Jump to content

CVS at Main and Elgin


UrbaNerd

Recommended Posts

I don't shop at CVS becuase they have terrible customer service. They could learn a thing or two from Walgreens.

I don't go to CVS because they ask if you have a CVS card. Yeah like I need another card in my wallet to go with the Kroger, Randalls, Vallero coffee card..........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So which is it? You didn't make it up but thought you did...dude? :wacko:

You just did it again. :wacko::wacko::wacko::wacko::wacko:

If there is anyone out there that actually buys into nmainguy's antics, please let me know now. Otherwise I'm just going to give up on him and drop this topic as he alone simply isn't worth my time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You just did it again. :wacko::wacko::wacko::wacko::wacko:

If there is anyone out there that actually buys into nmainguy's antics, please let me know now. Otherwise I'm just going to give up on him and drop this topic as he alone simply isn't worth my time.

:lol: I love the way you weasel out of being confronted with your own words. :lol:

I don't go to CVS because they ask if you have a CVS card. Yeah like I need another card in my wallet to go with the Kroger, Randalls, Vallero coffee card..........

I hear you west, but as opposed to my Kroger card, I actually get $$ back on my CVS card via coupons and actual cash back. It's a free card and I'm getting an occasional break so what the hey.

B)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So which is it? You didn't make it up but thought you did...dude? :wacko:

Look, if you're just going to attack other members and engage in little flame wars, then take it to PM so the rest of us don't have to read it. :angry2::angry2:

Back on topic, you can't really expect that CVS will build a pedestrian-oriented store out of the goodness of their hearts. As was pointed out, unless there are compatible design guidelines, a strong neighborhood association, or a committed developer, then owners will build what they want. As for Midtown, at this point I think it is probably too late to make it into a cohesive pedestrian/"urban" neighborhood. It was never planned that way to begin with, and the above elements are all missing. There's no denying that Midtown is a lot better than it used to be, but maybe not all that it could have been.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Block in Midtown sold

More than two years after Metro's light rail line took its maiden voyage, development along the 7.5-mile route has been slow to materialize, some have said. Others have argued that point, explaining that big changes take time.

A lot of the transformation so far has taken place in Midtown, where a prime block of land just sold at the corner of Main and Elgin.

A CVS Pharmacy will be built on the southeast corner, according to Marshall Davidson of Cushman & Wakefield,

who was involved in the land sale.

This will be CVS's second store in Midtown. The pharmacy chain already operates an outlet on Gray in the neighborhood's northern end.

Davidson wouldn't disclose the sales price, but properties in the area are being marketed for upwards of $50 per square foot.

"Inevitably, there's going to be a premium paid for properties on that rail line," he said.

Monte L. Tinkham Properties was also involved in the transaction.

nancy.sarnoff@chron.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What are the parking requirements for that area?

I'm sure they are the same as other neighborhoods, one space per X amount of retail square footage.

CVS is supposed to go on the SE corner. They don't need the whole block, do they? How much of the other Midtown block did they use? I know it runs across the entire front on Gray, but how far back?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is lots to agree with on this thread from all sides.

1. I agree with WesternGulf's notion that developments such as "the rumored" design of the CVS would seem to work against the overall purpose of METRO Rail and its Main Street alignment. What's worse is that having the back of the store FACING Main Street seems like a horrible design strategy. Even pedestrians--present and future--are more likely to patronize you if they have access. Turning your back to pedestrians who are likely to be walking up and down Main Street would seem to tell them they're not welcome.

2. The move by CVS on the property is still a positive for Midtown overall. It suggests that there's a burgeoning market and that the properties are marketable on many fronts. You build a neighborhood of Midtown's size through a variety of approaches. However, regardless of approach, design sensibility and branding, you have to move on the land in question. Inactivity is the most eggregious of crimes in the fight to restore a neighborhood.

3. The Midtown Association really should become more of a voice in these types of developments. CVS and their ilk don't build their stores of certain designs just to appease the sensibilities of people who aren't likely to patronize their stores anyway. However, they do understand the amount of good marketing they can get out of reaching consensus with community activists. It may be a bit of pain in the arse but at the end of the day, working with this vocal group will pay off more than if they shrugged them off.

4. The most visiual signs of decay and abandonment in Midtown can be found between Travis and San Jacinto from about Elgin up to roughly McGowen. We'll disagree with the design on some projects and be absolutely giddy over others but the main focus is to help Midtown realize a full blown recovery. Having an urban design in place that's gutted is more of a shame than having something that is not as urbanely considered but is prosperous and serves a prominent need/interest in the community. In other words, the former speaks to the viability of the community while the other speaks to a fractured past.

