers than most everyone else. On good days, I give them a quarter or a smoke. On bad days, I don't. End of story. I don't spend any time whatsoever trying to decide what they do with the quarter, however, I light the smoke, so I know what they do with that.

The point here, is that what you find unseemly and unsettling, I find to be just be life. I am not sorry you find it so. I think that is just one aspect of life you must learn to deal with.

As for your statement that these people should be removed, I ask that you point me to the part of the US Constitution that guarantees your right not to be begged at the expense of others being "removed"?

I actually appreciate your response.

It is not a question of what i find unseemly. The question i have is, is there not a law against it?

I believe what they are doing is against the law. If it is, they should be dealt with just as anyone else breaking the law. If not, i will just get over it. My guess is panhandling is not addressed in the Constitution. However, my guess is that local jurisdictions have addressed it.

TNJ

[MidtownCoog]

I think HPD's #1 priority should be arresting panhandlers!

NOT

[The New Juniper]

So do we just selectively enforce the law?

[ricco67]

The only time it annoys me is when they're on a stree that has no median, so that means they literally stand in traffic.

I think THAT is the time police need to step in, otherwise just point them out to Jr. and say "This is your future if you don't eat broccoli."

[Jeebus]

As for your statement that these people should be removed, I ask that you point me to the part of the US Constitution that guarantees your right not to be begged at the expense of others being "removed"?

Constitution? Please. How about the city ordinances in place that are not enforced? I guess all those signs warning that soliciting is not allowed are just for show?

While HPD is at it, might as well check their legal status too. I don't care if you're illegal, but don't be a bum about it.

[The New Juniper]

The only time it annoys me is when they're on a stree that has no median, so that means they literally stand in traffic.

I think THAT is the time police need to step in, otherwise just point them out to Jr. and say "This is your future if you don't eat broccoli."

I agree. And this goes back to my earlier point. What does this say about us as a society? If we enforce the local laws and ordinances and prohibit panhandling, does it automatically make us heartless? Have we not provided shelters and support organizations for the homeless?

Is this how we clear our collective conscious while also appealing to voters? Passing laws prohibiting something while we have no intention of enforcing?

[ricco67]

I agree. And this goes back to my earlier point. What does this say about us as a society? If we enforce the local laws and ordinances and prohibit panhandling, does it automatically make us heartless? Have we not provided shelters and support organizations for the homeless?

Is this how we clear our collective conscious while also appealing to voters? Passing laws prohibiting something while we have no intention of enforcing?

It's like the jaywalking law, unless an officer has a REALLY slow day, it's not really worth his while. The paperwork (which could take a couple of hours) for such an item is not really worth the effort.

[The New Juniper]

It's like the jaywalking law, unless an officer has a REALLY slow day, it's not really worth his while. The paperwork (which could take a couple of hours) for such an item is not really worth the effort.

OK. That makes sense. However, it still irks me.

Seems strange to me that so many people openly flaunt this activity which is not allowed by law.

However, like i said, i will get over it.

TNJ

[MidtownCoog]

Do you really think "Mr. Chicken Man" is aware of laws against panhandling?

[The New Juniper]

Do you really think "Mr. Chicken Man" is aware of laws against panhandling?

Is ignorance of the law ever a defense?

[ricco67]

Doubtful, although my favorite panhandler of all time WASN'T a panhandler.

He was simply known as "island man" in the montrose. I was never aware of his asking for money, but people went up to him and offered him food and bit of cash from time to time.

[RedScare]

Well, assuming that you guys are not suggesting that HPD write citations to people that LOOK like panhandlers, just how would you enforce the ordinance? Would you have HPD divert even MORE of its officers to panhandling duty, away from violent parts of town, so that Class C ordinances are enforced? Would everyone feel better that they were not panhandled, even though their house was burglarized?

These are serious manpower issues, and I dare say that MOST Houstonians would rather have the cops busting real criminals, while we shoo away the bums ourselves. Even if violent crime was under control, most Houstonians would not advocate hiring a cadre of police just to go after panhandlers. Things like property taxes are more important.

Now, for those of you that insist on the ordinances being enforced, you are in luck. If a bum asks you for money, the statute says you must first ask him to move 8 feet away. If he does not, you may then call the police and make a report, so that a citation can be issued. You must agree to show up in court to testify to the crime that was committed. If you are willing to do these things in order to make your city a better place, I am confident that HPD will do its part.

As you might guess, panhandlers, like other criminals, do not often commit their crimes in view of the police. It is up to alert citizens like yourselves to assist the police in ridding Downtown of this scourge. Good luck in cleaning up Downtown Houston, and making it a World Class City. I am proud to have assisted in my small way.

[Double L]

It seems like a good law, I say do it and that it doesn't hold people back from opportunities, it forces them to take advantage of opportunities.

But you guys know that we don't have a lot of panhandlers downtown right? San Antonio has tons of panhandlers downtown. Maybe there is a law in place and downtown is simply where it is enforced or maybe the law is for downtown only.

[TJones]

There is a panhandler, that has walked up and down Richmond and Westhiemer for years. He is a little joyful black man named "Dallas". Although my stance on bums and panhandlers is a little slanted toward, "go get a job at Mickey D's !" I have found myself buying "Dallas" a meal at the McD's and I still have a little statue of a Panther that he asked me to buy from him for $2 dollars. The guy is harmless and really is "In need", the problem is all the scam artists who panhandle and make $100 to $200 a day and then go in a better car than I'm driving, and go back to their homes that welfare is paying for.

"Dallas", is as colorful with his stories as "Leslie" is with his dressing habits in Austin.

