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This project looks interesting, but I don't like the tax credits.

Why not, this thing will return MORE than the $70 Million in credits to the tax base--but the question is whether keeping a part of the diamond and seatiing intact is worth $70 million, because that's what it amounts to. The credits are through the THC, and really has nothing to do with Houston or even Harris County for that matter.

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Why do you keep posting casino as if casino gambling was legal in Texas. Sure that is a great idea and would be perfect building for a casino, but that is crazy to post it. Should they build a casino in hopes that it will pass someday? Another great idea would be a huge brothel or green house to grow pot, but neither is legal either.

Thank you professor. I'm glad I graduated from law school and still need to be told that "gambling was [not] legal in Texas." I must have missed the lecture that day.

I am just posting a pipe dream, is that not legal either?

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Thank you professor. I'm glad I graduated from law school and still need to be told that "gambling was [not] legal in Texas." I must have missed the lecture that day.

I am just posting a pipe dream, is that not legal either?

Yes bk, pipe dreams are legal. If enough people had these kinds of "pipe dreams", then casino gambling would become a reality. Texas as a whole is still a very conservative State and this is ingrained in the mentality. If you don't think this indoctrination is real, just try discussing casino gambling with even young people. You will soon find out that the "sin" aspect of gambling is rampant. In truth, if Houston was seriously interested in bringing big time money and tourists to the city, they would lobby Austin for the rights to casino gambling.

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My only concern is that the would be developers become so "desperate" get something up that the project will turn out to be nothing more than a hodge-podge of loosely planned projects that don't really add up to a quality product.

I realize that time is money and that the longer the Astrodome sits in its current state, the more the taxpayers have to fork over, but you also don't want to squander what could be a prime opportunity to not only change the Astrodomain's environment but the character of the entire area hugging the South Loop between Fannin and Main Streets.

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I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this project. I'm happy the theme is being updated. I hope, HOPE, that it is done tastefully. It has the potential to be a big joke. Does anyone know who the architect or designers are? Please forgive, I haven't read this entire thread.

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UPDATE:

Fox 26 did a report tonight based solely on what the status of the project is. They also showed some more shots of the "modern hotel" look, as well as a shot of the site plan for the "modern look." The site plan illustrates the parking garage for the dome to be built on the east side (Fannin) walls of the dome in a "crescent moon" shape that follows the shape of the dome's walls. The interior shots clearly show the home plate area of the baseball diamond along with the section of seats directly behind homeplate, being retained in the design. However, it appears the homeplate area in the rendering is repositioned from the original dome baseball setup as to cater to the rest of the design for the redevloped dome. It appears sky-bridges will seperate the homeplate area from the pond areas. Also, one of the six restaurants planned will sit atop a "V" shaped pond on the north end of the dome. One more thing....looks like all of the rooms will have balconies that face towards the interior of the dome...but we all probably kenw that was coming anyways.

Does anyone know whom is tapped for architect on this project....there are more renderings out there and Fox 26 was showing them way too fast so they could cut back to Damili Keith's ugly mug (she was doing the report)

As for the status of the project, it was basically summed up as "all that is needed is financing" and that Astrodome Redevelopment Corp has until January 08' to secure that. (IIRC The Chornicle article made it sound like financing was already secured with Deutsche Bank WTF) Fox also asked Harris County Judge Ed Emmett on if he was optimistic on the Dome's plans. Emmett responded by saying that "he was neither optimistic nor pessimistic" about the project.

Edited by tigereye
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  • 1 month later...

I understand Bob McNair's concern. Sitting in a $450 million hotel complex is FAR more enjoyable than wasting a couple of hundred bucks watching his Texans give up 35 points in one half.

The Rodeo people, though, I think are merely throwing their beef-enhanced weight around for no good reason.

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I have no idea what in hell the "detriment" could be to either group but here's their stance on the hotel project...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5257204.html

Why are they just now speaking out about this?

But yeah, I was wondering how this was going to coexhist with the Reliant Center.

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It's almost as if they waited around to see "what's in it" for them and then when it looked as if the answer would be "not much", they decided to align against it.

That's EXACTLY what it is. One can read between the lines on the Dynamo stadium thread and see the exact same thing regarding the Astros parking lot.

Note to self. Billionaires who smile while on camera may not be as friendly as they appear.