5. I'd be more upset with Camden and their failure to move on the Superblock than I would about the preponderance of another suburban style CVS. The former has far more of an opportunity to affect the urban scale of Midtown than CVS' second store in the area. But that's just my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The same people who make fun of the Big Dig today are likely to have made fun of...

The Houston Ship Channel

The Texas Medical Center

NASA

IAH

There are some people that will NEVER support funding for the greater public good. There are also others who think the market should control EVERYTHING. Thankfully, I am not one of those people.

Trust me, while people here hated the Big Dig while it was being built, they are LOVING it now. It has made Boston 100% better and it was a pretty darn nice city to begin with.

Additionally, since when did Texans become such whimps?

I didn't realize the sun and humidty where so much to bare. Maybe you should hoof it on up to New England?

Well, I usually agree with you - but on this topic - not so much. I'm sure the people of Massachusetts really are loving that project... especially considering the deal they got out of it! Billions and billions over budget... and with the rest of the United States there to bail them out... sweet! Good for Boston. Meanwhile, we have to pay for the initial portion of our light rail system out of our own pockets... which no other city in America has had to bear. Soooo, Boston gets rewarded for ineptitude... Houston gets screwed every step of the way in trying to expand its transportation options. Unbelievable... I know, I know - part of the blame goes to our representatives in Congress - but I throw a lot of blame at Washington for not monitoring and correcting the debacle that was the Big Dig before it got so very out of hand. Anyway, if you have chosen Boston as home, good for you - it is a great town. It sounds as if development patterns and the planning strategy there are right up your alley. As Mayor White said last year, if Houston isn't for you, you need to vote with your feet and go elsewhere and find a place that is more to your liking (I couldn't believe he said that, but I heard it with my own ears).

While I am not happy one bit about this CVS project on Main, I'm not feeling the outrage. I won't shop there... simple as that. Its not in my neighborhood... and while I don't mean to sound sublime about it... this is not surprising - Midtown seems to be losing a lot of momentum. I blame the city... I blame speculators (sorry, but I find it hard to listen to Midtown advocates / developers dissing a CVS when land speculators are asking ridiculous amounts for land in the area - and are in fact choking out residential growth)... I blame Greyhound... I blame transients... but all the blame in the world doesn't change a thing. Until Houston's majority really gives a flip about land use planning, smart growth, etc... we'll be hearing about lots of development like this. It is what it is.

Texans aren't whimps. Either are New Englanders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I usually agree with you - but on this topic - not so much. I'm sure the people of Massachusetts really are loving that project... especially considering the deal they got out of it! Billions and billions over budget... and with the rest of the United States there to bail them out... sweet! Good for Boston. Meanwhile, we have to pay for the initial portion of our light rail system out of our own pockets... which no other city in America has had to bear. Soooo, Boston gets rewarded for ineptitude... Houston gets screwed every step of the way in trying to expand its transportation options. Unbelievable... I know, I know - part of the blame goes to our representatives in Congress - but I throw a lot of blame at Washington for not monitoring and correcting the debacle that was the Big Dig before it got so very out of hand. Anyway, if you have chosen Boston as home, good for you - it is a great town. It sounds as if development patterns and the planning strategy there are right up your alley. As Mayor White said last year, if Houston isn't for you, you need to vote with your feet and go elsewhere and find a place that is more to your liking (I couldn't believe he said that, but I heard it with my own ears).

While I am not happy one bit about this CVS project on Main, I'm not feeling the outrage. I won't shop there... simple as that. Its not in my neighborhood... and while I don't mean to sound sublime about it... this is not surprising - Midtown seems to be losing a lot of momentum. I blame the city... I blame speculators (sorry, but I find it hard to listen to Midtown advocates / developers dissing a CVS when land speculators are asking ridiculous amounts for land in the area - and are in fact choking out residential growth)... I blame Greyhound... I blame transients... but all the blame in the world doesn't change a thing. Until Houston's majority really gives a flip about land use planning, smart growth, etc... we'll be hearing about lots of development like this. It is what it is.

Texans aren't whimps. Either are New Englanders.

