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There is an new community of homes that have been built on Yale between Tidwell and Parker, on the west side of the road. This community is gated, built on top of an old horse pasture, and was completed 3 or 4 years ago. I can't remember the name of it, but Rosamond dead ends into the side of it across Yale. That's been all the new major development that area has seen since the original neighborhoods around it were built in the mid 50s.

I agree with you Fortune. The new development down by Barkwood is quite nice, but it's part of the "pocket development" that I fear will occur below Crosstimbers. Inside of the front gate is swell, outside of it is produces a nightly collection of wandering drunks, drugs deals, and those collecting money from whomever they can to get a piece of the drug dealing action going on nearby. It's no wonder San Julio and the Kingdom Hall have large gates surrounding them.

If the new construction does not meander across Crosstimbers, then there's going to be issues. The area north of Crosstimbers and south of Tidwell is a high crime area, likely moreso than the part of IH south of Crosstimbers. North of that is Parkway, which we've discussed, and it's really no picnic either.

Between Tidwell and Parker, Stuebner Airline and 45, is the pocket of 50s built one story 3 bedroom homes that still maintain a fair number of older longtime homeowners that have maintained the area as a mostly quiet spot where vigilance is king and crime is relatively low. My wife and I lived there for almost 20 years and thankfully only had one issue where a stolen car was dumped in our driveway.

Edited by Purpledevil
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There is an new community of homes that have been built on Yale between Tidwell and Parker, on the west side of the road. This community is gated, built on top of an old horse pasture, and was completed 3 or 4 years ago. I can't remember the name of it, but Rosamond dead ends into the side of it across Yale. That's been all the new major development that area has seen since the original neighborhoods around it were built in the mid 50s.

That is actually the development I was talking about built by Mirador. I believe it's called Yale Park Village. The 5 acres directly south of this development and the 5 acres directly SW of this are currently both on the market listed at $500,000 each.

Edited by Fortune
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Gotcha. Didn't know who developed it, but yeah, Yale Park Village does sound right. The property that you speak of for $500k on Yale, south adjacent to YPV has been on the market for some time now. I've had my eye on it for a long time, as whoever buys it has a big surprise for them sitting in the garage. There is an old 50s model Chrysler sitting underneath all the junk packed on top of it. We moved into Suburban Terrace, two blocks north of this property, back in 1989.

The house there next to the Mirador development had an old couple living in it back then, and the old man would leave the garage door open while he mowed the property. The car was stored in there even then, never moved. Just saw someone mowing down the property a couple of months ago and for the first time in probably many years, lo and behold the door was open and there sat the tail end of the old car peering out from under the pile. I'd love to make an offer on that car, if anyone ever buys the house.

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Thanks for the heads up, Fortune. I'll be on the lookout for activity around the house. I really am serious about that car. I'll take my truck and a towbar down there and bring it home tonight....much to the chagrin of the Mrs., I'm sure, lol.

I hadn't seen any "Sale Pending" attachments to the sign, and I was just passing there Saturday morning. Do you have any association with the process, Fortune? Maybe be willing to put a bug in the right ear that I will gladly clear the car out of the garage and pay a fair price for it, as opposed to sending it across the scales for next to nothing?

I'd be happy to send a "finder's fee" your way for the trouble.

The house is a reminder of just how far out in the sticks that part of Yale was when it was built. The property goes back, I believe, to where Millerview would come through, if it had ever been connected. That's the end of YPV as well, so maybe a second community going in next door?

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@Purpledevil here is the contact info for the listing agent and the selling agent. Im not sure who will take possession of the car the current owner or the new owner. I would just reach out to the agents and get them to ask their clients.

 

Ariene Gilmorea- agilmore@heritagetexas.com (713) 898-8458

 

Micheal Silva- michael@thereynagroup.com (713) 725-8748

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I had not been through IH in recent memory and could not resist taking a drive through there this weekend.  To quote Gertrude Stein (and in a totally different context), there is no "there" there.  Almost no commercial development, except for churches.  Probably an even split between vacant lots and lots that are occupied.  Definitely a popular spot to dump your old tires.  It was hot, so very few people were out and about.  Last time I went through, I definitely remembered seeing a pretty rough group of guys who were definitely dealing on N. Main.  Lots are generally small.  3-4000 sq ft.  A lot of streets are just a touch above an alley.  I am not sure you could even get around a car parked on the street. 

