Fort Bend Tollway Connection To Loop 610 West & South Post Oak Rd.

[DJ2025]

How do they plan to squeeze a freeway into the right away on South Post Oak (between Bellfort and Willowbend Blvd)???

I've been trying to find some schematics because I'm curious as to how they will do it without tearing down every business along that route.

[westguy]

I think they're going to condemn South Post Oak and build the tollway using that right-of-way. I just know that all of those properties will be displaced.

[DJ2025]

That's going to be the first time in awhile where they've had to do that in Houston to build a freeway (tear down multiple businesses)

At least that I'm aware of.........

[ssullivan]

That's going to be the first time in awhile where they've had to do that in Houston to build a freeway (tear down multiple businesses)

At least that I'm aware of.........

It's been going on for a couple of years now for the Katy Freeway expansion with both homes and neighborhoods. True, it's not a new freeway but it involves a lot more property than what the Post Oak tollway project does.

[WestGrayGuy]

That is part of an old freeway that was planned for the area. The Bay City freeway which was first planned in 1971 but later deleted in 1979. The plan was to have a freeway extending from that corner of the loop south past the beltway going down parallel to the coast to Bay City in Matagorda County.

Those overpasses were the beginnings of that freeway. Check out a pretty cool site if you haven't already:

Texas Freeway

This will give some info on roads around Texas, past, present and future.

[ssullivan]

That is part of an old freeway that was planned for the area.  The Bay City freeway which was first planned in 1971 but later deleted in 1979.  The plan was to have a freeway extending from that corner of the loop south past the beltway going down parallel to the coast to Bay City in Matagorda County.

Those overpasses were the beginnings of that freeway. Check out a pretty cool site if you haven't already:

Texas Freeway

This will give some info on roads around Texas, past, present and future.

Yeah, TexasFreeway.com is a great site.

I remember when the South/West Loop 610/South Post Oak Blvd. interchange was incomplete in the 1980s and a couple of ramps were stubs that connected to nothing. In about 1987 the completed interchange and the short freeway segment on South Post Oak from the interchange to just south of West Bellfort (including the West Bellfort overpass) was opened to traffic. Before that when you took the South Post Oak Blvd. exit from the West Loop you went over the overpass above North and South Braeswood and then were forced onto a temporary exit to the South Post Oak frontage road and a traffic light at West Bellfort. I remember driving onto that old stub of freeway well and taking the temporary exit to get to my grandparents' house in Willow Meadows in the late 1970s.

[DJ2025]

Texas Freeway

This will give some info on roads around Texas, past, present and future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I've been keeping up with that site for a few years now......the author hasn't seen any new schematics for the extension either (I emailed them).

[DJ2025]

Post Oak......between Bellfort and Highway 90, there's hardly any room for a freeway.

They are going to have to tear down a lot of homes and businesses for that. Any opposition to it so far?

[Casual Observer]

Tear em' down baby - tear em' down..

[tigereye]

Post Oak......between Bellfort and Highway 90, there's hardly any room for a freeway.

They are going to have to tear down a lot of homes and businesses for that. Any opposition to it so far?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would imagine buyouts first.

From there, if extreme measures are needed, eminent domain could be authorized. This is currently happening to homeowners in Arlington for land to be cleared for a new Dallas Cowboys stadium.

[MaxConcrete]

Post Oak......between Bellfort and Highway 90, there's hardly any room for a freeway.

They are going to have to tear down a lot of homes and businesses for that. Any opposition to it so far?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HCTRA has a schematic of the plans online, showing the properties that are affected.

http://www.hctra.com/engineering/pdf_fortbend/special.pdf

It looks like no homes will be displaced. South of Willowbend, properties on the west side of Post Oak Road are affected. At Willowbend, commercial properties on both sides are affected. Displacements are minimized by using the narrowest possible right-of-way for the tollway.

There is opposition to the project, mainly from Westbury-area civic associations and the CTC (Citizens Transportation Coalition, which is opposing just about all highway/tollway projects in Houston). I'm not aware of opposition from interests immediately along the corridor.

[Casual Observer]

CTC (Citizens Transportation Coalition, which is opposing just about all highway/tollway projects in Houston).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are they generally for then, in lieu of new roadways?

[kjb434]

Nothing. I find that the CTC in general if completely opposed to any new road construction or even a comprimise.

