Highway 288

[TheNiche]

In the short term. Forward to the day when there really is density. It is a solution.

The idea of congestion pricing is to make it less appealing to go somewhere. Under that policy, the demand schedule for trips to get to that place is unchanged; the supply schedule shifts outward (i.e. gets more expensive), so quantity of trips demanded is reduced. If this is done in one part of a region and not another, it creates a competitive advantage for greater commercial development to occur where total transportation costs are relatively lower. It stunts densification in the targeted area.The redeeming quality of a toll road is that people can use it to make origin-destination pairs that aren't even remotely close to one another, so that the cost of those improvements is borne out equitably. Only about 6% of our regional employment is downtown, yet commuters employed in the downtown area can be found on every single freeway in our region. They share the road with non-downtown commuters. So what is the impact, for instance, of a policy by which downtown commuters pay a toll to enter downtown if that toll funds projects designed to increase downtown accessibility? Its a free-rider problem; everybody benefits from downtowners' tolls. So again, the relative impact is to make it more desirable for firms to locate out of the tolled destination zone.

That certainly doesn't seem to have been the case in London. The congestion pricing there is considered quite successful, and the congestion zone was even expanded earlier this year. However, the reason it has been accepted is that the congestion charge is supposed to be spent on mass transit improvements.

London isn't an American sunbelt city.

[VelvetJ]

It's been going on for decades. This was the great funding mechanism that Robt. Moses used to build all his major projects in NYC. Think of tolls as just a tax collected in a different way. Your parents pay tolls for the construction of a freeway they don't use for the same reason people without kids have to pay school taxes.

I actually asked the previous question as a argument I often hear from those who support Houston being covered in toll roads. I personally view Houston's transportation system as a whole as a single entity that works together to the benefit of all Houstonians. Therefor, I do not mind my tax money going to a regional road project that I personally do not use everyday because I like to view things as Houstonians being in this together. So if expanding the Katy Freeway is going to help ease congestion, which will in turn help the entire region, how selfish of me to not want my tax money to go toward it simply because I personally do not use it. I'm not the only person who lives in Houston, and I am not the only person paying taxes.

I can't say I'm against toll roads themselves as much as I am against toll money I pay everyday going toward the building of NEW toll roads, whose toll fees will never be eliminated and will only continue to be increased with HCTRA using "easing congestion" as the sugar to the posion they are feeding the public.

*** (Does anyone know the effect the recent toll increase has had on congestion? I can tell you first hand it hasn't done much for the WestBelt. If it has, it is very little and I can only imagine it being back to pre-price hike levels before this time next year).

Another issue is I think the overwhelming focus on more roads for Houston is not wise. When I look into the future through my crystal ball , it is showing me we should probably move more aggressively in a direction that reduces the amount of cars on our roads and highways. Building more and more roads, free or tolled, is only making the area more convenient for the automobile. Gas is not going to get any cheaper, air quality is not going to get any better with more cars on the roads, and being at the mercy of Middle Eastern countries or South American Presidents is no longer fun. With these factors, aggressive building of more toll roads is wise for us?

To somewhat return to the subject at hand, I'm not opposed to a toll road down 288, but only with the promise to remove or significantly reduce the toll fee once the amount used to build it has been reached.

[TheNiche]

*** (Does anyone know the effect the recent toll increase has had on congestion? I can tell you first hand it hasn't done much for the WestBelt. If it has, it is very little and I can only imagine it being back to pre-price hike levels before this time next year).

The toll hike hasn't had much effect on West Belt congestion, but that's only because they didn't hike it high enough. HCTRA is clearly at fault, however, because this is something that they should've been doing with far greater regularity and consistency; they failed to manage toll road users' expectations. Had they done it propertly, they could've been rolling in dough and easily obtained financing to massively expand capacity.

Another issue is I think the overwhelming focus on more roads for Houston is not wise. When I look into the future through my crystal ball , it is showing me we should probably move more aggressively in a direction that reduces the amount of cars on our roads and highways. Building more and more roads, free or tolled, is only making the area more convenient for the automobile. Gas is not going to get any cheaper, air quality is not going to get any better with more cars on the roads, and being at the mercy of Middle Eastern countries or South American Presidents is no longer fun. With these factors, aggressive building of more toll roads is wise for us?

