William P. Hobby Airport

[urban909]

I think it will depend on how much of a dent Southwest dings CONT passenger count.

One thing I've been curious about is what IS the largest plane that can fly out of HOU?

If you are talking about WN, the largest plane that they operate is a 738 (which are configured for ETOPS). If the international terminal is approved, I could see Y4 or CM taking interest.Volaris operates A320's and Copa has E-190's and 737/8's. The longest runway at HOU is 7600 ft., so I would imagine anything larger than a 757 would be hard to operate profitably (due to weight restrictions, fuel, etc).

Edited May 24, 2012 by urban909

[Pleak]

I doubt Copa - they used to be owned or partially owned by Continental and are still pretty chummy with United. Aren't they in Star Alliance now too? I think if anything they would come to IAH and cooperate with United.

[Hartmann]

If you are talking about WN, the largest plane that they operate is a 738 (which are configured for ETOPS). If the international terminal is approved, I could see Y4 or CM taking interest.Volaris operates A320's and Copa has E-190's and 737/8's. The longest runway at HOU is 7600 ft., so I would imagine anything larger than a 757 would be hard to operate profitably (due to weight restrictions, fuel, etc).

There is no way Copa is going to operate out of Hobby. They're ties with United are just too strong (they're even entering the Star Alliance later this year). Plus, they're happy to devote their fleet to Panama City - LatAm routes and let United feed it from IAH. I don't see them ever coming to Houston.

I can see Volaris, VivaAerobus, Allegiant, and maybe Spirit operating out of HOU.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Hartmann

[urban909]

There is no way Copa is going to operate out of Hobby. They're ties with United are just too strong (they're even entering the Star Alliance later this year). Plus, they're happy to devote their fleet to Panama City - LatAm routes and let United feed it from IAH. I don't see them ever coming to Houston.

I can see Volaris, VivaAerobus, Allegiant, and maybe Spirit operating out of HOU.

You are right...I got Interjet and Copa mixed up in my head. Apparently my multi-tasking skills aren't quite working as well as I would like today.

[Andrew Broadfoot]

I think it will depend on how much of a dent Southwest dings CONT passenger count.

One thing I've been curious about is what IS the largest plane that can fly out of HOU?

I've seen both the 767-200 and -300 at Hobby. The -300 parked on the hardstand by Atlantic to take on fuel. -200 parked at Wilson Air. As for gates, I don't think there is enough room with the current configuration.

Oh yeah, I've also seen a C-17 there as well.

[musicman]

It **appears** to be all systems go for Hobby INTERNATIONAL Airport.

"...But several City Hall sources say Parker has scheduled a news conference at the Southwest ticket counter at Hobby Airport."

http://blog.chron.com/houstonpolitics/2012/05/agreement-with-southwest-to-be-announced-tomorrow/

hobby is already international. I've done at least 2 international flights Edited May 30, 2012 by musicman

[mfastx]

hobby is already international. I've done at least 2 international flights

Not commercially.

This would be great for Hobby and the City of Houston. It's ridiculous that people are even giving weight to United's argument. They obviously are just looking out for profits, airlines should be allowed to compete.

[Slick Vik]

City Council has approved a deal to have Southwest Airlinesbuild a $100 million expansion of Hobby Airport to open it to international flights for the first time in more than 40 years.

The 16-1 vote authorizes five international gates and a Federal Inspection Services facility at Hobby. Southwest will pay for the expansion in exchange for control of four gates, an exemption from rent on the newly constructed facilities and a rebate linked to any increased sales at the airport once the airline starts its routes to Mexico and the Caribbean in 2015.

Houston Airport Director Mario Diaz promoted the expansionas having the potential to create 18,000 jobs and inject $1.6 billion a year into the local economy. He also predicted that the “Southwest effect” of lower fares would take hold if the airline were allowed to compete with United Airlines, which with its partners has a near monopoly on Latin American routes out of Bush Intercontinental Airport.

“Today’s historic vote is going to allow the creation of international and federal facilities at Hobby,” Councilwoman Melissa Noriega said.

Read more here:

http://blog.chron.co...anned-for-2015/

Edited June 1, 2012 by sevfiv
entire article posted

[intencity77]

Unconfirmed report from an online airline forum are stating that United Airlines announced to employees today that they will cut IAH capacity by 10%, cut 1300 jobs, cancel the IAH-Auckland route, and will NOT finish the Terminal B expansion at IAH. Again this is unconfirmed. Does anyone know if this information is true or not??

[mfastx]

Unconfirmed report from an online airline forum are stating that United Airlines announced to employees today that they will cut IAH capacity by 10%, cut 1300 jobs, cancel the IAH-Auckland route, and will NOT finish the Terminal B expansion at IAH. Again this is unconfirmed. Does anyone know if this information is true or not??