I am very interested to see what kind of product Sullivan comes up with for this part of town.  I do not see anyone paying more that $300k to be a pioneer in this area.  I think @$200-250k is about the market that would be willing to take on this area, exchanging the benefits of being closer to town with all the many burdens.  Anyone with $350k+ can afford to do much better and would not get a "more bang for your buck" by being a pioneer in this area.  There are still too many big lots in Shady Acres, Sunset Heights and other parts of the "Greater Heights" area (especially the de-industrialization out near the W. Loop were Hines is clearing 47 acres for their Somerset Green development) to expect IH to get any kind of real momentum in the next 5-10 years. 

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I drove through there the other night... it wasn't that bad.  I would say it isn't any worse than brookesmith was 7-8 years ago.  I'm really looking at buying now.

 

I do believe that south of the railroad tracks will be the area to gentrify first though.

 

I would say it is worse that Brookesmith 7-8 years ago.  Too many vacant lots and vacant houses.  Too many easy spots for people selling/doing drugs to keep out of sight.  Brookesmith's housing stock was pretty much in tact.  Residents were just mostly lower income.  A few too many pitbulls running loose and an occasional crack house, but most everyone was working and looking out for each other and the neighborhood.  IH has a third-world quality to the poverty.  A lot of people are just beyond struggling and are barely surviving.

 

It will gentrify, but it will take time.  If you can keep your money locked up in land up there for 7-10 years and use the cost of carry to write down other gains, you might hit it big.  But, there are so many other parts of town that are ahead of the line for gentrification (East, 5th/3rd ward) and transition from industrial to residential (1st ward, industrial area out by 610 and Old katy, Hardy Yards, Halliburton), that IH might be the ugly duckling for a while as other areas attract attention first.

 

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I agree with you SilverJK, south of the track will gentrify first and it will continue to spread from there. However if you are thinking of buying you may want to start looking and you have to move fast because my experience is there are multiple contracts coming in as these properties come on the market. Especially the ones south of the track. They are getting contracts on them within days.

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I would say it is worse that Brookesmith 7-8 years ago.  Too many vacant lots and vacant houses.  Too many easy spots for people selling/doing drugs to keep out of sight.  Brookesmith's housing stock was pretty much in tact.  Residents were just mostly lower income.  A few too many pitbulls running loose and an occasional crack house, but most everyone was working and looking out for each other and the neighborhood.  IH has a third-world quality to the poverty.  A lot of people are just beyond struggling and are barely surviving.

 

 

I was unaware you were around 7-8 years ago... the rest of this paragraph pretty much describes brookesmith 8 years ago.  I'll probably buy an IH property (or 2) by Spring. 

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I was unaware you were around 7-8 years ago... the rest of this paragraph pretty much describes brookesmith 8 years ago.  I'll probably buy an IH property (or 2) by Spring. 

 

You are right.  I am only 8 years old.  Or, I mean, you are right that when I lived 2 miles from the Heights for five years before moving to the Heights I never ventured north of I-10 and could not possibly be able to make the simple observation that one neighborhood is filled with vacant lots while another was not. 

 

If Houston's development trajectory stays constant, you will do well in IH, but it will take at least 5 years before any solid appreciation is seen.  If there is a downturn or if the market flattens out, you will be lucky to find anyone who will buy. 

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  • 5 months later...

http://thezeroenergyhome.com/#news

 

These folks are supposed to be building their energy efficient homes in Independence Heights.  Price point is supposed to be in the upper 100k to mid 200k.  If it ever gets going (have not seen much since the initial media blitz), this kind of project would have a better chance at getting a transition going in Independence Heights than what Sullivan is trying to build.  I just don't see many people who can afford the $300k price range going for a neighborhood that is as beat up as Independence Heights is.  To make matters worse, HISD has been slow walking the demolition of all the homes they bought up by the high school, making a couple of blocks by the school a vagrant/crackhead paradise.  Of course, HISD will eventually get the demos done and build a new high school.  But with the market flattening out, I still do not see any big gains in this area for the next 5-10 years.  This area reminds me of Cottage Grove around 2000.  People were just beginning to venture into the neighborhood at that time.  But Cottage Grove is a better location and has larger lots to build townhome clusters.  Lots in Independence Heights are mostly small.  So, it will be a longer and harder haul to turn around the neighborhood.  