Building better highways is making the area more convenient for the form of transporation that the vast majority of us use. If the operating cost of a private automobile doubled overnight, it would reduce traffic volume, but at the same time, we'd have continuous population growth, so that before long, we'd be looking at the same level of congestion again. There are some cities, like Detroit, that could get away with not building any new roads, and over time an increase in gasoline costs would solve their congestion issues; we aren't Detroit. Besides, what do you suspect would replace the car? Do you suspect that it also might need a roadbed?

You made a statement about air quality not getting any better as more cars get on the roads. Not necessarily. Technology has improved dramatically in the past several decades so that air pollution was reduced even as aggregate miles driven skyrocketed.

[GovernorAggie]

The idea of congestion pricing is to make it less appealing to go somewhere.

I would agree with this and follow it up with "at certain times for people with certain income levels."

On a side note, I've seen (somewhere but can't remember) that the tolls on the Katy Tollway could go up to $5-$6 in the peak hour. I think that is what the cap was set to be in the agreement with TxDOT or something. A $6 toll goes to the notion of the "Lexus Lane", but you'll always hear managed lane and congestion pricing advocates use the day care example. In other words, a mom (or dad) running late picking a child up from daycare would be more than willing to pay the $6 to use the managed lanes instead of the $1 per minute late fee at their day care. I think a tollway in California may go all the way to about $9 for a toll.

Keep this in mind when you see "managed lane" or "HOT" lane projects listed for the area.

[marmer]

Several nights now, early evening, I've seen two or three (or more) cops -- Houston, constable, sheriff, shooting laser between 610 and BW8 on 288. A few more southbound, but some northbound, too. Some agency has a new Dodge Charger in white with the "Police" graphic subdued, and I've seen that one several times, too. What's going on with that? One thing you can say for 288 -- it doesn't seem to me to be full of people driving too _fast_!

[musicman]

it's just a speed trap. go down the gulf freeway in the morning. just about everyday there are 3 or 4 between 610 and the beltway.

[TJones]

They are merely making sure you are wearing your seatbelt, have proper registration on your car, and not going over the posted speed limit. They are just doing their jobs, imagine that. Making sure you get home safe and sound to your family, my gosh, what nerve those doughnut eaters have.

[marmer]

They are merely making sure you are wearing your seatbelt, have proper registration on your car, and not going over the posted speed limit. They are just doing their jobs, imagine that. Making sure you get home safe and sound to your family, my gosh, what nerve those doughnut eaters have.

OK, I almost didn't respond because I didn't want to start an argument. You certainly didn't speak to the intent of my post, which was asking if anyone knew a reason for the suddenly greatly increased speed enforcement on 288.

First of all, although wearing seatbelts and having proper registration are certainly good things, they have little to no effect on my getting home safely. Not arguing against seatbelts, and I could be wrong, but in heavy traffic at highway speeds it doesn't seem very easy to see if someone is wearing a seatbelt. And I haven't seen any reports of major accidents with significant injuries which might (maybe) cause a higher priority on seatbelt enforcement.

Registration doesn't even come into play until the traffic stop. Same with the inspection sticker, which actually has some, though in today's world, minor, effect on safety.

I drive it every day, and I haven't seen a bunch of wrecks. I haven't seen a bunch of people driving way faster than the flow of traffic. I do think people driving way faster than the flow of traffic should be stopped. But this is usually heavy enough traffic that driving faster than the speed limit is not possible. Of course they are doing their job and doing what they are told to do. But it sure looks to me like they have been told to sit there with laser and cherrypick cars until they get lucky enough to catch someone going barely fast enough not to get laughed out of court. And I do have a problem with that. EDIT: I have never been stopped on 288 or in the Pearland area.

Edited April 24, 2008 by marmer

[N Judah]

It's the MONNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[editor]

[N Judah]

Egads, I am caught! C'est la vie.

Edited April 24, 2008 by N Judah

[marmer]

And another thing, if it is for revenue purposes, which is what it sounds like, isn't there fairly significant cost to the county/city to have that many assets (cars, officers, laser guns) tied up to catch a handful of relatively small-potatoes speeders? I would think you'd get more bang for the buck, so to speak, with one cop, in light traffic, catching the occasional leadfoot going 20+ over up where the fines get big and there's actually some safety benefit...

Just asking. I could be all wrong. I'm not anti-cop, this just seems weird.

[20thStDad]

You can't get more bang for the buck than being able to pull over one after the other, which I see them do all day, both ways, on 288.

Personally I'd feel safer if they did a damn thing about catching people who steal things, but according to them it's pretty much not possible.