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According to the article (which has changed the title to say that the project "may be dead"), it looks as if the new developers tried to cut the Texans and HLSR in on the profits. Those two seem worried about things like drink franchising rights, restaurants coming to the new Dome and not the Rodeo, and other things like that.

It seems to me that a deal could have been worked that allowed the Dome developers to do build the project but written into the deal that they cannot pursue or enter into contracts with entities currently involved with the Texans or the Rodeo unless those two agreed to it. It seems to me that Coke could have been the official drink of Reliant Park--period, for example, and that includes the new hotel. Maybe they could do something with scheduling, for example that the hotel provides most of it's proceeds from gamedays and Rodeo days to the Texans and HLSR. Just something to get the deal done.

Oh well. I am starting to lose hope that the Dome will be saved--especially since the Texans and Rodeo have veto power over any new redevelopment of it--whoever came up with that idea wasn't too smart, the County should be able to pursue deals that are best for the County, not the Texans and the Rodeo. So they'd make $99 Million instead of $100 Million. It seems to me that the critical mass would be worth more

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This Dome redevelopment would be so much better than making it into a parking lot for the Texans and HLSR. Hopefully they see the benefit of making the Dome into a hotel.

Oh, and especially with a light rail line right next to it, the Dome hotel could be a hit.

Edited by Trae
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I really liked this line:

"Every dollar spent that is spent there is one that might not be spent at the rodeo."

and this:

Jamey Rootes, a Texans' official, said the Texans were worried that the hotel would hamper the flow of fans in and out of games on the Texans' 10 game days.

Oh well. Personally, I've never been convinced that this concept had legs anyway. It was probably just a matter of time before enough people figured it out. Even as a preservation effort it was flawed, since it would have significantly altered the exterior appearance of the Dome.

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Wow. Short-sited beyond belief.

I also don't think the Texans and Rodeo folks are looking at the positives that having a 1300 room hotel chock full of entertainment options can have.

By the way, why in the Hell do either of these groups have the power to veto anything? Didn't the people build these complexes?

Hey redscare, I smell a lawsuit.

Oh well, just another reason to pay zero attention to the Texans...

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I wouldn't be too surprised if there is a lawsuit over this either. The proposal to turn the dome into a convention hotel didn't just pop up last week or last month. For years now there has been talk of turning the Astrodome into a hotel, why weren't the Texans and the Rodeo complaining that guest going to Reliant would be spending money at the hotel before this, and that they would be adversely affected.

The Astrodome Redevelopment Corporation has invested time and money into drawing up the project, locating financing and all this has been done in the public spotlight over the last several years. The Texans and Rodeo could have spoken up years ago that this project was going to be vetod.

So, if the Texans or the Rodeo are not going to allow any project that would draw people away from their venues to be built in the Astrodome, what could possibly be allowed? Even a cheap flea market would lure some people from the games and cow torturing going on in Reliant on those few days out of the year they are open for business.

If this plan is killed now, why would any other development corporation want to come in and spend several million dollars trying to get another project organized if the Texans and the Rodeo are able to just veto it after 5 years of work and effort.

IMO, If this project is allowed to die then the Astrodome is gone.

Edited by Mister X
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Why don't they redevelop the Astrodome into the new stadium for the Dynamo. Make the roof clear glass like was originally proposed. There may be room for a hotel component given Soccer stadium capacities. Was this solution proposed? Seems like a good idea to me, although I am sure so much money has already been sunk into the redevelopment plan and Dynamo project already that moving backward is not possible.

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I wouldn't be too surprised if there is a lawsuit over this either. The proposal to turn the dome into a convention hotel didn't just pop up last week or last month. For years now there has been talk of turning the Astrodome into a hotel, why weren't the Texans and the Rodeo complaining that guest going to Reliant would be spending money at the hotel before this, and that they would be adversely affected.

The Astrodome Redevelopment Corporation has invested time and money into drawing up the project, locating financing and all this has been done in the public spotlight over the last several years. The Texans and Rodeo could have spoken up years ago that this project was going to be vetod.

So, if the Texans or the Rodeo are not going to allow any project that would draw people away from their venues to be built in the Astrodome, what could possibly be allowed? Even a cheap flea market would lure some people from the games and cow torturing going on in Reliant on those few days out of the year they are open for business.

If this plan is killed now, why would any other development corporation want to come in and spend several million dollars trying to get another project organized if the Texans and the Rodeo are able to just veto it after 5 years of work and effort.

IMO, If this project is allowed to die then the Astrodome is gone.