Good find MaxConcrete. At the rate they're buing the lower extension the Beltway to US 90, this project should be done in no time.

[Guest Plastic]

Anybody ridden this road? I heard it completed to HWY 90. How many lanes is it? DOes it have any frontages? Got any pictures.

Now if it's owned and operated by F Bend I don't know how they've got part of it in Harris County. Unless Harris County owns part of it. They are supposed to continue it to The Loop on or paralell to S.Poast Oak. I don't know how they are gonna do that since there isn't much room.

ANybody have any pics?

[YakuzaIce]

Yes I have ridden it. I don't think it has feeder roads. It is two or three lanes. I hope it doesn't go all the way to the loop.

My opinion on it is that it doesn't help much. When I go out that way I take 59 and then change roads a couple times. I was convinced by some friends out there to take ft bend TR. It was pretty empty, but it took a good five or more minutes longer compared to my route with medium traffic.

[Guest Plastic]

I don't know why they built it. aAlthough there was a HWY needed from The Loop to McHard Rd.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

I don't know why they built it. aAlthough there was a HWY needed from  The Loop to McHard Rd.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was built to spur development in Fort Bend County. A group of developers helped get the ball rolling many years ago.

Similarly, developers are pushing a toll road out to Brazoria County as well for the same reason...to get access to currently undeveloped (and cheap) land.

[UrbaNerd]

That's HW 5, or something. Currently, the HW would tie into the double portion of I45 south, near UofH. As it is now, all there is is a spur leading from the freeway ontom a few feeder lanes. (At least I think so....)

[Guest Plastic]

That's HWY 35 you mean. That's going to be The Alvin Expressway. It's going to be the main route for 25 and the one now is gonna be the 35 Buisness.

I just don't know why it doesn't continue on the key maps. Look on your key map and the proposed 35 stops around Hobby Airport.

[MaxConcrete]

ANybody have any pics?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, photos are available.

This link includes photos of the most recently opened section, from BW8 to 90A

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/2005...ton_update.aspx

This link is a driving tour of the first section, from SH 6 to BW8, taken September 1, 2004, just a few days after it opened

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/2004...nd_parkway.aspx

There are also links to pages with construction progress reports on this page

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern_photos.aspx

[kjb434]

The section to US 90 is not finished yet. The toll road is pushed by the developers and will provide some relief to US 59 by letting traffic access the south and west loops from S Post Oak.

This project will also make the land between the Beltway and the Loop along it's corridor developable because of access.

[plumber2]

Post Oak......between Bellfort and Highway 90, there's hardly any room for a freeway.

They are going to have to tear down a lot of homes and businesses for that. Any opposition to it so far?

This section was on the maps even back in the 60's. The dotted line went from Bellfort south, turning slightly to the west. You can see the alingment for a short distance with the building setbacks along the west side of S. Post Oak Rd. The dotted line then curved

to meet up with Hilcroft south of A90. This section of Hilcroft was already wide and waiting for the freeway.

[ehtx1]

I live in Fort Bend County and I am just amazed at how the traffic conjestion has exploded since I moved there in 2008. The Southwest Freeway is a joke, Highway 90 is getting crazy, Westpark & Highway 6 South (come on, are u serious) ! Was thinking maybe they could consider connecting the useless Fort Bend Tollway to South Post Oak and have that freeway built out from the connection at the West Loop south of Bellaire, all the way out to where the Grand Parkway is going to be south of Rosenberg. That would provide some relief for us out in Fort Bend (second largest county in the region, 585,375 pop). Just saying, please do something TXDOT.

[Fringe]

The original plan was to have the Fort Bend Tollway connect to Post Oak and 610 but because of it's limited use I believe that plan has been put on scrapped. Hwy 90 wouldn't be bad if they could do something about the 610 back-up. Westpark was doomed to start with since the railroad wouldn't give them enough land to make more lanes.

I agree 59 is getting really bad.

[LTAWACS]

Why could not the land for more lanes be purchased from the RR? It's not our fault they cannot move out of the way.

[Slick Vik]

Why could not the land for more lanes be purchased from the RR? It's not our fault they cannot move out of the way.

To play devil's advocate, the RR could say, "It's not our fault you don't live closer to your work place."