Edited April 25, 2008 by 20thStDad

[CoolBuddy06]

It's the MONNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Yep, it's the $$$. And you have many PDs looking for it on 288: HPD, Harris County Sheriff, Pearland Police, Brazoria County Sheriff, Manvel Police (a little to the south), and Troopers all have some juris on 288!!! Go figure.

Solution?

[CoolBuddy06]

I read sometimes past that 288 will get four more lanes between 59 and CR 56. I've been looking for more info since then but couldn't get anything. Any news, links, timeline on this?

[memebag]

Solution?

1. Never speed.

2. Keep inspection, registration and insurance up to date.

3. Wear seat belts.

If they can't write tickets, they'll have to do something else.

[ToryGattis]

Well, I went to the TXDoT public meeting on this, but I don't have any links other than my own blog post on it. They had comprehensive drawings, including some innovative entrances and exits near the Medical Center. The 4 lanes will be a congestion priced toll road. Current plan is construction start by 2010, with completion in stages between 2012 and 2014

Edited May 3, 2008 by ToryGattis

[njvisitor]

Wow, fantastic post!

While I'm disappointed in their decision to build a toll road, at least it'll get some people off the free highway. Also, I imagine buses will use the toll as some sort of psuedo-HOV lane...

[Trae]

I am sure buses would use it.

Was hoping some sort of commuter rail could be built down the middle. Too many tollways going up in Houston.

[cottonmather0]

You must not drive much down southbound 288!

[memebag]

You must not drive much down southbound 288!

You talkin' to me? I drive down 288 southbound twice a week.

[CoolBuddy06]

Well, I went to the TXDoT public meeting on this, but I don't have any links other than my own blog post on it. They had comprehensive drawings, including some innovative entrances and exits near the Medical Center. The 4 lanes will be a congestion priced toll road. Current plan is construction start by 2010, with completion in stages between 2012 and 2014

Thanks Tory. Your blog gives great info on the project. My wife and I are typical 288 users. We work deep nights just because of the congestion! We're thinking of changing to days but can't stand the unidirectional traffic, which will start off daily at CR 59 or even Hwy 6 when housing market picks up again. Looks like we'll work nights for some more years.

[CoolBuddy06]

Talking about rail. I think that would have been the best. Have a light rail that starts at Hwy 6 or further south, make stops at just 4 places: Beltway 8, Airpot Blvd, 610, MacGregor, and terminates at 59. Rideship will be great. I don't see how it won't break even. The same should have been done to I-10. Or what do you think?

[musicman]

Talking about rail. I think that would have been the best. Have a light rail that starts at Hwy 6 or further south, make stops at just 4 places: Beltway 8, Airpot Blvd, 610, MacGregor, and terminates at 59. Rideship will be great. I don't see how it won't break even. The same should have been done to I-10. Or what do you think?

I'm not sure i'd want to be dropped off at 59 and 288.

[N Judah]

1. Never speed.

2. Keep inspection, registration and insurance up to date.

3. Wear seat belts.

If they can't write tickets, they'll have to do something else.

Like what, jaywalking? Nothing pulls in the revenue like speeding tickets. If they can't write tickets, I am terrified at the thought of what depths they might stoop to.

[memebag]

Like what, jaywalking? Nothing pulls in the revenue like speeding tickets. If they can't write tickets, I am terrified at the thought of what depths they might stoop to.

So ... it's our duty to let our insurance lapse to keep the cops from mischief?

[N Judah]

So ... it's our duty to let our insurance lapse to keep the cops from mischief?

I think it's either that or some cops will end up getting laid off or have their hours cut back. Sort of like billable hours.

[cottonmather0]

You talkin' to me? I drive down 288 southbound twice a week.

No, the OP.

It seems like a pretty silly question if you drive down 288 at all with any regularity. There are ALWAYS cops everywhere.

[marmer]

No, the OP.

It seems like a pretty silly question if you drive down 288 at all with any regularity. There are ALWAYS cops everywhere.

I am the original poster. I commute from Pearland to Houston on 288 every week day and usually at least one weekend day. I have done so since the fall of 1990. I'd be willing to bet that I have driven more miles on 288 than you have. There are often several cops, in somewhat predictable locations. Since HPD got the Charger a month or so ago, there have been quite noticeably more, and out of the cars shooting laser, which they didn't use to do. I'm wondering why the change, because it is definitely a change.

[CoolBuddy06]

I'm not sure i'd want to be dropped off at 59 and 288.

Me too, but I'm sure that's not gonna happen.

