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William P. Hobby Airport


ricco67

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Just getting to this thread...

I recognize that IAH is a United hub, but they're not the only airline that has international flights to and from the airport. So, isn't there already competition for United in international Houston-based travel?

Admittedly, I don't really know how all of these arrangements work, so could someone explain to me why this is such a big deal?

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Just getting to this thread...

I recognize that IAH is a United hub, but they're not the only airline that has international flights to and from the airport. So, isn't there already competition for United in international Houston-based travel?

Admittedly, I don't really know how all of these arrangements work, so could someone explain to me why this is such a big deal?

It's only big deal to United. Southwest is gonna kick their you-know-what with cheap prices. On their flights originating from Houston, United make most profit per mile on Caribbean, Central and South American destinations. They will lose a big chunk of that slice. Another factor that I think is important but hardly mentioned is that Hobby is closer to majority of Hispanic population in Houston, so even if United were to match SW in price (which I seriously doubt), many people will still prefer to fly out of a closer, smaller Hobby Airport compared to IAH. This seems to me to be the reason why United want SW to bring her proposed international business to IAH. United's 'Keep IAH strong' mantra is just a load of crap.

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Just getting to this thread...

I recognize that IAH is a United hub, but they're not the only airline that has international flights to and from the airport. So, isn't there already competition for United in international Houston-based travel?

Admittedly, I don't really know how all of these arrangements work, so could someone explain to me why this is such a big deal?

A lot of the "competition" for international flights isn't. IAH is a big Star Alliance hub because of United. Most of the Star flights over Atlantic (Luftanhsa, Air Canada, United, etc) are in a protected joint venture arrangement (Just like AA and BA have on NY-London flights). They basically share airplanes and revenues. And then you have code-shares with other Star Alliance partners out of IAH - where there are agreements in place with United. So the level of competition is a lot less than it appears.

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Just getting to this thread...

I recognize that IAH is a United hub, but they're not the only airline that has international flights to and from the airport. So, isn't there already competition for United in international Houston-based travel?

Admittedly, I don't really know how all of these arrangements work, so could someone explain to me why this is such a big deal?

A recap from my blog posts...

http://houstonstrategies.blogspot.com/2012/04/learning-from-fll-vs-mia-for-swahou-vs.html

http://houstonstrategies.blogspot.com/2012/05/debunking-uniteds-anti-hobby-arguments.html

and throwing in a little humor...

http://houstonstrategies.blogspot.com/2012/04/hobby-to-close-iah-turned-over-to.html

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Just getting to this thread...

I recognize that IAH is a United hub, but they're not the only airline that has international flights to and from the airport. So, isn't there already competition for United in international Houston-based travel?

Admittedly, I don't really know how all of these arrangements work, so could someone explain to me why this is such a big deal?

Just getting to this thread...

I recognize that IAH is a United hub, but they're not the only airline that has international flights to and from the airport. So, isn't there already competition for United in international Houston-based travel?

Admittedly, I don't really know how all of these arrangements work, so could someone explain to me why this is such a big deal?

If I'm correct, I believe their beef is also that Southwest wants international flights at Hobby instead of IAH. Not saying they'd be okay with them if it was at IAH instead, but I think that's the crux of their dissatisfaction.

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If I'm correct, I believe their beef is also that Southwest wants international flights at Hobby instead of IAH. Not saying they'd be okay with them if it was at IAH instead, but I think that's the crux of their dissatisfaction.

Nah, that's just a totally disingenous arguement on their part.

"We have no problem with Southwest flying international. Just do it from IAH" they say in most ingratiating tone, knowing full well that Southwest has one of their larger operations in their entire system at Hobby. Which you don't just pickup and move. I'm pretty sure that IAH doesn't have the room for the full Southwest Hobby operation to move over even if Southwest wanted to spend the millions to do so. And Southwest can't just open a new operation at IAH - they need the feed from the large operation they already have at Hobby to support their south of the border push.

United knows this when they made their wonderful offer to share IAH (as if it's their airport anyway). But it's one more part of their PR campaign to try to make themselves look like the poor picked on hometown carrier beaten instead of the carrier that's actually trying to preserve their fortress hub and prevent any meaningful competition on their most lucrative routes.

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Nah, that's just a totally disingenous arguement on their part.