[IHB2]

To play devil's advocate, the RR could say, "It's not our fault you don't live closer to your work place."

if you're talking about the ROW on the south side of the Westpark Tollway it belongs to METRO all the way west to near Eagle Lake. The commissioners crammed the Wpark into the smallest possible space to avoid eminent domain/spending more $. that's why the sound walls westbound around Alief are mere feet from the back walls of a couple of subdivisions.

[mfastx]

Something really needs to be done to somooow get people to take transit to work. Not sure what will work here, but the freeways are just getting worse and it will be extremely expensive to expand urban freeways such as 59. Insanely expensive.

Edited August 7, 2012 by mfastx

[ToryGattis]

if you're talking about the ROW on the south side of the Westpark Tollway it belongs to METRO all the way west to near Eagle Lake. The commissioners crammed the Wpark into the smallest possible space to avoid eminent domain/spending more $. that's why the sound walls westbound around Alief are mere feet from the back walls of a couple of subdivisions.

My understanding was that they would have liked to make Westpark wider, but METRO reserved the land for rail, which would be at least 20+ years from now.

[ToryGattis]

Something really needs to be done to somooow get people to take transit to work. Not sure what will work here, but the freeways are just getting worse and it will be extremely expensive to expand urban freeways such as 59. Insanely expensive.

This is what would work (bottom paragraphs):

http://houstonstrate...-potential.html

...

What if Metro kept the GMP as-is, but to raise funds for the Universities line, it sold its HOV/HOT lane network to HCTRA or TXDOT (who I think would do a better job managing and expanding it) and sold its commuter buses and Park-and-Ride lots to private operators? Metro would get the capital it needs, and Houston could get

the vastly more effective commuter transit system it needs: a comprehensive urban network of HOT lanes (maybe branded as “ MaX Lanes

(Managed eXpress Lanes) - moving the maximum number of people at maximum speed”) connecting all of the job centers and residential areas.

These lanes, in turn, may be best utilized by a

private express bus/shuttle/van and park-and-ride market providing single-seat service connecting every suburban residential community with each of Houston's decentralized major job centers. Private shuttle operators could compete on routes, schedule, reliability, price, service, and amenities like wifi and laptop trays. These services, in turn, could enable Houston to hold on to and even grow our job and tax base rather than see them dispersed to the far suburbs because of increasing traffic congestion (the new Exxon Woodlands mega-campus is a canary in the coal mine here). It could also be of great benefit to employers, allowing their employees to be more productive during their commutes (especially email). Finally, it could also open up new job opportunities to Houstonians by bringing additional options within their acceptable commute range.

I don't know how much money Metro might raise with this approach. They say they've put $1+ billion into the HOV network. I'm guessing the net present value of the expected cash stream from them being converted to HOT lanes is far less than that. Don't know what the P&R land or buses are worth. But I'm guessing they might get into substantial hundred-million dollar numbers, which would have to be a boost for the Universities line. An option at least worth exploring?

Edited August 7, 2012 by ToryGattis

[Trae]

My understanding was that they would have liked to make Westpark wider, but METRO reserved the land for rail, which would be at least 20+ years from now.

Metro had owned that entire ROW before selling off some to build the WT. The rail could have been here sooner if it wasn't for incompetence by Metro and dumb politicians. But whenever it is built, ridership on it will be pretty good...

[MaxConcrete]

Patronage of the Fort Bend Parkway is very low and well below its 2008 peak, according to data in the HCTRA FY 2011 annual report. (Although FY 2012 ended in February, the 2012 report is not yet online.)

https://www.hctra.org/file_download/171/TollRoad_FY2011.pdf

See pages 43 and 47. The 3,121,672 transactions in FY 2011 is about 8500 vehicles per day. There were 3,645,128 transactions in FY 2008 and patronage declined each year afterward. For comparison, the busiest section of toll road in the HCTRA system (Sam Houston North) had 68,303,640 transactions, or about 187,000 vehicles per day. Obviously the Fort Bend Parkway is not doing much to relieve traffic on the southwest side.

I don't know the latest status of the connection between US 90A and the West Loop, but my understanding is that it is indefinitely deferred but not dead. There are no plans to move forward with it anytime soon.

As for the general traffic situation on the southwest side, there's really nothing in the works to provide relief or added capacity. Improvements to the US 59 south/Loop 610 interchange are under study, other than that I'm not aware of anything else in the pipeline. Of course the existing section of the Grand Parkway is being upgraded with tolled overpasses and the southwest section (US 59 to SH 288) will probably move forward eventually. But that's it.