Good post. I especially agree about the speculators.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I blame speculators (sorry, but I find it hard to listen to Midtown advocates / developers dissing a CVS when land speculators are asking ridiculous amounts for land in the area - and are in fact choking out residential growth)...

you are absolutely correct; however, its their business. if houston had zoning, land planning, etc., the speculators wouldn't have snapped up the land with zero intention to develop it. while not pointing my finger at anyone in particular, it doesn't matter what they say their inention is to an eventual surrounding development. we are only going to allow smart growth, an urban feel, pedestrian friendly, etc. as taxes increase and prices increase due to a shrinking supply of available land, the money becomes too difficult to pass up.

its sad but as you said, its houston. take it or leave it :huh:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FirstnGoal-

Good post. I totally understand where you are coming from.

That said, there is a problem in Houston and Texas. The Chronicle just had a report on it in this past week. There is a brain drain. High school graduation rates are horrible. Test scores are worse. The number of college graduates in Houston lags way behind most other cities. The state seems intent on not changing the school system or creating more high quality public universities. Combine those things with a horrible national reputation for bad schools, bad pollution, low quality of life issues, and violence, and you've got yourself a problem.

I think that's why I care so much about the larger quality of life issues that are taking place in Houston right now. It's also why I get so frustrated when I see the Katy Freeway project advance so damn easily while the light rail gets turned into a glorified bus service. Or why I get so angry every time I read about another sprawling 15,000 acre master-planned community on the exurban fringes of the metro region. It's also why I sweat the smaller stuff like a suburban CVS being built not just in Midtown but also on a visible corner of Montrose Blvd, on Waugh, in West U, etc...Sure, they can be replaced at a later date. But, that in of itself is a waste. Why aren't Houstonians more worried about building quality structures that will stand the test of time?

Of course, I am still encouraged by the Edge, the Pavilions, the Park Tower, the expansion of the Post Midtown property, the proposed CitiPlace nearby by Farb and the Collective if it ever gets off the ground.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a brain drain.

I know this is how you feel, but show me some stats. And technically a brain drain is when educated people leave. And accoring to you there are not that many educated people in Houston.

Also, what about recent articles of people fleeing the NE and West?

Edited by MidtownCoog
Link to comment
Share on other sites

there may be some brain drain going on, but we sure aren't up there as far as education goes

business journal came up with "city smarts ratings" (i know how much we love those), but houston is 38 out of 53 - from analysis of census data.

http://www.bizjournals.com/specials/pages/15.html

almost 29.59% with no HS, 20.42% with a HS diploma or GED, 3.95% with some college, 17.30% with bachelors, and 9.68% with a graduate /professional degree (out of 1201154 adults).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only 27% of adults over the age of 25 have a bachelor's degree or higher in Houston. On the opposite side of the spectrum, nearly 30% are high school drop outs.

That's a problem.

It's especially problematic when compared to other cities like Boston (36% degreed/21% high school drop outs), Seattle (47% degreed/11% dropout), San Fran (45% degreed/19% dropout), Washington (39% degreed/22% dropout), Denver (34% degreed/21% dropout), Minneapolis (37% degreed/15% dropout), and Atlanta (35% degreed/23% dropout).

Houston is one of just 4 large cities that has more high school drop outs than college grads. The situation is expected to worsen. According to the National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education, "if current policies continue unchanged, the Texas workforce of 2020 is going to be less educated than today's workforce. As a result, the state's per capita income will not just stagnate, it will actually drop by 5%."

The median household income in Houston is already over $5,000 less than the national average. A 5% drop would equate to a loss of $1,831 per year. That's a steady chunk of change!

The most recent study from the Department of Justice shows that over 68% of prisoners have a GED or less. Only 2.7% are college grads. A lack of education is the most obvious way to predict likely criminal behavior. Texas prisons are already overcrowded. Can you do the math?

Going further, here are the states with the lowest levels of high school graduation rates; Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Texas, and West Virginia. Notice that all of them are RED states. Considering the fact that minority and urban rates for high school drop outs are higher, this should alarm folks in the large cities in the states listed above.

According to the US Census Bureau, here's the wage earning breakdown according to educational levels

no high school $18,900-23,400

high school $25,900-30,400

some college $31,200-36,800

associate's $33,000-38,200

bachelor's $45,400-52,200

master's $54,500-62,300

professional $99,300-109,600

doctoral $81,400-89,400

It's for reasons like these that I continue to lobby for increased educational funding in Texas. It's why you (midtowncoog) and I agree on the importance of tier one funding for the U of Houston.