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  • 1 year later...

I had completely forgotten about this thread, but stuu, you sure are right. Late last year, after my wife passed away, I sold our home in Camden Park and moved back to our first owned house here in Parkway.

There isn't a single individual in here, including you good sir, capable of pulling the wool over this poster's eyes. I'm living in the thick of it, and the reality is, anyone that buys up these new developments in Studewood had better have tough skin, and a wife and kids that aren't squeamish. You're going to have an entire area north of Crosstimbers as your neighboring community and what's currently going on up here will really make your hairs curl, if you're not accustomed to it. Apparently, the crack dealers, meth heads, and street walkers that once graced the areas around Booker T. have suddenly found their way up here between Parker and Barbecue Inn. 

You ought to just see the Town Inn and the adjacent Chevron station at Rosamond and 45 at night these days. The hookers line up so you can even compare the merchandise. How about the dope deals in the McDonald's parking lot? Would you like fries with that? Ask Carla about her Family Dollar being robbed almost weekly. Want to see Texas style gambling? Visit the 20+ "patrons" loitering around Parker Food Mart shooting dice, swilling 40's, and throwing punches and empty beer bottles at each other. If you want even bang for your buck, post yourself up in the Shell parking lot at Parker & North Freeway after dark. The traffic between it and the Symphony Inn is bumper to bumper, and it isn't just the cars I'm talking about. Grab a beer (and a sidearm for your own safety), then come on up and enjoy the show.

Where we lived at Antoine and Vets Memorial can't hold a candle to the sheer amount of action down here. Independence Heights certainly is on the move...about a mile to three miles northward. There isn't a developer, builder, or realtor alive that will ever tell a potential Independence Heights area buyer that, but I certainly will. It sure as hell isn't the rosy picture some people are trying to make it out to be, and it definitely isn't the same quiet little pocket neighborhood my wife and I moved out of in 1999. I haven't even mentioned what is all is going down between North Main and Airline, directly to the east of Booker T., but Lord knows, that'd take up an entire page in and of itself.

$350k, huh? Really? Because mine just appraised at $83k, and if you're going to buy in Studewood and be that up close and personal with all of the festivities, ya might as well just set up shop right in the heart of it and save a couple hundred thousand. 

You can even be my next door neighbor, as that one's up for sale right now. Asking price: $78,500.

But, hey, it's not all bad. Yale is brand new, with 4 lanes up here now, and the #40 will take you clear to Hobby Airport without a transfer, for all the transportation fans around here.

Good luck with those new purchases, gentlemen.

 

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Near Northside is going to get the next round of significant gentrification.  Independence Heights is geographically a logical next step for gentrification as the Greater Heights is getting closer to being fully built out, but the recent oil crunch is going to add another 5 years onto the already 5-10 years it will take before the area gets past the initial pioneering days.  Near Northside has a lot more going for it.  The light rail, White Oak performance venue and some redevelopment at Hardy Yards is going to give that area some decent momentum.  By contrast, there really isn't anything going on in Independence Heights.  I drove through the neighborhood a few months ago to look at the progress on the demos for the new high school.  I saw a pack of wild dogs chasing a dog that had a freshly caught cat in its mouth.  I am sure it was quite a scene when they all had their feast and left a nice cat carcass behind.

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Poor cat! I know that pack of dogs...or at least one just like it. You called it correctly, s3mh. The couple of blocks north of Booker T. has plenty of work going on, and there is a smattering of new construction in the neighborhood, here and there. Nowhere near the levels of Sunset Heights though, and it won't be either. You believe there will be a 5-10 year delay? I'm 49, and don't believe I'll see Studewood cleaned up in my lifetime. That's just the reality of it. People can speculate all they want, about it being ready to turn the corner. Drive up here around 11pm or after, and anyone can see firsthand that I am not exaggerating on the current elements running the streets in the least bit.

It's quite all right with me, though. I grew up in Sunset Heights back in the 70s & 80s, right down the street from the Peppermint Lounge. This feels like home, much more so than Camden Park ever did. I guess after all these years there's still a little riff-raff left in me, as well. The cherry on top is that my taxes on this house are next to nothing annually. Just over $1,000 last year, and barely. 