[TheNiche]

Talking about rail. I think that would have been the best. Have a light rail that starts at Hwy 6 or further south, make stops at just 4 places: Beltway 8, Airpot Blvd, 610, MacGregor, and terminates at 59. Rideship will be great. I don't see how it won't break even. The same should have been done to I-10. Or what do you think?

What's the advantage over Park & Ride on an HOT that is so much more compelling that it could justify several times the cost and also exclude auto traffic and still make sense?

Edited June 1, 2008 by TheNiche

[CoolBuddy06]

What's the advantage over Park & Ride on an HOT that is so much more compelling that it could justify several times the cost and also exclude auto traffic and still make sense?

You've got a point there Niche. I can't think of an outstanding advantage of rail over buses in surburbs. Just love to see things done that will make people use their cars less. I think rail will do that and that people prefer rail over buses.

[CoolBuddy06]

I am the original poster. I commute from Pearland to Houston on 288 every week day and usually at least one weekend day. I have done so since the fall of 1990. I'd be willing to bet that I have driven more miles on 288 than you have. There are often several cops, in somewhat predictable locations. Since HPD got the Charger a month or so ago, there have been quite noticeably more, and out of the cars shooting laser, which they didn't use to do. I'm wondering why the change, because it is definitely a change.

They're just working for the money, and choose to work smart. People tend to go faster on the road especially since it just got smoother. Meanwhile police like to stay there b/c it is well laid out, they can be there most hours of the day and not just in the hot hot afternoon hours. They love to catch a few guys on the SB lanes before having morning coffee!!

[Mr. Smarts]

No, the OP.

It seems like a pretty silly question if you drive down 288 at all with any regularity. There are ALWAYS cops everywhere.

I've been driving 288 daily for the past 8 years. You must be new or don't pay attention. Because over the past few months, the cops have swarmed that area! Between BW8 and 610, you see tons of cops pulling people over. We obviously have too many police in Houston, because they have nothing better to do than give traffic tickets. I can understand 1 or 2 cops patrolling that stretch of highway, but sometimes there are 3-5 cops giving tickets. Give me a break, HPD has terrible response times, they need to take those cars off Park and start driving the streets some more. The crime also occurs on the streets and rarely the highway. They aren't the highway patrol, they are the Houston Police. They need to spread those cops into the neighborhoods and get the crime down. I drive often and it seems that for some reason they isolated into the 288 area.

[editor]

The Chron is reporting that a design firm has been picked for the tolling of 288. $1.2 billion dollar project. No federal money, all local.

It's funny how some people say it's just a concept -- nothing firm, while at the same time Emmett says, "If we don't start now, it just takes too long to get it under way."

[Houston19514]

The Chron is reporting that a design firm has been picked for the tolling of 288. $1.2 billion dollar project. No federal money, all local.

It's funny how some people say it's just a concept -- nothing firm, while at the same time Emmett says, "If we don't start now, it just takes too long to get it under way."

There's not really any conflict there. Emmett is clearly referring to getting underway with the early planning steps, such as the one reported in the article. He is in no way suggesting that we have to start construction now.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Houston19514

[JLWM8609]

I wonder if the project will be a combination of capacity added to the free mainlanes and an addition of toll roads? I was driving down the 288/59 merge, and it's got a few lane balance issues at the interchange at 59. Hopefully they can sort all of that out when the time for construction comes.

[arisegundo]

What's wrong with the South Freeway/Loop interchange?

They could make it not flood every time there's a thunderstorm, for starters.

[kjb434]

Just check the HCTRA website. They give a rundown.

The project will use the large median for SH 288 to place toll lanes similar to I-10.

The tollway will have entrances and exits just like the Katy Toll road. It will terminate just before US 59 with flyovers going into midtown and exits onto the final portion of SH 288.

It will not go all the way to I-45. The purpose it to move people and not cars. This leads to moving commuters. The primary destinations for the toll road will be Beltway 8, Loop 610, Medical Center, then Midtown which will allow traffic to move into downtown.

The Katy Toll road does the same thing with exits at specific points.

[editor]

The project will use the large median for SH 288 to place toll lanes similar to I-10.

Another lost opportunity.

It will not go all the way to I-45. The purpose it to move people and not cars. This leads to moving commuters.

If they really believed this, they'd be thinking rail, not Katy Freeway Part II.

I thought Delay was out of office?

[Trae]

Really. How stupid. Another tollway? Commuter rail is the way to go. Then, you can add another lane to each side of 288.