In order for Houston to compete, we need to increase our numbers of local college graduates. And yeah, there is a brain drain coming out of Houston. Rice is too small and lacks too many programs to make a large impact on our city. If someone in Houston wants to go to a top notch (perception) law school or biz school, they are still likely to look towards Austin, Stanford, Ivies, Duke, Vandy, Cal schools, Chicago, Northwestern, etc...and many don't move back despite their intentions.

Edited by KinkaidAlum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why aren't Houstonians more worried about building quality structures that will stand the test of time?

Those buildings cost more. The cost doesn't outweigh the benefits as far as the aggregate population of users of those buildings are concerned...otherwise, we'd pay for them.

According to the US Census Bureau, here's the wage earning breakdown according to educational levels

no high school $18,900-23,400

high school $25,900-30,400

some college $31,200-36,800

associate's $33,000-38,200

bachelor's $45,400-52,200

master's $54,500-62,300

professional $99,300-109,600

doctoral $81,400-89,400

What precisely do these ranges signify? The variance among the sampled population had to have been very high (especially if they sampled all age ranges), but these ranges are actually pretty slim, all things considered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The median household income in Houston is already over $5,000 less than the national average.

To steal a quote, "lies, damn lies, and statistics". How does this correspond to the cost of living and housing in particular? That $5K might just go up-in-smoke. That's why I don't care for stats.

I do agree the high school dropouts are a problem. A problem that starts at home with lousy parents.

But none of this is CVS's problem. I still blame COH for the deconstruction of Main St. I remember when this lot was packed with restaurant patrons befort light rail.

And earlier you mentioned that Houstonians are wimps becuase we don't have outdoor markets or choose to walk, etc becuase it's too hot.

Try walking to work in a suit for a business meeting. If you manage to dry out before your meeting, you'll still smell like a street bum. Not exactly the way we choose to do business down here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for Midtown, at this point I think it is probably too late to make it into a cohesive pedestrian/"urban" neighborhood. It was never planned that way to begin with, and the above elements are all missing. There's no denying that Midtown is a lot better than it used to be, but maybe not all that it could have been.

I have to agree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When it comes to education rates, I think you need to include the whole metro area. Also wouldn't cities with a high immigration rate, like Houston or L.A. have a lower number of educated people. The cities with a higher college edu. number do not have almost half their population as first or second generation mexican.

Their sure has been a lot of crying on here later. Some of you are trying to compare Dallas's best freeway stretch to the south loop or another cities project that is 10 years old to a Houston project that has been on the board for a year. Houston has many great things going on, I can think of over 12 cranes that are up right now, with many more to rise over the next 6 months. To many of your peepee's hurt. Lets try to focus on the many great things from the 88,000 new jobs we have to the great new parks etc...

Edited by Ethanra
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There might be some hope with this particular CVS. We'll have to see but they could end up orienting it more towards Main St. As for momentum in Midtown, I kind of agree but time will tell. While the hype is pretty much gone, the area could see some cool projects in the near future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Block in Midtown sold

More than two years after Metro's light rail line took its maiden voyage, development along the 7.5-mile route has been slow to materialize, some have said. Others have argued that point, explaining that big changes take time.

A lot of the transformation so far has taken place in Midtown, where a prime block of land just sold at the corner of Main and Elgin.

A CVS Pharmacy will be built on the southeast corner, according to Marshall Davidson of Cushman & Wakefield,

who was involved in the land sale.

This will be CVS's second store in Midtown. The pharmacy chain already operates an outlet on Gray in the neighborhood's northern end.

Davidson wouldn't disclose the sales price, but properties in the area are being marketed for upwards of $50 per square foot.

"Inevitably, there's going to be a premium paid for properties on that rail line," he said.

Monte L. Tinkham Properties was also involved in the transaction.

nancy.sarnoff@chron.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest danax

Duplicate topic, "CVS to open in Midtown, Main & Elgin", merged with existing topic.

This is disappointing but the land was available and no one else snatched it up.

As Midtown moves farther and farther away from its last incarnation as Skidtown, I suppose we should expect these "normal" businesses to continue to get it on the population expansion in the area.

As mentioned in other posts, my main beef is that they cut and paste the same old design without trying to help establish the "urban" feel in Midtown with a cool design. They could win over a lot of haters if they showed a little class and did just that, even at "risk" of a lesser bottom line somehow.

Here's hoping that the place ends up looking cutting-edge... :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • The title was changed to CVS at Main and Elgin

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...