[MidtownCoog]

The New Juniper, just grow some and make the bums scared of you.

Once you freak out your first bum, you'll forever walk with a swagger that will tell the bums that YOU are in charge, and of course, that you ain't got no change.

Boo!

[The New Juniper]

Well, assuming that you guys are not suggesting that HPD write citations to people that LOOK like panhandlers, just how would you enforce the ordinance? Would you have HPD divert even MORE of its officers to panhandling duty, away from violent parts of town, so that Class C ordinances are enforced? Would everyone feel better that they were not panhandled, even though their house was burglarized?

These are serious manpower issues, and I dare say that MOST Houstonians would rather have the cops busting real criminals, while we shoo away the bums ourselves. Even if violent crime was under control, most Houstonians would not advocate hiring a cadre of police just to go after panhandlers. Things like property taxes are more important.

Now, for those of you that insist on the ordinances being enforced, you are in luck. If a bum asks you for money, the statute says you must first ask him to move 8 feet away. If he does not, you may then call the police and make a report, so that a citation can be issued. You must agree to show up in court to testify to the crime that was committed. If you are willing to do these things in order to make your city a better place, I am confident that HPD will do its part.

As you might guess, panhandlers, like other criminals, do not often commit their crimes in view of the police. It is up to alert citizens like yourselves to assist the police in ridding Downtown of this scourge. Good luck in cleaning up Downtown Houston, and making it a World Class City. I am proud to have assisted in my small way.

Nowhere did i say it was the most important thing on the HPD's plate. Shifting the argument to this point is sidestepping the issue.

Again, if it is against the law, why is it so openly done? The laws that are a pain to enforce shouldn't be enforced?

Let's just enforce those that are convenient.

[TJones]

Nowhere did i say it was the most important thing on the HPD's plate. Shifting the argument to this point is sidestepping the issue.

Again, if it is against the law, why is it so openly done? The laws that are a pain to enforce shouldn't be enforced?

Let's just enforce those that are convenient.

RedScare explained it pretty well, Class C misdemeanor. It's like going to a Graffiti call, cops know by the time they get there, the vandalizer is gonna be gone. Calls are put on a prority basis. If you really want to see where "Panhandling" is being enforced, take a drive out to Katy sometime. The only "Panhandlers" you'll see is the local youth league softball girls trying to get donations to go to state.

[ricco67]

Nowhere did i say it was the most important thing on the HPD's plate. Shifting the argument to this point is sidestepping the issue.

Again, if it is against the law, why is it so openly done? The laws that are a pain to enforce shouldn't be enforced?

Let's just enforce those that are convenient.

Just because there is a law against it doesn't mean people are not going to do it just because of the law.

Murder is against the law and there are a few seem to get committed, while some even do it as a hobby.

[TJones]

Just because there is a law against it doesn't mean people are not going to do it just because of the law.

Murder is against the law and there are a few seem to get committed, while some even do it as a hobby.

I recall a law against smoking pot also. When in Rome though.

[MarthaG]

At the intersection of TC Jester and 6-10 Loop there is a group of 3 or 4 beggers that take turns on these corners most afternoons with their little folding signs asking for money, with a cigarette in their hands.

My theroy is, if they can afford that pack of cigarettes they do not need my dollar.

Thanks Red, I figure if you are providing the cigs, then you're saving me the bucks.

[sevfiv]

there will always be panhandlers - if they are breaking the law, and receive a citation, what good does that do? jail? free bed and meal, on us.

no one likes to be bothered, but like mentioned earlier, depending on one's attitude, it doesn't have to be so bothersome.

and we rarely know the circumstances that put them where they are now.

the liars are more insulting, though (i need gas, but won't meet you at the station, or get really peeved when you tell them to call the 800 number on the back of their license or callmap).

[TJones]

There is a panhandler, that has walked up and down Richmond and Westhiemer for years. He is a little joyful black man named "Dallas". Although my stance on bums and panhandlers is a little slanted toward, "go get a job at Mickey D's !" I have found myself buying "Dallas" a meal at the McD's and I still have a little statue of a Panther that he asked me to buy from him for $2 dollars. The guy is harmeless and really is "In need", the problem is all the scam artists who panhandle and make $100 to $200 a day and then go in a better car than I'm driving, and go back to their homes that welfare is paying for.

"Dallas", is as colorful with his stories as "Leslie" is with his dressing habits in Austin.

Just in case some of you don't know who "leslie" is:

[MidtownCoog]

Man, is it STD Awareness week already?

[Pumapayam]

Illegal all the way. Our property taxes go to support city funded shelters.

They should go there to get cleaned up, use the internet to find a job and get back in the work place and quit dirtying up our streets!

[jmancuso]

Illegal all the way. Our property taxes go to support city funded shelters.

They should go there to get cleaned up, use the internet to find a job and get back in the work place and quit dirtying up our streets!

a good chunk of these people are mentaly ill or just plain worn out from life and are incapable of finding and maintaining a job. there is no where for them to go other than the corner of hilcroft and westheimer.

the hustlers with the squeegies i can do with out. they are aggressive and dont take no for an answer.

[musicman]

Illegal all the way. Our property taxes go to support city funded shelters.

They should go there to get cleaned up, use the internet to find a job and get back in the work place and quit dirtying up our streets!

In actuality, panhandling isn't illegal. Yrs ago the city tried the tactic and the houston chronicle sued because their workers regularly sell papers on the median. well in the end, the chronicle won. The city has subsequently tried to narrow their scope. ie. not allowing kids, not in downtown/midtown proper, etc.