I couldn't even imagine living in a place where someone else can control the property I own, and tell me what I can and can't do with it. I can assure you, an HOA would hate me instantly. The most we have here is a civic club, and that's nothing more than a handful of people with nothing better to do than to gossip with one another over a glass of punch and a couple of cookies on a Thursday night. 

I know I'm coming off as all doom and gloom, and trust me, I'd love to see this gentrification of Studewood come to pass, Yale Village & Pecan Shadows turned into a pile of rubble, and the Gulf station and strip center across from Barkwood replaced with something that doesn't draw the hooligans out of the woodwork, but it's not happening as some would have you to believe. If it was, there'd be developers up here doing exactly what they did to my grandmother back in the 90's for her house on 26th. Hounding me consistently about selling out.

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  • 2 weeks later...

You guys kill me.  This is the same talk that I heard about Brooksmith when I invested there.  There was money to be made there, there's money to be made in Independence Heights and S3mh you're right Near Northside and Fifth Ward is currently being gentrified also that's why I'm investing there also.  It only takes a little vision. 

Edited by stuu67
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4 hours ago, stuu67 said:

You guys kill me.  This is the same talk that I heard about Brooksmith when I invested there.  There was money to be made there, there's money to be made in Independence Heights and S3mh you're right Near Northside and Fifth Ward is currently being gentrified also that's why I'm investing there also.  It only takes a little vision. 

Well sure there's money to be made. There's a sucker born every minute, stuu, and I'm sure you'll find your fair share. I'm just here to provide the reality of the situation that is Independence Heights. By all means, if you find enough dopes to rope, go right on ahead.

But for those of you who DO get suckered into the hyperbole, don't say that the purpledevil didn't warn you. Not everyone has the cajones to live in this area, Good luck...and make sure to keep it loaded and within reach. ;)

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  • 1 year later...
  • 1 year later...
13 hours ago, stuu67 said:

Independence Heights is Booming.  Where’s all my doubters at😂😂😂

 

Right here.  IH is right about where I thought it would be about five years later.  Some momentum gaining in the townhome/patio home market with most units selling in the $250-325k range.  Some supply and demand pulling against each other as property owners are cashing out and clearing lots to sell.  4k sq ft lots that were going for $40-60k are now going for $60-80k.  Larger lots that can be divided up are getting a bit more per sq ft.  IH is about where Cottage Grove was about 15-20 years ago.  A fair amount of cheap townhomes going up and not much else.

 

i do know someone who bought a townhome in IH.  She could only afford @$275k and wanted to stay near downtown and GOOF.  IH is a good value because you get new construction about as cheap as anywhere in the area.  But the neighborhood still has a long way to go.  The tear down activity has definitely helped clear out a lot of the crackheads, but flurf still goes down in the neighborhood every now and then.  And there are still lots of stray dogs running around.  I expect that development will continue on about the same pace for the next five years.   People have a lot of choices for close in gentrifying neighborhoods. 3rd and 5th wards are about in the same position as IH.  Industrial areas of GOOF are getting converted to multifamily and higher end townhomes.  So, the fact that Cottage Grove, Shady Acres and other Greater Heights favorites for townhome development are filling up doesn't mean that IH is going to get any better than it currently is.  

 

Near northside is much farther along with renovated bungalows getting $400k+.  Your dollar would have gone further had you bought in the near northside 5 years ago.  

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  • 2 months later...
12 hours ago, CrockpotandGravel said:

I don't know if this is the right thread for this (and if it is not, mods, please move it).

The Leader wrote an article last week on the gentrification of Independence Heights and the anxiety for longtime residents.

https://theleadernews.com/gentrification-causing-tension-in-independence-heights/

In case anyone was interested in a visual

Screenshot-20190606-175249-Maps.jpg

Edited by Visitor
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  • 2 years later...
On 4/17/2013 at 10:05 PM, gnu said:

I did a little bit of research:

Henry Stude owned the land where Studewood street is today.  I don't believe he ever owned the land where Independence Heights is.

I get the impression that Stude's Woods were somewhere (or all) along present-day Studewood south of Sunset Heights.

However, I did run across the fact that the streetcar line (and later bus route #44) that served Independence Heights was called the Studewood.