For the next 10 years most available funds will go to the US 290 Northwest Freeway. The toll road system expansion will be on the Grand Parkway from US 290 to US 59 N, extending SH 249 as a toll road, and likely the Hardy Toll Road downtown connector. There will be a few smaller jobs, like the Gulf Freeway expansion at Clear Lake City. And that's it for the next 10 years.

So the situation is looking grim right now for highway infrastructure keeping up with population and economic growth. There will need to be some changes in political priorities for the grim funding situation to change.

Dallas-Fort Worth is using public-private partnerships to fund many of its highway expansions (all new lanes privately funded and heavily tolled). There are really only two, maybe three, opportunities for that in Houston: Grand Parkway F and G (which is in the PPP proposal phase), North Freeway between downtown and Beltway 8 (still in preliminary study, not imminent), and (maybe) the SH 288 toll lanes. So I don't see PPPs coming to the rescue.

[ToryGattis]

Could a PPP do the Hempstead Tollway and buy some time on 290?

[TheNiche]

Could a PPP do the Hempstead Tollway and buy some time on 290?

The only reason that 290 is moving as quickly as it is is because HCTRA has agreed to run toll lanes down the middle. Take that away and all we can afford in the near future are the interchanges at 610 and BW8. The rest of the project would actually slow down.

[MaxConcrete]

Could a PPP do the Hempstead Tollway and buy some time on 290?

I don't think the Hempstead Tollway was ever considered for a PPP, and with HCTRA participation in the main freeway project it is definitely less likely since there is limited demand for pricely toll service. My first impression is that the Hempstead Tollway would not be highly attractive to private interests.

However, I would prefer to see a more conventional funding approach to highway improvement. With the PPPs, the private entity collects tolls for the next 50 years - which for most people reading this will be longer than the rest of their lives. Tolls will be high and remain so forever, with little or no public influence in the tolling policy. I kind of see PPPs as a desperate last resort. DFW is desperate due the sheer number of multi-$billion freeway projects that need to be done. However, I can see more regions becoming desperate - such as Atlanta after the transportation tax was crushed by voters last week.

Edited August 8, 2012 by MaxConcrete

[LarryDierker]

If you don't like the traffic, apparently there are 10000 apartments opening in the loop this year. you might have to sacrifice your yard that isn't big enough to play catch in though. but there is plenty of room for catch at one of the lovely inner loop parks.

[mfastx]

This is what would work (bottom paragraphs):

http://houstonstrate...-potential.html

...

What if Metro kept the GMP as-is, but to raise funds for the Universities line, it sold its HOV/HOT lane network to HCTRA or TXDOT (who I think would do a better job managing and expanding it) and sold its commuter buses and Park-and-Ride lots to private operators? Metro would get the capital it needs, and Houston could get

the vastly more effective commuter transit system it needs: a comprehensive urban network of HOT lanes (maybe branded as “ MaX Lanes

(Managed eXpress Lanes) - moving the maximum number of people at maximum speed”) connecting all of the job centers and residential areas.

These lanes, in turn, may be best utilized by a

private express bus/shuttle/van and park-and-ride market providing single-seat service connecting every suburban residential community with each of Houston's decentralized major job centers. Private shuttle operators could compete on routes, schedule, reliability, price, service, and amenities like wifi and laptop trays. These services, in turn, could enable Houston to hold on to and even grow our job and tax base rather than see them dispersed to the far suburbs because of increasing traffic congestion (the new Exxon Woodlands mega-campus is a canary in the coal mine here). It could also be of great benefit to employers, allowing their employees to be more productive during their commutes (especially email). Finally, it could also open up new job opportunities to Houstonians by bringing additional options within their acceptable commute range.

I don't know how much money Metro might raise with this approach. They say they've put $1+ billion into the HOV network. I'm guessing the net present value of the expected cash stream from them being converted to HOT lanes is far less than that. Don't know what the P&R land or buses are worth. But I'm guessing they might get into substantial hundred-million dollar numbers, which would have to be a boost for the Universities line. An option at least worth exploring?

Good post, I had read that entry a couple of days ago.

[Fringe]

If you don't like the traffic, apparently there are 10000 apartments opening in the loop this year. you might have to sacrifice your yard that isn't big enough to play catch in though. but there is plenty of room for catch at one of the lovely inner loop parks.