"We have no problem with Southwest flying international. Just do it from IAH" they say in most ingratiating tone, knowing full well that Southwest has one of their larger operations in their entire system at Hobby. Which you don't just pickup and move. I'm pretty sure that IAH doesn't have the room for the full Southwest Hobby operation to move over even if Southwest wanted to spend the millions to do so. And Southwest can't just open a new operation at IAH - they need the feed from the large operation they already have at Hobby to support their south of the border push.

United knows this when they made their wonderful offer to share IAH (as if it's their airport anyway). But it's one more part of their PR campaign to try to make themselves look like the poor picked on hometown carrier beaten instead of the carrier that's actually trying to preserve their fortress hub and prevent any meaningful competition on their most lucrative routes.

Exactly right. That is why I have said in the past that I would LOVE it if there was a way Southwest could call United's bluff and announce they are moving their operation to United and will fly international flights from a newly-expanded Terminal A, with a new FIS at Terminal A. How much fun would it be to watch United rework their arguments to justify their opposition to THAT? LOL

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An article supporting various points mentioned here:

Cincinnati, Ohio and Houston/ Bush had the highest air fare averages at $504 and $494, respectively.

While Long Beach finished second to Atlantic City, it closed the gap, as the East Coast airport's average flight cost rose from $167 to $189 over the course of the quarter. Las Vegas was third at $267

http://www.presstele...urce=rss_viewed

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United and Star have a TON of competition across the Atlantic out of IAH. They compete with British Airways, KLM Royal Dutch, Air France, Qatar, and Emirates.

Where United has almost virtually no competition is to points South out of Houston.

AeroMexico only flies to Mexico City and United kills them on frequency. No other airline flies between Houston and Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Guadalajara, Leon/Guanajuato, Merida, Cozumel, Tampico, Caracas, Panama City, Managua, Bogota, Quito, Lima, San Jose, San Juan, Montego Bay, etc...

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United and Star have a TON of competition across the Atlantic out of IAH. They compete with British Airways, KLM Royal Dutch, Air France, Qatar, and Emirates.

Where United has almost virtually no competition is to points South out of Houston.

AeroMexico only flies to Mexico City and United kills them on frequency. No other airline flies between Houston and Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Guadalajara, Leon/Guanajuato, Merida, Cozumel, Tampico, Caracas, Panama City, Managua, Bogota, Quito, Lima, San Jose, San Juan, Montego Bay, etc...

Right. Almost everywhere a competitor flies over the Atlantic - United also flies - Amsterdam, London, Paris. United also does Frankfurt and Lagos which their competitors don't. United's biggest gap over the Atlantic is to the Middle East.

The lock on Mexico and Central America is exactly where Southwest would be flying. So that is why United is fighting so hard.

This probably won't change a bit the price of a ticket to London. But it will change the price of one to Cancun.

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http://abclocal.go.c...ocal&id=8672739

Mayor, Southwest Airlines agree on Hobby Airport expansion

"United said earlier this month it might cancel $700 million in improvements to Terminal B at IAH and it might drop some service from Houston."

They are throwing a temper-tantrum.

I've had my kids tell me they hate me and want to run away from home. For some reason - they are still there.

United will cut routes if they are losing money on them. (and sometimes even then they won't for network reasons). Houston is one of their money-makers. They will stay.

And if they don't - in the last couple of years, IAH has added flights from Emirates, Qatar, Singapore and cargo flights from Cathay, Korean and Luftahnsa. Turkish Airlines is also making noises about coming to IAH. Any of these would be a better flight than United.

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They are throwing a temper-tantrum.

I've had my kids tell me they hate me and want to run away from home. For some reason - they are still there.

United will cut routes if they are losing money on them. (and sometimes even then they won't for network reasons). Houston is one of their money-makers. They will stay.

And if they don't - in the last couple of years, IAH has added flights from Emirates, Qatar, Singapore and cargo flights from Cathay, Korean and Luftahnsa. Turkish Airlines is also making noises about coming to IAH. Any of these would be a better flight than United.

indeed, if United were to step away from flights at IAH, others would step in REALLY fast to pick them up.

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Today's announcement is great news. Even better was the fact that at least 7, and possibly 9 council members were at the announcement press conference. (I think 8 were willing to join the Mayor at the podium at the end of the press conference.) Looks very good for approval of this deal at next week's council meeting.