Good post. I agree.

Maybe what the Texans and Rodeo really want is for it to be torn down? Because you're right, anything is most likely going to draw people away from them. If they plan on vetoing it, they should be forced to buy it or something.

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The voters give Texans and Rodeo new Stadium now they want to control what happens with it. I agree, who's idea was that? It seems to me the tax paying public should decide whats gonna be done w/ the dome seeing how we are still paying on the renovations.

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Reliant and the Rodeo would love for the Dome to be gone. It means more $20 parking revenue potential per car at Texans games and more space for the rodeo to sell fried dough to make dough!

To me, to see the Dome torn down to make room for more surface parking in a section of Houston that is BLEAK enough as it is right now (surface parking, practice bubbles, car dealerships, dirt where Astroworld once stood, etc...) would be the ultimate insult.

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Maybe what the Texans and Rodeo really want is for it to be torn down? Because you're right, anything is most likely going to draw people away from them.

I don't understand this concept. The Texans would still play around ten games a year with or without the Astrodome in the parking lot, and people will still go to Texans games regardless of what's in the parking lot. The rodeo would still only have three weeks straight of events at Reliant Stadium and the parking lot, and wouldn't deter people from going to any of the rodeo events either.

If anything, it would probably give the Texans a better chance at hosting the Super Bowl, would have given the Rodeo another updated facility for Livestock and Rodeo events, and probably would have meant more convention revenue. How they figured that a convention hotel would have discouraged Houstonians and tourists from watching Clint Black, Hanna Montana, or Texans vs. Titans is beyond me. Where exactly did they see their money being lost if the Astrodome were redeveloped?

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Reliant and the Rodeo would love for the Dome to be gone. It means more $20 parking revenue potential per car at Texans games and more space for the rodeo to sell fried dough to make dough!

You may be right. They would probably love to build a parking garage there.

The Texans' stated reasoning sounds thin, and it may simply be they want a greater cut of hotel revenue and, as the article mentioned, rights to use the hotel parking on those ten game days.

If they plan on vetoing it, they should be forced to buy it or something.

I don't think there are laws by which they could be "forced" to buy the Astrodome.

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I agree, IMO it sounds like they want all of the profits from the new operation, because they are already getting cuts from the buisness, and use of the parking garage and get to keep the revenue from that.I think that money should off set the so called losses they would get. Personally I do not see people that pay to go to the Rodeo and Texans games wasting their time at the hotel since a majority already live in Houston. I can see this bringing in more out of town buisness, especially seeing how it is right next to the rail line.

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The people behind the dome hotel were on the Ken Hoffman show yesterday and they seem to not be backing down from it. They said they don't know of a legitimate reason for the rodeo or Texans having any kind of real say-so in it. I guess we'll see. Until then, screw the Texans and the rodeo.

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I'm with you guys on this one. There is simply NO reason that the dome could not be renovated into the 1300 room hotel and be an asset to Reliant Park. Texans and Rodeo want more $$$ for parking. Greed. Rodeo attendance has been down in the past few years. Sounds like Rodeo needs to entertain some fresh ideas. The hotel would be very helpful in drawing more conventions to Reliant. Guests could stay at the hotel and have the convenience of the train to Museum District, downtown, etc.

:wacko:

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I don't understand this concept. The Texans would still play around ten games a year with or without the Astrodome in the parking lot, and people will still go to Texans games regardless of what's in the parking lot. The rodeo would still only have three weeks straight of events at Reliant Stadium and the parking lot, and wouldn't deter people from going to any of the rodeo events either.

If anything, it would probably give the Texans a better chance at hosting the Super Bowl, would have given the Rodeo another updated facility for Livestock and Rodeo events, and probably would have meant more convention revenue. How they figured that a convention hotel would have discouraged Houstonians and tourists from watching Clint Black, Hanna Montana, or Texans vs. Titans is beyond me. Where exactly did they see their money being lost if the Astrodome were redeveloped?

This is EXACTLY why the Texans have failed to secure another Super Bowl. The same attempt to squeeze every buck out of the fans and the County that is going on with this project is also being used against the small market NFL owners. While the citizens of Houston cannot do much about it (McNair already got his stadium), the NFL owners can...and did. They voted down attempts to get another Super Bowl.

Any suggestion that IF Houston did this or that, we would get another Super Bowl, is ignoring the business realities of the NFL. When one owner tries to take revenue from the other owners, they will strike back. The sooner people understand this, the sooner people will stop using the "this could help us get a Super Bowl" argument. In short, it will not.