Ruh-roh

Edited May 30, 2012 by mfastx

[Houston19514]

Unconfirmed report from an online airline forum are stating that United Airlines announced to employees today that they will cut IAH capacity by 10%, cut 1300 jobs, cancel the IAH-Auckland route, and will NOT finish the Terminal B expansion at IAH. Again this is unconfirmed. Does anyone know if this information is true or not??

Doubtful. I would guess they merely repeated their threats to do such things. (i.e., "we may be forced to do x, y, and z). They will do what is most profitable for them, as they would have without the international service at HOU. Making such an announcement now, 2 years before the international service will start at HOU would be tantamount to announcing that United is run by petty, spiteful children who shouldn't be left alone in the house, let alone be running a multi-billion dollar international enterprise.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Houston19514

[samagon]

Unconfirmed report from an online airline forum are stating that United Airlines announced to employees today that they will cut IAH capacity by 10%, cut 1300 jobs, cancel the IAH-Auckland route, and will NOT finish the Terminal B expansion at IAH. Again this is unconfirmed. Does anyone know if this information is true or not??

Any decision they make would simply use the city council decision as a scapegoat for whatever real reason there is for stopping. especially if they did it immediately after the announcement. Even if some flights will become less profitable for them once Hobby goes Int, that isn't the case yet.

Doubtful. I would guess they merely repeated their threats to do such things. (i.e., "we may be forced to do x, y, and z). They will do what is most profitable for them, as they would have without the international service at HOU. Making such an announcement now, 2 years before the international service will start at HOU would be tantamount to announcing that United is run by petty, spiteful children who shouldn't be left alone in the house, let alone be running a multi-billion dollar international enterprise.

well, there's this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/black-pilots-claim-in-discrimination-lawsuit-that-united-offers-few-promotions-to-minorities/2012/05/30/gJQAIg4Q2U_story.html

which leads credence to your last statement, if proven true...

Edited May 30, 2012 by samagon

[Pleak]

Doubtful. I would guess they merely repeated their threats to do such things. (i.e., "we may be forced to do x, y, and z). They will do what is most profitable for them, as they would have without the international service at HOU. Making such an announcement now, 2 years before the international service will start at HOU would be tantamount to announcing that United is run by petty, spiteful children who shouldn't be left alone in the house, let alone be running a multi-billion dollar international enterprise.

Exactly. If they do follow through with this announcement, all it means is they were to make these cuts anyway for other reasons. The vote to allow HOU international flights just gives them a convenient excuse instead of having to come out with the real reasons for the changes. I.e, - the Auckland flight had no demand, or we've lost so many customers/accounts due to our lousy job with merger integration.

If those flights from IAH are making money - they will stay. If not, the 10% reduction was coming anyway which is not a surprise. Most airline mergers reduce capacity despite all the promises made to get approval.

[wxman]

Whether United cuts or not, the demand is still present. Eff United in the bum. Seriously. We don't need em'. If they can't meet the demand, then hopefully another airline will.

[Andrew Broadfoot]

Unconfirmed report from an online airline forum are stating that United Airlines announced to employees today that they will cut IAH capacity by 10%, cut 1300 jobs, cancel the IAH-Auckland route, and will NOT finish the Terminal B expansion at IAH. Again this is unconfirmed. Does anyone know if this information is true or not??

I heard this from two different UA employes today.

[mfastx]

All of the unconfirmed report is apparently correct, save for not finishing the Terminal B expansion. That's still a maybe.

Well United shows its true colors, they are basically giving up before the competition even starts, LOL.

[Houston19514]

All of the unconfirmed report is apparently correct, save for not finishing the Terminal B expansion. That's still a maybe.

Well United shows its true colors, they are basically giving up before the competition even starts, LOL.

Exactly right. What a pathetic, dishonest operation. I am a long-time platinum card holder and (very minor) stockholder with Continental. I am so offended and repulsed by United's behavior in this matter and their overall cluster($&@ of an airline operation that the stock is being dumped; I've taken American's offer of a status transfer; and will be flying Southwest a whole lot more (compared to never prior to the merger).

United is seriously in need of some adult supervision.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Houston19514

[Pleak]

Actually the more I think about Southwest getting to offer international from Hobby and then Smisek throwing a temper tantrum and taking his toy planes (that's all that will be cut anyway - the Saab jump jets etc to places that arguably shouldn't even have air service) and going home, the more I like it. If United truly cuts routes that are needed and make sense financially (See Auckland route for the antithesis of this.) another carrier will come in and sieze the opportunity.