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Agree, I'm all for Southwest going international from Hobby. Great to have some competition on flights to Latin America.

And in general I'm excited to see Southwest expanding and going international. Can't wait to see the 727's in Southwest colors, that'll be interesting.

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Agree, I'm all for Southwest going international from Hobby. Great to have some competition on flights to Latin America.

And in general I'm excited to see Southwest expanding and going international. Can't wait to see the 727's in Southwest colors, that'll be interesting.

Who's flying 727s around? I'd love to see that period.

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http://abclocal.go.c...ocal&id=8672739

Mayor, Southwest Airlines agree on Hobby Airport expansion

"United said earlier this month it might cancel $700 million in improvements to Terminal B at IAH and it might drop some service from Houston."

Yeah, I read that as well. Their game plan seems to be if they can't convince otherwise, resort to bullying. Besides, what is the connection with Terminal B and international flights?

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Yeah, I read that as well. Their game plan seems to be if they can't convince otherwise, resort to bullying. Besides, what is the connection with Terminal B and international flights?

The Terminal B expansion is/was(?) to include a new FIS facility to accommodate future international growth by Continental, then United. United is saying that since the plans and funding were based on the understanding that IAH would be the only international facility, they will have to scale back the expansion in light of the new reality. Hard to argue with this particular point... Would you still contribute the same $700M+ to a project when the landscape/original assumptions have changed? At the very least, they will probably delay that part of the expansion until they have a better idea how their hub dynamics are affected by a new intl facility across town. It remains to be seen what, if any, service United cuts at IAH when the Hobby expansion is inevitably approved. The timing of the Denver-Tokyo annoucement was very interesting. Is this now the first 787 route? It's not scheduled until next March, but it's already showing in their schedule and out for sale, while Houston-Auckland still hasn't been loaded.

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http://www.fly2houst...919712/0/83280/

Details about the agreement/plans...

When finished, the City will own the improvements debt free. In return for its investment, SWA will have preferential scheduling rights and pay no rent for its use of four of the five new international gates, and will also pay no rent for its use of the customs facility. The fifth additional gate and the customs facility will be available for use by all other airlines at Hobby, but unlike SWA, the other airlines will pay rent.
City Council consideration is expected May 30, 2012. Construction is planned for the spring of 2013. In the interim, the City will work closely with SWA and Washington to obtain the necessary federal approvals as well as a commitment for an adequate number of customs and border patrol agents at both of our airports.
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Let me know if I am wrong but these are my thoughts on prices.

SWA presence will bring United prices down but for the most part they won't be lower than United. They will be the same.

My thinking is based off domestic experience. The last handful of domestic flights I have taken I have compared SWA to United and the prices were the same. Will international flights do the same?

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The Terminal B expansion is/was(?) to include a new FIS facility to accommodate future international growth by Continental, then United. United is saying that since the plans and funding were based on the understanding that IAH would be the only international facility, they will have to scale back the expansion in light of the new reality. Hard to argue with this particular point... Would you still contribute the same $700M+ to a project when the landscape/original assumptions have changed? At the very least, they will probably delay that part of the expansion until they have a better idea how their hub dynamics are affected by a new intl facility across town. It remains to be seen what, if any, service United cuts at IAH when the Hobby expansion is inevitably approved. The timing of the Denver-Tokyo annoucement was very interesting. Is this now the first 787 route? It's not scheduled until next March, but it's already showing in their schedule and out for sale, while Houston-Auckland still hasn't been loaded.

Yes, I believe Terminal B was to include a FIS facility. It's also United's regional jet facility. If they delay that part of the expansion - what has been hurt - you don't get to ride a regional jet to Mexico? Instead you have to ride a larger jet (737 - all Southwest flies once they ditch the 717) - doesn't sound like too bad of a trade-off to me.

And if we lost the Houston-Auckland route - it wasn't because of this - that would be United using that as a cheap excuse. It's because the route would not make money. It's always been thought to be a marginal route - that's why it had to wait for the 787 to arrive - any other airplane that had the legs to fly the route would be too large - and empty seats flying to the other side of the world = money losing route.

If the Auckland route does not appear - it's definately not due to Southwest - I don't think they would be flying a 737 there with 4 or 5 stops anytime soon. And if it is such a critical route that people are clamouring for - Air New Zealand has the planes to fly it and there service would be a lot better than United.

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