The streetcar turned around at 30th and N.Main.  Maybe the residents back then would say they lived at the end of the Studewood line and they eventually just started calling where they were going Studewood.  And since there was no real "Stude's Woods" anymore (after the subdivisions filled in)......Just a thought.

 

Hope this helps.

 

EDIT:  Not sure when Metro (or its forerunner) changed the 44 from Studewood to Acres Homes.

That is the best explanation so far. Thank you.

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On 4/17/2013 at 10:28 PM, sinister1 said:

Hi gun,

 

Here is a copy of the bus route for the 44 Acres Homes(http://www.ridemetro.org/SchedulesMaps/Pdfs/044-acres.pdf). I looks like it only comes near the Independence Heights area when it comes down Crosstimbers but it never comes directly through the neighborhood like the 66 Yale does. Do you happen to have a copy of the old Street Cart route by any chance so we could compare?

 

I think you are really on to something here. Thanks.

I found an old 1927 copy of the Houston Electric Company streetcar map. It shows streetcar route number 4 as the Studewood.  It shows it going past 27th Street then truing back around on what looks like 29th or 30th Street. I'm guessing if you were going to Independence Heights or Acres Homes in those times that was the only route..

Houston streetcar trolley map 1927.PNG

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On 7/14/2021 at 5:30 PM, sinister1 said:

I found an old 1927 copy of the Houston Electric Company streetcar map. It shows streetcar route number 4 as the Studewood.  It shows it going past 27th Street then truing back around on what looks like 29th or 30th Street. I'm guessing if you were going to Independence Heights or Acres Homes in those times that was the only route..

Houston streetcar trolley map 1927.PNG

This image is very depressing. We had a great system to expand on. If we had built smarter we would have been much denser, prob closer to a Chicago in size with plenty of room to expand our transit over time. 

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On 7/15/2021 at 9:05 PM, j_cuevas713 said:

This image is very depressing. We had a great system to expand on. If we had built smarter we would have been much denser, prob closer to a Chicago in size with plenty of room to expand our transit over time. 

Except where they run on dedicated ROW (and sometimes even when they do) early 20th century streetcars were actually pretty slow. During peak hours, the St Charles streetcar in New Orleans isn't appreciably faster than a brisk walker, and definitely slower than a bicycle.

What really limited Houston's density were, in no particular order:

  • The 20th century sewer moratorium, which effectively limited construction inside the loop to 4-plexes during large parts of the high-growth post-war period.
  • Deed restrictions limited certain areas to single-family residential
  • The 5000 sf minimum lot size, which was only relaxed in the 1980s.
  • Chapter 42, which established minimum front and side setbacks and other density-limiting regulations (and established the strip center as the dominant commercial development pattern)
  • Minimum parking requirements (which basically require a standalone restaurant to dedicate 75% of its land area to parking)

 

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  • 4 months later...

After seven years, I think I was pretty much spot on.  I said IH was 5-10 years away from gaining the critical mass needed to really see it turn around.  Right now, development in IH is still pretty spotty with mostly entry level townhomes in the $300s popping up on random lots.  Lot values are up but appreciation is not as good as the near northside/Lindale.  

I have a friend who bought a townhome over by Tulane in IH about 4 years ago.  The neighborhood is still pretty rough.  A lot of drugs and gang activity is still going on even as new construction goes up with doorbell cameras pointing at the street.  Police sirens and gun shots are still a weekly occurrence. 

IH is right now about where Cottage Grove and Shady Acres were in the early 2000s.  The pace of development is picking up but there is still a long way to go before it attracts anyone other than urban pioneers who are willing to put up with the crime, stray dogs, etc. in exchange for a close in neighborhood and an affordable townhome.  

I am still much more bullish on the near northside and Lindale.  They are getting some restaurants, bars and coffee shops (Canary Cafe, Trash Panda, Monkey's Tail, Rabbits Got the Gun, Local Brewing, etc.).  Bellissimo moved to IH.  But that is really it for IH.  

 

https://www.theleadernews.com/community/woman-charged-in-fatal-independence-heights-shooting/article_f681b16c-10cf-11ec-8d9e-0b98b106c0e8.html

 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/crime/article/Man-charged-in-Independence-Heights-shooting-that-16115473.php

https://abcnews.go.com/US/deputy-fatally-shot-injured-ambush-houston-nightclub-police/story?id=80619451

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