No amount of traffic is worth going back to an apartment.

[LTAWACS]

To play devil's advocate, the RR could say, "It's not our fault you don't live closer to your work place."

Correct. So... why in the universe don't ppl live closer to their workplace?

[Pleak]

Because all the homeless live downtown.

[ToryGattis]

Correct. So... why in the universe don't ppl live closer to their workplace?

People buy the best value house - and school district - for them and their family within their commute tolerance, usually about a half-hour each way. That's inevitably out rather than in. Then there are the two-income couples (hard to live next to both employers), and the fact that people change jobs on average every 4 years or so, yet don't want to uproot their family every time if they can help it. So even if people do buy close to work, it probably doesn't last long for one or both spouses.

[Rail]

With the way Metro's finances are, they may very well sell the ROW they have along Westpark in the future.

[Greens!]

Has anything happened on this? South Post Oak is getting really bad traffic wise and I would bet that if the Fort Bend tollway didn't dump you onto the street network miles from any employment center it would have more usage.

[SkylineView]

Never going to happen.  FB toll road is focusing on south-bound expansion.  Imo, the current set up isn't the worst thing in the world, but a ramp or two off 610 would be super.

[IronTiger]

I can see two sort-of possibilities:

 

1) Widen 90-A to allow for a paralleling of Fort Bend Tollway, then have it curve north into South Post Oak Road. In addition to widening 90-A, about a mile of Post Oak Road will be mostly demolishing to allow for a full "freeway-style" toll road. The main lanes of the 610 branch from Post Oak Road would curve into this new toll road instead of merging into Post Oak Road (wasn't a freeway there the original plan?)

 

2) Upgrade 90-A to a full freeway, clearing about 40 meters of developed area between its two overpasses and taking out businesses on the south side of 610 to allow for direct ramps.

 

Both require demolition and new construction, though...

[SkylineView]

They could just add a toll ramp off 610 WB to 90S and 90N to 610 W/E and loft them.  Avoid the demo.  The fire station that has the exit perpendicular to the freeway is surprising.

[JLWM8609]

1 hour ago, SkylineView said:

They could just add a toll ramp off 610 WB to 90S and 90N to 610 W/E and loft them.  Avoid the demo.  The fire station that has the exit perpendicular to the freeway is surprising.

 

S. Main was a 4 lane divided highway with crossovers before the widening occurred. I guess it was cheaper to do the current setup than to have a conventional full freeway style feeder road there.

[IronTiger]

15 hours ago, SkylineView said:

They could just add a toll ramp off 610 WB to 90S and 90N to 610 W/E and loft them.  Avoid the demo.  The fire station that has the exit perpendicular to the freeway is surprising.

Nah, if you look at the space at 610 and South Main, on the SE there just isn't the space for a ramp to come in and merge (US90S to 610E), not unless you wanted to remove the dedicated U-turn lane for Buffalo Speedway. There wouldn't be demolition required if you wanted to expand the ROW on the right side of US90N to allow a ramp to split off from US90N, and even with removing the dedicated U-turn lane, you could still add new ROW near Buffalo Speedway.

 

On the southwest side,the ROW on the other side is very tight, but the only things possibly affected are a self-storage unit and a few low-end motels (Motel 6, Palace, Raintree) that I don't think are going to be casualties that are worth protesting over.

 

The NW side has a residential area, and I don't think they're going to like a double-decked highway (essentially) literally behind their yard. The noise barriers will be ineffective. Digging into the ROW for the auto dealership would provide ample space for the ramp to come in from 90S to 610W comfortably without disturbing the houses at all (relatively speaking).

 

The NE side is the same way, the frontage road would have to bowed out to allow room for ramps and an angle that would work.

 

Things demolished:

A good part of the auto dealerships on the north side

The McDonald's/Chevron

The Denny's

The motels on the SW side

Part of a self storage center

The Exxon on the SW side

 

Things saved:
All houses

Pretty much everything on the SE side

 

On the other hand, you could skip that...cantilever FB Tollway over US-90 and dig into a short section of Post Oak Road. Most of the retail there is pretty run down, and you can save the houses.

 

 

 

[SkylineView]

I'm totally with you on the dig-in option, but the neighborhood went nuts when it last came up.  

 

Maybe in a few years when 59 locks up some more.

[Blue Dogs]

 

 

Has Governor Greg Abbott [R] said anything about this ?