[barracuda]

I'd really like to avoid more toll roads in Houston. I know they shift some of the financial burden to the drivers who use the roads, but they don't seem to solve any problems related to traffic. Some of the worst traffic in the city is on the Westpark tollway and Beltway 8.

Like Trae posted, a commuter rail would do far more to relieve traffic congestion. And if we really want to charge people for driving on our roads, wouldn't it make more sense to charge the heaviest vehicles and tractor trailers that cause the greatest damage to the roads?

[editor]

I'd really like to avoid more toll roads in Houston. I know they shift some of the financial burden to the drivers who use the roads, but they don't seem to solve any problems related to traffic. Some of the worst traffic in the city is on the Westpark tollway and Beltway 8.

I agree. And the reason this is such a shame is that there's wide open land ready to be turned into rail at the least possible cost. Instead, TXDOT is going to pave it over now and it'll just be more expensive 50 or 60 years from now when all that has to be torn up and replaced with rail anyway.

Like Trae posted, a commuter rail would do far more to relieve traffic congestion. And if we really want to charge people for driving on our roads, wouldn't it make more sense to charge the heaviest vehicles and tractor trailers that cause the greatest damage to the roads?

I think they already do. I think one way is through higher fuel taxes, which is why narrow states that can be crossed without refueling have a kind of special trucker toll tag that bills the drivers when they enter the state.

[JLWM8609]

I agree. And the reason this is such a shame is that there's wide open land ready to be turned into rail at the least possible cost. Instead, TXDOT is going to pave it over now and it'll just be more expensive 50 or 60 years from now when all that has to be torn up and replaced with rail anyway.

SH 288 has been planned with a dual freeway in mind since 1963. Of course, the freeway wasn't built then, but A.C. Kyser, the man in charge of designing Houston's freeways inside of the loop until the mid 70s, realized that the freeway would need to carry a lot of traffic. They weren't planned as toll lanes, but free "express" lanes. Of course, at that time, nobody thought of rail as an alternative, and if they did, they likely thought that the Columbia Tap rail line would do the job of serving the future suburbs to be built along 288. I don't think anyone then knew that the rail line would be torn up in 1985.

[sarahiki]

Another problem I see with a tollway in the middle of 288 is safety... I've seen people fly along Beltway 8 and the Hardy Toll road at break-neck speeds... it's like people figure they've paid for an open road, and dammit, they're going to use it. Especially when there are poor suckers crawling along in the congested free lanes, you really have to stick it to them by going 90 mph in the middle.

[JLWM8609]

Another problem I see with a tollway in the middle of 288 is safety... I've seen people fly along Beltway 8 and the Hardy Toll road at break-neck speeds... it's like people figure they've paid for an open road, and dammit, they're going to use it. Especially when there are poor suckers crawling along in the congested free lanes, you really have to stick it to them by going 90 mph in the middle.

The Harris County Constable will keep tabs on that.

[20thStDad]

I don't think 288 has the volume to reasonably support commuter rail. It's suburbia, not urban center to urban center. I highly doubt all those people driving up 288 in the morning are going to ditch their cars for waiting for a train and then transferring onto buses when they get there. Most of them spend 10-15 minutes just to get to 288 because the freakin idiotic suburban traffic light system and roads are designed and run by morons.

[Justin]

I think they already do. I think one way is through higher fuel taxes, which is why narrow states that can be crossed without refueling have a kind of special trucker toll tag that bills the drivers when they enter the state.

Yep, they do. My mom's boyfriend is an owner/operator and he gripes about having to calculate up the extra fuel taxes.

[barracuda]

I don't think 288 has the volume to reasonably support commuter rail. It's suburbia, not urban center to urban center. I highly doubt all those people driving up 288 in the morning are going to ditch their cars for waiting for a train and then transferring onto buses when they get there. Most of them spend 10-15 minutes just to get to 288 because the freakin idiotic suburban traffic light system and roads are designed and run by morons.

Well, there are several park and ride locations along 288 that always seemed to be full. Seems like they could expand and leverage these for a commuter rail that ties into the existing light rail leading to the TMC and DT.

[CoolBuddy06]

Well, there are several park and ride locations along 288 that always seemed to be full. Seems like they could expand and leverage these for a commuter rail that ties into the existing light rail leading to the TMC and DT.

Several park and ride locations along 288 that always seem to be full? I only know of two locations on FM 518 and Hwy 6. Those are no P&R, they are just carpool-vanpool locations and are not well utilised compared to the number of people living in the area.

A few Metro express in the morning and evening may not be a bad idea to start, but many people here are just not so enthusiastic about commuter stuff.