Continental for years neglected IAH to build up their Newark hub - not saying this is a bad thing from the company's perspective - build up to become the largest carrier in the nation's biggest market vs. building up your existing fortress hub. Other carriers noticed that there was unserved demand and we ended up getting Qatar, Emirates, Singapore flights in the last few years. Continental could have stopped this and further cemented their dominance - but they were busy with Newark. So if United really wants to ignore the lucrative business travel that is present and growing in Houston because Southwest is allowed to compete for bargain-hunting beach vacationers, then I think that we might see more flights from better international carriers who are interested.

I think Houston flyers win - more competition for international flights on carriers with better services (especially now that we are at United service levels).

[samagon]

http://www.bloomberg...hts-abroad.html

story on bloomberg, I'm really shocked they are going through with this, specifically for the reasons Pleak states.

Edited May 31, 2012 by samagon

[lockmat]

Beyond these five new gates, what is Hobby's ceiling in terms of expansion? Is it much?

[Andrew Broadfoot]

Actually the more I think about Southwest getting to offer international from Hobby and then Smisek throwing a temper tantrum and taking his toy planes (that's all that will be cut anyway - the Saab jump jets etc to places that arguably shouldn't even have air service) and going home, the more I like it. If United truly cuts routes that are needed and make sense financially (See Auckland route for the antithesis of this.) another carrier will come in and sieze the opportunity.

Continental for years neglected IAH to build up their Newark hub - not saying this is a bad thing from the company's perspective - build up to become the largest carrier in the nation's biggest market vs. building up your existing fortress hub. Other carriers noticed that there was unserved demand and we ended up getting Qatar, Emirates, Singapore flights in the last few years. Continental could have stopped this and further cemented their dominance - but they were busy with Newark. So if United really wants to ignore the lucrative business travel that is present and growing in Houston because Southwest is allowed to compete for bargain-hunting beach vacationers, then I think that we might see more flights from better international carriers who are interested.

I think Houston flyers win - more competition for international flights on carriers with better services (especially now that we are at United service levels).

Well said!

[Subdude]

The fact that they announce layoffs before ground has even broken for the Hobby international terminal amply demonstrates that these actions are for revenge, not competitive pressure. They simply want to punish Houston for deciding against their wishes.

[Simbha]

The fact that they announce layoffs before ground has even broken for the Hobby international terminal amply demonstrates that these actions are for revenge, not competitive pressure. They simply want to punish Houston for deciding against their wishes.

Or, as has been pointed out by others, they were planning to do this anyway - and are now using the Hobby happenings as a scapegoat.

[lockmat]

United gives specific reasons for cuts. I never believed they were doing this because they were throwing a childish hissy fit.

Some of you have asked, “Why so soon, if Southwest does not intend to fly international flights out of HOU until 2015?”

Here’s why: There is a segment of our operation at IAH that is not profitable today. We have operated these flights expecting that future growth will improve the routes and make them profitable. As a result of the city’s decision to develop HOU as a competing international airport, the growth will not occur and, as a result, we will cut unprofitable flying in our schedule now rather than continue to lose money with no expectation of improvement.

http://houston.culturemap.com/newsdetail/06-04-12-united-explains-why-houston-city-council-hobby-expansion-cutting-jobs-now/

[Houston19514]

United gives specific reasons for cuts. I never believed they were doing this because they were throwing a childish hissy fit.

http://houston.cultu...tting-jobs-now/

Subterfuge, my friend.

In other words, "we are incapable of competing and don't even have the creativity to come with a plan to attempt to do so"; If you are a smart stockholder, you'll bail out now while we still have SOME value. If they can't compete against Southwest here, how will they compete against them in Denver, Austin, San Antonio, Los Angeles, etc. etc. etc.?

Wouldn't a rational, aggressive, intelligent business use the intervening 3 years to develop their network and service so they will be able to withstand the coming competition? Truly pathetic.

[KinkaidAlum]

Southwest literally beat the snot out of United in Denver. Southwest has been serving that market for just a few short years and they've totally chipped away at United's market share.

Also, Southwest announced double daily nonstop flights out of Hobby to Indianapolis and a single daily nonstop to Orange County starting in November. Looks for United to stop flying to Rio de Janeiro as a result.

[JJVilla]

Just more bad news to pile on the plate:

http://finance.yahoo...-013013400.html

Southwest literally beat the snot out of United in Denver. Southwest has been serving that market for just a few short years and they've totally chipped away at United's market share.

Also, Southwest announced double daily nonstop flights out of Hobby to Indianapolis and a single daily nonstop to Orange County starting in November. Looks for United to stop flying to Rio de Janeiro as a result.

OC to HOU would be great for me.

[TheNiche]

Just more bad news to pile on the plate:

http://finance.yahoo...-013013400.html

Go figure. That's what they get for keeping such an auspiciously ironic name, is disunity.

[DrLan34]

Terminal B construction from the United Lounge.

Edited June 9, 2012 by DrLan34

[mfastx]

At least they're still working on it, lol.