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This is EXACTLY why the Texans have failed to secure another Super Bowl. The same attempt to squeeze every buck out of the fans and the County that is going on with this project is also being used against the small market NFL owners. While the citizens of Houston cannot do much about it (McNair already got his stadium), the NFL owners can...and did. They voted down attempts to get another Super Bowl.

Any suggestion that IF Houston did this or that, we would get another Super Bowl, is ignoring the business realities of the NFL. When one owner tries to take revenue from the other owners, they will strike back. The sooner people understand this, the sooner people will stop using the "this could help us get a Super Bowl" argument. In short, it will not.

Correct if I am wrong but didn't the small market owners want revenue sharing and big market owners like Mcnair did not want to share revenues.

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I'm with you guys on this one. There is simply NO reason that the dome could not be renovated into the 1300 room hotel and be an asset to Reliant Park. Texans and Rodeo want more $$$ for parking. Greed. Rodeo attendance has been down in the past few years. Sounds like Rodeo needs to entertain some fresh ideas. The hotel would be very helpful in drawing more conventions to Reliant. Guests could stay at the hotel and have the convenience of the train to Museum District, downtown, etc.

:wacko:

Especially when the Texans bring customers to Reliant Park exactly 10 days a year and the Rodeo brings them approximately 30 days a year. Now why, may I ask, do these two groups who only bring in customers 40 out of 365 days out of the year get to decide what happens on the other 325 days?!? It's out-frikkin-rageous!

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Now why, may I ask, do these two groups who only bring in customers 40 out of 365 days out of the year get to decide what happens on the other 325 days?!? It's out-frikkin-rageous!

The article doesn't go into detail, but presumably it was something they negotiated as part of their leases for Reliant Stadium. The concern gets down to the threat that the hotel would probably sell cheaper beers than the $10 ones available at football games, and therefore endanger the financial stability of the Texans.

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The concern gets down to the threat that the hotel would probably sell cheaper beers than the $10 ones available at football games, and therefore endanger the financial stability of the Texans.

so what? maybe i'm missing something here, but are they actually concerned that the proposed hotel would hurt attendance? of course the hotel would sell cheaper beers, so does Homeplate, Third Base, and the Inn at the Ballpark.

i understand the parking thing and how that takes away from revenue. couldn't reliant use their parking for hotel off season and make some money off that? Guess the hotel would have its own parking and not need any more.

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so what? maybe i'm missing something here, but are they actually concerned that the proposed hotel would hurt attendance? of course the hotel would sell cheaper beers, so does Homeplate, Third Base, and the Inn at the Ballpark.

No, not that it would hurt attendance, but precisely what you say: they would make less money because food and beverages would be cheaper in the hotel food court.

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I would prefer a space and air museum rather than some cheesy convention hotel. Giving Harris County tax payers and visitors a showcase of what actually put Houston on the map would be the best use of the Dome in my opinion. Now I know we have Space Center Houston but I think that center has been pretty much a failure.

Just my 2cents.

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I would prefer a space and air museum rather than some cheesy convention hotel. Giving Harris County tax payers and visitors a showcase of what actually put Houston on the map would be the best use of the Dome in my opinion. Now I know we have Space Center Houston but I think that center has been pretty much a failure.

Just my 2cents.

But the Texans and the Rodeo will have problems with this venue as well. :rolleyes:

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No, not that it would hurt attendance, but precisely what you say: they would make less money because food and beverages would be cheaper in the hotel food court.

So, the Texans are thinking people are going to leave the stadium, go in the Astrodome Hotel, buy a beer and go back to the stadium with it?

And, the last time I went to the rodeo I had to pay admission to get in. I didn't even think of going to my car where I had a corndog stashed.

Their arguments are fishy. It seems to me 'those people' are holding the good citizens of Harris County back from a good deal. Where is Ida Tarbell?

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So, the Texans are thinking people are going to leave the stadium, go in the Astrodome Hotel, buy a beer and go back to the stadium with it?

And, the last time I went to the rodeo I had to pay admission to get in. I didn't even think of going to my car where I had a corndog stashed.

Their arguments are fishy. It seems to me 'those people' are holding the good citizens of Harris County back from a good deal. Where is Ida Tarbell?

I totally agree. LMAO leave Reliant while the game is on and return. :D

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